A Thought Excercise

[FantasyXY]

I am currently working on a story where a fair amount of the story is told through the main character's thoughts. It's almost as if the character is telling the story; but it isn't first person, (e.g. Like a typical private detective story is told).

I am wondering if any Lit authors out there have written a thought heavy story, and what sort of paragraph and punctuation structures were used to show that this is what the character is thinking.

As it stands now my story is filled with 'he thought', 'thinks to himself' and 'was thinking' sorts of lines to the point of being an annoying distraction.

I've read nearly all of the writers help articles here on Lit and searched other sites for information. I haven't found anything that helps.

Several years ago I read a Robert Heinlein novel that had all of the stuff going on in the main characters' head in a different font. (This sci-fi story had two people combined into one brain so thoughts were more like dialog, which is different than what I am writing)

In that novel it took me several chapters for my brain to really catch on and automatically take the dialog text as thought. I'm not sure my story will have that kind of length, and the character is just thinking to himself, so doing the font/dialog thing my not work. I feel it would risk losing most of the Lit readers as well.

Any ideas on how to write a story through someone's thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[slyc_willie]

A lot of writers use italics to represent thought and tack on the "thought tags" as appropriate.

I wonder if she's wearing anything under that dress, he thought. It'd be fun to find out.

Readers catch on pretty easily that sections of text represented this way indicate a character's thoughts, to the point where you can write them that way without always having to tell the reader it's a character's thought.

 

[StrangeLife]

One device you have access to with this particular style of writing is "the unrealible narrator " or "the biased narrator."

This can be especially powerful if your protagonist is bad or flawed....

 

[sr71plt]

Putting thoughts in italics is no longer an option given by the U.S. style authority (the Chicago Manual of Style), but some publishers are still using them--and it was an authorized style back in the days of the Heinlein books.

I'd have to see what you mean about presenting the story in the protagonist's thoughts in the third person, though. Don't really see that as possible. Wouldn't the protagonist's thoughts ipso facto be from the protagonist's perspective? Would have to see what you mean.

 

[VenusButterflies]

A lot of writers use italics to represent thought and tack on the "thought tags" as appropriate.

I wonder if she's wearing anything under that dress, he thought. It'd be fun to find out.

Readers catch on pretty easily that sections of text represented this way indicate a character's thoughts, to the point where you can write them that way without always having to tell the reader it's a character's thought.

Yeah. I always use italics to represent thoughts, and don't always qualify with a "he thought/she thought." IMO italics for thoughts are the best way to go.

Or, you can do what Mark Z. Danielewski did in House of Leaves and use footnotes -- and a different font -- for that character's thoughts.

 

[slyc_willie]

Putting thoughts in italics is no longer an option given by the U.S. style authority (the Chicago Manual of Style), but some publishers are still using them--and it was an authorized style back in the days of the Heinlein books.

When it comes to Lit stories, I don't think whether italics are accepted as thought or not really matters. When it comes to publishing, some places can be picky about it. Thankfully, my publisher is pretty open-minded.

 

[slyc_willie]

Yeah. I always use italics to represent thoughts, and don't always qualify with a "he thought/she thought." IMO italics for thoughts are the best way to go.

Or, you can do what Mark Z. Danielewski did in House of Leaves and use footnotes -- and a different font -- for that character's thoughts.

I think that would be difficult to do in a Lit story, where all text is rendered in the same font and size.

 

[sr71plt]

When it comes to Lit stories, I don't think whether italics are accepted as thought or not really matters. When it comes to publishing, some places can be picky about it. Thankfully, my publisher is pretty open-minded.

I agree. That's why I've always hedged when pointing to the authority in U.S. style on this. I've always preferred italics for thoughts myself. I always write to the industry standards, though.

 

[slyc_willie]

I wonder what Cormac McArthy would say if he was forced to write to "industry standards."

 

[VenusButterflies]

I think that would be difficult to do in a Lit story, where all text is rendered in the same font and size.

Yes, unfortunately it would be quite difficult.

Lit's strict limits annoy me sometimes. It took me forever to get used to even double space between paragraphs/dialogue. But it's free, so we take what we can get. . . . Or give what we can take. . . . Or something like that.

 

[sr71plt]

I wonder what Cormac McArthy would say if he was forced to write to "industry standards."

I don't know that he isn't, not having written anything by him. Industry standards have wriggle room--and publishers exercise the right on what to accept and what not to.

I wonder how closely he wrote to the standards he was given and how much individuality he demanded before he was racking up best-sellers. I've seen a lot of basically good "it's all about me" writers bite the dust before they even got beyond the agent stage. It isn't an industry where ones trying to sell themselves do themselves well by getting big headed too early in the game.

 

[slyc_willie]

I don't know that he isn't, not having written anything by him. Industry standards have wriggle room--and publishers exercise the right on what to accept and what not to.

I wonder how closely he wrote to the standards he was given and how much individuality he demanded before he was racking up best-sellers. I've seen a lot of basically good "it's all about me" writers bite the dust before they even got beyond the agent stage. It isn't an industry where ones trying to sell themselves do themselves well by getting big headed too early in the game.

McArthy is known for not using quotation marks to indicate dialogue. He just writes it out like the rest of the text (or at least has in the two works of his that I've read). That's the most obvious example of his bending/breaking the rules I can think of.

I think he benefited from having Albert Erskine (who had previously worked with William Faulkner) as his editor. That association probably allowed him to get away with some of his literary no-nos. That, and once his first novel was published he became the publishing world's darling. He writes extremely well, if unconventionally.

 

[FantasyXY]

I like the idea of using italicized text to show thought. It seems easy and efficient. I would of course be marking it early and often with "he thinks to himself" type wording, then eventually leaving it out as the readers should have caught on.

My best guess is that the story I am working on will only be published on Lit. I'm an engineer for christ's sake. How good of a story could could come out of nerd like me in the first place!

Will Lit post my story with the italicized "thought text" in tact?

 

[sr71plt]

McArthy is known for not using quotation marks to indicate dialogue. He just writes it out like the rest of the text (or at least has in the two works of his that I've read). That's the most obvious example of his bending/breaking the rules I can think of.

If that's what he does, he isn't breaking the CMS guidance, he's following it. That's one of two options the CMS gives as permitted. Either straight roman, with it being made clear it's a thought or put it in double quotes. Those are the CMS options now.

 

[sr71plt]

Will Lit post my story with the italicized "thought text" in tact?

If you use the cut and paste into the submissions box submissions method, you'll have to manually code the italics: <I> in front of the phrase, </I> behind it. I don't know what you have to do if you submit otherwise.

 

[walkerlong]

You can also describe thoughts from the third person point of view, like you describe other story events.

She wondered if the cock would even fit. Was it going to hurt? Did she care? No, she realized, she did not care.

 

[Handley_Page]

Personally, I like the "italic" font for thought.

 

[slyc_willie]

If that's what he does, he isn't breaking the CMS guidance, he's following it. That's one of two options the CMS gives as permitted. Either straight roman, with it being made clear it's a thought or put it in double quotes. Those are the CMS options now.

Well, ya learn something new every day.

 

[callmeismael]

I don't believe you need to use any such method to denote thoughts. If it's well written and you're consistent in the perspective, it's clear that any non-objective statement comes from your protagonist. Consider the following.

He looked at the woman. "She was going to be trouble," he thought.

He looked at the woman. She was going to be trouble.

He looked at the woman. She was going to be trouble.

To me, the italics don't add anything and are just going to get in the way. It's clear that the observation is his opinion, and not some narrator's opinion. This approach is best used as a 'limited, subjective third-person narrator', subjective (as opposed to objective) in that it goes into a character's thoughts and opinions, but limited (as opposed to omniscient) in that it's limited to what one character thinks and knows. If a detective story isn't first-person, then it's usually this style (although multiple-viewpoint is also used in some cases).

Try this link, and pay particular attention to what it says about viewpoint character:
http://www.novel-writing-help.com/third-person-narrative.html

 

[slyc_willie]

I don't believe you need to use any such method to denote thoughts. If it's well written and you're consistent in the perspective, it's clear that any non-objective statement comes from your protagonist. Consider the following.

He looked at the woman. "She was going to be trouble," he thought.

He looked at the woman. She was going to be trouble.

He looked at the woman. She was going to be trouble.

To me, the italics don't add anything and are just going to get in the way. It's clear that the observation is his opinion, and not some narrator's opinion. This approach is best used as a 'limited, subjective third-person narrator', subjective (as opposed to objective) in that it goes into a character's thoughts and opinions, but limited (as opposed to omniscient) in that it's limited to what one character thinks and knows. If a detective story isn't first-person, then it's usually this style (although multiple-viewpoint is also used in some cases).

Try this link, and pay particular attention to what it says about viewpoint character:
http://www.novel-writing-help.com/third-person-narrative.html

Well, that's interesting information, but it's only one person's perspective. You will, of course, write the way you want, as will the rest of us.

But I do find it interesting that the website makes use of italics in order to make part of the text stand out. That's what those of us who use italics for thought dialogue do: to make it stand out. It tells the reader that there is something different about that particular part of the text, that it is not necessarily connected to the rest of the text around it.

 

[sr71plt]

Not to stand out really--to differentiate it from spoken dialogue. It's the "stand out" nature of it that's getting it nixed by authorities. They say "stand out" is less readable, especially in large chunks. They've already gotten rid of bold. Now they're working on getting rid of italics and arabic numbers.

 

[slyc_willie]

Not to stand out really--to differentiate it from spoken dialogue. It's the "stand out" nature of it that's getting it nixed by authorities. They say "stand out" is less readable, especially in large chunks. They've already gotten rid of bold. Now they're working on getting rid of italics and arabic numbers.

And I would disagree, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Why the push to do away with anything that "stands out?"

 

[sr71plt]

And I would disagree, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Why the push to do away with anything that "stands out?"

Presumably "standing out" is a distraction from the flow of following the content--so, disadvantageous for reader and author alike.

 

[Weird Harold]

As it stands now my story is filled with 'he thought', 'thinks to himself' and 'was thinking' sorts of lines to the point of being an annoying distraction.

A pet peeve: Unless your character is is a projective telepath, "thinks to himself" is redundant; he can't possibly think to anyone but himself.

There are two kinds of "thought" to be considered, and they have traditionally been separated by using Italics or Quotes for direct thought or "Internal Dialogue."

Example:

He thought he probably should hide.

Vs

He thought, I should probably hide

If your narration is of the former variety, there's nothing special you need to do. It probably isn't necessary to even tag most instances as thoughts.

If your narration is of the latter sort, treat it as you would external dialogue with either italics or nothing except the comma to indicate dialogue.

Beware of long blocks of italics, as they can be hard to read and lose whatever emphasis they might have with overuse. As with any question about writing, the needs of the story are paramount; use as much or as little italics as best supports your intentions for the story.

 

[sr71plt]

If you have both short phrases and long block of thought, then you certainly don't want to use italics if you're not going to use them for the long blocks. You don't want to use different treatments for thought in the same work.