A successful story

[Ray Dario]

Hi guys and gals,

I was just checking out my current story voting scores and it occured to me that I would like to know how other authors view these scores.

What I mean is. Do you look at the scores and judge the "success" of the story this way? If so what target score do you look for to say a story was "successful"?

Looking at my stories, some of the ones I think are my best work are rated significantly lower than others I think are not as good. On the other hand the ones I now think suck apparently have a strong reader aggreement factor.

So if you look at voting scores to judge a story at what level do you say the story "sucks" and at what level do you say the story is "great"?

Or do none of you pay any attention to the voting scores?

Ray

 

[christo]

When I post a story I always hope it'll get a 4.5. That's the score you need to get that little H. And if you double 4.5 you get 9, or 90%, and that's good enough to get an A on your report card. That being said, I've only got 2 stories that high. I have a few that are around 4.45, but they just haven't edged up to 4.5, to my disappointment.

Conversely, I hate to see a story get votes below a 4.00. A 4 vote is a good vote, but you'd hope to get more 5's than 3's from people to push you above the 4. I have one story that's been at like 3.95 for a month and it's not getting many votes, so it just sits there. Didn't think it was too bad, either.

There of course have been many threads about voting totals. Me, I like getting votes, I like getting feedback, I like knowing people are reading stuff I wrote. It's all part of the enjoyment I get, and I hope I give some too.

 

[cymbidia]

Ray, you *know* what my stories are like. They're intense and disturbing and dark and often perceived as violent. They're definitely not mainstream erotica. If i used votes and/or voting scores as an indicator of my worthiness as a writer, or as an indicator of anything about my stories, then i'd just have to quit writing. Now.

In truth, there's *always* going to be more people that don't like my stuff than people who get it and understand what i'm saying when i write about that sick freako stuff in my stories.

So, in answer to your question, i listen to the people whose opinions i trust and care about in order to help me gauge the relative merit of my work. The votes don't mean much to me anymore, especially not since i've been targeted a couple times for reasons totally unrelated to my skills (or lack thereof) as a writer and watched *everything* i've written get 1'ed.

 

[nitengale]

Ray...

I do not even look at the scores anymore. I go with the feedback I get from my readers to push me in the direction of writing more. If my story touches at least one person, then I would say it has been a success.

I also have found that the stories I have worked the hardest on, and feel deserve a higher mark, get read less, and do the worst at the score table. With that in mind, I have no interest in the voting or scores here.

Winning a writing contest at Literotica is not a goal I hold dear to my heart.

 

[CreamyLady]

Personally the little "E" means more to me than scores. So do the emails and feedback that very kind readers send me.

The most important thing, of course, is the feeling of "YES!" when I finish a really good story. That, really, is why I write.

Given all the unpleasantness and nerve-storms regarding the voting and scores, I think it's better to just ignore them.

 

[Weird Harold]

I don't take the scores too seriously. Being "best of Breed" in one category, or "best of show" is a real ego boost, but those are (usually) ephemeral honors. New stories pass you by and/or your story gets voted down for whatever reason.

I think I'm more disappointed that my stories don't move more people to vote on them than the fact that those who vote don't all give me fives. I know I feel more jealousy over stories with large vote totals than I do over stories with high scores.

If my story doesn't move people to vote, good or bad, I feel like I haven't been able to stir the readers' emotions enough.

 

[EuropaSpins]

I only have three stories currently up so consider my lack of knowledge when you read this. I think that after having what I believed was great success with the first one, I drove myself crazy with the second. And it was meant to be more tongue in cheek. (Note To Authors - Don't Piss Off The Men!) So while I liked BOTH of the first two, the general populace really enjoyed the first one. *shrug* My sense of humor was lost in the second.

Anyway, don't make yourself crazy. There is always someone out there who will give you a '1' because you named your hero/victim/sl*ut after their grandma.

Cheers ~
Europa

 

[p_p_man]

Ray

There're too many variables to consider the scoring system as a measure of a story's worth. I go with the e-mails and if I get between 15-20 per story I consider that good going.

 

[aldenbradley]

Personally, I'm consumed by the need to get high scores. They indicate both the quality of writing and stroke-value of a story. I write only to get those little marks that mean my work is appreciated.

But, seriously, there is a fallacy in the scoring process, and it is not limited to this site. At another site where I post I can get a vote-by-vote read-out of the scoring. On a ten point scale, I can have several tens, many nine, a few eights, and two ones. Now, to me, that indicates that somebody just doesn't like my stuff, my genre, my topics or possibly thinks that Aces are high! Without that all important feedback, it's tough to know what others think. I tend to acgree with the concept of relying on the valued opinions of folks I trust.

Still, it sure would be nice to get a couple of those little "H"s.

Alden Bradley

 

[Ray Dario]

Email Replys

P_P_Man,

15 to 20 emails? Damn!!! I usually only get four of five, except for a couple of stories that really freaked people out and got me a whole buttload of hate mail.

My typical email response goes something like this:

"Dude! you story rocked! Keep up the writing"

or

"Fuck you shit head, I hope you die and rot in the gutter for writing that shit! I'm going back and voting 1's on all your shit cause I think you're a prick!"

In this I'm not counting the great feedback I got from the feedback circle people. I really enjoyed that before it kind of melted away. BTW from that circle I have found several new friends and people who have given me very wonderful feedback on my stories and that has made a huge difference in how I feel about my writing.

So what kind of feedback do y'all other writers get from your stories? I would love to know so that I can compare what I'm getting to what others get.

Ray

 

[p_p_man]

Ray

I did say "if I get between 15-20 e-mails I would consider that good going". I rarely do and then it's over a period of time. I usually pop into my feedback folder every now and then to count up the response.

My usual feedback total over, say a month, runs to 8-10.

I like receiving e-mail feedback from authors. They pull no punches, give you an honest opinion, and quite often write very in-depth critiques of your work. Some non-authors do as well of course but the majority of e-mails I get from readers are, as you say, of the "Great", "Fantastic", "Load of crap" variety.

 

[Guest]

I have three stories posted on this site. I think they're all good in their own ways, and I frankly don't care about top lists or voting. I would love to get more feedback, though. I've had three responses, and one of them was so muddled and incoherent that I couldn't even decipher what the hell they were talking about.

I suppose all I want is to share my stories with as many people as possible. I see some that get hits of over 500! My highest is 37. It seems as though my stories are getting lost in the mix. I wouldn't mind if I got some negative feedback among the more positive responses, because I'm very comfrotable with my writing, and I don't do it *just* for other people. At least if someone hated my stories it would be a reaction of some kind.

You can't please everyone. I would just like to at least reach a few more people.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Email Replys

So what kind of feedback do y'all other writers get from your stories? I would love to know so that I can compare what I'm getting to what others get.

p_p_man, like Ray, i'm *amazed* (and WAY envious http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/happy/11zwinky.gif) over your volumn of feedback. I'd love to hear from 8-10 readers a month. 'Course, i guess one has to *have* 8-10 readers a month to get that kinda feedback, hmmm? With my little niche-bound stories, the few people that read any of them either like and "get" what i'm saying, or they think it's total freaky waste-of-time garbage. I have to guess on that last cuz i don't usually hear from those people; they simply downvote me without any comment.

Anyway, Ray, here's a little sampling of my recent feedback:
#1 "I took it upon myself to read your stories even though I have never read BDSM before. I have to say...the content was alot different then I am used too. I mean, hell, I\'m a romance writer, *LOL* So, need I say more? Your write incredibly well cymbidia and I do hope you continue to share your work with Literotica. Even though I myself, am not really into the rougher stuff, I know many on this site are. You give them what they need, what they crave...

Piercings was written incredibly well. For someone like me that only has ear piercings, this was a real eye opener. God, I could almost feel her pain. It was very intense and your descriptives were powerful."


#2 "This message contains feedback for: cymbidia
About the submission: Pierced
Comments:
BDSM has not been a chosen genre of mine, but your strong, powerfully erotic story has incited my curiousity. Great job!"


#3 "This message contains feedback for: cymbidia
About the submission: Just Desserts
This feedback was sent by: Anonymous
Comments:
Just so you know, \"Just Desserts\" made me cry. It\'s wonderful."


#4 "This message contains feedback for: cymbidia
About the submission: Hooded
Comments:
I'm going to have to take a rest from the overload that you are placing on my mind. I may not ever be able to finish reading your stuff."


#5 "This message contains feedback for: cymbidia
About the submission: Pierced
This feedback was sent by: Anonymous
Comments:
You're a fucking lunatic. Nobody does shit like to get off on and nobody wants to read about it neither. It's not hot its just sick."


So, Ray, you can see that my feedback runs from very complimentary to, umm, pretty unkind. Most people give me thier names. Some do not. Such is their choice.

Is this something like what yours looks like?

 

[Ray Dario]

cym,

It does look like you get a much more "Highbrow" crowd of readers than I do. Fully half of my feedback is obviously written by functional illiterates. Half of what is left (1/4 total feedback) is a lot like you get I treasure this feedback, good and bad. The other 1/4 is split between excellent detailed comments on my work (which is so wonderful) and some ... well ... interesting discussions on how the best method of ending my existance would be.

I just got an email based on this thread and possibly they have answered the eternal "Why" question. They say and I quote:

"Ray, Maybe the reason you see the kind of feedback you are getting is because you right such controversial stories. You make grand bold statements decrying women and insulting people with a kind of flippant absurdity that just begs for condemnation. Take your story Mentor. In there the character states that 'All women are either sluts, doms, or bitches'

Didn't you think that would offend people? Are you a complete moron?

Also looking at 'Wet Nurse'. You treat all Mexicans as immoral barbaric criminals and then you have the temerity to complain when people are harsh to you in email. Grow up. If you write stories like this then expect to be critisized."

This particular email continued but I think you can see it's tone.

I guess I never realized how seriously people take my stories. I certainly never meant to disrespect women or hispanics or any other race or group.

Do you guys think I insult people with my writing? Am I a complete moron?

Ray

 

[cymbidia]

I guess I never realized how seriously people take my stories. I certainly never meant to disrespect women or hispanics or any other race or group.

Do you guys think I insult people with my writing? Am I a complete moron?

Ray

I love your writing Ray, but you already know that. I've come to the conclusion that people read into our stuff what they want and need to see. If the bones of the story aren't quite right for every reader (and how can they be?), they we're going to get the occasional crackpot who gets riled over imagined wrongs in our otherwise charming stories. Mostly, people will simply go to the next story if ours isn't doing it for them right? However, there's always gonna be a few with a chip on their shoulder about one issue or another, and then we'll hear about it.

For what it's worth, i don't think you disrespect any group in your writing, Ray. Surely you would have heard that particular comment before now, too, if there was any universal merit in the observation. You're not a moron. And you know it.

And about the feedback from my "highbrow" readers? I've definitely trashed a bunch of really unkind and marginally illiterate feedback just cuz i didn't want to have it in my life. There was this one anonymous email i got that went on and on and on about me being his perfect ass slave, for instance, that was downright *slimy scary*.

Do you guys keep the trashy ones? How about those from borderline illiterates? What about the ones from slimy freako's who seem to be having trouble separating a fiction story from any kind of reality. Do only women writers get *slimy scary* feedback from readers?

To sum up: i don't keep all comers with regard to feedback. Never have. You guys?

 

[cymbidia]

You get **feedback** from Board posts?

Oh! I'm being consumed with envy even as i hit these keys. I have trouble getting feedback from *stories*...

 

[p_p_man]

Cym and Ray...

Cym will probably remember the new scoring sheet that Laurel let us have a look at a couple of months ago. I think we were all surprised at the numbers of readers our stories attract.

When the new score sheet was first opened one of my stories had crept (just!) into the top figures. I had only posted the story a couple of days before and over 6500 people had read it (or at least clicked onto it).

Some of the top stories were attracting well over five figure readerships.

Don't forget this site gets about 170,000 visitors a day and at least some of them e-mail their opinions. In fact on those figures our e-mail accounts should be bulging to breaking point.

PS to Laurel: If you're reading this what has happened to the scoring by readers thingy?

 

[Ray Dario]

cym,

Yes I do keep every single feedback, no matter how illiterate or unkind it is and I try to respond to each one that includes an email address.

Yes, I have recieved a slimy feedback. One woman, or at least I assume it was a woman, offered to marry me. Actually begged me to abuse her. She said she could only achieve emotional balance when being abused. I kept the email and even responded to her trying to politely tell her that I was not interested in a relationship starting over the internet at this time. I hope I was kind enough to her but she has never written back to me.

I hope she finds what she is looking for.

Ray

 

[Guest]

Actually, I would like to ammend what I said. Having read the last few comments about keeping feedback, I've realised that I don't care that much about feedback at all. In fact, when I looked at the figures for my last story, I saw that 20 people had seen it in just 24 hours, and I felt a little buzz of excitement just at knowing that all those people had read my story. Whether they contact me or not doesn't really matter.

I think knowing that somewhere out there are complete strangers reading my words is why I do it. It'll be the same when I finally get published as a novelist. I'll want as many people in the world to read my books as possible, but I won't really care if I get fan mail; though I must admit, it's great to get compliments. But in the end, knowing they've read it is enough, whether they loved it or not.

 

[Weird Harold]

when I looked at the figures for my last story, I saw that 20 people had seen it in just 24 hours, and I felt a little buzz of excitement just at knowing that all those people had read my story.

Actually, that is 20 people who VOTED on your story. The number of people who read your story was probably above 2000, and at least twice that looked at it and decided not to read it.

Laurel and Manu haven't perfected the views counter and ranking, but that's in the works.

 

[cymbidia]

Cym will probably remember the new scoring sheet that Laurel let us have a look at a couple of months ago. I think we were all surprised at the numbers of readers our stories attract.

I'd totally forgotten about that, p_p_man! It *was* a huge eye-opener, wasn't it? There are gazillions of people that come sifting (rummaging, sliming, squeaking, leaking: you pick the adjective) through Lit on a daily basis.

Yeh. Yeh!
That handy-dandy little feature is going to be *cool*.

Yes I do keep every single feedback, no matter how illiterate or unkind it is and I try to respond to each one that includes an email address.

You're a better man than i am, Ray. http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/happy/11zwinky.gif

I answer everything that i can answer, too (except the scary ones, which i get rid of immediately). Then, if it's illiterate, i get rid of it. If i hate what it says, i (do a quick self-assessment for its total relative-truth content and then i) get rid of it. If i'm feeling insecure and it adds to my insecurity, i get rid of it. If i've got PMS, i sometimes rage to myself that nothing in the whole damn file is worth keeping and then i get rid of the whole damn file.

You see a pattern here? I sometimes *wish* i'd kept it all but i haven't and it's not my way. I'll just stand off to the side over here with my few feedback keepers and gasp in admiration and envy at the dozens of emails Those Who Keep Everything have amassed. ~g~

Actually, I would like to ammend what I said. Having read the last few comments about keeping feedback, I've realised that I don't care that much about feedback at all.

That may well be, Mark, but if you do decide that you want it, here's the Lit way to go about getting it:

1. Go to the Story & Poetry Feedback and/or the Story Discussion Circle forums here at Lit.
2. Post a request for people to read and critique "My New Story" which is located here: http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=20123 (Notice how i included both the name of the story and the link?)
3. Get busy reading and offering feedback to other Lit writers. (People tend to respond to your stuff if you respond to their stuff. Human nature.)

Easy, hmmm?

Laurel and Manu haven't perfected the views counter and ranking, but that's in the works.

You always have the inside scoop on the most definitively certain info, WH. From God's lips to your ears...

 

[nasty]

If I look at my stories, I like the ones close or over 4. It's to bad I've written so many stories, but few have gotten over 4. Some have gotten in the mid to lower 3's. I don't like it when a story goes below 3. I have some horrid ones that have gotten 1 or 1.5. I admit, these stories are AWFUL!!!!! My first story got 2.09 with 35 votes. It was called "My Stay In Hollywood." I apologies to everyone that read that. The only thing I was thinking about was how I would love to have sex with Alicia Silverstone.

 

[Cockatoo]

Hate to admit this...

I know how the voting scale works. I know it's easily sabotauged, and I know that mean-spirited people will flood an author with ones, and that the vote count doesn't match the readership, and that some categories are better marketing choices than others. I know all of this.

But, I still get a thrill out of high scores, damnit. I like it when a story's score goes up and up until it eventually stabilizes... mine are usually around 4.3 something. I have yet to get a little Red H, and I pray that someday I will.

But does that stuff make a story a SUCCESS? My better judgement refuses to allow me that idea. The well-informed Green E means more to me than the fickle Red H. I also like to see a story persist- a story gets almost all its readership while it's on the "new" list, then it can fade into obscurity. But if it continues to get votes or feedback after it's off the new list, that's a mark of success, too- It's either done well enough early on that it's placed highly or well marked in the category and ranking screens, or someone found it on my author's page because they browsed to it from ANOTHER story that they liked.

But here's the real kicker: I read, keep, and reply to all of my feedback, and none of it has been bad or slimy. I got ONE who criticized my spelling, and that's it. Virtually all of the rest (something like 50 for seven stories in five months) have been very friendly "How did you read my mind? That's amazing, I feel exactly the same way! Keep it up, I'm looking forward to more from you" messages. A very special few of these folks have continued to correspond with me for months and we haven't stopped. To know that I've touched someone and made a friend, that is real success, and not just Literotica success, either. I feel like I've done my job as a writer when that happens.