A sexual journey....

[intrigued]

Freya, I hope you dont mind my quoting something you said in another thread out of context...I'm doing so because it's got me thinking, and I'd like to talk about it. With regard to finding a partner and him making you see stars, you spoke of compatibility matters, and said in part "Some people have a fixed idea of what is appropriate or not, and are unwilling to venture outside that limited focus."
With so many thoughts about unhappy, unsatisfying relationships discussed here, I wonder how this is dealt with in reality?
Be it sexual repression, sexual discovery that is in the mind yet not ventured, an unwilling parter, or a parter that will only have sex a certain way for whatever reason, how do you guys handle that? Is this approach any different than how you'd like to handle it?
My approach is this...and I apply it to every apect of my life. I am tired of just "accepting" things as they are, I try to gently push for more from myself and those that matter to me. Granted, I have all but reinvented myself in the last year so I'm on a bit of a roll, but I tell ya, theres something to it and it's very rewarding.
I'm reminded of a friend here that questioned her aversion to facials because she tied it to a unpleasant event (and when Hanns shows up to spew his filth, please just igore him?) yet she isn't happy with the fact that something has this kind of control over her and so defines her.
I replied to her that, and I quote because it goes to how my mind works and exactly what I'm trying to say...
"I'm taking this as an attempt to get through this and reconcile it for yourself, so I will tell you what I did.
First, it used to disgust me to see it. It just doesn't look pretty, theres no way around it. But after coming here, and all the healing I did before I came here, I realized that cum shots in general are quite a trigger for me, and I realized that I love that explosion, no matter where it lands.
Part of why it bothered me before was the way it looked somewhat demeaning to me, and I don't really want to get into that, its not important. What is important is that I realized I needed to dump all the associations I made to it, because its all in my head, and is a reflection of all that I attached to it.
Why allow that?
See, it is whatever you make it, whatever you allow it to be.
When done in the act of lovemaking, for me, it is WANTED. It is as natural as anything else we share.
If done in any other manner, it would be repulsive to me.
Its all in your mind, and if you don't like it, get rid of it. Otherwise, you are still being raped."

I guess what I'm saying is that I want to squeeze every drop out of life and I no longer settle for things being a certain way, period. There is no growth in that. My mind is so damn open...I don't define with regard to labels, I no longer think black and white. I want to get through to the other side, because its alot like love and giving and sharing. The more you do it, the more you are able to.

So, what I'm wodering is this...in couples in which there is little going on sexually or intimately, or in ANY manner, do you just accept that this is the way it is, or do you try to change things? Do you find another method of meeting your needs, or do you just dump your needs as if they don't really matter?
In your search for your personal best, don't you feel that your sexuality, your ability to be intimate and other issues are important?

I know, its alot to answer...so I'll be back after my next soap loaf sets up to be sliced.

Thanks very much Freya...though some probably feel like less appreciative!

 

[Trail48]

*throwing open arms* Use me you lusty wench

 

[SkyBluAngelEyes]

You two make me smile...

Now, get a room!!

 

[Trail48]

You two make me smile...

Now, get a room!!

LOL...cute! [Personal information removed] really does bring amazing things out of me. She is indeed wide open, and tender and caring. If you think you could explore the hidden away areas of your heart and not encounter problems you'd be wrong. there has to be a total trust in your partner, she has my complete trust. The results are beyond words. i'll say it again: Use me you lusty wench!

 

[Freya]

<SNIP>
Freya, I hope you dont mind my quoting something you said in another thread out of context...I'm doing so because it's got me thinking, and I'd like to talk about it. With regard to finding a partner and him making you see stars, you spoke of compatibility matters, and said in part "Some people have a fixed idea of what is appropriate or not, and are unwilling to venture outside that limited focus."

So, what I'm wodering is this...in couples in which there is little going on sexually or intimately, or in ANY manner, do you just accept that this is the way it is, or do you try to change things? Do you find another method of meeting your needs, or do you just dump your needs as if they don't really matter?
In your search for your personal best, don't you feel that your sexuality, your ability to be intimate and other issues are important?

Thanks very much Freya...though some probably feel like less appreciative!
<SNIP>

No, of course I dont mind. I actually just sent a pm to someone dealing with a lot of these issues (I'm sure I bored him silly with my babbling though).

Over the past couple of years, I've started exploring - either in my mind, or for real - things that will enhance my sexuality and make my experiences complete and fulfilling to me. So yes, if I was in a relationship, I'd want to explore all possibilities, not just settle for what we have already. I settled for years, due to not knowing any better really, and I refuse to do so anymore. Becoming a more sexual creature has opened the door for me to become more of a self satisfied woman in all areas of my life. I have more confidence, higher level of self esteem, and my personality is even changing to an extent - and I think it's partly because I started looking for more of myself sexually and in other ways. I've removed many of the blocks in my mind in regards to issues of sexual practices that are "acceptable" in society's standards, and realize to have a complete, satisfying sexual relationship, you have to throw open your doors in your mind and be willing to try new things. And this correlates to many other aspects of relationships as well, I think.

 

[Ezarc]

You two make me smile...

Now, get a room!!

I think they already have. That is what makes them so happy. Ugh How discusting.

 

[Ishmael]

Freya, I hope you dont mind my quoting something you said in another thread out of context...I'm doing so because it's got me thinking, and I'd like to talk about it.

<snip for brevity>

So, what I'm wodering is this...in couples in which there is little going on sexually or intimately, or in ANY manner, do you just accept that this is the way it is, or do you try to change things? Do you find another method of meeting your needs, or do you just dump your needs as if they don't really matter?
In your search for your personal best, don't you feel that your sexuality, your ability to be intimate and other issues are important?

I know, its alot to answer...so I'll be back after my next soap loaf sets up to be sliced.

Thanks very much Freya...though some probably feel like less appreciative!

Layers and layers of issues here.

Pushing the envelope is a good thing. As long as both are enjoying the ride. The other issue is who is pushing the envelope and is that the natural role for that person. Some are 'pushers' by nature and others like to be 'pulled'. That is a good balance. When both have the same tendencies, ie both pushers, then things can get a little dicey. A natural conflict is present. In the case of both falling into the roll of 'pullee's' you have a different situation. One party can provide the imagination for a while but eventually the 'new' will peter out.

You then get into the issues of limits and the ability to excersize imagination within those limits. And eventually there are, or will be limits.

You've opened a pandora's box here intrigued.

Ishmael

 

[SkyBluAngelEyes]

I think they already have. That is what makes them so happy. Ugh How discusting.

You make me smile too.

 

[Ezarc]

You make me smile too.

 

[intrigued]

Re: Re: A sexual journey....

No, of course I dont mind. I actually just sent a pm to someone dealing with a lot of these issues (I'm sure I bored him silly with my babbling though).

Over the past couple of years, I've started exploring - either in my mind, or for real - things that will enhance my sexuality and make my experiences complete and fulfilling to me. So yes, if I was in a relationship, I'd want to explore all possibilities, not just settle for what we have already. I settled for years, due to not knowing any better really, and I refuse to do so anymore. Becoming a more sexual creature has opened the door for me to become more of a self satisfied woman in all areas of my life. I have more confidence, higher level of self esteem, and my personality is even changing to an extent - and I think it's partly because I started looking for more of myself sexually and in other ways. I've removed many of the blocks in my mind in regards to issues of sexual practices that are "acceptable" in society's standards, and realize to have a complete, satisfying sexual relationship, you have to throw open your doors in your mind and be willing to try new things. And this correlates to many other aspects of relationships as well, I think.

Damn this slow connection and this key board that I have to beat to type a "n"!!!!

First, let me say that I'm inviting any and everyone to respond.

freya, thank you, I like the way your mind works. I was just curious because you seemed to be saying that so much of your experience would be defined by him. While that is ofcourse very important, I wondered about what happens when the needs/desires are in conflict? This is the essence of my question.

In the last year, I have changed my thinking so much so, that it actually is apparent in my appearance, in my entire demeanor. My sexuality and my heart seem to just ooze from me, and the respose from those around me is nothing short of "wow....what happened to you???" So I know exactly what you mean by having improved self esteem, more confidence, etc. Its a very beautiful thing...
Thanks lovely one...

Trail...lol, sorry, you gotta wait a little bit longer, huh??
Thank you for your comments, I'm just trying to enhace and dig a bit deeper, and I plan to for the rest of my life.

Hi SBAE! Thank you, I'm glad to give you smiles, and I hope you'll respond to the topic, too?

Ezarc...do I need to put myself and Trail in the corner?

 

[Ezarc]

Re: Re: Re: A sexual journey....

Ezarc...do I need to put myself and Trail in the corner?

Nah, just be who you are. Enjoy, that is what life is for.

 

[Trail48]

Re: Re: A sexual journey....

Layers and layers of issues here.

Pushing the envelope is a good thing. As long as both are enjoying the ride. The other issue is who is pushing the envelope and is that the natural role for that person. Some are 'pushers' by nature and others like to be 'pulled'. That is a good balance. When both have the same tendencies, ie both pushers, then things can get a little dicey. A natural conflict is present. In the case of both falling into the roll of 'pullee's' you have a different situation. One party can provide the imagination for a while but eventually the 'new' will peter out.

You then get into the issues of limits and the ability to excersize imagination within those limits. And eventually there are, or will be limits.

You've opened a pandora's box here intrigued.

Ishmael

Ishmael, your comments are intrigueing (sorry, couldn't help it ) It's hard to really articulate, but I'm a person who was "trained" from the begining of my life to do and say, and be what certain others wanted me to. Up until my late 30's i participated. At that point I rebeled, and struck out on my own. One of the worst things about being, or more correctly allowing yourself to be repressed is that when you break free it's very difficult to know what you like or don't like. Up to that point in your life someone else has "guided" your thoughts. A journey, sexual or otherwise can be simply finding out what your likes and dislikes are. I know of no other way to find out than to try things and find out from experience.

Once you are free from whatever represses you, you damn sure are not going to do anything you don't want to, no matter who's "pushing" or "pulling" A couple, or person,who has the ability to say stop, or no, runs no risk of doing something harmful, or damaging since they are in control of when it stops.

My two cents

 

[intrigued]

Re: Re: A sexual journey....

Layers and layers of issues here.

Pushing the envelope is a good thing. As long as both are enjoying the ride. The other issue is who is pushing the envelope and is that the natural role for that person. Some are 'pushers' by nature and others like to be 'pulled'. That is a good balance. When both have the same tendencies, ie both pushers, then things can get a little dicey. A natural conflict is present. In the case of both falling into the roll of 'pullee's' you have a different situation. One party can provide the imagination for a while but eventually the 'new' will peter out.

You then get into the issues of limits and the ability to excersize imagination within those limits. And eventually there are, or will be limits.

You've opened a pandora's box here intrigued.

Ishmael

Well, I hope to just push the envelope on this little pandora's box all the way through it, to the other side.

First, I do mean within the bounds of committed relationships for the most part, but I suppose that this could apply to less committed relationships as well. However, then the drive and trust are lacking, so I guess theres not much point in going there.
So, in the confines of a serious relationship, in which the couple understands eachothers needs and trusts completely, what do you see the limitations as?
Do you feel that some things should be accepted as "taboo" no matter what, or do you hope and work for more? (I am not speaking of criminal acts, compromising integrity/morals, etc...)
Do you think that when the other partner just refuses to go forward with something of importance to you that it speaks to other aspects of the relationship as well? What would you do?

 

[LukkyKnight]

In a couple, a genuine, committed couple, there can be no topics which are off limits. This applies outside of sexual things, it applies to everything. If there are things one person won't talk about there is a problem.

Now, will that problem become major? That's all situational, and depends on the two people in question.

Being willing to discuss a matter doesn't mean you are open to trying things which you find aversive or repulsive, mind you, merely that your mind is open to your partner's thoughts and questions. There's still room for saying, "No, I won't go there." so long as you will address the topic.

At the bottom of it all, open and honest communication is one of the absolutely essential ingredients to a happy couple, second perhaps only to knowing yourself well enough to be happy with who you are. From there all things are possible.

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: Re: A sexual journey....

Well, I hope to just push the envelope on this little pandora's box all the way through it, to the other side.

First, I do mean within the bounds of committed relationships for the most part, but I suppose that this could apply to less committed relationships as well. However, then the drive and trust are lacking, so I guess theres not much point in going there.
So, in the confines of a serious relationship, in which the couple understands eachothers needs and trusts completely, what do you see the limitations as?
Do you feel that some things should be accepted as "taboo" no matter what, or do you hope and work for more? (I am not speaking of criminal acts, compromising integrity/morals, etc...)
Do you think that when the other partner just refuses to go forward with something of importance to you that it speaks to other aspects of the relationship as well? What would you do?

Relationships are personal things. And I was, and have been, speaking in the context of a commited realtionship. (However, there are issues there as well. Like knowing when to commit fully in the context of where you want to go. But that's a completely different thread.)

Limits are those boundries that we impose on ourselves. And in so doing, we in a defacto way, impose these same limits on our partner. They can be simple or profound. In other words, each partnership finds their own limits. As a partnership, and as individuals. When those limits coincide, you have a near perfect union. Less than perfect is fine as well, but not nearly as satisfying. (realtionships are complex so for the sake of this thread, I'm trying to restrict my comments to those things sexual.)

A refusal to move forward, and by this I'm assuming that you mean "not even try", will leave the other partner 'unfulfilled'. That is a 'hard' limit in the relationship. It may or may not present an obstacle that cannot be overcome. But rest assured, it will come up again at some future point. If the one partner tries, and finds it not to his/her liking, then at least the disagreement isn't centered on the lack of trying. I think that this is much less of an obstacle. It really depends on the strength of the 'asker's' conviction and it's importance to them, don't you think?

Taboo?? I have mine, you have yours. They certainly should be discussed.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: Re: A sexual journey....

Ishmael, your comments are intrigueing (sorry, couldn't help it ) It's hard to really articulate, but I'm a person who was "trained" from the begining of my life to do and say, and be what certain others wanted me to. Up until my late 30's i participated. At that point I rebeled, and struck out on my own. One of the worst things about being, or more correctly allowing yourself to be repressed is that when you break free it's very difficult to know what you like or don't like. Up to that point in your life someone else has "guided" your thoughts. A journey, sexual or otherwise can be simply finding out what your likes and dislikes are. I know of no other way to find out than to try things and find out from experience.

Once you are free from whatever represses you, you damn sure are not going to do anything you don't want to, no matter who's "pushing" or "pulling" A couple, or person,who has the ability to say stop, or no, runs no risk of doing something harmful, or damaging since they are in control of when it stops.

My two cents

<edited to add content. Damn mouse>

Hmmmmmmmmm, well if you look at it from the other view.

Why shouldn't someone have the ability to say "stop"? That is their perogative as a human being with their own likes and dislikes. It's not a matter of control, other than of their own life and is that such a bad thing?

I don't know whether you are adressing the fine line between self-control and manipulation here or not. Using "stop" or "no" as a means to manitpulate should be identified and shunned at the earliest moment. It won't stop, you can't change them. Let them go manipulate someone else.

Ishmael

 

[intrigued]

In a couple, a genuine, committed couple, there can be no topics which are off limits. This applies outside of sexual things, it applies to everything. If there are things one person won't talk about there is a problem.

Now, will that problem become major? That's all situational, and depends on the two people in question.

Being willing to discuss a matter doesn't mean you are open to trying things which you find aversive or repulsive, mind you, merely that your mind is open to your partner's thoughts and questions. There's still room for saying, "No, I won't go there." so long as you will address the topic.

At the bottom of it all, open and honest communication is one of the absolutely essential ingredients to a happy couple, second perhaps only to knowing yourself well enough to be happy with who you are. From there all things are possible.

Thanks LK. I particularly agree with your last statement. One has to know themselves so well, and be committed to themselves first before they can attempt a committment to another, and all that goes with it. I am committed to keeping my mind open, reading, exploring and otherwise keeping my mind active and thirsting. It is only then that I can bring something to the table.

I have a mental game that I play with myself, though it can often be quite painful, but its useful all the same. With so many of my issues, I had to find this very safe place within in which I could play out different scenarios of "what's the worst that can happen?" By walking myself through each, I found that I had so much more strength than I ever imagined, and alot more answers than I cared to admit to. (By that I mean that sometimes its easier to sit comfortably in place, secure in your little world versus pushing yourself for more.) But the beauty of it all is that I know theres so much more out there, so much to work through, and getting there often leads to something else, and that to something else, and on and on, hence "the journey".

I've gotten off on a tangent big time. At any rate, communication is vital, and trusting that in your efforts as a couple to grow, in the end you are safe, no matter what. This often leads to a freedom and peace that makes you *want* more. Funny, huh?

 

[Trail48]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A sexual journey....

<edited to add content. Damn mouse>

Hmmmmmmmmm, well if you look at it from the other view.

Why shouldn't someone have the ability to say "stop"? That is their perogative as a human being with their own likes and dislikes. It's not a matter of control, other than of their own life and is that such a bad thing?

I don't know whether you are adressing the fine line between self-control and manipulation here or not. Using "stop" or "no" as a means to manitpulate should be identified and shunned at the earliest moment. It won't stop, you can't change them. Let them go manipulate someone else.

Ishmael

Actually I was addressing the push/pull thought you had expressed earlier. You seemed to be addressing limits, which implied manipulation, or persuasion. Both are okay till one partner hits thier limit to explore. At that point the partners stop. Either the pusher, or puller will have that right to say "stop now".

I simply could not see the "pandoras box" you mentioned

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A sexual journey....

Actually I was addressing the push/pull thought you had expressed earlier. You seemed to be addressing limits, which implied manipulation, or persuasion. Both are okay till one partner hits thier limit to explore. At that point the partners stop. Either the pusher, or puller will have that right to say "stop now".

I simply could not see the "pandoras box" you mentioned

I hear you. But it's still there.

Refering back to LK's post. It's all about knowing yourself. Taking the time to find out. This usually requires some 'alone' time. By that I don't mean becoming a hermit. But living by yourself and interacting with all sorts of people. Perhaps counseling or a "life coach". (Personally I recommend "life coaches'. They help you identify your strengths and weakness's and set goals accordingly. They are not therapists that try to change you. But sounding boards that help you change yourself.)

Persuasion is one thing Trail, manipulation is another all together. Persuasion is an open and honest discussion about what you want to do, and how you want to do it. Then perhaps negotiation on the partners part concerning a middle ground or intermediate step. Manipulation is ugly. It's the use of non-related actions to force an outcome. By it's very nature it is decietful and controling. Persuasion is a positive value, manipulation is negative.

Being a victim of manipulation (sexual) is very traumatic. It produces behavior patterns that are not only difficult to overcome, but are so ingrained in many instances that we don't even know that they're there. My ex was a manipulative woman in that respect. It took about 6 months of life coaching before I was able to even see the effects that it had on me. Wasn't pretty to look at.

Ishmael

 

[sufisaint]

Its never the act but the actors heart when acting that truly matters...anything can be beautiful if done out of love's pleasure....freeing your mind from past associations is always good..than with eyes wide open sort of speak, you can live in this very moment and see where your lovers heart is when doing anything. Is not the greatest feeling to see love reflected in some else?????

 

[Trail48]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A sexual journey....

I hear you. But it's still there.

Refering back to LK's post. It's all about knowing yourself. Taking the time to find out. This usually requires some 'alone' time. By that I don't mean becoming a hermit. But living by yourself and interacting with all sorts of people. Perhaps counseling or a "life coach". (Personally I recommend "life coaches'. They help you identify your strengths and weakness's and set goals accordingly. They are not therapists that try to change you. But sounding boards that help you change yourself.)

Persuasion is one thing Trail, manipulation is another all together. Persuasion is an open and honest discusasion about what you want to do, and how you want to do it. Then perhaps negotiation on the partners part concerning a middle ground or intermediate step. Manipulation is ugly. It's the use of non-related actions to force an outcome. By it's very nature it is decietful and controling. Persuasion is a positive value, manipulation is negative.

Being a victim of manipulation (sexual) is very traumatic. It produces behavior patterns that are not only difficult to overcome, but are so ingrained in many instances that we don't even know that they're there. My ex was a manipulative woman in that respect. It took about 6 months of life coaching before I was able to even see the effects that it had on me. Wasn't pretty to look at.

Ishmael

I agree with you.

I do feel that manipulation can only take place with a willingness (at some level) from both parties. If the one being manipulated says no more....it has to end, the manipulator has lost power.

 

[intrigued]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A sexual journey....

Relationships are personal things. And I was, and have been, speaking in the context of a commited realtionship. (However, there are issues there as well. Like knowing when to commit fully in the context of where you want to go. But that's a completely different thread.)

Limits are those boundries that we impose on ourselves. And in so doing, we in a defacto way, impose these same limits on our partner. They can be simple or profound. In other words, each partnership finds their own limits. As a partnership, and as individuals. When those limits coincide, you have a near perfect union. Less than perfect is fine as well, but not nearly as satisfying. (realtionships are complex so for the sake of this thread, I'm trying to restrict my comments to those things sexual.)

A refusal to move forward, and by this I'm assuming that you mean "not even try", will leave the other partner 'unfulfilled'. That is a 'hard' limit in the relationship. It may or may not present an obstacle that cannot be overcome. But rest assured, it will come up again at some future point. If the one partner tries, and finds it not to his/her liking, then at least the disagreement isn't centered on the lack of trying. I think that this is much less of an obstacle. It really depends on the strength of the 'asker's' conviction and it's importance to them, don't you think?

Taboo?? I have mine, you have yours. They certainly should be discussed.

Ishmael

I agree with all of this, and what I'm asking is *how* do you (in general) deal with it?
Do you feel it speaks to the quality of the relationship otherwise?
I guess I'm just seeing the tremendous benefit of trying to get through something, versus just accepting things that leave us behind walls, stagant, etc. I realize that some things need a great deal of effort, and may even be insurmoutable...what happens then?

Right now, I'm thinking of those that seek out others to fill the needs their relationship should fill....what gets them to that point, what allows them to just give up and accept "what is"? And further, are those needs really being met when its through someone else, versus their partner?

Oh, the tangents I manage to embrace.

 

[Trail48]

Its never the act but the actors heart when acting that truly matters...anything can be beautiful if done out of love's pleasure....freeing your mind from past associations is always good..than with eyes wide open sort of speak, you can live in this very moment and see where your lovers heart is when doing anything. Is not the greatest feeling to see love reflected in some else?????

Wow..exactly. This is why I keep my eyes open when we kiss and love, that reflected love empowers me.

 

[intrigued]

Its never the act but the actors heart when acting that truly matters...anything can be beautiful if done out of love's pleasure....freeing your mind from past associations is always good..than with eyes wide open sort of speak, you can live in this very moment and see where your lovers heart is when doing anything. Is not the greatest feeling to see love reflected in some else?????

Yes! Yes, dear it is.

I really like the line "anything can be beautiful if done out of love's pleasure". Wow!

 

[sufisaint]

Wow..exactly. This is why I keep my eyes open when we kiss and love, that reflected love empowers me.

Love feeds on itself...therefor it can be never ending and is a reflection of the divine..