A Serious Question (don't laugh! )

[annaswirls]

Serious question will follow the story, please be patient:

My father never throws anything away.
When a mop or broom is worn, he rescues it from the trash,
he keeps the handle.

All my life I remember this stack of broom handles laid across the exposed ceiling beams of our basement.


While planning my outdoor wedding, I realized I needed some sort of dowel rod, short pole, something to hold up the aisle markers that were to be driven into the ground and to hold hand picked wildflowers and ribbons.

My father offered up his broom handle collection.

He painted them white.
Drilled little holes in them to wire the flowers and ribbon on tight.

They were perfect.


MY QUESTION:

At what point did the broom handle stop being a broom handle?

This object that is defined by its function as a handle to a broom-- does it lose it's identity when it's function ceases?

Was it a broom handle in the basement, waiting for a new function? What was it?

Did it stop being a broom handle once it was unscrewed from the broom?

Were they broom handles pretending to be aisle markers, or by redefinition according to function, were they just plain aisle markers?

And now, they are back in the basement, waiting their next call. Are they broom handles again?

If they aren't, then what ever happened to the handles that they once were? Can you deny an object's existance by altering it's function?


You tear one page out of a book, it is a book with a missing a page.... right?

so what if the page that you rip out was the Last page in the book, is it still a book???

take a screw from the machine, and it is still a machine, right? It did not need that one little screw... non-essential....

but if the screw is the last thing holding the machine together, the screw is an essential element of the machine, which no longer exists when the screw is removed.

I think I am going to devote my writing to these issues.

I know it all has a name, semionics or something. It makes my head spin.

Anyone else worry about these things?

 

[Liar]

I'm off to school in 30 mins, so don't get me started.

Semiotics
Semantics
and most of all
Ontology

#L

 

[Tathagata]

Serious question will follow the story, please be patient:

My father never throws anything away.
When a mop or broom is worn, he rescues it from the trash,
he keeps the handle.

All my life I remember this stack of broom handles laid across the exposed ceiling beams of our basement.


While planning my outdoor wedding, I realized I needed some sort of dowel rod, short pole, something to hold up the aisle markers that were to be driven into the ground and to hold hand picked wildflowers and ribbons.

My father offered up his broom handle collection.

He painted them white.
Drilled little holes in them to wire the flowers and ribbon on tight.

They were perfect.


MY QUESTION:

At what point did the broom handle stop being a broom handle?

This object that is defined by its function as a handle to a broom-- does it lose it's identity when it's function ceases?

Was it a broom handle in the basement, waiting for a new function? What was it?

Did it stop being a broom handle once it was unscrewed from the broom?

Were they broom handles pretending to be aisle markers, or by redefinition according to function, were they just plain aisle markers?

And now, they are back in the basement, waiting their next call. Are they broom handles again?

If they aren't, then what ever happened to the handles that they once were? Can you deny an object's existance by altering it's function?


You tear one page out of a book, it is a book with a missing a page.... right?

so what if the page that you rip out was the Last page in the book, is it still a book???

take a screw from the machine, and it is still a machine, right? It did not need that one little screw... non-essential....

but if the screw is the last thing holding the machine together, the screw is an essential element of the machine, which no longer exists when the screw is removed.

I think I am going to devote my writing to these issues.

I know it all has a name, semionics or something. It makes my head spin.

Anyone else worry about these things?

To distill it all down to a nutshell
it is whatever you want it to be

Not a big help I know But if I go off on a Zen tirade people will throw fruit

Suffice to say...it is a bromm handle when it's functioning as one...when it's not...it's not.

When I'm in the pool..I'm a swimmer.
When I'm on the couch am I still a swimmer??

 

[WickedEve]

This is like my problems with labels. I have to have a label for everything. I'm currently fretting over properly labeling a relationship. Before that it was what to call my uncle's house. It was Jerry's house when he lived there. Jerry's house after he died. Jerry's house while my dad was remodeling it. Now that it's remodeled and my mom and dad stay there a couple of days a week, it's now the house on Cedar. It had to be changed and used by others to no longer be Jerry's house.

A broom handle: basically, it's a piece of wood made to be a broom handle. Once it's detached, it's still a broom handle to me. In the basement: old broom handle. Used as an aisle marker: old broom handle now used as aisle marker. After the wedding and back in the basement: aisle markers. Once the wood has been painted and tied with ribbon and served as aisle markers, then they become markers, with a history. "Oh, yeah. Those were the aisle markers for my wedding. They used to be broom handles."

 

[Angeline]

I love obsessing; I think it's a Gemini thing. For years (I mean years) one of my best girlfriends and I obsessed over the name of Carl Reiner's character in the film The Russians are Coming, The Russians are coming. We couldn't find it anywhere and it was driving us nuts. I even looked in a phone book a few time--yknow randomly at names--trying to jog my memory. (Too much information? I'm so neurotic, lol.)

Great movie, it is. Alan Arkin is very funny in it, too.

Anyway his name was Walt Whitaker. The character, I mean. It just popped in my head one night. I rejoiced. It was like solving the riddle of the Sphinx. Unraveling a Gordian knot. You get the idea.

And I'm pretty sure there were no broom handles at my wedding, though I'm thinking of revving one up to fly past the next full moon.

 

[Reltne]

They used to carve broom handles, didn't they?

They used to carve broom handles. A man would go into the woods and select a specific sapling to become a broom handle. On another day it might be a walking stick branch or a spear tree, but today it is a broom stick. He knew when he chose it what it was going to be, and he whittled it with that in mind. After the broom was no longer useful it was often re-broomed, but it was almost always recycled. And it became its use, be it a hoe handle, plant stake or banner pole. My grandfather used to carve handles and he always saved them. I don't carve anymore, but I still save the wood. Who knows, a friend might get married some day. In the meantime they have many uses.

 

[flyguy69]

Process v. Product

I have an Ojibwa friend whose son recently wanted moccasins for a dance outfit. My friend's response was, "OK, go get your gun."

They began the process of acquiring mocassins with hunting the deer which would provide the leather (and, of course, the attendant prayers and offerings). Next came the arduous task of tanning the hide, cutting and sewing, beading , etc.

His point was that how a thing comes to be a thing is at least as important as what the thing is. Everything exists in a context of how it came to be here.

Unfortunately, semantics forces you to choose insufficient labels. Call them broom handles if you like, because no real word is big enough to tell their story.

Ironically, someone drove over the handle of my driveway broom yesterday and crushed it. My response: "No problem! I've extra handles in the garage!"

 

[thenry]

"No problem! I've extra handles in the garage!"

So, flyguy is annaswirls' father?

I'm actually going to take a different tack, that being the only broom handle that is just a broom handle is one barely adequate to the task. By being a good broom handle a host of other potential identities is introduced.

Take, for instance, duct tape, which I've never actually seen on a duct. It does, however, make waterproof wallets. (Eve's parents could never stay in "a house on Cedar" unless it had belonged to Jerry first.)

The more and better uses you can find for something, the more its potential in the original role is validated. In other words, I think they were always broom handles.

 

[Honey123]

Serious question will follow the story, please be patient:

My father never throws anything away.
When a mop or broom is worn, he rescues it from the trash,
he keeps the handle.

All my life I remember this stack of broom handles laid across the exposed ceiling beams of our basement.


While planning my outdoor wedding, I realized I needed some sort of dowel rod, short pole, something to hold up the aisle markers that were to be driven into the ground and to hold hand picked wildflowers and ribbons.

My father offered up his broom handle collection.

He painted them white.
Drilled little holes in them to wire the flowers and ribbon on tight.

They were perfect.


MY QUESTION:

At what point did the broom handle stop being a broom handle?

This object that is defined by its function as a handle to a broom-- does it lose it's identity when it's function ceases?

Was it a broom handle in the basement, waiting for a new function? What was it?

Did it stop being a broom handle once it was unscrewed from the broom?

Were they broom handles pretending to be aisle markers, or by redefinition according to function, were they just plain aisle markers?

And now, they are back in the basement, waiting their next call. Are they broom handles again?

If they aren't, then what ever happened to the handles that they once were? Can you deny an object's existance by altering it's function?

Anna...What are they? Well, after reading the above, they are beautiful memories to me. The whole thought made me smile. Your father came to your rescue with his little idiosyncrasy.

I mean...why do people make rubber band balls?? Now that is just something I find weird!

You tear one page out of a book, it is a book with a missing a page.... right?

so what if the page that you rip out was the Last page in the book, is it still a book???

It's a book that is never ending....if it's the only book in the entire world..

take a screw from the machine, and it is still a machine, right? It did not need that one little screw... non-essential....

but if the screw is the last thing holding the machine together, the screw is an essential element of the machine, which no longer exists when the screw is removed.

I believe everthing is essential. You always have one or more screws left in the bag when putting something together, right? Well, most of the time you use those screws for something else anyway...so you were saved the time and money in going to the store to get more screws...


I never thought about these things until now...but I just love the fact that your dad did that! So, this didn't confuse me..made me smile!

 

[shyly curious]

All things are always in transition, even if we do not see at this moment.

Once I was a dream my father had, then I became an embryo, then a baby, a child, a teenager, an adult, a man. I am still evolving as a being, each day new choices, new paths.

The experience you had with your Dad changed you, ...



What are You now?


be well, and thanks for sharing such a wonderful story from your life!

 

[flyguy69]

So, flyguy is annaswirls' father?

Come to Daddy!

 

[WickedEve]

Come to Daddy!

Oh, that sounds so naughty.

Hey, anna. I have a birthday party this weekend. One of my kids will be 7 and I'm having a piñata at her party. I was told to use a broomstick for the whacking. But now... will it really be a broomstick or not? After the piñata is spanked with it, will it then be a whacking stick and no longer a broomstick? By the way, thanks for planting that bit of insanity in my head.

 

[flyguy69]

Oh, that sounds so naughty.

Hey, anna. I have a birthday party this weekend. One of my kids will be 7 and I'm having a piñata at her party. I was told to use a broomstick for the whacking. But now... will it really be a broomstick or not? After the piñata is spanked with it, will it then be a whacking stick and no longer a broomstick? By the way, thanks for planting that bit of insanity in my head.

She's going to spank a crepe paper donkey with a stick, and I'm the naughty one?

 

[WickedEve]

She's going to spank a crepe paper donkey with a stick, and I'm the naughty one?

Not a stick--a broomstick, which may no longer be a broomstick once it makes contact with the pinata.

 

[flyguy69]

Not a stick--a broomstick, which may no longer be a broomstick once it makes contact with the pinata.

I suspect the pinata will no longer be a pinata after it has been broomstruck, as well!

 

[annaswirls]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by thenry
So, flyguy is annaswirls' father?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come to Daddy!

ooh I feel so dirty

I think I need a bath...

and maybe a little spank...

 

[annaswirls]

Re: Re: A Serious Question (don't laugh! )

To distill it all down to a nutshell
it is whatever you want it to be

Not a big help I know But if I go off on a Zen tirade people will throw fruit

Suffice to say...it is a bromm handle when it's functioning as one...when it's not...it's not.

When I'm in the pool..I'm a swimmer.
When I'm on the couch am I still a swimmer??

I would argue that just because you are in the pool swimming does not make you a swimmer. When one swims in the pool to a level that he or she identifies themselves as a swimmer, it does not matter where they are, the chlorine smell, and the label, go with them.

When I taught I was a teacher even while watching X-files pretending to grade lab reports.

real identity comes with you.

a person who teaches one class as a guest speaker might not identify themselves as a teacher even during those 15 minutes.

real identity comes with you. it is what you are.

more than the sum of your identities

I am a poet in the bath tub
I am a poet on my knees
in the sandbox
I am a poet
even when I am not

 

[OT]

when I grow up, I wanna be a broomstick

Labels can be used for good or evil

For good, they let us compartmentalize the stuff of life into bite size digestible pieces.

For evil, labels limit.

The long skinny wooden things "could" be broom handles. Just because they were labeled as broom handles doesn't mean that they can't grow up to be something else.

Even when they are serving as handles, doesn't mean that they ought not be considered for other duties.

Labels, like our lot are temporary.

 

[annaswirls]

I love obsessing; I think it's a Gemini thing. For years (I mean years) one of my best girlfriends and I obsessed over the name of Carl Reiner's character in the film The Russians are Coming, The Russians are coming. We couldn't find it anywhere and it was driving us nuts. I even looked in a phone book a few time--yknow randomly at names--trying to jog my memory. (Too much information? I'm so neurotic, lol.)

Great movie, it is. Alan Arkin is very funny in it, too.

Anyway his name was Walt Whitaker. The character, I mean. It just popped in my head one night. I rejoiced. It was like solving the riddle of the Sphinx. Unraveling a Gordian knot. You get the idea.

And I'm pretty sure there were no broom handles at my wedding, though I'm thinking of revving one up to fly past the next full moon.

Angeline, I love it when you talk all crazy like this. You are one complicated chick.



oh, did you call information?

One time we called the Food and Drug Administration while in college in DC to ask, well, if they knew where we could get any.

 

[Angeline]

Angeline, I love it when you talk all crazy like this. You are one complicated chick.



oh, did you call information?

One time we called the Food and Drug Administration while in college in DC to ask, well, if they knew where we could get any.

Yes, I'm a pretty nutty girl. I'm a very nice person, but I'm eccentric as hell.

Information? Like 411? They'd ask what city and I only remember it was somewhere on Cape Cod.

Any what? Food or Drugs?

 

[annaswirls]

Yes, I'm a pretty nutty girl. I'm a very nice person, but I'm eccentric as hell.

Information? Like 411? They'd ask what city and I only remember it was somewhere on Cape Cod.

Any what? Food or Drugs?

sure but maybe they might have seen the movie

and yes,

we were in need of both
STAT.

 

[annaswirls]

This is like my problems with labels. I have to have a label for everything. I'm currently fretting over properly labeling a relationship. Before that it was what to call my uncle's house. It was Jerry's house when he lived there. Jerry's house after he died. Jerry's house while my dad was remodeling it. Now that it's remodeled and my mom and dad stay there a couple of days a week, it's now the house on Cedar. It had to be changed and used by others to no longer be Jerry's house.

A broom handle: basically, it's a piece of wood made to be a broom handle. Once it's detached, it's still a broom handle to me. In the basement: old broom handle. Used as an aisle marker: old broom handle now used as aisle marker. After the wedding and back in the basement: aisle markers. Once the wood has been painted and tied with ribbon and served as aisle markers, then they become markers, with a history. "Oh, yeah. Those were the aisle markers for my wedding. They used to be broom handles."

I cannot wait for the poem
the house on Cedar


"then they become markers, with a history"

I like the way you think
you must be one of those poets

 

[annaswirls]

Re: They used to carve broom handles, didn't they?

They used to carve broom handles. A man would go into the woods and select a specific sapling to become a broom handle. On another day it might be a walking stick branch or a spear tree, but today it is a broom stick. He knew when he chose it what it was going to be, and he whittled it with that in mind. After the broom was no longer useful it was often re-broomed, but it was almost always recycled. And it became its use, be it a hoe handle, plant stake or banner pole. My grandfather used to carve handles and he always saved them. I don't carve anymore, but I still save the wood. Who knows, a friend might get married some day. In the meantime they have many uses.

this is beautiful

thank you--

no go write a poem about it
I am serious.

who knew broom handles would be so inspiring

 

[annaswirls]

Re: Process v. Product

I have an Ojibwa friend whose son recently wanted moccasins for a dance outfit. My friend's response was, "OK, go get your gun."

They began the process of acquiring mocassins with hunting the deer which would provide the leather (and, of course, the attendant prayers and offerings). Next came the arduous task of tanning the hide, cutting and sewing, beading , etc.

His point was that how a thing comes to be a thing is at least as important as what the thing is. Everything exists in a context of how it came to be here.

Unfortunately, semantics forces you to choose insufficient labels. Call them broom handles if you like, because no real word is big enough to tell their story.

Ironically, someone drove over the handle of my driveway broom yesterday and crushed it. My response: "No problem! I've extra handles in the garage!"

damn
I am so glad I asked this question- I love learning about my commrades in poetry in their other lives.

now go write a poem about the deer to moccasin process

I think I am going to make this into a challenge.

"His point was that how a thing comes to be a thing is at least as important as what the thing is. Everything exists in a context of how it came to be here. "

see T-- no one is throwing fruit at Mister Fly! Zen and similiar spirituality like this above is sexy. If someone starts throwing fruit, I may have to pretend you all are living smoothies...



no straw required

 

[WickedEve]

I cannot wait for the poem
the house on Cedar


"then they become markers, with a history"

I like the way you think
you must be one of those poets

After that post, I thought the same thing. House on Cedar is a great title. Now, I have to come up with the poem. lol