A Rising Tide Still Lifts All Boats

[DawnONight]

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​

Initial thread.

And continuing...

Economist and author Stephen Moore highlighted a new study that says the middle class is getting richer, faster for President Trump than it did for recent presidents....​

J. Barmash, Middle class IS getting richer: Family incomes increased $4,100 since Trump took office and economist predicts it will make him tough to beat in 2020, Daily Mail (Oct. 3, 2019).

 

[DawnONight]

The middle class, it turns out, is shrinking. But not because they are falling into poverty, as some might have you believe. Rather, it is shrinking because more people are “moving on up,” ascending into a higher income bracket — and living the American dream.

Since 2016, the United States has had more wealthy households than middle-class households and the share of low-income households has reached a historic low....

So the next time you hear someone allege that the economy is leaving an increasing share of American households behind or see a pundit bemoan the “shrinking middle class,” take a closer look at the data and keep in mind that a “shrinking middle class” may actually be a sign of growing prosperity.​

C. Follett, Middle Class Shrinking… As Households Become Richer, Cato Institute (Sep. 18, 2019).

 

[phrodeau]

Clueless troll is back.

 

[My I]

Clueless troll is back.

Yes you are.

 

[jp55665566]

It's great to be a part of an optimistic, "singing" economy instead of the Obama "doom and gloom" dirge. Sadly, the Left and radical Authoritarian Leftists are trying hard to ruin National prosperity by offering FREE EVERYTHING for EVERYONE.

 

[dan_c00000]

Damn is racist dawn really starting this again? Well I guess if "she's" still interested in arguing about this I'll let her shout into an empty hall.

I'll just leave this here for "her" racist ass to read.

And this too: Billionaires paid lower tax rate than working class for first time in US history

Poor racist dawn. Gets "her" ass banned, comes back, and gets owned hard.

 

[jp55665566]

Can't see your comment Dan, but I can imagine it's something accusatory; probably mentioning some unspecified racist, white nationalist, lying, cheating, criminal President Trump behavior? Or perhaps an even less relevant ad hom attack on a poster's lack of intelligence?

 

[phrodeau]

Can't see your comment Dan, but I can imagine it's something accusatory; probably mentioning some unspecified racist, white nationalist, lying, cheating, criminal President Trump behavior? Or perhaps an even less relevant ad hom attack on a poster's lack of intelligence?

Are you in training to become a troll?

 

[magicalmoments]

Anything published by the Cato institute needs to be taken with a grain of salt and certainly not at face value. They have a long history of extreme right wing bias and no doubt fully agree that trump is the chosen one and has great and unmatched wisdom.

 

[DawnONight]

Anything published by the Cato institute needs to be taken with a grain of salt and certainly not at face value. They have a long history of extreme right wing bias and no doubt fully agree that trump is the chosen one and has great and unmatched wisdom.

You're displaying your ignorance again. The Cato Institute remains part of the "Never Trump" wing of the Conservative factions.

Furthermore, the numbers reported in the article come from the U.S. Census Bureau, not Cato. I just cited that article because it laid out those numbers.

 

[dan_c00000]

Can't see your comment Dan

If you can't see it (or you're in need of bot's mommy to read it to you) then you don't get to comment on it.

Owned, next?

 

[magicalmoments]

# 10 above.
The source of the figures is irrelevant. The CI are putting their own right wing spin on the interpretation, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
As I've said in another thread, the claim that this upward movement, and subsequent shrinkage of the middle class is evidence of an improving economy is bunkum. If the economy were improving then the increased wealth of the lower classes would have them moving towards the middle class filling the gaps. Instead the lower classes are growing in number.
Not a lot to crow about there.

 

[PrincepsCyberius]

# 10 above.
The source of the figures is irrelevant. The CI are putting their own right wing spin on the interpretation, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
As I've said in another thread, the claim that this upward movement, and subsequent shrinkage of the middle class is evidence of an improving economy is bunkum. If the economy were improving then the increased wealth of the lower classes would have them moving towards the middle class filling the gaps. Instead the lower classes are growing in number.
Not a lot to crow about there.

Dawn cites actual numbers from the Census Bureau showing the lower classes are shrinking by moving into the middle class.

Where is your evidence that "the lower classes are growing in number"?

 

[seeshelly]

What is in that pipe?

Clueless troll is back.

I notice your avatar shows a guy sucking on a pipe. Just curious what he is smoking.

Also, it sounds like you must have a clue tucked away somewhere. Mind digging it out and sharing it with the rest of us?

 

[magicalmoments]

#13 above.
Middle class is shrinking because they are moving into the upper class.
So... If the middle class is shrinking then logic dictates no-one is moving up from the lower classes. If they were then the middle class would be remaining the same or growing larger.
You can't have it both ways.

 

[phrodeau]

I notice your avatar shows a guy sucking on a pipe. Just curious what he is smoking.

Also, it sounds like you must have a clue tucked away somewhere. Mind digging it out and sharing it with the rest of us?

It’s an actor holding a prop. What are you smoking?

 

[DawnONight]

#13 above.
Middle class is shrinking because they are moving into the upper class.
So... If the middle class is shrinking then logic dictates no-one is moving up from the lower classes. If they were then the middle class would be remaining the same or growing larger.
You can't have it both ways.

It's not having it both ways. It is what the U.S. Census Bureau numbers show, as I already pointed out to you on another thread.

While I would use extreme caution in accepting any finding presented by the Cato institute, this report raises an interesting question.

The middle class is shrinking and the cause is that an increasing number are moving upwards to the upper classes because of improving wealth levels.

So... If this is an indicator of increasing wealth within the overall community why aren't the "vacancies" being filled by the lower classes taking a step up to middle class?

Clearly the lower classes are not benefitting from this increasing wealth.

Again, you've made a fool of yourself. May I suggest that you actually read an article before commenting on it. It shows the lower classes are, in fact, "taking a step up to middle class."

In 2018, the share of households earning less than $50,000 (i.e., the lower class) dropped below 40 percent for the first time since the U.S. Census data on this metric started to be collected in 1967. Back then, 54 percent of households earned less than $50,000.​

C. Follett, Middle Class Shrinking… As Households Become Richer, Cato Institute (Sep. 18, 2019).

A good chunk of the middle class is moving into the upper class, while a good chunk, albeit slightly small, of the lower close is moving into the middle class. Thus, the middle class is shrinking while everyone is benefiting from the robust economy. In other words...

https://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-a-rising-tide-lifts-all-the-boats-john-f-kennedy-307382.jpg

 

[dan_c00000]

Dawn cites actual numbers from the Census Bureau showing the lower classes are shrinking by moving into the middle class.

Where is your evidence that "the lower classes are growing in number"?

Dawn's article is, just like "her", full of hot shit. First the total number of people who've been moved out of the poverty category is fairly small numbers-wise, 1.4 million.

That same source also says:

But Elise Gould, a senior economist with the Economic Policy Institute, noted some disturbing trends. Although median household income rose for four consecutive years, the rate of growth and the income level has slowed significantly and is slightly below where it was almost two decades ago. "It's a step in the right direction, but most families barely made up the ground lost" with the recession, she said.

There were also huge racial disparities in the figures. The median income for African-American households last year was $41,361, compared with $70,642 for white, non-Hispanic households. The poverty rate for blacks was almost 21 percent compared to about 8 percent for non-Hispanic whites.

Also, it should be noted that dawn's racist source also didn't mention that Trump has been trying to redefine the poverty category to shore up those numbers as well as boot people off welfare programs.

You always, always have to remember that dawn is a massive racist who will always interpret data and look for sources that confirm "her" bias that "her" hero the Orange Nazi is doing a good job.

 

[AlexBailey]

So as the rising economic tide lifts all boats, whose boat holds the anchor chain of the national debt?

If your household just borrowed money and never planned to pay it back, your household economy would boom! You could have parties every night, run the swimming pool like it was a hot tub...

Since the Trump administration has decreased taxes on the wealthy and on business, where exactly is the money going to come from to pay the ever growing national debt? The GOP will eventually point to social spending as the culprit and prescribe new austerity measures. This will decrease funds available to social nets which have already proven to decrease long term costs to society by making investments in things like infrastructure, education and healthcare.

The design of the constitution was, among other things, supposed to '...promote the general welfare...' How does increasing the debt in a way that mostly benefits the wealthy contribute to 'promoting the general welfare'?

This economy is a house built of borrowed cards.

 

[magicalmoments]

#17 above.
As I keep telling you I have no argument with the Stats, just the interpretation of them and the conclusions of the completely biased Cato Indtutute. Like the Republican Party they are never going to present anything that might impact their funding.
Also as I keep telling you I will never accept the opinions of any politically extreme think tank ar face value.
The op-ed you reference is just that an opinion piece on stats presented from a neutral source. Their logic is flawed and I reject their conclusions. Your own watering down of the original post suggests to me that you're seeing the same flaws.

 

[DawnONight]

#17 above.
As I keep telling you I have no argument with the Stats, just the interpretation of them and the conclusions of the completely biased Cato Indtutute. Like the Republican Party they are never going to present anything that might impact their funding.
Also as I keep telling you I will never accept the opinions of any politically extreme think tank ar face value.
The op-ed you reference is just that an opinion piece on stats presented from a neutral source. Their logic is flawed and I reject their conclusions. Your own watering down of the original post suggests to me that you're seeing the same flaws.

To what conclusions are you objecting? You can ignore everything in the article except the raw numbers and see for yourself that the poor and middle class have done very well over the past two years. In fact, the poor have gotten wealthier while the wealthy have gotten poorer.

Again, the following is all U.S. Census Bureau data:

http://assets.realclear.com/images/49/490786_5_.png

Between 2017 and 2018:

· Real median family income up 1.2%

· Real median earnings up 3.4%

· Full-time, year-round workers up 2.3 million

· Poverty rate down from 12.3% to 11.8%; childhood poverty fell faster; net 1.4 million people left poverty

· Income in the bottom 80% of households was up significantly....​

A. Brown, The Economic News From the Census Bureau Is Very Good, RCM (Oct. 10, 2019) (citing J. Semega, et al., Income and Poverty in the United States: 2018, U.S. Census Bureau (Sep. 10, 2019)).

 

[jp55665566]

I visit 20-30 different businesses every day, across a spectrum of trades. They ALL have HIRING signs in their windows, like I have never seen before! Thank you President Trump!

 

[AlexBailey]

To what conclusions are you objecting? You can ignore everything in the article except the raw numbers and see for yourself that the poor and middle class have done very well over the past two years. In fact, the poor have gotten wealthier while the wealthy have gotten poorer.

Again, the following is all U.S. Census Bureau data:

http://assets.realclear.com/images/49/490786_5_.png

Between 2017 and 2018:

· Real median family income up 1.2%

· Real median earnings up 3.4%

· Full-time, year-round workers up 2.3 million

· Poverty rate down from 12.3% to 11.8%; childhood poverty fell faster; net 1.4 million people left poverty

· Income in the bottom 80% of households was up significantly....​

A. Brown, The Economic News From the Census Bureau Is Very Good, RCM (Oct. 10, 2019) (citing J. Semega, et al., Income and Poverty in the United States: 2018, U.S. Census Bureau (Sep. 10, 2019)).

Hey Dawn, Trump's tax measures didn't take effect until 2018, you posted the Obama numbers. Thanks for making the point.

 

[AlexBailey]

I visit 20-30 different businesses every day, across a spectrum of trades. They ALL have HIRING signs in their windows, like I have never seen before! Thank you President Trump!

You need to thank the generations that are getting saddled with the debt. Trump is partying on borrowed money. It's easy to make friends and impress people until the credit line runs out, but the GOP won't start complaining about the rising debt until Democrats take the Executive office.

 

[jp55665566]

You need to thank the generations that are getting saddled with the debt. Trump is partying on borrowed money. It's easy to make friends and impress people until the credit line runs out, but the GOP won't start complaining about the rising debt until Democrats take the Executive office.

While the National Debt has been a growing problem for decades, it is not attributable to Trump's 3 years in office. Prosperity is a better way to clear debt, than austerity. The National Debt is owed primarily to the Social Security "trust fund" haha, and to the Federal Reserve Bank. Trump is hardly "partying". It seems you are a avid partisan; not really focused on solutions. I think "draining the Swamp" would be a great benefit for the Nation's economic future.