A reprise of the perennial categories conundrum

[A_Little_Show]

I have a few highly rated stories at Literotica.

I like fantasizing and writing about exhibitionist and voyeuristic activities. Unless I am misremembering, all of my stories contain those elements. However, my stories seldom do well in the Exhibitionist/Voyeur category at literotica. I think the reason is that my kink has a particular criteria that most readers in that category don't share. For me, exhibitionism must be appreciated by the audience or it isn't sexy. Voyeurism has to be unintentional or at least situationally unavoidable to be sexy for me. Peeping Toms and blackmail and such seem more like non-consent to me! It's not voyeurism. It's invasion of privacy. That's just me though.

So, my exhibitionist stories end up in Romance or Group or Mature (or Non-consent/Reluctance ironically) and generally do fairly well in those categories. The problem/danger is that some readers in those categories are not expecting exhibitionism and related themes. It turns them off, and then I get nasty comments and poor reviews. Or, the elements of mild embarrassment that turn me on are not appreciated in those categories. There seems to always be something that isn't appreciated no matter what category I choose. I seem to be incapable of confining my libido or my stories to Literotica's category boundaries. The best I can do is place warnings at the tops of stories.

What can be done? I know I can't please everyone all the time, but here's the rub: My writing IS my exhibitionism. If it isn't appreciated, it isn't sexy to me. I get off knowing I helped other people get off. I particularly like it when they tell me about it!

There is another quirk in my psyche: I think the reason I gravitate toward exhibitionism is because I am a pleaser - a giver. I almost always prefer to give rather than receive. I want to turn you on. A lover's appreciation of my ministrations is way hotter than bumping uglies - for me. I masturbate to memories of working someone up to orgasm. I almost never imagine or anticipate my own orgasm. All of my stories contain autobiographical elements, and I really really enjoy(ed) the rare exhibitionist and voyeuristic events in my own life. So I'm stuck with kinks that don't align with Literotica's categories.

 

[Voboy]

I have a few highly rated stories at Literotica.

I like fantasizing and writing about exhibitionist and voyeuristic activities. Unless I am misremembering, all of my stories contain those elements. However, my stories seldom do well in the Exhibitionist/Voyeur category at literotica. I think the reason is that my kink has a particular criteria that most readers in that category don't share. For me, exhibitionism must be appreciated by the audience or it isn't sexy. Voyeurism has to be unintentional or at least situationally unavoidable to be sexy for me. Peeping Toms and blackmail and such seem more like non-consent to me! It's not voyeurism. It's invasion of privacy. That's just me though.

So, my exhibitionist stories end up in Romance or Group or Mature (or Non-consent/Reluctance ironically) and generally do fairly well in those categories. The problem/danger is that some readers in those categories are not expecting exhibitionism and related themes. It turns them off, and then I get nasty comments and poor reviews. Or, the elements of mild embarrassment that turn me on are not appreciated in those categories. There seems to always be something that isn't appreciated no matter what category I choose. I seem to be incapable of confining my libido or my stories to Literotica's category boundaries. The best I can do is place warnings at the tops of stories.

What can be done? I know I can't please everyone all the time, but here's the rub: My writing IS my exhibitionism. If it isn't appreciated, it isn't sexy to me. I get off knowing I helped other people get off. I particularly like it when they tell me about it!

There is another quirk in my psyche: I think the reason I gravitate toward exhibitionism is because I am a pleaser - a giver. I almost always prefer to give rather than receive. I want to turn you on. A lover's appreciation of my ministrations is way hotter than bumping uglies - for me. I masturbate to memories of working someone up to orgasm. I almost never imagine or anticipate my own orgasm. All of my stories contain autobiographical elements, and I really really enjoy(ed) the rare exhibitionist and voyeuristic events in my own life. So I'm stuck with kinks that don't align with Literotica's categories.

The same answers these threads always get seem to apply here:

1. Description should mention any out-of-category kink, if possible.
2. Perhaps an introductory disclaimer would help, though keep it short.
3. Tags, tags, tags.

 

[NotWise]

I think of exhibitionism and voyeurism as elements that can be included in stories that fit other categories. They aren't elements that require you to place them in E&V. Most of the highest-scoring stories in the recent Nude Day Contest -- which should all contain themes of exhibitionism and/or voyeurism -- are in categories other than Exhibitionism & Voyeurism

It may make some difference whether the exhibitionism or voyeurism is a main point of the story, or whether you use them to enhance a story that is otherwise consistent with the category's theme.

 

[KeithD]

So, my exhibitionist stories end up in Romance or Group or Mature (or Non-consent/Reluctance ironically) and generally do fairly well in those categories. The problem/danger is that some readers in those categories are not expecting exhibitionism and related themes. It turns them off,

You've seen actual evidence of this? It may not be significantly true. Some few readers will be put off about some element in anything you write. This may not be a significantly true premise, though, and therefore may not be the problem you think it might be.

 

[A_Little_Show]

Thank you - everyone who has replied.

I may be overblowing my fear that my kinks turn off some people no matter which category I pick. I'm using a small sample size of comments, messages, etc.

I try to use warnings at the top of stories if I think any content will be unpleasant for some readers. In spite of that, I get complaints. I know I can't please everybody even if that is my fantasy.

Tags are tricky at Literotica. They can be used for search and even search via Google. However, if a reader stumbles upon a story any other way, tags do not show up prominently BEFORE readers read a story - unless I'm missing something. Maybe I'll start posting a list of tags at the tops of my stories.

 

[KeithD]

I think that broadcasting possible problems up front in a story pretty much guarantees that there will be readers looking for that then and complaining about it. I get controversial issues covered in the tags and that's it. Readers here are supposed to be adults able to take responsibility for what they do or don't read themselves.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Tags are good for searches, maybe. Placed as they are at the very end, they serve no ‘warning’ purpose.

I know that this deceased equine beast has been thoroughly knouted elsewhen, but if there’s something which you think might offend a reader, then putting a short mention of that in an introduction is not only prudent (votes) but also simple good manners. “This story contains repeated exhibitionism; if that offends, please look elsewhere.” is not caving in to anybody or anything, it’s simply a charitable way to allow readers to self-screen. (Obviously not required if the story is in E&V.)

 

[KeithD]

Tags are good for searches, maybe. Placed as they are at the very end, they serve no ‘warning’ purpose.

I know that this deceased equine beast has been thoroughly knouted elsewhen, but if there’s something which you think might offend a reader, then putting a short mention of that in an introduction is not only prudent (votes) but also simple good manners. “This story contains repeated exhibitionism; if that offends, please look elsewhere.” is not caving in to anybody or anything, it’s simply a charitable way to allow readers to self-screen. (Obviously not required if the story is in E&V.)

Obviously I don't agree on the use of up-front author's notes. It's leading with your chin. And the tags are not the author's issue. They are provided. Again, any reader requiring babysitting shouldn't be here in the first place. The tags are there. If the reader has squeamish issues that give them the vapors, they can jolly well check out tags before reading--they can take responsibility for themselves.

 

[8letters]

I have a few highly rated stories at Literotica.

I like fantasizing and writing about exhibitionist and voyeuristic activities. Unless I am misremembering, all of my stories contain those elements. However, my stories seldom do well in the Exhibitionist/Voyeur category at literotica. I think the reason is that my kink has a particular criteria that most readers in that category don't share. For me, exhibitionism must be appreciated by the audience or it isn't sexy. Voyeurism has to be unintentional or at least situationally unavoidable to be sexy for me. Peeping Toms and blackmail and such seem more like non-consent to me! It's not voyeurism. It's invasion of privacy. That's just me though.

So, my exhibitionist stories end up in Romance or Group or Mature (or Non-consent/Reluctance ironically) and generally do fairly well in those categories. The problem/danger is that some readers in those categories are not expecting exhibitionism and related themes. It turns them off, and then I get nasty comments and poor reviews. Or, the elements of mild embarrassment that turn me on are not appreciated in those categories. There seems to always be something that isn't appreciated no matter what category I choose. I seem to be incapable of confining my libido or my stories to Literotica's category boundaries. The best I can do is place warnings at the tops of stories.

What can be done? I know I can't please everyone all the time, but here's the rub: My writing IS my exhibitionism. If it isn't appreciated, it isn't sexy to me. I get off knowing I helped other people get off. I particularly like it when they tell me about it!

There is another quirk in my psyche: I think the reason I gravitate toward exhibitionism is because I am a pleaser - a giver. I almost always prefer to give rather than receive. I want to turn you on. A lover's appreciation of my ministrations is way hotter than bumping uglies - for me. I masturbate to memories of working someone up to orgasm. I almost never imagine or anticipate my own orgasm. All of my stories contain autobiographical elements, and I really really enjoy(ed) the rare exhibitionist and voyeuristic events in my own life. So I'm stuck with kinks that don't align with Literotica's categories.

To me, you're fundamentally viewing this the wrong way. You know what it is liked and disliked in the various categories. The challenge is to write fit exhibition into your story in such a way that it'll be liked by the majority of readers in the category you've decided to publish it in.

My latest story "My Crocheting Little Sister" has spanking and bondage in it. Spanking and bondage are not popular in I/T. Any type of coercion is unpopular in I/T as readers want the fantasy of family members having consensual sex. But I wrote the story is such a way that the spanking and bondage comes across as very consensual. And readers have really liked it. I've gotten comments like, "I’m not into BDSM, but this story put a whole different spin on it" and "Crazy how you make incest porn with brother-sister anal sex and bondage so gosh-darned wholesome! (And hot)".

 

[TarnishedPenny]

There, I suppose, is the difference between you and I. You feel that warning somebody is babysitting them and that anybody seeing something they don’t like is ‘having the vapors’.

I view it as simple good manners, akin to putting a stylized Chili pepper beside the very spicy dishes on a Mexican restaurant menu, simply so nobody is surprised by something not to their own taste.

 

[Hypoxia]

I've long included tags or theme warnings in an author's preface note, with the injunction, "If you don't like these, stop reading." Try that; it might work.

 

[KeithD]

I've long included tags or theme warnings in an author's preface note, with the injunction, "If you don't like these, stop reading." Try that; it might work.

I think that putting the tags up front, which an author could try to do her/himself, in an author's note is a good idea when the Web site won't respond to requests going back for over a decade to do so. I've come close to trying that myself. While I can see doing that, I see defensive author's notes up front as a "kick me" sign, which readers are happy to indulge.

 

[Voboy]

I think that putting the tags up front, which an author could try to do her/himself, in an author's note is a good idea when the Web site won't respond to requests going back for over a decade to do so. I've come close to trying that myself. While I can see doing that, I see defensive author's notes up front as a "kick me" sign, which readers are happy to indulge.

There’s no functional difference, provided the authors’ notes are neutral in tone. Nobody suggested anything “defensive;” that’s your word.

 

[KeithD]

There’s no functional difference, provided the authors’ notes are neutral in tone. Nobody suggested anything “defensive;” that’s your word.

Yep, when you start worrying about what an individual or group of readers might find offensive (which could run into a million possibilities), I say you are being defensive about your work. We'll just have to disagree on that, I suppose. I also think you are posting a "kick me there" sign on the top of your story.

 

[NotWise]

Yep, when you start worrying about what an individual or group of readers might find offensive (which could run into a million possibilities), I say you are being defensive about your work. We'll just have to disagree on that, I suppose. I also think you are posting a "kick me there" sign on the top of your story.

I don't usually use warnings at the beginning of stories. I don't think most readers need it, and a lot may never read the author's note anyway.

That said, maybe sometimes there's a place for it. I put a note on my Nude Day sibcest story to say that the story originated as a dream and it contained a fantasy element. My main reason for doing that is that the "fantasy element" was largely disguised as insane delusions and hallucinations until near the end of the story, and I didn't want to hear the reader's groans.

It largely worked. One person commented that maybe it belonged in SciFi&F (which it couldn't because of the family angle) but they and other readers took it stride. Maybe the warning wasn't needed.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Thank you - everyone who has replied.

I may be overblowing my fear that my kinks turn off some people no matter which category I pick. I'm using a small sample size of comments, messages, etc..

You're right, your reactive sample size is tiny. One in a hundred viewers might leave a vote, one in a thousand might leave a comment (that's my rough average - Group readers are half as likely to comment and vote, Mature readers are twice as likely - based on my story file and category choices).

The issue is thinking those who do comment are representative of everybody else, but you have to look beyond that. The score is ten-fold more representative, but even then, it's only based on one percent.

Stop worrying about what might turn someone off with your content, concentrate on what turns you on, and make that sizzle.

I, for example, don't understand humiliation one tiny bit when it comes to erotica or kink, so I'd probably back out of your stories as "not my thing" - but I wouldn't be an asshole and rank you down or flip to the end and leave a comment. That's ass-hattery and content policing, and nothing to do with your story.

What I'm trying to say is, I'm not your audience, so don't try to write for me - you won't be happy, I won't read it anyway, so why bother? There are thousands who do share your kink, so write for them, not me. My opinion don't matter .

 

[TarnishedPenny]

One of the amazing things about this site is the breadth of presentations and tastes. If there was ever a site which proves Rule 34, this is it.

Yet what works for one reader will not work for the next and what one person finds exciting, another may legitimately find distasteful. Should every reader be subjected to things they don’t fancy, may even find offensive?

Most stories, if they stay within their logical boundaries, certainly need no warnings. If one opens a story in Gay Male, it’s because they expect to find gay sex scenes in it. Nobody looking in I&T can expect much sympathy if they object to mom-son sex. One cannot seriously object to bondage and spanking in a BDSM story. But to drop such things without warning into a story in, say, Romance could easily give offence or at least make many unwitting readers unhappy. I won’t even mention less-normal stuff like scat play, golden showers or vomiting.

The world of erotica is broad enough that everybody should be able to find something they enjoy without having to be subjected to things they find offensive. If a writer is including something, shall we say, ‘unexpected’ in a story, I think an initial ‘heads-up’ is simple courtesy.

 

[ElectricBlue]

There’s no functional difference, provided the authors’ notes are neutral in tone.

Notes up front tend not to be neutral, though, and can have the unwanted effect of drawing unnecessary attention to "scary" content.

I don't think people pay much attention in the grand scheme of things - even if you tell them up front that there might be "ooo, nasty kinks ahead, don't read if it's not your thing," they'll read anyway and bump your score down. That's why chapter stories are interesting - you can really see which buttons are being pushed by the way the chapter scores move around depending on content. It's usually pretty clear where the content police tremble and moan, "But I don't like that."

 

[KeithD]

The world of erotica is broad enough that everybody should be able to find something they enjoy without having to be subjected to things they find offensive.

Yes, but my point--which actually extracts from your premise--is that if they are adult, which they should be to be reading here, they should be adult enough just to walk away when/if something pops up in a story they find offensive. There will be other readers who find that arousing and they have just as much right to have their interests scratched as the reader who is offended does. I do not absolve readers from being adults if they read here and being willing/able to take responsibility for themselves and not be so delicate as to faint and call for the smelling salts when they encounter something they didn't expect. They are not the only reader here. If you see something that breaches the Web site rules, hit the report button. Otherwise don't impose yourself on other readers.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The world of erotica is broad enough that everybody should be able to find something they enjoy without having to be subjected to things they find offensive. If a writer is including something, shall we say, ‘unexpected’ in a story, I think an initial ‘heads-up’ is simple courtesy.

I agree in the case of the truly offensive content, but much of the moaning does come from the overly sensitive nervous nellies who don't like pink marshmallows, and struggle with anything deeper than a puddle. I can't see myself catering for those folk. I'd just say, go to the kiddies section of the library, because you're clearly not old enough to read books for grown-ups.

 

[Hypoxia]

I agree in the case of the truly offensive content, but much of the moaning does come from the overly sensitive nervous nellies who don't like pink marshmallows, and struggle with anything deeper than a puddle. I can't see myself catering for those folk. I'd just say, go to the kiddies section of the library, because you're clearly not old enough to read books for grown-ups.

Paraphrasing a song:

"They've got middle-aged bodies
But teen-aged e-MO-tions."​

I didn't mature till I was around 30. These guys may take a few more decades. But keep them away from kids' libraries. Send them to zoos instead. They can watch giraffes mating and receive flung poop from baboons. Groovy.