A Question of Honor- who gets a medal?

[Cheyenne]

A Question of Honor
By Inigo Thomas
Posted Friday, December 21, 2001, at 8:47 AM PT


In Friday's Wall Street Journal, the columnist Peggy Noonan presents a list of people she believes should receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom for their endeavors on and after Sept. 11. The medal is the most prized American honor that can be bestowed upon a civilian—whether they are American or not. Among Noonan's nominees are Rudolph Giuliani, the passengers and crews on board the hijacked planes, all the emergency workers in New York and Washington, Oprah, Paul McCartney, and all the journalists (at newspapers and television stations) who reported on the tragedy.


Yet is the Presidential Medal of Freedom the right medal? Few would dispute the courage of most of the people Noonan lists (although some might question the choices of Oprah and Paul McCartney). Those who did their all at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon deserve a medal. But would it not be better if the president created a new medal, one specifically related to the bravery of the day and of the days after? A Sept. 11 medal or perhaps a Presidential Medal of Courage—one considered as prestigious as the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but nevertheless an honor in its own right. Opponents might argue that a new medal isn't necessary, and why create two pantheons when one will do? Yet celebrating freedom and recognizing courage are different concepts. Moreover, those who did so much on Sept. 11 have marked themselves out as special; they therefore deserve a special honor that befits their deeds. Rather than ask them to join the ranks of Presidential Medal of Freedom honorees, those who acted so courageously in September have won the right to ask the rest of us to join their ranks, when and if equal courage must be called upon again.

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2060115

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Personally, I see a huge difference between the passengers in the air who heard about the other planes being used to crash into the WTC and the Pentagon and the rest of the people on the proposed list of medal recipients. Everyone else was doing their jobs that they were getting paid to do. The passengers were just normal people who showed amazing courage in giving their lives to save others on the ground.

My vote, if I had one on this topic, would be to give the passengers the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the others public thanks for doing their jobs well.

 

[PowerOfOne]

I could not agree with you more, Cheyenne.

 

[patient1]

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Personally, I see a huge difference between the passengers in the air who heard about the other planes being used to crash into the WTC and the Pentagon and the rest of the people on the proposed list of medal recipients. Everyone else was doing their jobs that they were getting paid to do. The passengers were just normal people who showed amazing courage in giving their lives to save others on the ground.

My vote, if I had one on this topic, would be to give the passengers the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the others public thanks for doing their jobs well.

Agreed ! Demonstrating your genius again.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Amen.

I agree 100% the heros of Flight 93 went way beyond what was expected of them.

God Bless them, and keep their familys safe and well.

Now, getting on my old fart outfit, back in the day...

When I was a police officer I often put myself in harms way. Hell I got a thrill out of it in a weird way. Cops are often the first ones to a fire. We neve waited for the fire department when life was at stake.

I was cited once for rushing into a fire and saving a few lives. No big deal, it was my job. Once the rush came down, later that night, after a few (okay more than a few) drinks with my friends, the reality of what I did hit me, then I got shook up.


Taking the old fart outfit off...

I don't know what I would have done on FLT 93. Group dynamics come into play. I am a big enough jerk that I would have probably played John Wayne, just the way I am. I don't mean that in a negative way. I have trouble coming to my own defense, but I will rush forth to defend others in a hearbeat. Still, would I have started something on my own? I know I would have joined in if someone else iniated the action.

They were and always will be heros.

 

[SINthysist]

Yes those passengers who attacked.

There were a certain subset of firemen, who while doing their jobs, stayed with people who could not escape on their own knowing that it meant certain death. One group died, the other survived. That is above and beyond and should be recognized, much like the Medal of Honor for a soldier. We do not say, he/she was doing their job.

As for the rest, a memorial in our capitol is the appropriate recognition.

 

[SilverVeil]

I agree 1000% with you. The passengers on the last flight may have stopped that plane from reaching it's intended destination. Instead, it went down in a largely unpopulated area.

As for Oprah ... *snort* what the hell has she done to deserve the medal spoken of ?

My philosophy is this : If you are going to take me out ... I am going to do anything in my power to make sure you go with me. I am not going to die meekly if I have a chance to fight. I will make you fight tooth and nail to live if I am going to die.

I also agree that there should be a new medal made for those who fought so long and so hard to reach the people hurt and killed on Sept 11th.

Yes they were doing their jobs. But this went WAYYYY beyond the normal scope of the job description. IMHO.

 

[Cheyenne]

Background info-

The Presidential Medal of Freedom is America's highest civilian award and, among all American honors, it ranks second to only the Congressional Medal of Honor—the nation's highest military award. This great honor is reserved for individuals the President deems to have made especially meritorious contributions to the security or national interests of the United States, to world peace, or to cultural or other significant public or private endeavors. Though it may be awarded for singular acts of momentous import, it is generally conferred only for a lifetime of service or at the conclusion of a distinguished career.
The award is "given only after careful thought, always sparingly so as not to debase its currency." In the thirty years from the award's creation by President Kennedy through the close of the Bush administration, three hundred recipients were accorded this high honor. Of these three hundred recipients, only Ellsworth Bunker was twice awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Since then, Colin Powell (who received the award from President Bush) was awarded a second Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Clinton.


CREATION

The idea of an annual National Honors List had been a topic of discussion for some time when, on November 28, 1962, the Gallup organization released the results of an opinion poll on the topic. In the poll, Americans were asked if they thought it would be a good idea to establish a National Honors List to recognize individuals for outstanding contributions in the arts, science, letters, education, religion, community service, and other similar endeavors. The pollsters found overwhelming support for the idea among Americans at all levels of educational attainment and in all age groups. They also found support among big majorities of Democrats, Republicans, and Independents.
On February 22, 1963, less than three months after the poll was released, President Kennedy issued an Executive Order creating the Presidential Medal of Freedom. He created it by renaming and redesigning a previous award—the Medal of Freedom—and by broadening its scope to include persons who had made especially meritorious contributions "in all forms of endeavor that are touched with the public interest." The new award was to be presented in two degrees, the Presidential Medal of Freedom with Distinction (the higher degree), and the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Full article at:
http://sites.netscape.net/presmedoffreed/award

 

[Merelan]

Oprah???? For what? Choosing the correct outfit to wear?
Not "dissing" her. Or maybe I am, anyways. She has done great things, but she would be the first, I would hope, to say No. I did not deserve this.

So would McCartney. in fact, he would be offended I think.

The firemen and cops? As stated they were doing their job. The ones I have seen interviews with have said they were only doing that, though they did more then that in my eyes. They wouldn't want them either. (For the most part that is)

The men and women on the flight? Yes, they deserve a special recognition.

Rudy? Yes, he has driven himself and others to go beyond what anyone could ever think of doing. If he iosn't careful, he will drive himself into the hospital. But the President's medal? Hmmm... Not sure he would accept, unless he accepted in the name of all those who have worked with and for him.

Then again, maybe I am naive.

 

[Guest]

Shaking off my X-Mas Lit slumber from my parents' computer........


The whole idea of these stupid medals and who gets them is retarded. Who fucking cares? It reminds me of the Soviet Union where medals pinned on civilian clothes became a kind of guilt currency among WW2 veterans.

Medals are like titles, you give them to people in lieu of something really important or substantial like money or power. I'm sure all of the dead from 9-11 give a rat's ass about what medal or honor they received posthumosely. If they had a consciousness I'm sure they'd be more concerned about the general financial and mental welfare of their families than a stupid medal and whether or not it's shared by Sir Paul or Queen Oprah.

 

[Weird Harold]

Medals are like titles, you give them to people in lieu of something really important or substantial like money or power. I'm sure all of the dead from 9-11 give a rat's ass about what medal or honor they received posthumosely.

No, those who died 9/11 won't care, but their families will.

Medals, especially medals of this rank, are a way to recognise things that no amount of money could reward. Long after any monetary reward is spent, having a name entered in the roll of heroic and influential people makes the heroes live on.

 

[Marxist]

No, those who died 9/11 won't care, but their families will.

Again, maybe some families will but many couldn't care any less. As an American I find awarding medals to civilians repugnant and bordering on Reich-like head nodding.

 

[alltherage]

We give metals to those of us who demonstrate extraordinary and uncommon acts which serve as inspriration in there own right. I am not certain who amoung those who died September 11 deserves a metal. It is easy enough to accept that those who fought back on flight 93 do. We will never truely know who else may have done something extraordinary in those last few moments before the first tower collapsed. We certainly know that anyone who entered the second tower after the first collapsed was showing courage.

In the days after the attack there have been so many stories of courage and hope that they become impossible to count. It seems that to pick out a few individuals amoung the hundreds who deserve to be honored is somewhat unfair. I do not have the answer about what to do.

In the days after the attack I noticed many changes in my travels. Of course there were hundreds of flags flying and many signs posted blessing america. The one that affected me most was a sign I saw on a tree in someones front yard. It simply said,"lets role." I found myself bawling like a baby as i drove. I don't know exactly why. I thought about flight 93, and the phone calls. I thought about the children who lost parents. I thought about how my home had been changed in a single horrible moment and I cried. Maybe we all deserve to honor ourselves.

In a world that had grown greedy and self oriented we seemed to suddenly become neighbors again. We showed that face of america through our acts and for me it was our shining moment. The people mentioned as candidates for this medal represent all those who have been affected by this atrocity and chose to act to help. What is satisfying in all of this is that the majority chose to help.

 

[Scabbers]

I'm sure all of the dead from 9-11 give a rat's ass about what medal or honor they received posthumosely.

Leave my ass outta this one, eh!

 

[koalabear]

Flight 93 passengers, they actually did save lives by giving their own.

 

[PowerOfOne]

BRAVO!!

We give metals to those of us who demonstrate extraordinary and uncommon acts which serve as inspriration in there own right. I am not certain who amoung those who died September 11 deserves a metal. It is easy enough to accept that those who fought back on flight 93 do. We will never truely know who else may have done something extraordinary in those last few moments before the first tower collapsed. We certainly know that anyone who entered the second tower after the first collapsed was showing courage.

In the days after the attack there have been so many stories of courage and hope that they become impossible to count. It seems that to pick out a few individuals amoung the hundreds who deserve to be honored is somewhat unfair. I do not have the answer about what to do.

In the days after the attack I noticed many changes in my travels. Of course there were hundreds of flags flying and many signs posted blessing america. The one that affected me most was a sign I saw on a tree in someones front yard. It simply said,"lets rumble." I found myself bawling like a baby as i drove. I don't know exactly why. I thought about flight 93, and the phone calls. I thought about the children who lost parents. I thought about how my home had been changed in a single horrible moment and I cryed. Maybe we all deserve to honor ourselves.

In a world that had grown greedy and self oriented we seemed to suddenly become neighbors again. We showed that face of america through our acts and for me it was our shining moment. The people mentioned as candidates for this medal represent all those who have been affected by this atrocity and chose to act to help. What is satisfying in all of this is that the majority chose to help.

Very well said, Alltherage! Your post brought tears to my eyes and visions of the horror that we all witnessed via the media.

I was told as a child to never question why because God knows what he is doing. I never heeded that advice and I still ask why, especially in this case. The answers will never come of course and even if they did they would not be enough to make it right.

One thing for sure, I changed on Sept. 11, 2001, I think a lot of us did. I take nothing for granted now. The word "safe" is but an illusion now. All of my hopes and dreams and tomorrows can be taken away in an instant because someone has felt wronged or needs to make a statement, whatever excuse they come up with.

Thank you for your post. You very eloquently said what many of us think and cannot verbalize. Happy New Year!

 

[patient1]

put a price on heroism?

No, those who died 9/11 won't care, but their families will.

Medals, especially medals of this rank, are a way to recognise things that no amount of money could reward. Long after any monetary reward is spent, having a name entered in the roll of heroic and influential people makes the heroes live on.

As long as they continue to be awarded as sparingly as a Nobel Prize or Congressional Medal of Honor, they'll have that effect.
Hand them out by the 1,000's and the heroes are as good as burried in the National Archives.

 

[christo]

I'm not a big fan of medals and awards and honors like that. It's very hard to give medals out without the whole thing turning into a political exercise, which cheapens the worth of those medals and insults the dignity of those who died in the tragedy.

Do Paul McCartney and Oprah deserve medals? I'm not sure what Oprah did after 9/11, but I know McCartney helped put together that big concert for the cops and fireman. Deserving of a medal? No. Deserving of thanks and praise for helping those in need? Absolutely. A medal...it's pointless.

A special medal for the cops and firefighters killed? For the passengers on Flight 93 who fought the hijackers and almost certainly prevented another catastrophe? To me, giving them a medal sounds more like a photo op for the politicians and folks handing out the goodies than an honor for those who died. Noonan is a politcal operator who formerly wrote speeches for President Reagan, and I'm sure she can just picture in her mind Bush pinning a medal on the pregnant widow of the guy from Flight 93 who said "Let's roll!" Wouldn't that shot look fantastic in campaign ads in 2004?

 

[SINthysist]

Marxist

"Again, maybe some families will but many couldn't care any less. As an American I find awarding medals to civilians repugnant and bordering on Reich-like head nodding."

I think you should realize that to be true, your first statement should read "...MOST families will but a few couldn't care any less."

As an American, I find awarding anything to civilians to be what america is about. We have a governement elected by and responsible to the citizens, we have a civilian militia, and in times like these, it is the civilian population that comes to our rescue, NOT BIG BROTHER or the memory of Lenin and Stalin!

 

[Cheyenne]

I agree. I think most families would be thrilled to have their loved one receive this award.

 

[Desert Amazon]

 

[brazenblaze]

I hate to be the "bad guy" here, but I don't believe any of them should get an award of this calibar.

Oprah is a joke.

Major Rudy G. was doing what the people of New York paid him to do.

The fireman and the police where doing their job, and have and will receive the medals that mean something to them...Thanks and appreciation.

The passengers of flight 93...well who knows what they did. Yes, we know that someone on that plane made a command decision and acted to prevent what had happened with the other three planes, but who did what?

I hate to be a bitch, but I'm sure that not every single person on that plane died a hero. I'm sure there were cowards quivering in the corners. It is too hard to say who did what and if you start pinning medals on people just for "being there" then you dilute the value of the medal and the acts done to receive it.

If you want to give a medal or acknowledge what we THINK they did, then build another damned memorial and be done with it.

Just my two cents worth.