A question of ethics

[Octavian]

I would value the opinions of my fellow authors.

I have recently read a story here, which, while good, could have been so much better. I originally decided to rewrite it for my own pleasure, and in so doing, have taken it in a different direction.

I believe it is now sufficiently different from the original so as to warrant posting. Nevertheless, there are a number of common events, (albeit written differently) and the basic concept is similar. I do intend to seek the author's permission to post the story and will freely acknowledge the source for my own story.

My question is what do I do if permission is refused? Whilst plagiarism can never be tolerated, can an author lay claim to an idea?

 

[SeaCat]

Damn good question.

I can't say anything about the legalities of this but I do know how I would feel and react.

If someone rewrote and posted one of my stories under their name without my permission I would feel rather angry about it. I would personally view it as theft. (Is Plagarism theft? I don't know.)

The way I would prefer another author to do this would be to ask my permission prior to re-writing it then after they are done letting me read their work to see what I thought. Believe it or not in most cases I would probably not only allow them to rework my story but would view it as a type of compliment that they thought highly enough of my basic idea and story line to want to play with it. (Hey I know I am no where near the level of ability of many here so they could only improve my story.)

Cat

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I would value the opinions of my fellow authors.

I have recently read a story here, which, while good, could have been so much better. I originally decided to rewrite it for my own pleasure, and in so doing, have taken it in a different direction.

I believe it is now sufficiently different from the original so as to warrant posting. Nevertheless, there are a number of common events, (albeit written differently) and the basic concept is similar. I do intend to seek the author's permission to post the story and will freely acknowledge the source for my own story.

My question is what do I do if permission is refused? Whilst plagiarism can never be tolerated, can an author lay claim to an idea?

Few ideas are original. Most everything has been done in some similar form before. A very good freind recently found a story online she felt sure was a rip off of one of mine. Perhaps it is. The theme is similar enough, but it is detailed differently, with excessive ventrues into territory I didn't cover in mine. My story is copyrighted, but even then, proving it was stolen and the modle for the story posted would be terribly difficult if not impossible and, in the end, I can't even say for sure it was.

Basically, you can copyright your work, but not your ideas. I feel pretty safe in sayng if you took all the stories in most cats, you could build a fairly extensive collection of works with similar theme, plot and base idea. The odds greatly favor the works being done independantly.

I have seen mine stolen where the thief merely changes names of characters or perhaps location. those are theft, the body of the work is still mine. In other cases, I can suspect my idea was pirated, but would be hard pressed to prove it.

Ethically, to me, it comes down to the work. If you were inspired by someone else's idea, but did all your own work, with your own plots and sub plots, characters and descriptions, you are not stealing. My Last fuck, goodbye, follows a pretty much tried and true base idea. Lovers separated by some catastrophe. The story is my own, but the idea is present in hundreds of stories, both main stream and erotic.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I would value the opinions of my fellow authors.

I have recently read a story here, which, while good, could have been so much better. I originally decided to rewrite it for my own pleasure, and in so doing, have taken it in a different direction.

I believe it is now sufficiently different from the original so as to warrant posting. Nevertheless, there are a number of common events, (albeit written differently) and the basic concept is similar. I do intend to seek the author's permission to post the story and will freely acknowledge the source for my own story.

My question is what do I do if permission is refused? Whilst plagiarism can never be tolerated, can an author lay claim to an idea?

I think it would depend on the previous author's answer. If he/she does not approve, I'd dump the story in my Word file and expect that to remain its home. If the two are similar enough that you're planning on asking, instead of letting it take it's own life and considering it an original work in its own right, then it is probably close enough (or you feel it is, on one level or another) to constitute stealing. Legally or otherwise is another issue, as is the question of whether or not the original author would ever find out that the story has been rewritten.

As Colly pointed out, there is no copyrighting ideas, but if your conscience is bothering you enough that you're asking, it might be a sign that the story hasn't changed quite enough.

Also, consider sending the story itself to the original author, if you haven't, to give them the foreknowledge of what exactly you've changed. It might be something they find offensive if the changes you made were ones they feel the story couldn't do without.

Q_C

 

[R. Richard]

The ethics question boils down to one simple question. The question is, did you create a story. The fact that you based the story on someone else's ideas is irrelevant, ideas can't be copyrighted. If you changed one paragraph, publishing the story would probably be plagiarism. If you rewrote the basic ideas so that most of the story is your creation, then legally there is no problem. There is probably no problem ethically unless you feel there is a problem.


JMHO.

 

[kbate]

Imho,

If any of the original text of the source story remains, that is plagiarism, If you only reworded the orginal story to fit your linguistic tastes, it is plagiarism.

If you used the original story, changed characters names, places, and wrote a sequel or similar story completely in your own words, that is acceptable.

 

[glynndah]

Give the author credit for creating the characters, setting, etc., and inspiring you to write a story loosely based on them. Perhaps titling it "FIRST AUTHOR'S TITLE in an alternate universe." (Capitals not meant to be shouting, just emphasis.) Asking permission is essential.

 

[kendo1]

Even if you do get permission, watch out for some wonderful comments from the readers!

 

[Boota]

As an author I think I would allow someone to rewrite my story on Lit, if they asked and gave me credit for the original story. If they did it without asking, or went ahead after I said no, I would be pissed. I would want to read the rewritten story before it was posted, too. I think that is the way to go. If the author of the original story thinks it's too close to their work they might have a problem that could be worked out between the two of you. Were I the one to rewrite the story and the original author nixed the idea of allowing me to post it I would let it languish in the Dead Story Drawer of my desk.

Lately, I've been watching My Name Is Earl for much the same reason. The theme seems very similar to my book, which is being shopped to filmmakers in Hollywood. When I first heard that they were putting out a show like that I immediately thought that someone the agent spoke to stole my book for their tv show. I was trying to figure out if I had to sue the producers. After watching it I think that whoever wrote it probably read my book and changed it. A lot. They took my idea a different direction. Plus, my book is MUCH funnier and couldn't be put on tv because it's filthy. So, while the idea is roughly the same, from what I've seen so far I have no claim against them. But I'm still watching. If they take anything from me I'm going after them.

 

[elsol]

I would value the opinions of my fellow authors.

I have recently read a story here, which, while good, could have been so much better. I originally decided to rewrite it for my own pleasure, and in so doing, have taken it in a different direction.

I believe it is now sufficiently different from the original so as to warrant posting. Nevertheless, there are a number of common events, (albeit written differently) and the basic concept is similar. I do intend to seek the author's permission to post the story and will freely acknowledge the source for my own story.

My question is what do I do if permission is refused? Whilst plagiarism can never be tolerated, can an author lay claim to an idea?

It really depends on how you feel as it is an ethical question.

My opionion is that I would never REWRITE a copyright non-expired story without the writer's permission to begin with.

If this had been a commercial venture, you'd land in court. Here we don't have that venue so it's only an agreement that we will treat each other with respect.

The fact that you decided to take it in a 'different' reaction is irrelevant... you traced a story.

I can't trace the Mona Lisa , say 'Yeah, but I did it in charcoal!', and call it 'mine'.

How I handle this situation... is to say 'ARRRGH! You fucking shithead... why did you have to go left! Why couldn't you go right the way I want you to go! ARRRGH! Oh yeah, well fuck you... I'll show you how it's done!'

I then write MY OWN story... and step 1 is to toss everything of the old one.

I build the story from the ground up... not use someone else architectural drawing.

But that's just my opinion.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[LadyTigeress]

An interesting quandry. Assuming you get refusal, I, personally would not post such a story. However, if you were to post a story, an appropriate way to do it would be to say, 'this work is inspired by <TITLE> written by <AUTHOR>. I enjoyed the concept so much I had to expound upon it.' After that, I'd put a little ditty saying that you sought and did not receive permission to post; letting the judgement fall into the reader's hands.

In classical art, it's often acceptable to 'copy' the works of the old masters to get a feel for the brush stroke, ad cetera. These works are signed, 'AFTER'. I.e. if I were to do a multi demensional etching similar to the works of Esher, I would sign it, 'Tigeress after Esher'.

LT

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's interesting that you used the Mona Lisa as your example, Elsol, as I am currently part of an artist's project, were each one does a self portrait in the pose of the Mona Lisa. We defined the Iconical aspects of the portrait (Seated position, folded hands, smile, deep landscape background) and other than that, every one has total freedom to present in any way they wish. So far we've had nudes, modern business suits, a variety of mediums and styles.
The thing is that, although every one of these paintings will make you say "Mona Lisa" you would also know unequivocally, that they are all of them original works.

MY question is this- given the limited and specific aspect of erotica- how the hell would you be able to say that one story was plagiarised off of another one? Someone gets laid, in one fashion or another- there's a husband or not, there are werewolves, maybe, if you're in the fantasy section, or if you're in non consent someone says "Oh, no, don't" and if you're in BDSM, someone gets nipple clamps.

When I browse the stories, the mind-numbing sameness of most of the fare offered... well... numbs the mind, I suppose. In certain categories, all the stories seem identical, with changes only in hair color and name. If one version is better written than another, that's the one I'd go with.

Without knowing what genre your story is, Octavian, or how closely you followed the original story line- I would say, if' you've changed it that much, go ahead and publish.

 

[oggbashan]

Inspired by...

Fanfic (fan fiction e.g Star Trek, Harry Potter) is a grey area for copyright because the original characters and scenario are essential if the fanfic is to be fanfic. As long as you are not making money from the stories then most creators of the original will not bother to chase you.

My stories Christmas Fairy Ch.01 and 02 are loosely based on a short story by Piers Anthony 'The Bridge'. I took and restated the premise of that story and then expanded it to include what happened next. I acknowledge my debt. I could not sell that story because it is based on his story and is effectively fanfic even though very few people would have recognised or known about the existence of the original story.

I have 'translated' very short stories from German originals. I do not know enough German to produce an accurate translation so I used Babelfish and then rewrote the ensuing mess as an English story, expanding it considerably with new matter and plot. I acknowledge my debt. I could not sell those stories because they are not my original work. In one story the original is about 10% of the completed work and 90% mine but it is not ALL mine.

I think that is critical. If any part of your story is someone else's it is not YOUR story. If the story inspired you to write a completely different story that no one would recognise as being derived from the original story then the work IS yours.

My view is that no matter how comprehensively you have rewritten a story it is still not yours. Shakespeare could get away with it. We can't.

Og

 

[Octavian]

I have considered the matter carefully and am inclined to think that oggbashan and ElSol are right.

I will not take this any further.

Thanks to all for your advice

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have considered the matter carefully and am inclined to think that oggbashan and ElSol are right.

I will not take this any further.

Thanks to all for your advice

Isn't that frustrating- "all that work for nothing" kind of a feeling...

BUt, I must say- considering your extensive output- perhaps it's not that bad. Will you be able to use any of the work you've put into it, in something else?

 

[Octavian]

Isn't that frustrating- "all that work for nothing" kind of a feeling...

BUt, I must say- considering your extensive output- perhaps it's not that bad. Will you be able to use any of the work you've put into it, in something else?

Yes there is a chance. Thanks for your encouragement.