A Question for Trump Supporters

[lilsarah91]

I would like a real answer. No childish name calling, no arguing, no deflection, no what if's, none of that bullshit and actual, real, honest to God, adult answer...... Think you can do it?

Why do Trump Supporters love Fascism so much?
or.....
What is it about Fascism that you, as a Trump Supporter, think is a great idea?

 

[pecksniff]

I think they like the populist nationalist/racist aspect of fascism but are iffy about the military aggression.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

lilsarah laffing at the incoming deflection.

https://i.giphy.com/media/DhrsQNm8WuWic/giphy.webp

Good luck with anything that resembles honesty from the Trumplitards.

 

[pecksniff]

This is a good discussion of what fascism actually is, in an ideological sense.

The ideological component of fascism has often been neglected in favor of psychohistories of fascist leaders and morbid prose poems about national character. This is understandable, since one of the defining features of fascism is ideological syncretism. Usually, this has meant combining "socialism" with some form of nationalism, but even this minimum requires qualification. The study of fascist ideology is made even more difficult by the fact it was most systematically expressed where it had the least influence, in France and Britain. (Eatwell is not an admirer of British fascist leader Sir Oswald Mosley, but he does give him credit for producing the best thought-out fascist party-platform. The best platform so far, that is.) In any case, at the local level, fascism often had little theoretical content, beyond the privilege of beating people up with impunity. Nevertheless, fascism does have an intellectual history, and the phenomenon as a whole is not so diffuse as to defy definition.

Fascism would not have been possible without Friedrich Nietzsche. There has been no lack of anti-theistic philosophers both before and after Nietzsche, but he is almost alone in honestly facing the consequences of living in a world in which everything is permitted. Most thinkers have sought to preserve some fragment of the intellectual structure that depended from the hypothesis of the Christian God, and so they appeal to reason or history or science. Nietzsche would have none of it. If the skies are really empty, then there are no imperatives. There is, however, life, which in the case of human beings expresses itself not just as biology but as the will. Now Nietzsche, unlike Schopenhauer and unlike many of his own followers, recognized the will is itself a composite entity. It is not a primary physical force, and it is not a god. It does, however, actually exist, and its exercise is all the meaning that life can ever have.

The proposition that the meaning of life is the exercise of the will leads to two kinds of conclusions. The most obvious, and the most popular, is the cult of cruelty. Naturally, the street-fighters who normally figure in the public activities of successful fascist parties are rarely well-read in the literature of philosophical nihilism. Nevertheless, even the nihilist violence of the German SA and the Italian "squadristi" chimes with high theory. Fascism promotes ruthlessness for the same reason that it promotes conspiracy theories: for a fascist, nothing is going to happen unless some will makes it happen. One suspects this consideration is also a factor in the usual fascist suspicion of free markets.

The other conclusion to which an ontology of the will leads is the transformation of politics into art. Whole societies become instruments for the expression of the will of elites, or often of a single great individual. In fascist theory, this is all that politics ever was, no matter what purportedly disinterested purposes the ruling elites of the past believed they served. The difference that Nietzsche made was that this reality could become conscious.

Fascism is not quite coincident with the great man theory of history. Since human beings are social animals, the will is to some extent a social phenomenon. Thus, reality is an intersubjective construct, a fable that people make up amongst themselves. The construct is not entirely arbitrary. Most fascists have also posited a strong racial or biological element conditioning the way that leaders and their peoples behave. Still, even in highly racialized forms of fascism, the leader stands to the people as the will stands to the individual. Politics, then, is not an arbitrary art, but an art whereby the leader makes the unconscious will of the people explicit.

 

[KeithD]

My question to Trump supporters is at what point is his criminality, corruption, self-dealing, treason, venality, disparagement and manipulation of you and your own gullibility just too much?

 

[Rotadom]

The Trump supporters backed him even after this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2016/08/mocking-reporter.gif

It should have been over right then.

 

[Cubantripod]

I would like a real answer. No childish name calling, no arguing, no deflection, no what if's, none of that bullshit and actual, real, honest to God, adult answer...... Think you can do it?

Why do Trump Supporters love Fascism so much?
or.....
What is it about Fascism that you, as a Trump Supporter, think is a great idea?

Is this a serious question? It's beyond laughable to think that anyone would want or support fascism. Perhaps if you started with why do you support Trump, you might be able to engage someone in a serious debate. You're only looking for confirmation for your own biases, and hence the perpetual name calling that passes for debate here. You thinking he's a fascist, does not make him a fascist.

 

[The_Trouvere]

I would like a real answer. No childish name calling, no arguing, no deflection, no what if's, none of that bullshit and actual, real, honest to God, adult answer...... Think you can do it?

Why do Trump Supporters love Fascism so much?
or.....
What is it about Fascism that you, as a Trump Supporter, think is a great idea?

There are probably some Trump supporters who would like a fascist dictatorship with Trump as the dictator. Most are not that extreme. They do think the United States has been evolving in wrong directions, and they want a strong leader who can move things in directions they like.

I think there are four kinds of Trump supporters. First, there are traditional, affluent Republicans. These do not need the government for much. For them the issue is taxes. They want their taxes cut. They fear tax increases. They appreciate the fact that Trump cut their taxes, and that the stock market rose while he was president.

Second, there are small business owners. These fear the growing popularity of democratic socialism. They should fear being run out of business by large corporations, but they prefer not to think about that. Distrusting big business would make them feel like socialists.

Three, there are white, blue collar Republicans, A.K.A., the alt right. They would rather blame non whites at home and abroad, Jews - who they deny are white - and liberals, than acknowledge that the better paying jobs they are able to learn are being replaced by computers and industrial robots that can do the jobs faster, better, and less expensively than they can.

Finally, there are Christian conservatives. They fear a society that is becoming increasingly secular and hedonistic. The fact that they support a man so obviously secular and hedonistic as Trump demonstrates how desperate they are to support anyone who says, however implausibly, "I am on your side."

 

[YDB95]

The Trump supporters backed him even after this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2016/08/mocking-reporter.gif

It should have been over right then.

Even after that? That kind of thing is just what they love about the man. He made it OK to be openly bigoted for the first time in decades.

 

[Goldenfinger]

I would like a real answer. No childish name calling, no arguing, no deflection, no what if's, none of that bullshit and actual, real, honest to God, adult answer...... Think you can do it?

Why do Trump Supporters love Fascism so much?
or.....
What is it about Fascism that you, as a Trump Supporter, think is a great idea?

You ask for no games but you question is a game. Who loves fascism? You need to ask a question that’s less accusatory, insulting and less patronizing. Think you could do that.

I’m sure most people don’t wanna dictatorship.
Most people don’t think he’s racist. He rejected racist groups that came out and supported him but the news agency’s said he didn’t reject them hard enough. But his work on justice reform doesn’t get much talk.


And if you really want to youse the world fascist. We now live in a way more fascist America now than in the previous administration. Mask mandates, Covid passports, mandatory Covid shots and segregated safe spaces. Try clearing you mind and see all perspectives.

 

[YDB95]

Most people don’t think he’s racist. He rejected racist groups that came out and supported him but the news agency’s said he didn’t reject them hard enough.

True enough, the news agencies did not pretend calling them "very fine people" amounted to rejecting them. They also reported accurately that the Proud Boys chose to interpret "stand back and stand by" as a call to arms whether he meant it that way or not.

 

[pecksniff]

And if you really want to youse the world fascist. We now live in a way more fascist America now than in the previous administration. Mask mandates, Covid passports, mandatory Covid shots and segregated safe spaces. Try clearing you mind and see all perspectives.

Fascist is not the same as authoritarian.

 

[pecksniff]

But his work on justice reform doesn’t get much talk.

What on Earth are you talking about?

 

[pecksniff]

Is this a serious question? It's beyond laughable to think that anyone would want or support fascism.

There is such thing as the alt-right. And it is heavily pro-Trump.

 

[Goldenfinger]

True enough, the news agencies did not pretend calling them "very fine people" amounted to rejecting them. They also reported accurately that the Proud Boys chose to interpret "stand back and stand by" as a call to arms whether he meant it that way or not.

He said there are fine people on both sides.

But he has many times rejected racism.

 

[pecksniff]

He said there are fine people on both sides.

But he has many times rejected racism.

That is not rejecting racism.

 

[Chernosoth]

Nobody in the US wants that version of socialism. There are many Democrats who want Soviet socialism, now called The Great Reset, because they are desperate to keep the managerial class in power. The Republican habit of throwing the socialist label at anything Dem has reduced the stigma, like Dems throwing the racist label are making racism more acceptable.

 

[pecksniff]

Nobody in the US wants that version of socialism.

No, fascism is not a version of socialism.

There are many Democrats who want Soviet socialism.

 

[Veroe]

I would like a real answer. No childish name calling, no arguing, no deflection, no what if's, none of that bullshit and actual, real, honest to God, adult answer...... Think you can do it?

Why do Trump Supporters love Fascism so much?
or.....
What is it about Fascism that you, as a Trump Supporter, think is a great idea?

Unfortunately, the answer is they don't see it as fascism or racism. On the contrary they see Trump as standing up against the fascism and racism of the left.

That's the real problem we don't have an agreement on the facts when it comes to this man. On both sides Trump only makes people act on their feelings for him. You either love him or hate him, period. He's become a culture war topic all on his own. You either want him impeached or indicted or you'll give him a pass on anything and everything just because the people you hate hate him you feel you're obligated to defend him.

 

[The_Trouvere]

This is the way Trump is seen by many of his supporters:

trump-tweet-meme-1.jpg

They are afraid of directions the United States is moving in, and they hope against hope that Trump can reverse these directions. The fact that they are depending on such a squalid individual is evidence of their desperation.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Nobody in the US wants that version of socialism. There are many Democrats who want Soviet socialism, now called The Great Reset, because they are desperate to keep the managerial class in power. The Republican habit of throwing the socialist label at anything Dem has reduced the stigma, like Dems throwing the racist label are making racism more acceptable.

Democrats who say that they prefer democratic socialism to capitalism are Democrats for whom capitalism is not working. Many are young college graduates whose degrees have left them with nothing but student loans they cannot pay, and low wage jobs.

 

[HUNGRYHOLLOW]

So the problem was record unemployment lowest inflation in 40 years lowest black unemployment in history low gas prices American jobs ect ect
But he hurt people’s feeling’s
Now what do we have dementia guy and a cock sucker pretending to run the country
What has he accomplished
Highest inflation in 40 years and completely out of control
Border’s a disaster
Depending on foreign energy
Afghanistan
Ect ect

 

[Veroe]

So the problem was record unemployment lowest inflation in 40 years lowest black unemployment in history low gas prices American jobs ect ect
But he hurt people’s feeling’s
Now what do we have dementia guy and a cock sucker pretending to run the country
What has he accomplished
Highest inflation in 40 years and completely out of control
Border’s a disaster
Depending on foreign energy
Afghanistan
Ect ect

This is a good example of what I was talking about. We don't agree on the facts or rather the importance of those facts. It's our feelings that get in the way. Democrats predisposed to like Biden will dismiss the inflation but would harp on it if it was under Trump's watch. And by the same token Republicans predisposed to like Trump will dismiss Jan. 6th but it'd be "Lock her up" if it was Biden supporters storming the capital building.

The facts remain the same, but the importance of those facts to us largely decided upon by our predisposed feelings about them.

 

[YDB95]

He said there are fine people on both sides.

But he has many times rejected racism.

No, he really hasn't. His fans just say he has as if that makes it so.
Besides, when one side is chanting "Jews will not replace us," saying there are "fine people on both sides" is the opposite of rejecting racism. It's condoning racism.

 

[Lazaran]

So the problem was record unemployment lowest inflation in 40 years lowest black unemployment in history low gas prices American jobs ect ect
But he hurt people’s feeling’s
Now what do we have dementia guy and a cock sucker pretending to run the country
What has he accomplished
Highest inflation in 40 years and completely out of control
Border’s a disaster
Depending on foreign energy
Afghanistan
Ect ect

Is that ^ how you remember/see it???

And Deplorables wonder why they're constantly ridiculed.



Also: IGGY