A question for the believers....

[BlackSnake]

Here's my thoughts on it:

I like the Piers Anthony 'On a Pale Horse' version of God handling atheists.

At death, you don't go to hell or heaven... you simply cease to be.

ElSol

This is the only fear that I have. It would be nice in heaven, and hot in hell, but what's the void?

I can deal with the body becoming recycled, but the mind and sprint going into nothingness? That's scary.

With both heaven and hell there is a being, there is nothing with the void.

I truly believe in one God, the maker of heaven and earth. I believe he waits until your time is done on earth before he makes judgement.

I do believe that you'd have to develope a personal relationship with Jesus, else he wouldn't know you. And no one enters heaven except through Jesus.

That's my story and I'm sticking to to.

 

[SnoopDog]

Ok, time for me to get a little religious.

I have to admit I was kinda inspired by another thread over on the GB (yes, yes, I confess, I post there, go sue me)

Here's the question:

I'm an atheist and as such I'm curious what God's attitude towards atheists would be. (If he exists that is)

I still am a protestant on the paper but I completely lost my faith. However I still know that most people who believe in God also believe in heaven and hell. They believe that God is merciful and will eventually forgive them their sins if they choose to go to church, pray, confess, etc.

Then there are those people who are 'seduced' by evil/the devil/whatever. And as a punishment for their sins they'd go to hell. There are also the ten commandements.

Now, if I'm an atheist and coose to completely ignore God, would God send me to hell or forgive me? I know the bible say you shouldn'T have other gods next to the One. But does it say anything about people ignoring religion?

Enlighten me !

Serious answers needed.

Snoopy,

 

[BlackShanglan]

The Bible does suggest that we owe God faith and that it is one's duty to honor and reverence him. On the other hand, it's also fairly clear about God reserving judgement for himself. Humans are neither required or encouraged to decide for themselves who is going to heaven or to hell. As the apostle Paul reminds us, all human knowledge is fallible. If I'm not mistaken, there are actually only a handful of people that my church regards as definitely in heaven - Jesus, Mary, the thief who was crucified by Jesus. Can't think of any others. Those are the ones that Jesus said were going to heaven. Everyone else is an educated guess. It's not that they think God is particularly punitive or heaven especially empty; they just choose, on the whole, not to speculate on God's judgements. I think that a healthy habit.

Shanglan

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

Hell we all believe different things. I figure there's so much shit going on in life I don't have time to worry about whether God's gonna send me into firey depths when I die.

I love God. If He/She doesn't like it....well...okay I musta done something wrong.

 

[Guest]

 

[dagdag]

It is between you and the god. Who are we do interfere? You might be a better person than most of the believers, who knows...

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Here's how I see it.

If God is just and worthy of devotion then what matters are your works and deeds not your faith. Be a good person and God or whoever will bestow upon you the kingdom of Heaven. Be an asshole and say hello to eternal hellfire. Its the path of Christ not the worship of Christ that matters.

If God is not just and only Christians, regardless of their behavior, get into Heaven, then fuck Him. He is not worthy of any worship or praise at that point. He is an egotistical megalomaniac and there is no worth in trying to get into his Heaven. If he is not just, He lies about Hell and Hell isn't as bad as all that. Besides the company's better.

Why not take Pascal's wager and game the system? Because a deity would be offended by a mortal thinking he can "best" Him by giving Him some lax and pathetic "worship" purely for unenlightened self-interest. If He is just, He'd see this as a point against the person and if He is asshole, then the disgust at the gamble would outweigh the desire for worship and He'd damn you just to show you what He thinks of Mr. Smartiepants.

At least that's my take.

Remember, the point of religion is that it's personal. What do you believe in deep down? Even if it is just ideas such as Eternal Justice, the morality of good deeds, or an after-life. The rest is always just the motions.

That help?

 

[BigAndTall]

If you choose to have a life devoid of following God and his son, than he will respect that and grant you an eternity devoid of him.

Following Christ is not about rules or doing good deeds. Its about a relationship.

If you had a friend that calls you, but you:

never return it, never visited, never did anything with, didn't respect, than is it you or the friend that is turning that relationship off?

 

[BlackShanglan]

If you choose to have a life devoid of following God and his son, than he will respect that and grant you an eternity devoid of him.

Following Christ is not about rules or doing good deeds. Its about a relationship.

If you had a friend that calls you, but you:

never return it, never visited, never did anything with, didn't respect, than is it you or the friend that is turning that relationship off?

Hmmm. Interesting. But God calls us his children, not his friends. I'd argue that that is a tangibly different relationship. Keeping in mind the tale of the prodigal son, one assumes that God is happy to see even the long-delayed and chronically out-of-touch coming home at last.

No?

Shanglan

 

[BigAndTall]

Hmmm. Interesting. But God calls us his children, not his friends. I'd argue that that is a tangibly different relationship. Keeping in mind the tale of the prodigal son, one assumes that God is happy to see even the long-delayed and chronically out-of-touch coming home at last.

No?

Shanglan

So, and I think that is the point of Christ calling for repentance. In the tale of the prodigal son, the son does return. If you outright reject Christ, you never return.


BTW, I need to say, I don't have all the answers. I'd hate to think I sound like that.

 

[Halo_n_horns]

I think you're all over-thinking it. God doesn't believe in atheism.

 

[BlackShanglan]

So, and I think that is the point of Christ calling for repentance. In the tale of the prodigal son, the son does return. If you outright reject Christ, you never return.


BTW, I need to say, I don't have all the answers. I'd hate to think I sound like that.

Agreed, none of us know the answers ... and it's always pleasant wrangling from that point.

For a bizarre hypothetical, suppose that the prodigal son never announced his repentance. He just got killed and his body was shipped home. He had never shown any action indicating that he'd changed his ways.

Think dad would chuck him in the furnace?

I suppose one might ask "how prodigal is prodigal" at that point, and that's fair - but assuming no real malice toward the father, I suppose I imagine that if I was the father, I would think he'd suffered enough.

Shanglan

 

[Honey123]

I come from a very religious family and we are Italian to boot. Not only do we have the fear of God instilled in us at a young age, but we are plagued by the marters in our families.

I went through all the sacraments I could have (obviously I could not become a priest...); I taught catholisism; I was a lector at my church.

But something happened. I don't feel that I lost faith in my God, I just feel that I lost the idea of what God is. I read the Bible in my spare time..yes, my spare time. I wanted to know. I wanted to feel. I wanted to believe that there was a heaven after I died. There was a heaven that all my dead relatives went to. I wanted to believe that there was a reason that my friend was blunged to death and her sicko boyfriend got off.

Doyou know what I believe. I believe that if no one believed that there was a god; that there was nothing to look forward to that there would be chaos. (Yes, I know that there are such things as Holy Wars and that people do this for the love of their God)

Remember, the Bible was written at a time when people were wandering hopelessly about - people needed rules, they needed to live in fear....

I believe that you should pray...but I don't believe that you need to pray in a church...even in the Bible it says that a church is where you make it....I am not quoting mind you...but it's there.

But here is the thing. We all need to believe in something. Whether it's scientific or religious ~ but if you don't hope that there is something else out there when you die or when you have dispare, it makes you feel so small, so alone.

This of course is my own humble opinion.....

Now, of course, Snoop when you said you were an atheisist, I was waiting for you to also add..."Swear to God!"

 

[stingray61]

[

 

[BlackShanglan]

I would point out that the question of whether or not God expects one to go to church has many answers, both personal and dogmatic. As there are many faiths and sects, so obviously there is no one answer to "do I need to go to church," or to any of the other queries.

Shanglan

 

[elsol]

Here's my thoughts on it:

I like the Piers Anthony 'On a Pale Horse' version of God handling atheists.

At death, you don't go to hell or heaven... you simply cease to be.

ElSol

 

[Pure]

One less common answer, with some Biblical and historical backing is that all are saved eventually. Folks like Snoop may have to undergo a bit of post death purification however.

I'm not sure why snoop asks, since s/he believes religions are faulty/mistaken at the foundations. Ergo, what any religion say about a 'non believer' would likely be equally mistaken,m on Snoops analysis.

It's a bit like asking "Would Snoop make a good meal for a bear?"
Well, from the bears point of view...

 

[Kassiana]

I'm a Pagan and I have exactly two beliefs about the afterlife.

1. There is no hell.

2. If there is an afterlife, my Gods will take care of me in it.

That's it. So of course, Snoop, you won't go to hell. There is no such thing. Think about it. If you had a kid you loved, you'd never torture her forever, would you? Of course not. Neither would a God, who's supposed to be far better than we poor humans.

Unless the God of Calvinist Christianity is the One True God, because then God's a jerk.

 

[English Lady]

Oh I only just caught this thread

Now I'm no scholar and I certainly don't know it all but I'll throw mytake into the boiling pot

I do believe that a certain amount of faith is needed for admittance to Heaven (a definite believer in the whole Heaven/Hell thing here) and I'm pretty sure that being an atheist demands that you completely do NOT believe in God.

With me still?right.

Now you say you lost your faith...did you ever believe? I mean truly, honestly, 100% believed in Jesus ,his death and ressurection and all that jazz. If the answer is yes then I believe your faith is not lost butit may just be lapsed. I don't know how God views this but I would guess He's kinda hurt you've turned your back on him.

If younever had the faith and you've completely rejected God then I don't know. Can he save osmeone who doesn't want to be saved? I just don't know.

Ultimately the decision is God's and you're best asking him. Seriously. If you were completely atheistyou wouldn't worry because God doesn't exsist to you right? well if you are worried about your eternal soul. Pray.Just say to God "Hey if you're there are you totally pissed with me or what? Do I have a chance of getting into Heaven?"


Everyone has a chance of Getting into Heaven via The way, the truth and the life. (Jesus)

Anyhow thats my thoughts on things, never hesitate to ask questions. My Pm box is always open! *L*

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

If God is the arbiter of His Creation, and requires faith above all else... then it stands that putting change in the "Save the whales" cup or not stealing candy-bars is not a higher good than believing in and asserting forward the supremacy of God.

Now, does that make him unfair? Maybe, maybe not. It'd be a bit like saying "It's unfair that here in America we don't get to drive on the left side of the street like other nations!" While that may be a problem for an individual, it isn't an essential problem as that's just how the law is established. While preference may take part in our dissatisfaction, our preference for what should is negligable compared to what is.

Is a God that has, in His Creation, suffering a God worthy of worship? That's a harder question. Even existentialist philosophers (whom I have little respect for in general) nod to the fact that Authority really is all that's required for subservience. Which is to say, we don't have to like how things are and we can consider ourselves morally superior to a thing, but if that thing is in absolute authority... our problems are personal and have no real meaning.

God doesn't have to be omnibenevolent to be worthy of worship, essentially... He would just have to be God.

As to the notion of subtractive religious authority... I wouldn't put too much weight in it Snoop. I can think of no time I've ever been convinced of the reasonability of the argument: "I don't believe in X, therefore X doesn't happen".

If X actually does exist (which the argument doesn't address at all), then expecting X to not happen is sort of childish "cover my eyes and don't believe the bee will sting, thus it won't". As long as X is possible, asserting anything other than "X is possible" is weak.

 

[stingray61]

[

 

[rgraham666]

I'm an agnostic. I don't know anything about God.

Believers and atheists are two sides of the same coin. That of faith. Believers say there is a God, Allah to Zeus, take your pick. Atheists say there is no God.

Neither can prove it in a philosophical or scientific manner. God is beyond such merely mortal things. You have to have faith.

A faith I do not have.

I do believe this much. If there is a God, She's not the celestial bully so many make Her out to be.

Hell is a dumb idea. From our point of view, we have free will. From God's we do not. She knows everything. She also has the power to change us if she should wish to. And since She is completely merciful, I can't see her condemning anyone to something as awful as Hell when she knows what is going to happen. If She loves us, knows what's going to happen to us and can change it, sending someone to Hell doesn't make a lot of sense.

But I really have no idea. And I don't care. It's our actions day to day that prove the type of people we are. I don't think God enters into the equation.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I'm surprised at all the Pascal Wagering among the Christian Faithful.

He sent down his son as a big, "well I'm out now, let's do this right, shall we?" His son did only two basic things. He a) did good deeds and b) condemned those who put faith above deeds.

Don't any of you get that the only people who managed to piss off Christ were the Pharisees? Those who had all the petty faith in the world but empathies and souls of pitch.

God doesn't give a damn about your faith. He gave you free will and stayed out of your religions for millennia. Your faith is like piss water to Him. Its how you live your life. Through the PATH of Christ not the meaningless praise of Him.

I'm not even Christian and I get that.

I'm the f-ing devil and I get that.

Lord's Name Taken in Vain, peoples!

Faith more important than Works...Are you that desperate to turn your God into an unfair asshole? What crime against eternal justice did you commit to make that the only thing to get you through the night?

 

[BigAndTall]

I'm surprised at all the Pascal Wagering among the Christian Faithful.

He sent down his son as a big, "well I'm out now, let's do this right, shall we?" His son did only two basic things. He a) did good deeds and b) condemned those who put faith above deeds.

Don't any of you get that the only people who managed to piss off Christ were the Pharisees? Those who had all the petty faith in the world but empathies and souls of pitch.

God doesn't give a damn about your faith. He gave you free will and stayed out of your religions for millennia. Your faith is like piss water to Him. Its how you live your life. Through the PATH of Christ not the meaningless praise of Him.

I'm not even Christian and I get that.

I'm the f-ing devil and I get that.

Lord's Name Taken in Vain, peoples!

Faith more important than Works...Are you that desperate to turn your God into an unfair asshole? What crime against eternal justice did you commit to make that the only thing to get you through the night?

Don't you think your rejection of him kind of invalidates you as an expert?


I need to add to that, cause I am curious why yiou would speak on it if you've rejected it. I was not trying to invalidate your opinion which your free to have.

 

[stingray61]

I'm surprised at all the Pascal Wagering among the Christian Faithful.

He sent down his son as a big, "well I'm out now, let's do this right, shall we?" His son did only two basic things. He a) did good deeds and b) condemned those who put faith above deeds.

Don't any of you get that the only people who managed to piss off Christ were the Pharisees? Those who had all the petty faith in the world but empathies and souls of pitch.

God doesn't give a damn about your faith. He gave you free will and stayed out of your religions for millennia. Your faith is like piss water to Him. Its how you live your life. Through the PATH of Christ not the meaningless praise of Him.

I'm not even Christian and I get that.

I'm the f-ing devil and I get that.

Lord's Name Taken in Vain, peoples!

Faith more important than Works...Are you that desperate to turn your God into an unfair asshole? What crime against eternal justice did you commit to make that the only thing to get you through the night?

TRY THIS......

"Dear sinner, do not make this a difficult matter. There is one simple step between you and Jesus. When you trust Him, everything else is settled, and you have repented, you have come to Christ, you have received Him, you have done everything necessary to be saved. Take the answer in Acts 16:31 at face value: "BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED"! In dozens of Scriptures all through the Bible salvation is promised to those that believe. Read carefully the following Scriptures and see that again and again, many, many times, God has promised all any poor sinner would ever need when he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that BELIEVE on his name."--John 1:12.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."--John 3:14-16.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that BELIEVETH not is condemned already, because he hath not BELIEVED in the name of the only begotten Son of God."--John 3:18.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that BELIEVETH not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."--John 3:36.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and BELIEVETH on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."--John 5:24.

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and BELIEVETH on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."--John 6:40.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that BELIEVETH on me hath everlasting life."--John 6:47.

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever BELIEVETH in him shall receive remission of sins."--Acts 10:43.

"And by him all that BELIEVE are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."--Acts 13:39.

Read again the Scripture we started with:

"What must I do to be saved?"

"BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved."--Acts 16:30, 31.