A question about narration

[Liar]

Help. Woe is me.

I have a problem with a novella I've been working on. It's a really long thing with several chapters, where the framework is a man and a woman sharing a long drive through America, and they entertain each other with stories form their sex lives.

The problem is that I have a hard time juggling the POVs and narration of the stories told. I think too much like a movie, where I can easily do a jump cut from the dramatisation of the story and back to the car. And then back to the story being told again.

Of course, I could just write the individual stories as first person fiction chapters, but then I'd lose the element of being able to have the man and woman interrupt each other with comments and questions.

The other option would be to make the whole episodes as really, really long dialouge lines. But that proved to be quite tedious to read.

I think switching between a third person perspective flashback, and the people in the car actually telling the story, allowed for the most varied and entertaining read.

But perhaps too confusing for the reader? Does anyone here understand what I'm trying for? And if so, how the hell do I go about it without leaving the reader wondering if it is the story about the characters or the story told by the characters they are reading at the moment?

scratching head,
#L

 

[cantdog]

A little divider before and after each piece of story-within-story will do it.

And certainly tell the stories first-person and the narrative car-trip part in third. It really does work.

But do you want to do it? You said it was "too much like a movie," but why would it have to be, and what is wrong with that?

The alternative would be the Scheherazade format.. Each story stands as a tale, a chapter, but each time in the framework (third person, as above) of at least an intro, if not an intro and an after-section. That gives you a perfect reason for interruption and discussion, questions and so on. Which are going to make the story much cooler.

But a simple divider line

____________

or something like it will cause the story to be separate and cause the change to first person and back to be acceptable to the reader.

cantdog

 

[Guest]

Put the narrative in normal fonts and their stories, in first person, in italics. Best way I know to do it.

 

[minsue]

Put the narrative in normal fonts and their stories, in first person, in italics. Best way I know to do it.

Hmmm That would depend on the length of the stories. I go nuts trying to read more than a few lines in italics, possibly because I mentally interpret italics as whispering. The only thing worse is the SHOUTING of all caps.

Yes, I am mad. I know this already.

 

[BlackSnake]

...

But perhaps too confusing for the reader? Does anyone here understand what I'm trying for? And if so, how the hell do I go about it without leaving the reader wondering if it is the story about the characters or the story told by the characters they are reading at the moment?

scratching head,
#L

Just my opinion:

I would right the story in the third person, just as you describe, but when it comes to flashback I would break it up showing the other person's reaction to what is being said and other interruptions to keep the reader clear as to what is actually going on.

 

[Weird Harold]

The other option would be to make the whole episodes as really, really long dialouge lines. But that proved to be quite tedious to read.

Technially, what you describe IS long blocks of dialogue, however you punctuate it.

If you remember to break the narration into paragraphs properly -- no trailing quote mark where the same person continues speaking with a begining quote mark to indicate that it's still the characters literal words in the following paragraph -- I don't particularly find long character narrations hard to read as dialogue.

The only time I find long blocks of dialogue hard to read is if the author feels it necessary to "tag" each pargraph to force a break.

Since you want to provide interruptions, interjections, and questions, from the person the story is being told to, Dialogue is really the best way to handle it. Especialy if the interruptions are going to be fairly frequent.

The best alternative is to write it as flashbacks separated by ellipses (three asterisks or dashes) from the framing story line. Write the "frame" in present tense and the flashbacks in past tense or use first person for the vignettes and third person for the frame (or vice versa.) If you're going to allow the vignettes to be told in large chunks with few interruptions, this is probably the best choice.

 

[Remec]

Haven't looked at the other messages, but you could also take a look at books like the NeverEnding Story and The Princess Bride where there is a story-within-the-story thing working and see what tact was taken there.

Douglas Adams and Neil Gaiman also take that sort of break in the action, but it's within the narrative thread as opposed to someone telling the story within the tale they're writing about.

I'd be more inclined to let the stories being told run a little shorter than a typical chapter might, thus letting the POV shift to the couple more often and questions/comments could make for a mostly dialogue section before entering into the next story to be told. And, perhaps, write up your story section and then read it aloud a few times and see where there might be a natural inclination on the part of the storyteller to pause for breath, or a drink, or a drag on their cigarette...those would be good places to have the other character interject something...

 

[DarkDuchess]

Narratives

Asterisks are great tools. They are easily distinguishable.

Though using the long blocks of dialogue actually aren't bad either, provided you use the proper punctuation to give the reader a breath, or a pause, and add movement from the speaker to remind the reader that your character is still speaking. If you so chose, you could split back and forth between the action of the main characters and those in the story they are telling- it could be a nice contrast.

I personally, would use the asterisks and close the previous paragraph with a sort of leading sentence.

I would not put a great amount text in italics, it gets hard to read if you have been staring at it for awhile.

Sounds like an interesting story!

DD

 

[Liar]

Thanks everyone, you've given me some good food for thought here. Some kind of dividers between the "cuts" might be a possible way to handle it.

The frame story is written in past tense, and I don't think I want to change that - there's a majot bit of plot in that story too, and several chapters where no "car story" is told. I simply don't do present tense well enough to pull it off.

cantdog said:
But do you want to do it? You said it was "too much like a movie," but why would it have to be, and what is wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with that. I want it to feel movie-like. If I can make the reader visualise jump cuts, flashbacks, even voice-overs, where I visualise them, this story will be something I'm really proud of.

Weird Harold said:
Technially, what you describe IS long blocks of dialogue, however you punctuate it.

Not nessecarily, no. What I want to do is to often start a story section with dialouge (or almost-monolouge) of a character telling the story, and them comfortably slip over into a narrator telling the story instead. By switching between those (the narrator doing the mother-load of the telling) I don't need to use the character's laguage and attitude to tell the sub-stories. Now and then I switch out to the car, and the character's voice, when there is need for a subjective reflection or simply a tempo change.

Besides, how do I write a dialouge in the story, if the whole story already is a dialouge? It's IMO not bevievable that a character retells a whole story with every quote that was said correctly. Only an impersonal narrator can pull that off. Or can a character be that good a story-teller, without actually sitting down and writing a book?

#L