A Preponderance of Predators

[cellis]

I am increasingly alarmed at the number of people who post here and discuss obviously abusive relationships. It seems that we are spending more and more time explaining the difference between a Safe, Sane and Consentual relationship and an abusive one.

It was in fact the presence of a predator in my own life that brought me to the old Mother thread. I had been chatting for a couple of days with a dom on alt.com, who after a second chat session began demanding my phone number and that I meet him the next day. I knew that this did not feel right and I was not going for it at all.

It was that very same evening that I received my Lit newsletter featuring the old BDSM thread. I clicked on the link and began to read and when I came to the part about the on-line predator, I knew why it was that I felt so uncomfortable.

I am very concerned when a sub writes that they cannot leave their dom/me because they made a commitment to that person. It makes me wonder what would happen to the person if they were in a 'nilla relationship and their partner told they could not leave. To me it is basically the same difference.

Just because a person is in a BDSM relationship, does not mean that as a sub, they don't have choices and they cannot say "no". I think that it is very important to remember that before the relationship is BDSM, it is first and formost a relationship.

I know that I am on a rant today. I cannot help it. It just plain pisses me off when I hear someone say that they cannot leave a dom/me because they dom/me says so. That is not what this is all about and it makes me angry when I see people using BDSM as an excuse to manipulate and control and abuse people.

(Ok stepping off my soapbox now.)

 

[Shiver]

Here, here!

I've written on this before, but as a Domme myself, I find this sort of abusive behavior disgusting and would like to distance myself completely from people who call themselves Dom/mes but really are completely unconcerned for the health and well-being (physical AND mental) of their subs.

I see the BDSM relationship as just that: a relationship. It's two people exploring their boundaries in a safe environment. If the environment and relationship isn't safe and mutually respectful, the sub will ultimately receive nothing out of it, and what's the point of that?

 

[Ebonyfire]

I agree Cellis

I too find it appalling that many newbies who post here seem to think that submitting to a Dom/me means leaving their civil rights at the door.

First of all, I think it as been post ad nauseum that no one can demand anything of you. You are a free individual who can choose to enter any relationship you want, and by the same token you can choose to leave that relationship when you want to.

Also, just because you meet someone online or in person, you are under no obligation to meet their selfish demands. If a guy or girl demanded your phone number and/or blind obedience at a bar, you would most likely tell them to kiss off.

Why is it people think that BDSM denies you the same right?

Also, why is it so easy for someone to slap the name Dom/me or Master/Mistress on their screen name, and folks just seem to lose their common sense?


Ebony

 

[RisiaSkye]

Amen to all three of you.

But as tiresome as it gets, having to repeatedly explain the difference, imagine what it would be like if there were no one here to tell people what it's really like in a BDSM relationship. Some days, it's just harder than others to do the right thing.

 

[monster666]

Amen to all three of you.

But as tiresome as it gets, having to repeatedly explain the difference, imagine what it would be like if there were no one here to tell people what it's really like in a BDSM relationship. Some days, it's just harder than others to do the right thing.

For many reasons, I feel badly for any victim of abuse.

Risia, the online predator sticky is good, but the title leaves some questions about content. It's evident that newbies don't always read the stickies as a matter of course, particularly if the title doessn't speak to them. I'd like to see stuff like the abuse thread somehow not cycle down, and maybe a sticky like the predator one only in clear, concise verbage encompassing as much predatory and abusive behavior as possible, not just the online variety.

 

[RisiaSkye]

It's a good point you make, Monster. I'll bring it up with the other mods and see what we can come up with. Thanks for the idea.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I've said this before and I imagine that I'll say it again.

BDSM has the misfortune of being something easily pervertable to abuse. It attracts abusers because it is so simple for them to not only perpetrate their abuse, but to get it started in the first place.

Being a submissive on the lookout for a new Dom is one of those highly dangerous things because the ratio of abusers to Doms is higher than in other types of relationships. I'm making an educated guess borne out by intesive reading. A sub can never be too careful. And that bears out in real life, too. Average sexuo-sado killers are well documented to maintain collections of BDSM paraphrenalia, not just the porn.

The 'Net has done a lot of good things for BDSM. It's also done a few not so good things. It's made it readily available to anyone who wants in, good. It's also made it simpler for abusers to connect with victims, particularly new to the lifestyle submissives who don't really understand what being a submissive really is.

The best defense is places like these where new people can come to learn what it really means to be a submissive and what it really means to be a dominant.

It's not just BDSM, though it seems so apparent here, but every single person looking for another to hook up. You just don't know what you're getting, whether you do it face to face or online, until you've got it.

 

[Lancecastor]

Two Cents....

Lifestyle submissives, particularly submissive women (my experience), are, by their nature, very difficult to meet, get to know, etc. unless you are hardwired to a local irl scene. Warning them further away from here and interaction with others is sad for me, though I understand your motivation completely and support same.

Fashionista Subs are, like Weekend "Masters", readily found at most any "dark" nightclub as well as on Lit...but that was always the case...years ago these threads were saying pretty much the same thing as I recall. Thrillseekers and the immature will always go do whatever they perceive as dangerous or edgy, and there's only so much anyone can ever do about that....on that point, the BDSM moderator and helpful user elements of Lit are verrry responsible, I suggest.

Unless you create a differentiated, separate login area for TPE/lifestyle BDSM members (a bad idea, I think), the people using Lit and this area in general will always be quite varied in their outlooks.

Worse things could happen, I suggest. Vive les differences.

As for online predators and rates of physical harm to individuals via connections made online...I think from what I've read that those numbers are pretty low compared to what happens irl. But I hesitate to say that is anything but annecdotal.

Accordingly, I'd think an online primer including pointers to books like The Loving Dominant, etc, might be helpful, along with local resources by region (bookstores, groups) and some information about the more common (vanilla? <teehee>) aspects of BDSM activities and its ranges up to TPE.

Knowledge is power.

Ka-ching...I think that was four cents...cashing out.....

Lance

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Two Cents....

Accordingly, I'd think an online primer including pointers to books like The Loving Dominant, etc, might be helpful, along with local resources by region (bookstores, groups) and some information about the more common (vanilla? <teehee>) aspects of BDSM activities and its ranges up to TPE.

Knowledge is power.

Lance you are right, and in the past, I and others have posted that same quote.

We have also provided reading links and information and booklists, more than once, however

You can lead a horse to water....

Ebony

 

[Ebonyfire]

Ain't that the truth

It's not just BDSM, though it seems so apparent here, but every single person looking for another to hook up. You just don't know what you're getting, whether you do it face to face or online, until you've got it.

That is right on the money.

Ebony

 

[Ebonyfire]

What is interesting

is that in the last few posts we have had from subs who may be in dangerous situations, it seems that they were swept off their feet in speedy situations.

I will never forget what one of the most knowledgable Doms I have hever met told me. He said that any Dom who is not patient with a new sub, does not have that sub's best interests at heart. Speed is not of the essence. A good Dom/me will take the time to get to know the submissive heart he or she has in their hand.

Ebony

 

[Lancecastor]

That's life though, isn't it?

Agreed.....good lovin', like good cookin', takes time....regardless of the flavour.

That being said, our romantic sides and our culture looks for and preaches the "feet sweeping" magic, too.

Trying to explain or caution or advise or warn or cajole or encourage anything when it comes to affairs of the heart is mostly, ultimately, a waste of oxygen.....

Take the Sub at the BBQ where Sub2 had an orgasm...though it was never said, my thoughts at the time rung of a possibity that Sub1 might have been a wee bit heartbroken at the Dom and Sub2 having so much fun....after all, the orgasm was noticed by no-one but Sub1, the Dom and presumably, Sub2...

Maybe all that was heard in that thread was the sound of a breaking heart....

Real people, real feelings, real emotions.

And lots who genuinely care about each other.

I think a predator with enough money to have a 'puter, get online, find Lit, understand it and pass himself off well enough to do real harm to someone with all the checks and balances in place here is a fairly low proabability...at least, I hope.

Lance

 

[cellis]

Re: What is interesting

is that in the last few posts we have had from subs who may be in dangerous situations, it seems that they were swept off their feet in speedy situations.

I will never forget what one of the most knowledgable Doms I have hever met told me. He said that any Dom who is not patient with a new sub, does not have that sub's best interests at heart. Speed is not of the essence. A good Dom/me will take the time to get to know the submissive heart he or she has in their hand.

Ebony

Ebony, that is an excellent point.

I have never felt less than treasured by Himself, even before we met. He never pressured me or threatened me. More than anything He allowed the relationship to move at my pace and always slowed me down when I would have moved too fast.

 

[WriterDom]

As long as there are irresponsible and needy subs, they'll be predators to take advantage of them. I've heard a lot of people talk about instant Masters or Doms, or Sirs, or whatever you put in your name. And that's true, but there are also instant subs. Hopefully they stick around long enough to learn the ropes, but too often, on their second subbie day, they meet someone in a chatroom, and a romance begins. Within a week, he is her "Master" and she must do this, and not do this, when in reality, she knows more about a space shuttle engine than she knows about him.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Another excellent point,

As long as there are irresponsible and needy subs, they'll be predators to take advantage of them. I've heard a lot of people talk about instant Masters or Doms, or Sirs, or whatever you put in your name. And that's true, but there are also instant subs.
Hopefully they stick around long enough to learn the ropes, but too often, on their second subbie day, they meet someone in a chatroom, and a romance begins. Within a week, he is her "Master" and she must do this, and not do this, when in reality, she knows more about a space shuttle engine than she knows about him.

You are so correct! My statement on Dom/mes also applies to subs too. No quality submissive will offer their gift to just anyone who sweeps them off their feet with pretty words,spinning tales of ropes, whips and instant sexual ecstacies to come. Get to know who you are as a submissive, and what that really means before kneeling at the feet of some schmuck.

What is the hurry, is there a fire? You had better know whom you are dealing with, and WHAT you are dealing with before letting him or her tie you to that bed.

Ebony

 

[Kieranhalcyon]

stickys

I dont mind admitting I'm a newbie, after reading the posts on this thread i followed the advice and looked up the stickys at the top, i found that they were confusing and didn't know where to start looking in them for guidelines/ advice.

Maybe a page from the editors of the site would be a usefull insight into the does and donts of how to get start and what you can and can't do on a messageboard

 

[KillerMuffin]

That's an interesting point, Keiran. I don't mod here and I'm not into BDSM per se. However, my opinion, totally unstated prior to this, is that there are too many stickies. The only one likely to be read is the first one.

There should only be one.

Clearly stated, enumerated forum rules. This is what you cannot do. This is what happens if you do what you cannot do.

Welcome to the board.

But that's me, not necessarily the views of the people who actually call this forum their home on the 'Net.

 

[RisiaSkye]

One group says there are too many stickies.
Another says there are too few.

Good luck pleasing everyone.

 

[monster666]

Sorry for stirring the nest up.

One group says there are too many stickies.
Another says there are too few.

Good luck pleasing everyone.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Sorry for stirring the nest up.

No need to be sorry. And you're not the first to suggest more stickies--just the first this week. C'est la vie--there's no pleasing everyone, no matter what.

 

[cymbidia]

Just relax about the stickies.
We're mulling it over.



And for new people?
Read and watch for a few days without posting. Ger some sense of how we interact and the kind of place this is. Try posting (in another forum) in a TEST way, just to check out how it feels.

It's pretty easy once you get started. Honest.

 

[Guru]

 

[Ebonyfire]

So true

No need to be sorry. And you're not the first to suggest more stickies--just the first this week. C'est la vie--there's no pleasing everyone, no matter what.

You can't please everyone. The bottomline is that folks want their answers easy and quick. The news flash is this. You have to do your research. The threads are not that bad, but you have to be willing to take the time and look for the answers you need.

In other words, take your time. There is no easy way to get the information you need. Do the research.

Besides it is a fascinating read. If you do not want to read the stickies then get one of the books that is mentioned in one of the threads.

Ebony <Who is still reading>

 

[cymbidia]

We're still talking it over, sorta.

I'm going on vacation tomorrow and will out of computer range until next Monday sometime. R has a *lot* going on in her life right now, too - and she's kinda burned out doing the moderating thing for the moment, too. It's been a little rough around here lately, boys and girls. WD, well. WD is WD.

The stickies situation is currently sitting like this (as far as i know):

1. We leave it as it is.

2. We write a pithy and to-the-point sticky, just one, that encapsulates the forum rules and a bit of our culture. It'll be written by The BDSM Forum community or some such pretend entity. In it, we'll link the three current stickies and the mother thread.

What do you think?

Suggestions?

Comments?

Swear words?

 

[monster666]

I really like option 2, I really do. Especially the pithy part.

I regret being part of the rough stuff. I am working on a being a kinder, more gentle monster.

We're still talking it over, sorta.

I'm going on vacation tomorrow and will out of computer range until next Monday sometime. R has a *lot* going on in her life right now, too - and she's kinda burned out doing the moderating thing for the moment, too. It's been a little rough around here lately, boys and girls. WD, well. WD is WD.

The stickies situation is currently sitting like this (as far as i know):

1. We leave it as it is.

2. We write a pithy and to-the-point sticky, just one, that encapsulates the forum rules and a bit of our culture. It'll be written by The BDSM Forum community or some such pretend entity. In it, we'll link the three current stickies and the mother thread.

What do you think?

Suggestions?

Comments?

Swear words?