A Polite Rant: your feedback is requested

[daughter]

Poets--

I realize that approval is not your primary concern. However, you have expressed an interest in being heard. Some of the things cited in feedback are repeated.

Instead of waiting for someone to say something for the upteenth time, I thought perhaps we could collect general concerns or complaints in a central location.

Please list some of the things that make you yawn, sigh, roll your eyes to the back of your head.

Please do your best to explain why you dislike seeing 'x' in a poem. The idea here is to provide poets with some insight about what isn't working in their poetry.

Thanks for contributing.

Peace,

daughter

 

[perks]

rhyming for the sake of rhyme.

the oh ...I'm writing poetry therefore I must only rhyme disease...ruining the imagery for the sake of the rhyme.

when cadence suffers because of rhyme

when imagery suffers because of rhyme

what I do love about rhyme..is being suprised by it....that the imagery is so vivid and bold....the way the vocabulary trips off my tongue....I'm halfway through the poem before I realize it is a rhyme scheme.

exception to this rule....wicked eve's bop bop bop...that was fucking genius.

perks

 

[*ladylove*]

when the rhythm of the poem is interrupted.

ie. it flows well except for one stanza or even one line.

read it aloud to youself, and if you can, have someone else read it to you. A random collection of thoughts is not a poem. Not to me anyhow.

 

[daughter]

tell it, ladies

Ah, it's getting good.

((d nodding))

sometimes it is better to here it from someone else


Peace,

daughter

 

[Bitch Boy]

As someone who has submitted quite a bit of poetry recently, I am interested in what the perception of the poetry section is by other writers (I tend to think authors is a bit pretentious at this level of publication).

Do those writers who do not write poetry think it is a superfluous medium, particularly for this site?

Do they find the submissions to be particularly untalented (given this thread)?

The common problems poetry experiences from my point of view, are:

-with rhyming poetry-

* the rhyme being treated as more important than the meaning of the words,

* the message that the poem is supposed to be conveying, being unclear (excused by some as part of their creativity).

-with non rhyming poetry-

* the rhythm of the words throwing the reader 'out' of the poem,

* the addition of new words to the english language in the name of creative expression.

There are many more, as there are when writing a story, but I have limited time here, so...

 

[garyblue]

Poets--

<snip>
Please do your best to explain why you dislike seeing 'x' in a poem. The idea here is to provide poets with some insight about what isn't working in their poetry.

Thanks for contributing.

Peace,

daughter

Where do we start? Let's start with me changing into track shoes. I am certain that I will soon feel the cold reptilian breath on the nape of my neck and the the burn on my buttocks from the acidic venom dripping from the brandished fangs of angry poets.

Funky screwed up prose--Saying your piece with backward or pureed syntax, breaking it into strange lines to limn your images, using no punctuation, or using what you have screwily is not poetry; it is funky screwed up prose. If your style is meant to be free or blank verse (and I have no clue what the difference is), you've chosen a style that fools you into thinking you can just pour your heart out and make poetry. First of all, pouring your heart out, sans a properly structured container to hold it, just makes a pile in the middle of the room. If you don't think free or blank verse or whatever is structured, really, really read Cummings and Eliot. I can't define the structure, but it's sure as hell there.

As an aside, I think it was KM who posted part of a short story or some bit of prose broken into `poetic' lines. I'm pretty sure she was being facetious--gawd, I hope she was being facetious, because it was a hoot.

Bad or forced rhyme--You know why I don't like forced rhyme? It's not because it shoots the wheels off your wagon, or that it causes the rhythm to fail. It's because the poet was too lazy to edit, rewrite, mull over, or just plain dump a bad start. I love rhyme. The limerick is high art form from the standpoint of actually using the rhyme to control the poem, and the lengths the writer has to travel maintaining the form.

Can't be read aloud--As far as I'm concerned, any poem should be recitable. The sine qua non of poetry is the power of the spoken word. Maya Angelou is a poet. Her stuff is politically correct, trite, and hackneyed, but oh the power of recital. The sound of her poetry will lift you. If a poem fails orally, it fails. The writer has failed to find the right word or turn of phrase.

What do I hate to see in a poem? A lazy writer. I don't give a rat's rear end about how much `soul' the writer put into the work. I do care that the words flow and have a certain rhythm. I care that I can read aloud and hear the poem. I care that I want to memorize a stanza or more and recite just for the pleasure of saying the words.

Can anyone imagine trying to get a musical gig and telling the conductor "I can't be bothered learning an instrument--it would only restrict my style. I have music in my soul." Or, "I can't be bothered to practise or rehearse, that would take the life from my music." Yet we have would be poets on this forum who have said just that. I'm telling you, friends, we got trouble--right here in River City. It starts with `P' and that stands for poet and don't rhyme with `L' and that stands for lazy.

And that's what I don't like.

g

 

[JUDO]

License

Every artist throughout history is remembered by their "best" work. It may be a period or a couple of pieces, but always it's a dismal small package compared to the extent of work created during their lifetimes.

We artists have a license to fail and we do it often, so I don't have a problem with artists whose creation "misses."

Often, identifying the miss can mislead as much as not identifying the miss.

Just realize that most of the time when any artist creates, they are hacking their way to that piece by which they will be remembered.

If it happens early in their career-not to worry, there's always "re-invention."

 

[daughter]

LMBAO and applauding

gary, look out! duck!!!

I started to quote my favorite parts, but it's all good. Just one:

Can anyone imagine trying to get a musical gig and telling the conductor "I can't be bothered learning an instrument--it would only restrict my style. I have music in my soul." Or, "I can't be bothered to practise or rehearse, that would take the life from my music." Yet we have would be poets on this forum who have said just that. I'm telling you, friends, we got trouble--right here in River City. It starts with `P' and that stands for poet and don't rhyme with `L' and that stands for lazy.

Amen from the choir, brotha. Soooooooooooo, wanna meet me for coffee and a little poetry?

Now you know why I haven't posted anything new. I know better than to knowingly put up stuff I no ain't right. I have works posted here that need work already. There's no need for me to post more till I've addressed some issues.

gary, critique me anytime. perky has, and I love her for it. Good feedback, man.

Peace,

daughter

 

[TheDR4KE]

Judo is quite right -- failures are an excellent thing to learn from, and we should not be afraid of having those on display. You will always improve and you may already see that the poem in your notepad isn't as good as you will be able to do in a few weeks even. Post it anyway. Who cares what other's think about it.

As to writing without learning ... One school says that we should follow the forms until we can throw them away. Once you get your black belt you really start to learn martial arts. The structure in Cummings work comes from his being in touch with language and his imagination. Picasso's later works aren't as easily understood as his earlier works, but once you learn about art you'll see that they are just as well crafted (more, really) even if you don't _enjoy_ modern/cubist/etc art.

But to refine yourself so that you overcome the programming of your upbringing, you need to purge. Let the crap flow out. That's the big reason failure is so important I think. Not for what we learn from it, but for what we've managed to let go through it. And you can learn so much about a poet from a bad poem. Where are they at internally? How much sugar or bitterness are they currently focused on? It's like your tastebuds -- they develop over time. Kalamata olives are great, but so is bubblegum icecream - at different times of your life.

I guess the only thing that I don't like is when people don't want to grow. But that is also something transient. Eventually pressure builds up and they will break down or break through.

Hmm ... I think I might close with a bit of Shelley

The Drake

Ozymandias
- Percy Bysshe Shelley

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

 

[Whispersecret]

What a great thread. I agree with everything that's been said.

I dislike poetry that has no imagery or that fails to make me feel, see, hear, taste, smell something.

I dislike poetry with vocabulary and structure so simple, it seems as though a third grader wrote it or as though it was meant for a third grader to read. (That is not to say that simple language makes a bad poem.)

I abhor forced rhyme. I can't say this enough.

I hate reading a poem that was meant to communicate some deep soulful agony, but that only makes me roll my eyes and say to myself, "Christ. Did this person write this in high school after their first break up?"

I admit that I don't know that much about poetic structure, but I think I can tell when it's not there. Like, Gary said so concisely, it's when the words are all dumped in a pile, and I don't like it. It's as if some people think that if they omit all the punctuation and capitalization, cut the lines in strange places, and slap a title on it, it's poetry. Well, it ain't, folks.

 

[perks]

gary is so on target..I'm in love with his structure.

and am so thankful for it< feel like a teenager with boundaries>

 

[JUDO]

Renoir

Drake-

A good friend of mine keeps pounding this into my head (and I think it's starting to sink in).

That which does not work will always show you what does. - Jean Renoir

Thanks.

 

[Unmasked Poet]

No meat left on the Carcass for me!

 

[TheDR4KE]

Re: No meat left on the Carcass for me!

No meat left on the Carcass for me!

Hahahaha. Poor UP. But that was funny.

[whispers to UP: psst ... no one seems to have mentioned clichés yet ]



Drake

 

[Silentbob]

In my entire life. I have only done one poem in which I feel was "free verse."

From this day, it's one of the poems I actually like (though everyone hates the abrupt ending).

I'll admit. I like poetry that rhymes. I write poetry that rhymes, but to me, poetry is all about trial and error and finding your own style. If something is "funky" it might ment to be funky. but to me, out of everything in poetry. The thing that I look for the most is cadence. I remember reading this poem. It was a LONG poem. It was a good poem too, but one part of the poem didn't have a right cadence to the rest of the poem and it threw it all off. Thankfully the Writer didn't jump down my throat about how I was "ruining his masterpiece" and agreed. Rythem to me is what I look for in poetry. Maybe that's why I liked the one piece I wrote, the Rythem.

And why is it that everyone else seems to be able to post more then 250000 characters and I CAN'T!

 

[alice]

would like to see more new poems

on the toplist. I'm a reader. I'm one of those who checks out the toplist to find new reads. This is the only site I know where there's so little variety on the list.

Not arguing that just anything should be up there, but many poems on that list have been there so long, I don't care if they're good or popular. I want to see something different.

alice

 

[WickedEve]

alice

Not arguing that just anything should be up there, but many poems on that list have been there so long, I don't care if they're good or popular. I want to see something different.

I do agree that some poems sit there forever and over-stay their welcome. There are several threads on this board that call attention to new poems and poets. That helps to get new poems noticed and voted onto the top list.

As far as what I don't like in a poem: sentimentality and bland imagery. And unless it's an excellent poem, I prefer not to read poems that are too long. I know some poets believe that they need to use each and every word to allow their creation to live, but in some cases it would be best to leave off that extra hand or head, so they don't let a monster loose on the unsuspecting villagers... I mean readers.

 

[Jazzy2]

I'm rarely polite

Look. Don't throw words together that you think sound pretty or profound and expect it to fly. I want rhymth and not kiddie rhyme.

Don't give me five words when one would do it if you gave it some thought. Be real. Suspend reality is cool but if you talk like you're tryin' to be poetic you're only gonna make me gag.

Can you say CLICHE?!!! Please, if I see 'soul' 'passion' 'lust' 'bliss' again I am going to throw up for real. The hot word box got a lot of words folks. Dig.

Jazzy2