A piece of political erotica looking for feedback

[ChloeTzang]

A while ago, Carnal Flower opened a thread on Political Erotica over on the Author's Hangout Board and suggested a (fun) challenge, in any category, of erotica with an overt political theme? The intent I think was more aimed at our current politics but given the controversial nature of that, Laurel has, I think, advised that we are to stay away from current politics given the - ahem - disagreements that can arise.

So I thought Carnal Flower's suggestion was a great idea (I know, but it was) and I had a stab at a piece of political erotica myself, while steering well away from current american politics and writing about the third world sexual exploitation of women.

So here you go. Absent the usual vitriol and prejudice I happily spout, here's my contribution to Political Erotica. Please do take a look. Feedback. Comments. Judgement. All welcomed ...

"Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?" - Can a Thai Girl and a Farang Find Love?

I'm not guaranteeing you'll enjoy it, but I do hope it drives the point home in a way that's entertaining and though provoking and I'd really like to know if you think I managed what I was aiming to do. Love to know what all of you here think of this one.

 

[Bramblethorn]

TBH, if you hadn't introduced it as such, I wouldn't have thought of this one as "political erotica".

AFAICT the main message here was that sex work is tough, and customers are often dishonest jerks. I think most sex workers and people of almost every political stripe would agree with that. There's plenty of political debate on what we should do about this fact, but the story didn't really get into that.

I'm not saying it should have gotten into those aspects; just that without something along those lines, it doesn't strike me as being particularly political.

Put it this way - I would have to work pretty hard to find something in this story to disagree with, and you know how much I agree with you on politics...

 

[ChloeTzang]

TBH, if you hadn't introduced it as such, I wouldn't have thought of this one as "political erotica".

AFAICT the main message here was that sex work is tough, and customers are often dishonest jerks. I think most sex workers and people of almost every political stripe would agree with that. There's plenty of political debate on what we should do about this fact, but the story didn't really get into that.

I'm not saying it should have gotten into those aspects; just that without something along those lines, it doesn't strike me as being particularly political.

Put it this way - I would have to work pretty hard to find something in this story to disagree with, and you know how much I agree with you on politics...

Lol. Yep, that agreement on politics .... but really, I was trying to stay away from an overt political statement and go with that underlying theme of the sexual exploitation of women in places like Thailand, and how it impacts at an individual level. And the "you" was pretty much aimed at male readers coz the sex industry is pretty one sided in terms of supplier / customer.

 

[AwkwardMD]

So there are two big components to being an author; Writing and Storytelling.

Writing is the easy part, so I’ll start there. Writing is your biggest weakness. Sentence fragments, sentence run-ons. Repetitive phrasing. Now, these are tools that many authors, including myself, use to help set mood or establish tone. I think that’s largely what you’re going for, but you’re overusing all of them and that takes away their impact.

You’ve also got some inconsistent narration where it’s sometimes present tense and sometimes past tense. I do this. I did that. It’s one thing to fix that in editing, but I think you would be well served to make hard decisions for yourself before you start a piece saying “Ok. This is going to be in First person, and it’s going to be present tense.”

From a storytelling standpoint, this is really fantastic.

I appreciate attempting to approach a First Person/Second Person hybrid style, but I think it was a mistake in this situation. The story works because it continues after “I” leave and “You’re” still there, but how am “I” supposed to be listening then? It tugs at the heart strings, but it also strains my suspension of disbelief. You’re in a catch 22. You should only include “Me” if "I" am there for the whole story.

I felt like there was some inconsistent characterization. The protagonist is utterly overwhelmed by her john. She is barely holding off being head over heels for him. She’s afraid he’s going to say it (I love you), and when he does, she can’t help but fall and fall hard. That is painfully gorgeous and absolutely heart-wrenching…

...but then when she’s talking to her dad later, she describes herself, in comparison to her sister, as much less romantic and more level-headed. That’s not who we saw in the beginning. We saw a full-blown romantic. It’s hard to tell how much of that is the protagonist lying to themselves and how much of it is you, Chloe, writing the character differently from page to page.

The first half of the first page was a little overly dramatic. I was shocked when the moment came in the story when I realized that penetration hadn’t happened yet because she was already writhing and moaning and oh I’ve never felt this way, and I love what you do to my body. It felt like watching lesbian porn, and the two women are tribbing and can’t stop whimpering at the top of their lungs. It doesn’t feel that good. I could see if she was putting on a show for the john, but this was her internal narrative that was so flowery. That’s disingenuous.

I loved the protagonist’s narrative after her john left. The heartbreak. The way she drifts home, and then back to work the next day. I love the way you colored her world. I loved how we could see the level to which she is jaded rising slowly.

***I did have one big correction for you, and that is that Whiskey Dick does not work like you think it does. Whiskey Dick is not a good thing. It is alcohol-related erectile dysfunction. Heavy drinking doesn’t lower the libido or the ability to orgasm, but it does affect the ability of the penis to become hard enough for extended penetration, or any penetration at all.***

I loved the main character. I loved that she was flawed. I loved the setting. I loved the plot. I loved the ending, with the guy from San Fransisco, and the feeling that it was all just going to repeat for her. That the wheel would keep turning, breaking her down a little more with every rotation. It was honest and brutal, and it hit home for me. I had feels. You should be really proud of this piece.

 

[Comentarista82]

“Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?”

“You face is transparent, your enjoyment, your pleasure at the sight of me, it's tangible. Physical.”

--”Your face…”

You excel at minutely describing every sexual sensation from her point of view; it’s very erotic, detailed, sensory and intimate. Some authors skimp on this but you really begin and deepen the bond with each sentence.

“Banging on the wall. It doesn't matter. The walls are solid concrete. Thick and soundproof.”

Fragmenting the sentences matches the way he hammers her physically and emotionally and I think it’s a wonderful device--however, be careful it’s not overused so the story doesn’t take on a fragmented feel.

You relay the sense this farang (Thai for “white/European foreigner”) only uses her for his pleasure, although the novelty is she wishes to please him and you reveal this to us, although just midway down page 1 I already start feeling sorry for her because of how this will likely end.

"Okay," I gasp, my heart pounding as you peel the condom of your cock.

“...off your cock.”

Interesting how you contrast him starting gentle and then using her when you paint her thinking that when she was interrupted making breakfast.

You hit us right between the eyes with his denials once he sobers in the morning and it hurts to read her thoughts and reactions. How sad! Even though I’m a fellow resident of the state this fictional character is, I’d want to hunt him down for using her like that. What a bastard! It even makes me wonder if this reflects how most Thai females view American males. Your story comments about the Thai social life from her standpoint, of earning more money than her dad in a month, and doing this to invest to help the family and especially her sister to go to school. Wow.

Your story led me to look up several of the references, like yaa-baa which was methamphetamine.

This hits a reader right between the eyes and despite it being erotica and fiction, it damn sure sounds real in so many ways I’ve mentioned. What a terrible existence to live, day after day! Good writing describes but great writing involves us far more. You succeeded in so many ways that this is a hands-down 5 in my book. Well done.

 

[CyranoJ]

I'm not gonna lie. The prospect of "political erotica" from your particular pen did not entice me, but other comments here persuaded me to give it a chance.

That said: yes, the kind of "politics" you addressed here really does transcend certain boundaries. I'm impressed by that, and I'm also impressed, as I usually am, by your craftsmanship. Use of second person in a story like this is a huge ask of the reader, but you manage to make it work and make it genuinely hot; I can't find a way in to the "farang" asshole around whom the main encounter revolves, but I don't have to, it's really about how the main character perceives him and that aspect of it is very well calibrated.

Pace DrAwkward, I think you're using unusual conventions effectively, like someone who knows enough about the "rules" of prose fiction to know how and when to "break" them. I would have liked to see a full follow-up erotic set-piece to counterbalance the counterfeit romanticism of the opener, and wanting there to be more of a story is the biggest compliment I can pay to a piece of writing.

All in all I think it was well done. Five-starred it and put up an edit of this comment over yonder. Keep up the good work.

 

[sr71plt]

I've just written one set in the closed world of a conservative think tank where the behavior is hypocritical and could, I guess be read as a criticism of this hypocrisy, but it won't post here for at least six months. I didn't write it as a political piece, but maybe it will be rejected here as being one.

 

[CyranoJ]

I've just written one set in the closed world of a conservative think tank where the behavior is hypocritical and could, I guess be read as a criticism of this hypocrisy, but it won't post here for at least six months. I didn't write it as a political piece, but maybe it will be rejected here as being one.

I hope not. Sounds interesting.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I guess be read as a criticism of this hypocrisy, but it won't post here for at least six months. I didn't write it as a political piece, but maybe it will be rejected here as being one.

What is the this in that sentence.

 

[CyranoJ]

What is the this in that sentence.

The aforementioned behaviour in the conservative think-tank world that is hypocritical, I take it.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I don't know how I misread his post so badly as to not see that. Like, it's obvious that's what he means. I'm just stoopid today.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I'm not gonna lie. The prospect of "political erotica" from your particular pen did not entice me, but other comments here persuaded me to give it a chance.

That said: yes, the kind of "politics" you addressed here really does transcend certain boundaries. I'm impressed by that.... .

Thank you for both the benefit of the doubt and taking the time to read and comment, Cyrano. I have to say I deliberately stayed away from American politics and any overt political statements precisely because I didn't want to create that sort of anatagonist situation where readers found themselves annoyed by the political statements. So there I'm happy. On the other hand I did think about the male readers who'd been to Bangkok who might be offended or antagonized by the story and there I went down the what the heck path. So I can kind of see the reaction in the ratings as it bounces around between the 4.x and the 3.x - interesting to say the least.

Have to say, I wrote the first person / second person mix off the top of my head and it was only when I came back to edit it that I realized what I'd done. It was kind of intending to get into the male readers head with that one. Kind of like every guys fantasy is those hot Thai bargirls, but what about the girls themselves? What's it like for them? I was hoping I managed to convey some of that.

 

[CyranoJ]

Well, I can report that Thai bar girls aren't "every guy's fantasy," it might be a farang thing. (If you're someone who's aware of sex tourism more generally the topic is mostly depressing.) And I'm sure that for people who are actual farang there's some added piquancy one way or the other; "the other" presumably being the offended low-scorers.

But it's good that you managed to frame it, accidentally or not, in such a way that it can work beyond those parameters too.

 

[CyranoJ]

I don't know how I misread his post so badly as to not see that. Like, it's obvious that's what he means. I'm just stoopid today.

Happens to the best of us.

 

[AwkwardMD]

... but what about the girls themselves? What's it like for them? I was hoping I managed to convey some of that.

Nailed this.

 

[CyranoJ]

Nailed this.

Agreed.

 

[Dream_Operator]

"Oh," I sob. "Oh ... oh ... oh ... so big ... so big..."

You way overuse ellipses. It's annoying and distracting.

 

[CyranoJ]

Maybe that's part of why I like Chloe's style so much. I have the same propensity for overusing ellipsis.

*Looks stern* But don't do that, Chloe. It's wrong.

https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/a7NGGLuAIV3iwjEd0jQacsf6nbY/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2016/03/15/856/n/1922398/f10e1e7d9d6aa80a_i19/i/Caressing-His-Salt-Pepper-Beard-Key-Happy-Life.gif

 

[ChloeTzang]

Maybe that's part of why I like Chloe's style so much. I have the same propensity for overusing ellipsis.

*Looks stern* But don't do that, Chloe. It's wrong.

Hmm. Chloe thinks ... and thinks ... and says "ohh ... ohh no ... noooo....noooooo." LOL. Okay, I do have a terrible propensity for them in dialog. I shall look into that coz I hate to annoy readers. At least, by accident anyhow.

 

[AwkwardMD]

"Oh," I sob. "Oh ... oh ... oh ... so big ... so big..."

You way overuse ellipses. It's annoying and distracting.

The ellispses are in the characters dialogue. Not in the narrative. This isn't a writing flaw, it's a character trait and part of the narrators attempt to woo and charm the john.

It's one thing to say "Yes, don't overuse ellipses", but it's quite another criticise the speech pattern of a character because now you're getting into a very different and more complex conversation.

 

[Dream_Operator]

The ellispses are in the characters dialogue. Not in the narrative. This isn't a writing flaw, it's a character trait and part of the narrators attempt to woo and charm the john.

It's one thing to say Yes, don't overuse ellipses", but it's quite another criticise the speech pattern of a character because now you're getting into a very different and more complex conversation.

Then the character trait seems to be a speech impediment. There 64 ellipses on the first page alone.

It's poor writing. Don't shoot the messenger. I was just trying to provide some feedback which is what the OP requested.

 

[CyranoJ]

Don't shoot the messenger.

https://m.popkey.co/875ce4/9MqEv.gif

"Yeah, that's what I thought!"

SRSLY, it's a valid point. There's probably another way to convey at least some of what's going on there.

 

[DrDelirium]

Hmm. Chloe thinks ... and thinks ... and says "ohh ... ohh no ... noooo....noooooo." LOL. Okay, I do have a terrible propensity for them in dialog. I shall look into that coz I hate to annoy readers. At least, by accident anyhow.

Yeah, fuck that shit. Ellipses in dialogue are a way of pacing it. "ohh. ohh no. nooo. noooooo." just doesn't read like actual dialogue. It reads like somebody cold-reading a script really badly, or a satire of a bad phone sex operator.

 

[Dream_Operator]

Yeah, fuck that shit. Ellipses in dialogue are a way of pacing it. "ohh. ohh no. nooo. noooooo." just doesn't read like actual dialogue. It reads like somebody cold-reading a script really badly, or a satire of a bad phone sex operator.

I don't think you understand the meaning and usage of ellipses, or what a sentence fragment is.

A lot of people seem to think an ellipse represents a dramatic pause -- it doesn't.

Didn't realize my comment would open up such a can of worms. Who knew.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I don't think you understand the meaning and usage of ellipses, or what a sentence fragment is.

A lot of people seem to think an ellipse represents a dramatic pause -- it doesn't.

Didn't realize my comment would open up such a can of worms. Who knew.

It's feedback for the purposes of improvement.

Go on. What is an ellipses for?