A new and different story rating oddity

[MetaBob]

My experience in seeing stories rated seems somewhat different than others here; my stories tend to come out of the gate with a high rating (one of my stories received 5-stars for all of its first 10 ratings) before getting knocked down by one-star bombs, usually 2-4 of them, which is enough to knock those stories out of "Hot" territory. Then the average rating creeps back up.

I imagine this is because a few people don't seem to like the fact that I write strong female characters who have agency in their sex-related decisions.

I have resorted to waiting for that 10th rating to come in and then turning off rating for that story, thus keeping the "Hot" rating forevermore, since people no longer have the opportunity to vote on it.

Now for the "new and different" part: one of my stories, that I'd locked up in "Hot" territory after 13 ratings, somehow lost its "Hot" tag. When I restored the ability to rate this story, its rating appears as "null/13".

Are these new glitches, or have others also observed them?

 

[ElectricBlue]

My experience in seeing stories rated seems somewhat different than others here; my stories tend to come out of the gate with a high rating (one of my stories received 5-stars for all of its first 10 ratings) before getting knocked down by one-star bombs, usually 2-4 of them, which is enough to knock those stories out of "Hot" territory. Then the average rating creeps back up.

I imagine this is because a few people don't seem to like the fact that I write strong female characters who have agency in their sex-related decisions.

I have resorted to waiting for that 10th rating to come in and then turning off rating for that story, thus keeping the "Hot" rating forevermore, since people no longer have the opportunity to vote on it.

Now for the "new and different" part: one of my stories, that I'd locked up in "Hot" territory after 13 ratings, somehow lost its "Hot" tag. When I restored the ability to rate this story, its rating appears as "null/13".

Probably because a sweep stripped out some of the scores within the lock-out and you went below the Red H criteria and the maths-bot lost the plot - all those low bombs you mention, being stripped out, and maybe some of the fives. When you opened it up again, the bot probably started a new count.

That's faking it though, locking down a Red H based on the minimum number of votes. That's not a "genuine" rating - you need to wait at least a month and a sweep or two to know what readers really think about a story.

 

[MetaBob]

Probably because a sweep stripped out some of the scores within the lock-out and you went below the Red H criteria and the maths-bot lost the plot - all those low bombs you mention, being stripped out, and maybe some of the fives. When you opened it up again, the bot probably started a new count.

This is kinda what I'd theorized, except that in this case the swept votes occurred more than 4 months previous, surviving many prior sweeps. The number of votes was also preserved, just not the ratings that came with them. I know I've also lost at least one 5-star rating to a sweep -- the reader contacted me privately, I saw the effect of his rating on the overall average in real time, and a few hours later his vote disappeared, the overall average dropping proportionately.

That's faking it though, locking down a Red H based on the minimum number of votes. That's not a "genuine" rating - you need to wait at least a month and a sweep or two to know what readers really think about a story.

Oh, I already have a pretty good idea what readers think of my stories ... my ratings are pretty consistent, and follow a consistent temporal pattern: the initial spike in high ratings followed shortly thereafter by one-star bombing, followed by a slow creep back up, that's all par for the course for me. It's to the point where it's not really my writing being "genuinely" evaluated, instead it's the hot buttons for a few opinionated readers who dislike stories with strong female characters. Getting enough ratings for what you describe as getting "to know what readers really think about a story" has only happened with one of mine, the one story I entered into a contest, and the ratings for that story followed the same pattern as the others: initially high, slammed way down, then creeping up, in this case to the 4.63 rating that story currently enjoys despite getting hit by several 1-star votes in the last hour of that contest.

I'd just as soon not indulge a few negative readers by allowing them to rate my stories low while they're new, thus discouraging a wider audience from seeing them and getting their own say.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Oh, I already have a pretty good idea what readers think of my stories ... my ratings are pretty consistent, and follow a consistent temporal pattern: the initial spike in high ratings followed shortly thereafter by one-star bombing, followed by a slow creep back up, that's all par for the course for me. It's to the point where it's not really my writing being "genuinely" evaluated, instead it's the hot buttons for a few opinionated readers who dislike stories with strong female characters. Getting enough ratings for what you describe as getting "to know what readers really think about a story" has only happened with one of mine, the one story I entered into a contest, and the ratings for that story followed the same pattern as the others: initially high, slammed way down, then creeping up, in this case to the 4.63 rating that story currently enjoys despite getting hit by several 1-star votes in the last hour of that contest.

I'd just as soon not indulge a few negative readers by allowing them to rate my stories low while they're new, thus discouraging a wider audience from seeing them and getting their own say.

Dare I guess the category without going to see?

All of my stories feature strong, confident women who go get what they want - but I suspect we're in different categories .

 

[lovecraft68]

Dare I guess the category without going to see?

All of my stories feature strong, confident women who go get what they want - but I suspect we're in different categories .

Nope, I went and looked

Mostly BDSM...which in real life has no issue with strong women(duh dominatrix femdom) and maybe up until a few years ago it was fine here

But that category has slid into a muck of non con that doesn't belong there, and it seems to have drawn a type of LW style troll that comes there to read about women being controlled(as those bitches should be!) so when they find a dominant female its roast time.

Its sad to see how BDSM not just here but on a lot of pay sites(checkn out SW) has devolved into a place to for NC/rape authors to slip it past the TOS of sites that won't allow actual non con or worse, people who thanks to the aforementioned group think that's what BDSM is supposed to be.

 

[MetaBob]

Dare I guess the category without going to see?

All of my stories feature strong, confident women who go get what they want - but I suspect we're in different categories .

The category for this particular chapter of this particular story is BDSM (FFm).

Interestingly, after a day or so, the ratings for this story have reappeared, perhaps helping to explain this glitch as temporary.

 

[SamScribble]

My experience in seeing stories rated seems somewhat different than others here; my stories tend to come out of the gate with a high rating (one of my stories received 5-stars for all of its first 10 ratings) before getting knocked down by one-star bombs, usually 2-4 of them, which is enough to knock those stories out of "Hot" territory. Then the average rating creeps back up.

No, not different, Bob. This is what happens to nine out of every ten stories I post here.

 

[jaF0]

I have resorted to waiting for that 10th rating to come in and then turning off rating for that story, thus keeping the "Hot" rating forevermore, since people no longer have the opportunity to vote on it.

Sounds like manipulation. Things like that are why I'd rather see ratings eliminated across the board.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I see a similar pattern on my stories as well. Most of my early readers seem to really, really like my stuff, then someone stomps in and kicks it from the high 4's into below 3 territory within a couple of hours. Thankfully, it evens itself out eventually between more favourable votes and the occasional sweep, but it's pretty notable since I've kicked up my publishing schedule.

And woe if one of my stories dares to go beyond 4.85 - then there seems to be a certain SF/F readership clientele who mercilessly bomb it away from Toplist territory. I can set my clock to that. I had three seperate chapters of "Mud & Magic" go as high as 4.92 - only to be utterly demolished. I firmly believe there is a malicious presence at work. My readership numbers could be better, but I get quite a lot of votes in relation. It takes a bit more than the occasional 1-bomb troll to get a story from 4.92 to 4.79 over an afternoon. Thanks to the recent sweeps, most stories have recovered somewhat, but not fully. Meh.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Now for the "new and different" part: one of my stories, that I'd locked up in "Hot" territory after 13 ratings, somehow lost its "Hot" tag. When I restored the ability to rate this story, its rating appears as "null/13".

Are these new glitches, or have others also observed them?

I've only turned off votes for my three 750word stories. Two of them had "hot" ratings at the time. A few days later a sweep happened, and one lost its "h". I figured it was gone for good, because no one new could vote. But it magically reappeared a few weeks later. I dunno why, and I haven't checked in the past few days.

I have no speculation as to what happened; this is just to raise my hand and say it happened to me.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Nope, I went and looked

Mostly BDSM...which in real life has no issue with strong women(duh dominatrix femdom) and maybe up until a few years ago it was fine here

But that category has slid into a muck of non con that doesn't belong there, and it seems to have drawn a type of LW style troll that comes there to read about women being controlled(as those bitches should be!) so when they find a dominant female its roast time.

Its sad to see how BDSM not just here but on a lot of pay sites(checkn out SW) has devolved into a place to for NC/rape authors to slip it past the TOS of sites that won't allow actual non con or worse, people who thanks to the aforementioned group think that's what BDSM is supposed to be.

I've noticed that too. But, I've gotten pretty decent ratings in that category writing (for the most part) female masochists who know what they want and are enthusiastically participating. Of course, just looking at the ratings for stories on the first page of the category hub, no one is getting great ratings.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't really get the idea of locking in a red H by turning off voting. The result is, without question, phony and manipulated. As an author, you are eliminating input you otherwise would get from your readers.

But there's another flaw: you may be sabotaging yourself. Speaking for myself, if I see a story that has no score, I'm mildly disinclined to read it. It's not a disqualification, but to me it looks odd and makes me think the author is hiding something or trying to mess with me. The author doesn't want to give me the ability to rank the story. So it's a slight disincentive to read that story as opposed to the vast majority of stories that let me vote.

That disincentive may outweigh whatever benefit you think you get from having a red H for your story with 10 votes.

It also, to me, seems like an odd wager. If after 10 votes you have a 4.7, then it's very likely that after more voting and sweeps you'll have a score of around 4.7, or at the very least over 4.5 It may take a while after downvoting to get back there, but you should get back eventually. By eliminating voting, you're betting against yourself. Seems to me like an odd thing to do.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

I don't really get the idea of locking in a red H by turning off voting. The result is, without question, phony and manipulated. As an author, you are eliminating input you otherwise would get from your readers.

Speaking only for myself, I did it with the flash fiction stories because they're such outliers compared to my other stories. I did it with all three, including the LW story that was sitting at a 2.something when I did it. I still have comments turned on, so anyone's free to give feedback.

My other stories, regardless of whether *i* think they're fairly judged, still have voting, for good or ill.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I don't turn off voting or comments. Before I even chose to hit "submit" on my first story, I was fully aware that there will be people who probably hate what I write. My dad once told me "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." I knew I was putting my head into a blast furnace, thanks to some advance warning by Redskyes, the author who said I should totally publish my stuff.

Critique, fair or not-so-fair, is an inevitable part of being an artist of any kind. Doesn't mean I'm not allowed to bitch about it if someone is trying to sabotage my scores for whatever pissy reasons. So far, I have maybe deleted five comments overall by abrasive assholes, but the majority still exists, warts and all.

 

[MetaBob]

I have no speculation as to what happened; this is just to raise my hand and say it happened to me.

Thanks, Belle. It's good to know I'm not alone in seeing this.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The category for this particular chapter of this particular story is BDSM (FFm).

Interestingly, after a day or so, the ratings for this story have reappeared, perhaps helping to explain this glitch as temporary.

Interesting. I found BDSM to be a tumble-weeds zone for the story cycle I cross-linked into there - little take-up on the story (which was admittedly, BDSM lite), hardly any reaction at all. Same with Group - a bit of a meh category for me (I suspect three protagonists doesn't really qualify).

 

[Manu]

I have resorted to waiting for that 10th rating to come in and then turning off rating for that story

Sorry about the confusion.

The way the Lit system is intended to work is that when you turn off voting, all voting related features should be disabled on the public side. If it was still showing a hot icon after voting was turned off, that was a mistake on our side. It's possible that a reader reported the bug and it was fixed, which is why it doesn't show anymore.

If you notice any behavior like this in the future, please let us know. We're rolling out the new story cards on more parts of the site and there will be some bugs to fix.

Thank you.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've noticed that too. But, I've gotten pretty decent ratings in that category writing (for the most part) female masochists who know what they want and are enthusiastically participating. Of course, just looking at the ratings for stories on the first page of the category hub, no one is getting great ratings.

You're writing women who enjoy being on the bottom, that will always do well. Femdom or switch stories used to do just as well, but these days if its not the 'woman seeking her submissive side' or a misplaced non con story or things that are sexual torture and not actual BDSM, it will geet a low score if not trolled.

Over the last few years that category has lost a lot of long time readers and authors because the neighborhood has gone down hill as the saying goes.

One of my theories is someone told the LW crowd there's a category where men are dominant and treat women like shit...so they came running over with their 1.5" limp noodle in their hands, and will bash any story where the woman has any say in what happens to her.

Of course if its real BDSM the sub is the one with power and say, but when you're trying to explain that to a group that types with hooves, its not easy

Last time I wrote a story there was 2014. I'd already seen the above starting to happen and commented a couple times on it and had someone PM me that I don't like it there because I couldn't write that category. So my 'Mercedes Bends" was a put or shut up.

had the #1 in the 30 day list for a couple weeks before sliding into the 6 month list where it started getting hit. Still a pretty good score on it. It opens with a femdom scene, but at the end she just cuts loose and has some good old fashioned mutually enjoyable fucking with no games and that I think held the score up, its actually about her realizing sex doesn't always have to be "The Game"

 

[SimonDoom]

Sorry about the confusion.

The way the Lit system is intended to work is that when you turn off voting, all voting related features should be disabled on the public side. If it was still showing a hot icon after voting was turned off, that was a mistake on our side. It's possible that a reader reported the bug and it was fixed, which is why it doesn't show anymore.

If you notice any behavior like this in the future, please let us know. We're rolling out the new story cards on more parts of the site and there will be some bugs to fix.

Thank you.

Interesting. This seems to me to be the way it SHOULD work -- if an author disables voting, an author should not enjoy the benefits of voting, such as a previously obtained red H. But I agree with Ruben that this isn't what I've consistently observed happening. I have observed red Hs continuing even after voting is disabled. So it looks like there is a bug in the system.

 

[GroverLang]

My experience in seeing stories rated seems somewhat different than others here; my stories tend to come out of the gate with a high rating (one of my stories received 5-stars for all of its first 10 ratings) before getting knocked down by one-star bombs, usually 2-4 of them, which is enough to knock those stories out of "Hot" territory.

One of my stories, whilst on the front page, was on 4.14. That’s because out of 60 votes 9 were 1 votes. There was a sweep, the 9 were removed, and it went to 4.7. Just before it came off the front page it received 4 votes in 24 hours. One was a 5 but three were 1’s which demolished the score again but still just in the red. That was a little while ago with no more votes but unfortunately no further sweep. I suppose it’s just something you have to put up with and just hope there will be another sweep before it disappears into the darkness forever.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Sorry about the confusion.

The way the Lit system is intended to work is that when you turn off voting, all voting related features should be disabled on the public side. If it was still showing a hot icon after voting was turned off, that was a mistake on our side. It's possible that a reader reported the bug and it was fixed, which is why it doesn't show anymore.

If you notice any behavior like this in the future, please let us know. We're rolling out the new story cards on more parts of the site and there will be some bugs to fix.

Thank you.

Just to reiterate what Ruben and Simon have said, there are multiple authors here who have multiple Red H's on stories with voting locked out. MetaBob's whole premise is that doing so "preserves the H" in the face of unfavorable voting. I've seen one author whose entire catalog is "hot" stories no one can vote on. So, as the others said, either you've changed something, or your bug is vvveeerrrryyyy large (metaphorically speaking).

You're writing women who enjoy being on the bottom, that will always do well. Femdom or switch stories used to do just as well, but these days if its not the 'woman seeking her submissive side' or a misplaced non con story or things that are sexual torture and not actual BDSM, it will geet a low score if not trolled.

Over the last few years that category has lost a lot of long time readers and authors because the neighborhood has gone down hill as the saying goes.

One of my theories is someone told the LW crowd there's a category where men are dominant and treat women like shit...so they came running over with their 1.5" limp noodle in their hands, and will bash any story where the woman has any say in what happens to her.

Of course if its real BDSM the sub is the one with power and say, but when you're trying to explain that to a group that types with hooves, its not easy

Last time I wrote a story there was 2014. I'd already seen the above starting to happen and commented a couple times on it and had someone PM me that I don't like it there because I couldn't write that category. So my 'Mercedes Bends" was a put or shut up.

had the #1 in the 30 day list for a couple weeks before sliding into the 6 month list where it started getting hit. Still a pretty good score on it. It opens with a femdom scene, but at the end she just cuts loose and has some good old fashioned mutually enjoyable fucking with no games and that I think held the score up, its actually about her realizing sex doesn't always have to be "The Game"

That's too bad, not only because it happens to be my kink, but because there's so much human drama and character building you can do with the power exchange. Simon had a thread around new year's (iirc, it was Simon) about writing goals, and one of mine is to write better BDSM stories than what I've seen there. Maybe I'm deluding myself (not the first time, for that) but I keep thinking that if there are better quality stories, then maybe the audience will come back too.

It's weird, too, because alongside you "it shoulda been in NonCon" writers, there's also a subset of scolds who think face slapping is automatically, in all circumstances, abuse; or pontificate about some other portrayal of their idea of unsafe behavior.

 

[lovecraft68]

Just to reiterate what Ruben and Simon have said, there are multiple authors here who have multiple Red H's on stories with voting locked out. MetaBob's whole premise is that doing so "preserves the H" in the face of unfavorable voting. I've seen one author whose entire catalog is "hot" stories no one can vote on. So, as the others said, either you've changed something, or your bug is vvveeerrrryyyy large (metaphorically speaking).



That's too bad, not only because it happens to be my kink, but because there's so much human drama and character building you can do with the power exchange. Simon had a thread around new year's (iirc, it was Simon) about writing goals, and one of mine is to write better BDSM stories than what I've seen there. Maybe I'm deluding myself (not the first time, for that) but I keep thinking that if there are better quality stories, then maybe the audience will come back too.

It's weird, too, because alongside you "it shoulda been in NonCon" writers, there's also a subset of scolds who think face slapping is automatically, in all circumstances, abuse; or pontificate about some other portrayal of their idea of unsafe behavior.

IMO Face slapping is one of those things that people aren't all that familiar with the genre think is over the top. Personally that's not a thing for me, but for something like that it helps to have the character fantasize about it, mention it or however you want to make clear before it happens they're fine with it.

 

[jsmiam]

....Are these new glitches, or have others also observed them?

It’s not a glitch at all, it’s that the sample size (ten votes) is too small. You don’t really know what your real score is at only ten votes. And in the grand scheme of things, far bigger problems exist than this, but ultimately your tactic is not entirely playing fair.

There’s surely a degree of “hurry hurry, turn of scoring while the score is high!” Going on, so your score doesn’t compare to others who just let the scores happen as they occur.

In fact, you don’t know what your story really would score. You’re in a manner of speaking saying “the fives are real, the ones aren’t”. If you could delete all the ones, you’d do that, and proclaim your story a perfect five, it seems.

If in real life nine times as many people loved your story as hated it (ok, I’m pretending there are no 2/3/4 scores so I’m not being entirely realistic, you’d have a real 4.6 if you waited it out to about 100 votes to see how you’re really faring. Working the system the way you are, nobody probably cares too much because you’re not eligible for a contest, but your method is flawed. Even I’m not particularly upset, I’m just pointing this out to you.

Also, it’s not unusual, the phenomena you see. If you get one bombed when you have hundreds of votes, you might not even notice it. If the one bomb happens to arrive when your vote count is low, you’ll definitely notice. Remember though, the ones arrive throughout the life of your story too. You just don’t see them as clearly.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

IMO Face slapping is one of those things that people aren't all that familiar with the genre think is over the top. Personally that's not a thing for me, but for something like that it helps to have the character fantasize about it, mention it or however you want to make clear before it happens they're fine with it.

Yeah. I only mentioned that as example because the most over the top scolding comment I got was about that. I thought, of everything in the story, *that's* what your objecting to?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Just to reiterate what Ruben and Simon have said, there are multiple authors here who have multiple Red H's on stories with voting locked out. MetaBob's whole premise is that doing so "preserves the H" in the face of unfavorable voting. I've seen one author whose entire catalog is "hot" stories no one can vote on. So, as the others said, either you've changed something, or your bug is vvveeerrrryyyy large (metaphorically speaking).

There are, and for all sorts of reasons: some valid (to prevent deliberate and methodical trolling campaigns), some precious (to protect Red Hs, however earned).

I reckon MetaBobs glitches were either because of a small vote count with votes getting stripped out in sweeps, which upset the maths-bot; or timing issues where the calculation updates at different times. Didn't MetaBob say the score reappeared a day or two later?