A little grammar help?

[SuperWriter]

Really appreciate if any of you writers could help me out. All are comma problems I have

1) A: I smiled warmly. ------ B: I smiled, warmly.

2) A: Bob looked at her then went home. ------ B: Bob looked at her, then went home.

3) A: My head was pounding like it was hit by a hammer. ------- B: My head was pounding, like it was hit by a hammer.

4) A: I punched the air swinging at nothing. --------- B: 4) A: I punched the air, swinging at nothing.

 

[sr71plt]

More context is needed for a couple of these.

A. "I smiled warmly."
but, "I smiled, warmly shaking his hand."

B. Both are wrong, causing a sentence fragment, but the practice is creeping into standard writing. Grammatically, it should be, "Bob looked at her and then went home." Or "Bob looked at her, and then he went home." Or "Bob looked at her. Then he went home."

C. "My head was pounding like it was hit by a hammer." Although greater context might point to a different treatment.

D. "I punched at the air, swinging at nothing." Gerund clauses (introduced by words ending in "ing") are set off by commas in most contexts.

 

[Kantarii]

Really appreciate if any of you writers could help me out. All are comma problems I have

1) A: I smiled warmly. ------ B: I smiled, warmly.

2) A: Bob looked at her then went home. ------ B: Bob looked at her, then went home.

3) A: My head was pounding like it was hit by a hammer. ------- B: My head was pounding, like it was hit by a hammer.

4) A: I punched the air swinging at nothing. --------- B: 4) A: I punched the air, swinging at nothing.

I had a bad time with adverbs for the longest time. Now, I rarely use them so “I smiled” works for me unless I can use it as “My warm smile” turning the adverb into and adjective somehow.

Bob looked at her, then went home works. It skips a lot of other actions that might happen, though. Did he turn and walk away, heading home?

Like in this since is a similarity. I don’t use comas before “like”. That’s me.

I’m gonna borrow your line “I punched the air, swinging at nothing” It’s cute and very visual to me- score! Just need the right situation to use it
Kant

 

[oggbashan]

It depends what effect you want to create.

For 1, I think only a very few modifiers work with a smile. How can you smile warmly? You can smile or not smile. You can have a weak smile, a fleeting smile, an embarrassed smile, a wide smile but a warm one doesn't seem right.

2 and 4 show slightly different emphasis in the A and B examples. 2A - he went home because he looked at her. 2B - he went home later and his departure wasn't really caused by looking at her.

I would write 3 as - My head was pounding as if someone was hitting it with a hammer.

 

[NotWise]

B. Both are wrong, causing a sentence fragment, but the practice is creeping into standard writing. Grammatically, it should be, "Bob looked at her and then went home." Or "Bob looked at her, and then he went home." Or "Bob looked at her. Then he went home."

I think all of your alternatives are improvements over the original, but can you explain how "Bob looked at her then went home," is a sentence fragment? It seems wrong to me, but I can't see it as a fragment.

 

[oggbashan]

...

I’m gonna borrow your line “I punched the air, swinging at nothing” It’s cute and very visual to me- score! Just need the right situation to use it
Kant

I'm not happy with the combination of punch and swing.

Punching the air seems to me to be a vertical movement expressing success or pleasure.

Swinging a punch is a different movement in a horizontal plane.

Shadow-boxing or jabbing as if punching an invisible punch-bag or opponent could be punching the air, but that would not be a swing.

The line, whether A or B, doesn't work for me.

 

[sr71plt]

I think all of your alternatives are improvements over the original, but can you explain how "Bob looked at her then went home," is a sentence fragment? It seems wrong to me, but I can't see it as a fragment.

OK, I think I misspoke on that one. It involves a sentence fragment, but I guess it creates a run-on sentence rather than a sentence fragment (although the "then" clause is a fragment because it is missing something--either a conjunction to make it a dependent clause or a subject to complete it as an independent clause). So I guess it technically is a fragment slammed up against a sentence, making it a run-on sentence.

As I noted, though, it's increasingly being done and being let through, so the trend probably will be to accept it at some point. I find it grating when I see it, though.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

It depends what effect you want to create.

For 1, I think only a very few modifiers work with a smile. How can you smile warmly? You can smile or not smile. You can have a weak smile, a fleeting smile, an embarrassed smile, a wide smile but a warm one doesn't seem right.

2 and 4 show slightly different emphasis in the A and B examples. 2A - he went home because he looked at her. 2B - he went home later and his departure wasn't really caused by looking at her.

I would write 3 as - My head was pounding as if someone was hitting it with a hammer.

Shouldn't you use the subjunctive for 3, Og? I'd write it:

My head was pounding as if someone were hitting it with a hammer.

 

[sr71plt]

It depends what effect you want to create.

For 1, I think only a very few modifiers work with a smile. How can you smile warmly? You can smile or not smile. You can have a weak smile, a fleeting smile, an embarrassed smile, a wide smile but a warm one doesn't seem right.

Oh, no, I often think that "smile" alone doesn't do it. There are warm smiles and there are sneers and there are licentious smiles. And often in writing, you want to/need to differentiate to pin it down. Sometimes it's clumsy or wordy to convey it otherwise.

I find myself cringing, as Kanti posts, in using an adverb in such descriptor slugs, but sometimes it does the job for me and avoids awkward construction, so I just go ahead and do it. I don't beat every adverb out of the text; I think that's overkill and drains away the sense of telling the story as if the author is speaking it.

 

[NotWise]

OK, I think I misspoke on that one. It involves a sentence fragment, but I guess it creates a run-on sentence rather than a sentence fragment (although the "then" clause is a fragment because it is missing something--either a conjunction to make it a dependent clause or a subject to complete it as an independent clause). So I guess it technically is a fragment slammed up against a sentence, making it a run-on sentence.

I often need to remind myself that 'then' is not a coordinating conjunction.

 

[SimonDoom]

SR71PLT is dead on, IMO.

A few rules of thumb that will provide guidance in these situations:

1. You don't put a comma between the verb and the adverb that modifies it, unless the adverb introduces a longer phrase. So "I smiled warmly" is correct.

2. Before worrying about commas, you should get an understanding of the difference between fragments, depending clauses, and independent clauses, and compound predicates. Comma use depends upon which of these things you are using and how you are using them together.

Ex. 2 above is basically a compound predicate but it's missing a word, as SR71PLT indicates: it needs the word "and." Or you can write it as two independent clauses by adding "he" in the second clause, as suggested as well.

"Bob looked at her and then went home." This is an example of a compound predicate. Bob, the subject, did two things, and the verbs are joined by "and." No comma.

"Bob looked at her, and then he went home." This is an example of two independent clauses (complete sentences) joined by the conjunction "and." This requires a comma.


"When Bob looked at her, he went home." The first part is a dependent clause, because it has a subject and verb but is not a sentence. The second part is an independent clause because it stands alone as a sentence. You need a comma to join the two clauses.

 

[TeflonGuy]

Sadly, these are conversations I can no longer engage in at this juncture in my life. Perhaps some day I will again.

You all must cherish such abilities while you have them.

 

[NotWise]

2. Before worrying about commas, you should get an understanding of the difference between fragments, depending clauses, and independent clauses, and compound predicates. Comma use depends upon which of these things you are using and how you are using them together.

I googled "Can 'then' be used as a coordinating conjunction" and found exactly that question asked and answered on english.stackexchange.com.

One of the answers would make 2A (no comma) correct, as Pilot suggested it might be. The sentence would properly be written 'He looked at her and then went home,' but the 'and' can be omitted from the sentence because its presence is implied.

I don't know the qualifications of the person who provided the answer, but it did make sense.

I still don't like the way 2A reads, and I think that all of Pilot's alternatives were better.

 

[SimonDoom]

Sadly, these are conversations I can no longer engage in at this juncture in my life. Perhaps some day I will again.

You all must cherish such abilities while you have them.

That's too bad. I would hate to have something happen that barred me from talking about grammar.

Grammar is funny: some people see it as strictly and absolutely necessary, and others hate it, thinking of it as the province of intellectual Nazis.

I've always loved grammar. It appeals to my left-brain/right-brain combo. It's not a matter of rules; it's a set of tools to achieve a better understanding of what you are writing and the logic that underlies it. Knowing grammar helps you communicate better with your audience. That's the most useful thing about it.

I liked diagramming sentences when I was in school, so I may be weird. I don't know if students today even do that anymore.

 

[sr71plt]

I liked diagramming sentences when I was in school, so I may be weird. I don't know if students today even do that anymore.

I enjoyed diagramming too, but I couldn't do it now. It's like the higher maths that have been no use to me in theory after school, even though I've degreed in editing and publishing and edited pushing on 200 mainstream books, I have lost the "reason why" explanations for a lot of basic usage points and just run on what intuitively is correct because there is a solid educational base under it.

I'm editing a book now that includes a lot of "ly" word hyphenations. I know you don't hyphenate an "ly"-ending word to another one, but I've lost the reason why and haven't found it discussed anywhere beyond "don't do it."

 

[ThatsTheGuy]

That's too bad. I would hate to have something happen that barred me from talking about grammar.

Grammar is funny: some people see it as strictly and absolutely necessary, and others hate it, thinking of it as the province of intellectual Nazis.

I've always loved grammar. It appeals to my left-brain/right-brain combo. It's not a matter of rules; it's a set of tools to achieve a better understanding of what you are writing and the logic that underlies it. Knowing grammar helps you communicate better with your audience. That's the most useful thing about it.

I liked diagramming sentences when I was in school, so I may be weird. I don't know if students today even do that anymore.

TeflonGuy had a head injury that caused a brain hemorrhage aka blunt force trauma induced stroke. Serious brain damage which almost killed him. He's learned to walk, talk, read and write again in 6 months. One of his frontal lobes barely functions and about 1/4 of his brain is literally dead. It's affected his ability to communicate and reason as most normal persons can.

Still, he continues to struggle with his new normal. He does indeed know how to write and talk, but he has problems relaying certain terminologies and verbally expressing his thoughts.

Grammar is of utmost importance to him.

Sorry to interrupt the thread.

 

[TeflonGuy]

TeflonGuy had a head injury that caused a brain hemorrhage aka blunt force trauma induced stroke. Serious brain damage which almost killed him. He's learned to walk, talk, read and write again in 6 months. One of his frontal lobes barely functions and about 1/4 of his brain is literally dead. It's affected his ability to communicate and reason as most normal persons can.

Still, he continues to struggle with his new normal. He does indeed know how to write and talk, but he has problems relaying certain terminologies and verbally expressing his thoughts.

Grammar is of utmost importance to him.

Sorry to interrupt the thread.

^^^^Hes right. Not much I can do about it except for the control factors. My goal is to work with this problem as best I can. I hope to be an inspiration some day to others less fortunate than me.

 

[Handley_Page]

^^^^Hes right. Not much I can do about it except for the control factors. My goal is to work with this problem as best I can. I hope to be an inspiration some day to others less fortunate than me.

Good for you.

To me, a lot depends upon what you want the reaction of the participants to be.
This is compounded by the quality and type of English used /spoken in different parts (I somehow doubt that English in the Bronx is quite the same as in Silicon Valley. There are subtleties which may be in one but not the other