A letter to the editor

[WRJames]

Honest to God, this is exactly what was exchanged -- I have removed any identifying material to protect the innocent(?)

Dear James,

You obviously didn't read the last e-mail I sent you, your Boss Terrie undertook to
instruct you to edit my manuscript, after which she would do a once over before it's published.
If it takes a hundred hours of your work, that's too bad because that is what I am paying you to do.
If I had known that Clublighthouse Publishing has editors who do not wish to edit I would not have signed the contract. If you don't like editing manuscripts I will give you some free clinical advice, "you are in the wrong job".
Terrie undertook and promised to edit my manuscript ready for publication, and in her own words I quote her e-mail to me "So don't worry okay".
I also take as an insult and total rudeness the way you speak to your clients, your authors.
Without authors Publishing Companies don't exist,without a steady stream of new authors eventually publishing companies will die.
I am not a Hicfrom the backwoods of Canada, but a retired professional Clinical/Industrial Psychologist with thirty years experience with major Australian Hospitals.
Your quip about being unprofessional is amazing here we have an editor like yourself being paid good money to edit and does not want to spend his time editing?
Your comment about established authors having books readied for publication in four or five hours is total rubbish and you know it. If I was Nigel Tranter presenting a book for publication it would take many hours of editing to prepare correctly for publication.
This comment on the author not making an effort to go beyond a rough draft, tells me how inexperienced you really are in your craft, any author or professional editor would not make such an infantile statement.
I spent well over a thousand hours just coming up with the manuscript, let alone the dozen edits I went through to get to the latest draft, hundreds of further hours spent.
I have no confidence in you as an editor, let alone your total lack of skills in client contact.I wish my manuscript to be edited by Terrie with whom I have my contract with.

XXXX






----- Original Message -----




If you think that getting your stuff in decent shape is something for the “little people” and you can’t be bothered to do it yourself, that is a very unprofessional attitude.



At the rate of four pages an hour, it would take at least a hundred hours to turn your book into something you could be proud of. You can do your own calculation as to how much of an investment that would be. We have other established authors whose books can be readied for publication in four or five hours. Frankly, your book is not worth my time and effort in its current condition.



Or, we could print it as is, and you could live with the embarrassment of having it put out that way. I don’t know if Terrie would agree to publish it in its current state of disarray.



As an author, I know how difficult it is to create – but I also know that if you don’t spend the time to get things right, your creative efforts are not worth much. I am quite willing to work with you to get your manuscript in shape for publication, but I am reluctant to take on something where the author has not made any effort on his own to go beyond a rough draft.








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Dear James,



I think I should remind you of a few facts, your boss Terrie Balmer sent me an e-mail on Wednesday, 5 May

2010 11.40 AM, stating that she had read my manuscript enough to determine my style, story pace, grammatical structure etc, and didn't find it too lacking in that sense. However, after it's edited, she will be doing a once over before it's published. She mentioned she would have James our VP/Associate Author editing the manuscript as he has been to Egypt and has more knowledge of that area then she does.



I have spent over a thousand hours coming up with the original story and as an author you will know how difficult that is! Terrie and I have a contract, and she has undertaken to produce from my manuscript a book for publication by the end of the year.



It is now your job to do the editing and make my manuscript into a book!



In these difficult economic times, people now have to earn their rewards, when published your company will earn well over half the money my book makes in the market place, you now need to put in your part of the overall effort to make it all happen, and not complain to me that you had to spend a whole two hours of your time editing my book, that's your job Mate!





Very kind regards



XXXX

----- Original Message -----


Subject: RE: (A novel)



This draft does not address the editing issues I mentioned in my first note. You need to handle dialog properly, using quotation marks and breaking it up into paragraphs depending on who is talking.



You still have a lot of sloppy, run on sentences. For example,



The surroundings were strange, sumptuous furnishings were everywhere, gold and silver ornaments, lamps, busts of strange people were all around the walls, which themselves were covered in strange paintings of people in chariots. Getting out of bed and walked around the room, it was vast, my bare feet on the floor walked over smooth marble of wondrous colours, and felt cold to the touch, there was no sound but my poor heart beating a thousand to the minute in my ears.



The word strange is over used.



Getting out of bed and walked around the room – who is doing this? and felt cold to the touch – the floor?



If you look at the sample I sent you, here it how I attempted a repair



The surroundings were strange. Sumptuous furnishings were everywhere, gold and silver ornaments, lamps. Busts of exotic people were all around the walls, which themselves were covered in strange paintings of people in chariots. I got out of bed and walked around the room. It was vast. My bare feet walked over smooth marble of wondrous colours. It felt cold to the touch. There was no sound but my poor heart beating a thousand times a minute in my ears.



This is the kind of edit your novel needs before it can be published.






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Subject: Re: (A Novel)



Dear James,



Thank you for your e-mail on 6-8-10.



This manuscript you have was an early one and I was aware we needed to do more work on it, but when I wanted to send it to Terrie she said don't send changes as she had already started to format the work and she would have to start again! you are the experts so I did what I was instructed.



Even so the manuscript was totally reviewed just in case someone like you wanted more editing done.

The last edit took 31 hours to complete and I enclose it in the e-mail.



Kind regards



XXXX















r---- Original Message -----

Subject: (A novel)



I am an editor for Club Lighthouse Publishing (also the VP). Terrie asked me to edit your novel XXX

There are so many errors in punctuation that it will take forever to do this. Also, there are inconsistencies in tense, wavering back from present to past tense.



What I would like you to do is to take another pass through your opus and get it into proper shape for submission. Quotations should be in quotes, for example. Sentences should start with a capital letter. You have a lot of run on sentences. Regard each comma with deep suspicion and break up sentences into smaller pieces.



I went through the first four pages or so and it took me over an hour. You can see how tedious it is going to be to get through over four hundred pages in that condition.



I have attached the first few pages after edit so you can see what it should look like.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think my favorite part is "...your Boss Terrie."


Writer said they were willing to pay.
Double your charge per page. Sub the job-- I know plenty of young highschool grad English majors who could take this on, for minimum wage and do a very fine job of it, and I bet you do too.

 

[R. Richard]

Well now! Here's your problem.

"I am not a Hicfrom the backwoods of Canada, but a retired professional Clinical/Industrial Psychologist with thirty years experience with major Australian Hospitals."

He's not a hick from the backwoods of Canada. No, he's a hick from the outback of Australia. What you need is something like this, "Looky 'ere mate. We gonna give your manuscript what for. But, listen 'ere, most of the manuscripts we get come from blokes what can at least spell. And, I mean, do they teach grammar at all, down under? Frankly your stuff looks like something written right after you stumbled out the pub. Oh yeah, we don't normally receive a lot of manuscripts written in crayola. I mean, Which side of the psychologist interviews were you on? By the way, we can't publish nothin' about the part of your love life that involves kangaroos, or wallabies either, mate."

 

[R. Richard]

Double post.

 

[sr71plt]

Looks crash and burn on both sides of the ledger to me.

For openers, there should have been a scan on it being ready for submission before the submission was accepted by the publisher.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Maxwell Perkins used to make novels outta Thomas Wolfe's crates of manuscript.

 

[sr71plt]

Maxwell Perkins used to make novels outta Thomas Wolfe's crates of manuscript.

That's a different kind of editor--and one who receives big bucks for doing so.

 

[WRJames]

Looks crash and burn on both sides of the ledger to me.

For openers, there should have been a scan on it being ready for submission before the submission was accepted by the publisher.

Which we normally do of course -- typically we get three or four people looking at something before we would accept it.

Actually if it had been shorter, I might have just done a salvage job. It was the length -- over four hundred pages -- that turned this one into a black hole.

There are lot of good story tellers who cannot write a grammatical sentence, and I have produced some of those books.

 

[michchick98]

Which we normally do of course -- typically we get three or four people looking at something before we would accept it.

Actually if it had been shorter, I might have just done a salvage job. It was the length -- over four hundred pages -- that turned this one into a black hole.

There are lot of good story tellers who cannot write a grammatical sentence, and I have produced some of those books.

I'm not a professional editor by a long shot, but I can tell you even If I were paid, I wouldn't spend more than an hour or two on editing for someone. Maybe more or maybe less, depending on how bad the manuscript was.

If I found myself re-writing a lot of it or suggesting re-writes of entire paragraphs or scenes, then I'd send it back to the author and politely explain to him or her what the issues were. If he/she argued with me or insisted that I do all the corrections for him/her, then I'd politely tell them they could look elsewhere for publication, to a publisher who had editors with no qualms about re-writing an author's story and not taking co-author credit for it.

On another note, I had a manuscript rejected from a publisher recently and while I accept rejection as part of being an author, I was kind of disappointed with them when I read a few ebooks from that publisher. I'll get to that in a minute.

They'd mentioned issues with plot and character development as well as issues with my use of punctuation and grammar. "Minor issues," they'd said. So I polished it up and sent it off to be edited again. I submitted it elsewhere and it was accepted.

My disappointment came from when I read a few other ebooks from the same publisher. It was a series of 4 books, all by the same author, with glaring grammatical errors as well as inconsistancies in places of relevance mentioned in the story (one story referred to Minnesota, the other referred to Michigan, for the same characters - I re-read it to make sure I was reading correctly - and the third story switched back to Minnesota.)

And this hasn't been the first series of books I've read from that publisher in such a condition. These errors are enough to distract from the story or make a reader stumble or have to re-read certain parts.

So, in my disappointment, I sent a letter to the publisher stating that if they're going to reject my manuscript for "minor issues" then they should make sure that all their manuscripts and authors are held to the same standards.

After all, isn't a publisher essentially an employer and the author its employee? Wouldn't a poorly written/edited manuscript reflect badly on not just the author, but the publisher as well?

Of course, I haven't received a reply yet, and I don't know if I will.

Okay, sorry I got off on a tangent.

Anyway, I think even with being paid, there should be limitations as to what an editor should do to make a manuscript ready for publication.

 

[sr71plt]

In the professional editing world, this isn't something the line editor would be arguing directly with the author. Once the publisher has contracted for the work, the editor's job is to fully edit it. If the editor has "is too raw" qualms, that goes back to the publisher to either say "edit it anyway" or to negotiate it back into the author's lap. The author's contact at the publishing house is the acquisitions editor, not the copy editor.

That's why I posted that the first failing in the transaction was the publisher's acceptance of the work. The second one would be the copy editor getting into a direct wrangling with the author.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My favorite part of SOPHIE'S CHOICE is where a junior editor rejects a book that later becomes a best seller around the world. It really happened. The junior editor was subsequently sacked.

Editors are like bank loan officers; if they have a run of losers they become paralyzed with fear. In fact they may have accepted several pieces of crap and been burned before your book lands on their desk.

I estimate 80% of the books in the local library oughta be burned or churned into paper insulation becuz theyre so poorly written and dull. Stephen King shoulda hung up his guns after his first 5-6 books.

 

[sr71plt]

My favorite part of SOPHIE'S CHOICE is where a junior editor rejects a book that later becomes a best seller around the world. It really happened. The junior editor was subsequently sacked.

Editors are like bank loan officers; if they have a run of losers they become paralyzed with fear. In fact they may have accepted several pieces of crap and been burned before your book lands on their desk.

I estimate 80% of the books in the local library oughta be burned or churned into paper insulation becuz theyre so poorly written and dull. Stephen King shoulda hung up his guns after his first 5-6 books.

Again, different editors. That was a junior acquisitions editor, not the copy editor.

Obviously you don't know the difference.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Again, different editors. That was a junior acquisitions editor, not the copy editor.

Obviously you don't know the difference.

Some places one person wears all the hats; you obviously dont know this.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In the professional editing world, this isn't something the line editor would be arguing directly with the author. Once the publisher has contracted for the work, the editor's job is to fully edit it. If the editor has "is too raw" qualms, that goes back to the publisher to either say "edit it anyway" or to negotiate it back into the author's lap. The author's contact at the publishing house is the acquisitions editor, not the copy editor.

That's why I posted that the first failing in the transaction was the publisher's acceptance of the work. The second one would be the copy editor getting into a direct wrangling with the author.

This. I am going to frame this and hang it on my wall.

What has your Boss Terrie said about it, James?

 

[sr71plt]

Some places one person wears all the hats; you obviously dont know this.

Sure I do. Not in either the OP's case or the Sophie's Choice one. So, you're just wriggling around in irrelevance to the issue.

(Not even a nice try.)

 

[WRJames]

This. I am going to frame this and hang it on my wall.

What has your Boss Terrie said about it, James?

Well, eventually we did have to go back to the Boss, since I'm just a hick from the deep woods (I actually live in the deep woods, but that's another story).

It's fairly typical for us to have the editors talk directly to the authors. Usually the authors treat the editors with a bit more respect. Actually I had already told Terrie it was an awful mess, and she was hoping we could work out an amicable solution.

We don't have a separate acquisitions editor. As I mentioned, usually manuscripts get circulated for review, at least ones from new authors. In any case, I am second in command in the organization, such as it is, and that was mentioned in my first note to the guy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ah, well. There's no law that says writers have to be sane....

 

[sr71plt]

It's pretty obvious from the exchange given that the author/publisher weren't on the same sheet of music. That's what contract time is supposed to make clear. If all of that was done, and the author didn't remember/chose to forget, there's that then. It happens. Not that often or to this degree in mainline publishing, though.

 

[WRJames]

It's pretty obvious from the exchange given that the author/publisher weren't on the same sheet of music. That's what contract time is supposed to make clear. If all of that was done, and the author didn't remember/chose to forget, there's that then. It happens. Not that often or to this degree in mainline publishing, though.

I'm sure the mainline publishers have this figured out and know how to avoid problems. We are still in the learning stage.

Actually, although it is unusual for us to ask for revisions this extensive, it is in our contract that we have the right to do it. Do the mainline contracts have the same provision? In our case, we are not paying advances, so there is not that complication.

I think you are correct though, that the author thought we were much grander in scale than is the case. Imagine his disappoinment to get a glimpse behind the curtain. I think most of our authors, hopefully, understand us for what we are and are willing to work with us on that basis.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Ah, well. There's no law that says writers have to be sane....

I thought that insanity was a necessary prerequisite for writers.................

 

[sr71plt]

Actually, although it is unusual for us to ask for revisions this extensive, it is in our contract that we have the right to do it. Do the mainline contracts have the same provision? In our case, we are not paying advances, so there is not that complication.

I think you are correct though, that the author thought we were much grander in scale than is the case. Imagine his disappoinment to get a glimpse behind the curtain. I think most of our authors, hopefully, understand us for what we are and are willing to work with us on that basis.

Yep, mainstream contracts have that provision too. The "keep the author assuming its a grander publisher it may be" would be a major reason why the acquisition editor who made the offer and set up the contract would be the one to dump a half-baked manuscript back in the lap of the author.

 

[TE999]

You could publish the manuscript as is and add an editors note that the author's inspiration was 'Finnegans Wake'.

 

[WRJames]

You could publish the manuscript as is and add an editors note that the author's inspiration was 'Finnegans Wake'.

I only wish that was funny. Too many authors seem to take that as their model. They get very upset when we reject them.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I did the "Finnegan's Wake" thing back in highschool-- and got over it.

 

[TE999]

I only wish that was funny. Too many authors seem to take that as their model. They get very upset when we reject them.

How can someone put that many words together and not see what a confused mess it's become? (James Joyce nowithstanding) I thought everyone had some grounding in basic grammar, punctuation and sentence structure. Evidently not.

I did the "Finnegan's Wake" thing back in highschool-- and got over it.

I tried churning my way through that verbal morass once and gave up 20 pages in. IMO it's like a bad LSD trip without all the pretty colors.