A historical or An historical?

[Wildcard Ky]

Which is correct? I've heard both used. An is supposed to come before words that start with a vowel, but H is a consonant.

Can someone shed some light on this for me?

 

[cloudy]

"a historical" is correct.

 

[cantdog]

Correct now, and correct here in the States. (Meaning what cloudy said, I mean to say, that is. )

 

[Wildcard Ky]

That's what I thought, but I've heard AN historical used many times by very professional people with professional speech writers. I distinctly remember Clinton using it in a speech once.

 

[cantdog]

Well, there will never be a law against it, and Clinton was a Rhodes scholar, spent time in the UK.

 

[australwind]

An is also used in front of Hotel as well...........its an English grammatical rule that has declined in popular use in recent years...partly due to the Americanisation of the language globally. It is still a correct usuage of "an" and would not considered wrong either way here in Aus.

 

[R. Richard]

The use of "a" or "an" effectively depends on the pronunciation of the following word. In some usages, an initial 'h' is more or less silent. In that case an 'otel would be proper. However, a hotel is clearly the "more correct form."

What say you Litizens?

 

[mismused]

delete

 

[HLD]

Both are correct, just as it is correct to spell favor as favour, to write a date as 23 July 2003, or to call the trunk of your car "the boot". The English language is full of regional/national differences in dialect.

If you are doing the writing, the important thing is to be consistent

 

[cloudy]

Both are correct, just as it is correct to spell favor as favour, to write a date as 23 July 2003, or to call the trunk of your car "the boot". The English language is full of regional/national differences in dialect.

If you are doing the writing, the important thing is to be consistent

Um, sorry, no.

Mismused is correct in its usage.

 

[Alex756]

Both are correct, just as it is correct to spell favor as favour, to write a date as 23 July 2003, or to call the trunk of your car "the boot". The English language is full of regional/national differences in dialect.

If you are doing the writing, the important thing is to be consistent

The difference in a and an has to do with how both a, an, and the word it is affecting are pronounced

if the dialect has it as a long a, a historical is what you will see. If the accent is such that the h in 'historical' is pronounced the soft a will appear with an almost comma like pause between it and the word historical, a h with a short i is a much harder transition to make than say 'horse' a horse, always, but with historical an historical is seen when the h is very muted, think eliza doolittle practicing, just flicker the candle don't put it out. I know personally I would say an historical normally, if I am out in the country and that dialect is influencing me it would a historical with a pause.

This is an historic developement to cognative science, this is a historic bull ride.

the rules of grammar are broken so often as to not be rules but rather regional specifications and oxford cambridge chicago and new york will never all agree

~Alex

 

[cloudy]

the rules of grammar are broken so often as to not be rules but rather regional specifications and oxford cambridge chicago and new york will never all agree

~Alex

Correct grammar is not dependent upon region.

 

[australwind]

Try this on for size....

A or An ?

The article a is used before consonant sounds; an is used before vowel sounds.


Words beginning with h, o and u sometimes begin with a vowel sound, sometimes a consonant sound.

Consonant Sound: a heroic couplet (h sound)

a once-happy lover (w sound)

a universal problem (y sound)


Vowel Sound: an honest man (no h sound)

an only child (o sound)

an unusual insect (u sound)

 

[Equinoxe]

1913 Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary says:
An is used before a word beginning with a vowel sound; as, an enemy, an hour. It in also often used before h sounded, when the accent of the word falls on the second syllable; as, an historian, an hyena, an heroic deed. Many writers use a before h in such positions. Anciently an was used before consonants as well as vowels.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Correct grammar is not dependent upon region.

Ah, actually, it is. "An historic" is perfectly correct in the UK - where, I might add, I have heard the conjugation "gotten" described as a quaint archaism foisted on we Americans by Noah Webster. The person offering that opinion was a professor of English, so I believe that he spoke with some authority. UK residents also use commas differently in some ways; that which in the United States is an error called a comma splice is dealt with rather more flexibly in the UK.

That said, we don't need to leap across the Atlantic on this one; the use of "an" in front of a word beginning with "h" is also listed as an accepted alternative in my desk dictionary (American).

As an interesting side note, there's a point somewhere in the 14th century, if I remember correctly, where common English usage shifts from "an apple / an horse" to "a napple / a norse" and then back again. Strange thing, language. The SO and I have revived the custom as a way of being silly around the house. Napple, anyone?

Shanglan

 

[Huckleman2000]

I agree with australwind.

And, as a rule, I defer to Shanglan all questions of grammar.

My professional mentors were (and still are, actually..) British. As a conciliation to our client base (predominantly American) we adopted US spellings; so, favor, not favour; color, not colour; etc. In situations where we referred to a company as "they", not "it", or vice versa, things got ugly. As in, "Apple has declared a stock split. They are exchanging two shares for each share outstanding." This would be edited to "Apple has declared a stock split. It is exchanging two shares..." or "Apple are declaring a stock split. They are exchanging...." The latter would be preferred, as 'Apple' refers to a company of people, and is therefore plural by definition, while a 'thing' cannot declare anything to begin with, so 'it' makes no sense in the context.

In my professional writing, I write with American spelling and a British accent.

 

[English Lady]

In college we did alot on dialect and it was fascinating to see the different examples of correct "wrong" grammar in many dialects.

Language is malleable, it changes with use and so I'm with HLD and it's important to be consistant.

Saying that, I try to cut out my regiuonal dialect uses unless I am writing a character who is specifically from the north west of England, simply because to everyone else it's bad grammar *L*

I think the differences probably come down to pronunciation.

a short sharp "a" as in the phonetical sound of an A would sound hars next to historical or hotel, try it.

a historical

a hotel


it makes me cringe, so it sounds better to soften the "a" sound and use an instead -it flows better.

If you use the more rounded, plummy A as in the way you say the word in the alphabet song "a b c d....." then it sounds fine next to a H word.

A historical

A hotel


But it all depends how you look at language. an H isn't a vowel so it therefore "should" be A before it, unless you're using a dialect in your work.


Edited to add -if Shanglan says "an" is correct, then I go with Shanglan The bit about a napple is fascinating. Language is fascinating

 

[dr_mabeuse]

There is no Pope of Grammar. There is no High Council On What Is Right (except in France.) There are authorities whose opinions we value but they ofte disagree, which is why oganizations involved in writing all have their own style books. The final decision on matters of grammar is pretty much made by consensus and your editor, and iltimately by the person who's paying to do the printing.

I heard the editor of the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language talking about changes in grammar, and "a" and "an" was one of the things he mentioned, with the choice of article being largely determined by the regional pronunciation of the following word. It's a horrible sight to me, but to a Cockney it's an 'orrible soight. (If uses "a" he's going to sound like Buddy Holly. Try it.)

That's spoken English though. Spoken English evolves and changes much faster than written English. If you're writing it, I would go with "a historical event".

Check the last sentence too. Most authorities would say that the final period should go inside the quotation marks. The current trend is to put the period outside the quotation marks unless the entire sentence is a direct quote. That's something new too.

Most grammarians will tell you "Every student should bring his money" is correct. Common usage would probably say "Every student should bring their money", and the editor I spoke of listed this change in collective pronouns as one of the big changes that's now taking place in English, driven by our avoidance of sexist pronouns. American Heritage now accepts either form, other grammarians disagree.

 

[NoJo]

"The law, sir, is a hass" -- Mr Bumble.

The presence or lack of a leading "H" in my British class-conscious society is a clear demarker class.

Dropping the initial "H" as Londoners do has led to some quaint pronounciations:
Working-class people, aware that "proper people" pronounce their H's , might add them spuriously, as an affectation of education, as Mr Bumble did. My son pronounces the letter "H" "Haitch", which is how his friends and some of his teachers pronounce it.

Some cockney H-droppers use "An" with H-words. "An 'orse", "She's an 'ore'".

My mechanic tells me I should "Get an 'Onda".

BBC newsreaders, guardians of "Good" English, would say "An 'istoric occasion" rather than "A historic occasion".

 

[NoJo]

mispost

 

[sincerely_helene]

mispost

Mister Post. *nods in regard*

 

[NoJo]

Mister Post. *nods in regard*

I'm Master Posting now.

 

[HLD]

Um, sorry, no.

Mismused is correct in its usage.

Um, sorry, yes.

Click here or to save you the trouble of reading the whole article:

"If you speak and write British English, you can probably keep using an before historical, hysterical, habitual, etc. I doubt that you will be challenged by your own countrymen, and if Americans challenge you, just point out that British usage and American usage often differ.

If you are American, you probably should use a rather than an, even in a historic occasion or a historical reference. Most of us are comfortable with a historic occasion, because the word historic has fewer syllables than historical, so the h is more fully pronounced. But if, like me, you are old enough to find a historical reference a tad uncomfortable, then go ahead and say an historical reference."

 

[cloudy]

Um, sorry, yes.

Click here or to save you the trouble of reading the whole article:

"If you speak and write British English, you can probably keep using an before historical, hysterical, habitual, etc. I doubt that you will be challenged by your own countrymen, and if Americans challenge you, just point out that British usage and American usage often differ.

If you are American, you probably should use a rather than an, even in a historic occasion or a historical reference. Most of us are comfortable with a historic occasion, because the word historic has fewer syllables than historical, so the h is more fully pronounced. But if, like me, you are old enough to find a historical reference a tad uncomfortable, then go ahead and say an historical reference."

Silly me. I guess my degree in English was wasted, then.

 

[SummerMorning]

There is no Pope of Grammar. There is no High Council On What Is Right (except in France.) There are authorities whose opinions we value but they ofte disagree, which is why oganizations involved in writing all have their own style books. The final decision on matters of grammar is pretty much made by consensus and your editor, and iltimately by the person who's paying to do the printing.

Heck, we have one too. A High Council. Mostly it's one old and influential professor that everyone hates and the department that's waiting for him to choke on a bagel and pass the High and Mighty Stool of Discerning and Diction. And it's mangling our language. Not to mention it turns your town from "Tmin" to "Tolmin" based on ... er ... the presumption that what we call where we live is a degeneration from the original ideal ... right. Hum