A Good Day for 2A

[BabyBoomer50s]

Big thanks to Senators Manchin, Tester, and King. Warm regards and gratitude for the good work behind the scene by America’s oldest civil rights organization, the National Rifle Association.


White House planning to withdraw ATF nominee

“The White House is planning to withdraw David Chipman's nomination to lead the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, according to three sources close to the process.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/09/white-house-withdraw-atf-nominee-510811

 

[pecksniff]

The NRA is not a civil rights organization, it is a firearms-industry lobby.

 

[WillJ8787]

The NRA is not a civil rights organization, it is a firearms-industry lobby.

Correct...the single issue the NRA focuses on is keeping a firearm in a cold dead hand. So be it!

 

[CornusKousa]

The NRA is not a civil rights organization, it is a firearms-industry lobby.

Those are not mutually exclusive things.

In fact they can and are the same thing.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Correct...the single issue the NRA focuses on is keeping a firearm in a cold dead hand. So be it!

They focus on the second amendment, a natural right enumerated in the US Constitution. Founded in 1871, the NRA pre-dates the NCAAP and ACLU. More members too. Exact numbers are hard to verify, but a January, 2021 article in left wing Mother Jones pegs it at around 4 million, down from about 5 million in recent years. The Wayne LaPierre scandal no doubt played a role in the decline, but the surge in gun sales driven by the BLM riots, defund the police, power-crazed governors, and the election of President Biden has probably given America’s oldest civil rights organization a renewed membership boost.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

Big thanks to Senators Manchin, Tester, and King. Warm regards and gratitude for the good work behind the scene by America’s oldest civil rights organization, the National Rifle Association.


White House planning to withdraw ATF nominee

“The White House is planning to withdraw David Chipman's nomination to lead the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, according to three sources close to the process.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/09/white-house-withdraw-atf-nominee-510811

I'm not celebrating a morally and financially bankrupt company.

 

[pecksniff]

They focus on the second amendment, a natural right . . .

There are no such things as natural rights, no more than there is any such thing as natural law apart from the laws of physics and chemistry.

 

[ShyBiGuy954]

There are no such things as natural rights, no more than there is any such thing as natural law apart from the laws of physics and chemistry.

Spoken like the true communist you are.

 

[WillJ8787]

There are no such things as natural rights, no more than there is any such thing as natural law apart from the laws of physics and chemistry.

Correct...the 2nd Amendment was solely about making sure The King would not return, not think about returning...it was practical at the time. It isn't practical or necessary anymore.

There is no such thing as "natural" rights or "sovereign Individuals". It's pure quackery!

 

[pecksniff]

Spoken like the true communist you are.

Marx appears to have believed in some form of natural law.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

There are no such things as natural rights, no more than there is any such thing as natural law apart from the laws of physics and chemistry.

Natural rights is a philosophy that dates back to the Middle Ages or even earlier. So no, not the same as physics or chemistry. The concept profoundly influenced our Declaration of Independence and our Bill of Rights. Google it if you must.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I'm not celebrating a morally and financially bankrupt company.

Fair enough. If you change your mind, here’s how to join.
https://membership.nra.org/MultiStep/JoinToday

 

[LukSkyFokker]

Fair enough. If you change your mind, here’s how to join.
https://membership.nra.org/MultiStep/JoinToday

I also don't support losers.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I also don't support losers.

From a legislative effectiveness perspective, they have a pretty decent winning record. The NRA-ILA is kicking ass. Some excellent wins recently here in CA. But I understand your point. The NRA’s legal battle with the state of NY is dogging them, as are their internal conflicts. But there lots of other great 2A groups you can join.

 

[pecksniff]

Founded in 1871, the NRA pre-dates the NCAAP and ACLU.

The NRA was founded by two veteran officers of the Civil War who had noticed than many Union soldiers, never having handled a gun before they enlisted, were very poor shots. Its original purpose was to teach marksmanship; secondarily, firearms safety (see this NRA comic book). The NRA was mostly for gun-control laws, until gun nuts took over the organization in an institutional coup in 1977.

 

[pecksniff]

Natural rights is a philosophy that dates back to the Middle Ages or even earlier. So no, not the same as physics or chemistry. The concept profoundly influenced our Declaration of Independence and our Bill of Rights. Google it if you must.

None of that supports its validity.

 

[CornusKousa]

Correct...the 2nd Amendment was solely about making sure The King would not return, not think about returning...it was practical at the time. It isn't practical or necessary anymore.

There is no such thing as "natural" rights or "sovereign Individuals". It's pure quackery!

I understand you don't think people have the right to defend themselves, my psychopathic authoritarians don't, but in the USA where we do recognize this right in all but the bluest and most authoritarian of shit holes.

It's practical and necessary because self defense is a natural right.

 

[pecksniff]

It's practical and necessary because self defense is a natural right.

There are no natural rights.

 

[CornusKousa]

There are no natural rights.

What a fantastically authoritarian thing to say, the outright rejection of the very core of liberalism.

 

[pecksniff]

What a fantastically authoritarian thing to say, the outright rejection of the very core of liberalism.

One can defend the value or desirability of certain rights without assuming they have any basis in "nature." The concept of rights mostly comes up in the law, which is a strictly human invention, created rather than discovered by human minds.

 

[JohnnySavage]

I have a few dozen guns. I'm one of 70,000,000 other Americans that own guns. No big deal.

 

[CornusKousa]

One can defend the value or desirability of certain rights without assuming they have any basis in "nature."

Sure and decide "rights" are little more than a legal speed bump in the way of you getting your way.

The concept of rights mostly comes up in the law, which is a strictly human invention, created rather than discovered by human minds.

From the liberal perspective, the legal recognition of rights, doesn't determine the rights.

Rights exist regardless of legal or physical infringement upon those rights.... thus they are natural rights.

The right to life/self defense for example is almost universal for all living things. Put any animal including a human into a corner and under threat what happens??

They might try to play meek or opossum but at some point if you poke them enough they all turn and defend themselves tooth and nail to the very end. No law or regulation or level of infringement upon that right will stop that. No state authority or regulation needed, it just is.

The authoritarian concept of "rights" portrays them as things the government bestows upon it's people. Liberals look at it the exact opposite, we see the state infringing upon liberty we already have naturally. That's why the liberals who wrote the Bill of Rights wrote it out as a list of shit the government isn't allowed to do, not a list of things the people are allowed.

 

[pecksniff]

I have a few dozen guns.

Who needs more than one? Or maybe two -- one for home defense, one for hunting.

 

[pecksniff]

Rights exist regardless of legal or physical infringement upon those rights.... thus they are natural rights.

The right to life/self defense for example is almost universal for all living things. Put any animal including a human into a corner and under threat what happens??

They might try to play meek or opossum but at some point if you poke them enough they all turn and defend themselves tooth and nail to the very end. No law or regulation or level of infringement upon that right will stop that. No state authority or regulation needed, it just is.

That is merely a psychological fact. It does not prove the existence of any "natural right" to self-defense.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Who needs more than one? Or maybe two -- one for home defense, one for hunting.

Who needs more than one car?

I like guns. That's all the justification I need.