A few "religious" questions

[galaxygoddess]

There's a story (novel) I've been writing on for awhile and that first part is where I'm having problems. The rest of it came easy, but the first part I have some gaping holes in the first part. I tried to do my own research but didn't quite find what I was looking for, and I tried to ask on some religion forums and got chastised for trying to write about "something I'm not familiar about".


Well to be perfectly freaking honest, that's not the theme of my book, I just wanted to be accurate on some minor details, I wasn't trying to start a religion! *sigh


Ok, my questions:

My character finds an old cathedral in the middle of nowhere to fix it up. I want to know a good name for it. Like "st cross" or something like that.

Were all cathedrals like that, with stained glass and everything (I want to paint the picture like it's some kind of holy castle or something, not just a basic church) confined to just one religion? Were Catholics the only religion to have big huge ornate churches?

Are Catholics the only religions that do "confession booths"? Were they really not allowed to share the confession with anyone? Were they allowed to write the confessions down? Did they maybe?

What do you call the guy who goes around giving last rights to dying people? (I got screamed at for being insensitive about this question) Is that confined to only certain religions or could any religion request this (again called insensitive).

Here’s a biggy I wanted to know and was chewed out for asking:

Were catholic priests really not allowed to get married? Is any other religion like this?

This is probably a bunch of misconceptions and I might offend someone with these questions, but I'd rather offend someone with the question and get an accurate answer, than blindly screw up the facts in my story and have a BUNCH more people angry with me.

 

[English Lady]

I've seen Churches called St Cross, so that would work as a name.

Church of England (Anglican) churches have very ornate buildings as well as catholics, generally Methodist and bptist churches I've seen have been smaller and less ornate, but many still have stained windows and big stone arches etc.

Catholics, as far as I know are the only ones that do the confessionals thing and as to what happens with confession, well you'll need a friendly Catholic to answer that one for you but I'm pretty sure a confession is imensely confidential and is between priest and confessor only.

I think the person who gives the last rites is a priest, I don't know if there are particular clergymen who do it. Also, I think it is a Catholic thing, but I know a Vicar from any church would visit a dying person from their parish but I don't think anyone but Catholics do the last rites.

Catholic priests weren't and aren't allowed to get married again I think this is only Catholics, least it is now but I'm not a theologian so I'm not 100% sure.


I hope that helps a bit

 

[Recidiva]

I've always bought "Our Lady of the..." names.

Whether it's the mountain or the glen, it's local and easy to believe.

Yes, catholic priests are not allowed to get married. There are too many "religions" to draw any other sort of conclusion about whether they're "like that"

Like what who how?

 

[drksideofthemoon]

There's a story (novel) I've been writing on for awhile and that first part is where I'm having problems. The rest of it came easy, but the first part I have some gaping holes in the first part. I tried to do my own research but didn't quite find what I was looking for, and I tried to ask on some religion forums and got chastised for trying to write about "something I'm not familiar about".


Well to be perfectly freaking honest, that's not the theme of my book, I just wanted to be accurate on some minor details, I wasn't trying to start a religion! *sigh


Ok, my questions:

My character finds an old cathedral in the middle of nowhere to fix it up. I want to know a good name for it. Like "st cross" or something like that.

Were all cathedrals like that, with stained glass and everything (I want to paint the picture like it's some kind of holy castle or something, not just a basic church) confined to just one religion? Were Catholics the only religion to have big huge ornate churches?

Are Catholics the only religions that do "confession booths"? Were they really not allowed to share the confession with anyone? Were they allowed to write the confessions down? Did they maybe?

What do you call the guy who goes around giving last rights to dying people? (I got screamed at for being insensitive about this question) Is that confined to only certain religions or could any religion request this (again called insensitive).

Here’s a biggy I wanted to know and was chewed out for asking:

Were catholic priests really not allowed to get married? Is any other religion like this?

This is probably a bunch of misconceptions and I might offend someone with these questions, but I'd rather offend someone with the question and get an accurate answer, than blindly screw up the facts in my story and have a BUNCH more people angry with me.

Use a name of a saint for your cathedral...St. James, St. Peter, something like that...

No, a priest is not supposed to share your confession with anyone.

A lot of religions have big ornate places of worship.

The last rites, which is one of the sacraments (Baptism, Communion, Marriage etc) can only be delivered by a priest, it's absolution for your sins.

As far as I know, the Catholics are the only ones with a confessional.

At one time Catholic priests were allowed to marry, but this was changed sometime in the middle ages. Nuns wear a silver ring on their ring finger to symbolize their marriage to Christ.

 

[Equinoxe]

Churches such as the one you describe are dedicated to heavenly notables, such as Saints: sometimes these are not people, but rather aspects of them. It might be a good idea to find a list of Saints or existing Churches and choose a name which you find most suitable.

Catholics are not the only Christian denomination which have ornate churches: churches of other denominations such as the Anglican Communion are often ornate, although Catholic churches tend to be the most ornate churches in the Western Rite. The ornamentation of Eastern Rite churches is notably different from those of the Western Rite and not especially suitable to the idea you're going for, I don't think. It is also worth noting that 'Cathedral' is a technical designation which refers to a church that is the seat of Bishop.

Catholics are the only denomination which has confessional booths, as such, although they are not the only denomination which recognises the Sacrament of Confession. Eastern Rite Churches also recognise the Sacrament of Confession and require that one's confessor be authorised by the Bishop to hear confessions, but not necessarily that they be members of the clergy (but they almost always are). Lutheranism also traditionally recognises Confession given to a pastor in private as sacramental, although in a much less formal way (as is their wont). Protestant denominations generally prefer a broad silent congregational confession within the church service itself, though.

Last Rites are a collection of Sacraments (Extreme Unction, Confession, and the Eucharist), and as such, may only be performed by a Priest.

Latin Rite Catholic Priests are not allowed to marry, although Eastern Rite Catholic Priests (as well as Eastern Orthodox Priests) are, though they must be married before ordination. Monastic clergy, from which bishops of the Eastern Rite (Catholic or Orthodox) are traditionally chosen, are required to be celebate in both the Latin Rite and Eastern Rites. Historically, at times, Catholic clergy have been allowed to marry and could be allowed to in the future, since it is a disciplinary rule and not a doctrinal rule, though it is Biblical in origin.

There are other religions which place such restrictions on clergy, though they non-Christian, which seems particularly outside your idea, but I'm going to mention it anyway. Most notably, Buddhism has celibate clergy, or rather, most denominations of Buddhism have celibate clergy. In accordance with the each of the disciplines (Vinaya) of Theravada, Mahayana, and Vajrayana, bhikkus (monks) and bhikkunis (nuns) are not even allowed to be alone with a member of the opposite sex. The clergy of some Buddhist denominations (especially in Japan and amongst Zen practitioners) are not technically bhikkus and bhikkunis and hence are not obliged to be celibate (hence, much of the Western Buddhist clergy is not either).

 

[galaxygoddess]

All of this is proving extremely helpful thank you all very much! Especially some other information I have been sent ^.^


See if this sounds plausible for a character set up: (this is what I already had, but with your help it's expanding)

The main character, was either studying to be or was a catholic priest, but he fell in love with a woman working at a hospice whom he ran into while giving last rights to a dying patient. He left the clergy and they both are pursuing a dream of rebuilding a church. They find a heavily ornate church in the middle of no where they wish to restore to it's former beauty. I haven't decided if they are going to open a form of a church or if it will have some other purpose (can you have another purpose?) as they clean it up they find old papers within the "attic" and begin dechipering them. SOmeone assumes they must be chronolized (I can't think of the right word right now) "confessions".


Does that work? I'm working on the actual church location by researching further into some other information someone sent me about where a church like this might be located.

 

[3113]

My character finds an old cathedral in the middle of nowhere to fix it up. I want to know a good name for it. Like "st cross" or something like that.

Were all cathedrals like that, with stained glass and everything (I want to paint the picture like it's some kind of holy castle or something, not just a basic church) confined to just one religion? Were Catholics the only religion to have big huge ornate churches?

As said, a lot of religions have ornate "Churches" but certainly Catholic Churches were the ones that really went for the stained glass windows. The idea in the oldest Churches was that the windows would tell bible stories, as the congregation was usually both illiterate and not suppose to read the Bible anyway. The windows told them the stories, as did statutes, paintings and, in one case, a famous ceiling.

Here's the thing: An old church with stained glass and the like *might* have originally be Catholic, but then taken over by some other religion. When the English Church came into being, monasteries and their churches were taken over. Some torn down completely, others made Church of England. So, depending on how you're telling the story, the church might have gone through all sorts of changes in its long history.

Are Catholics the only religions that do "confession booths"? Were they really not allowed to share the confession with anyone? Were they allowed to write the confessions down? Did they maybe?

The only religion question was answered--but in answer to your other questions, no, no, and, er, no, not if they were a good priest. A priest cannot write down a confession, cannot tell it to anyone, and unless they were demented or drugged, likely wouldn't.

What do you call the guy who goes around giving last rights to dying people? (I got screamed at for being insensitive about this question) Is that confined to only certain religions or could any religion request this (again called insensitive).

I'm amazed that you got yelled at about this. One would think that people would jump at the chance to educate others on their religion. Only a Catholic can ask for last rites. I'm not Catholic, but I had a friend who was a nun and I learned a bit--last rites involve that reenactment of the last supper (the Eucharist)--you are given a sip of wine and a bit of cracker (specially made and blessed), which are the blood and body of Christ.

ONLY Catholics are allow to partake of this. So, as it's part of last rites, last rites can't be given to anyone who is not Catholic.

Now here's the interesting thing--and I believe it was discussed in another thread--*anyone* can baptize you Catholic. This is for extreme situations, but it's viewed as important enough that anyone can do it for you. And I *believe* the Baptism, a rite which leaves your soul cleansed of sin, would do a similar job as Last Rites if you were on your death bed; that is, it would cleanse you of your sins (as compared to absolving you of your sins as Last Rites do), and affirm you in the Catholic faith.

I'm not Catholic or a religious expert, however so I might be wrong there.

 

[3113]

The main character, was either studying to be or was a catholic priest, but he fell in love with a woman working at a hospice whom he ran into while giving last rights to a dying patient.

I don't believe he'd be able to give last rites unless he *WAS* a priest--not just studying to be a priest.

He left the clergy and they both are pursuing a dream of rebuilding a church. They find a heavily ornate church in the middle of no where they wish to restore to it's former beauty.

All by themselves? Those churches are huge. I recommend you think of something small like a chapel. They can be as beautiful and ornate, but not nearly so daunting to repair.

SOmeone assumes they must be chronolized (I can't think of the right word right now) "confessions".

Better be a good reason for the priest who wrote down those confessions to have done such a thing--it goes against his holy vows to keep confessions absolutely secret and private forever.

 

[galaxygoddess]

I don't believe he'd be able to give last rites unless he *WAS* a priest--not just studying to be a priest.

Ok, ty that makes a lot of sense.

All by themselves? Those churches are huge. I recommend you think of something small like a chapel. They can be as beautiful and ornate, but not nearly so daunting to repair.

Good point, I need to look up some references to smaller churches then. I have in my mind what it looks like, But I'm trying to figure out how to get it across where they are and why.

Better be a good reason for the priest who wrote down those confessions to have done such a thing--it goes against his holy vows to keep confessions absolutely secret and private forever.

This is why I ask. I'd hate to truck along with this and then people start screaming "how dare I". But could it be workable if they find a diary of some kind or a lockbox? or something?

 

[Sara Crewe]

I don't believe he'd be able to give last rites unless he *WAS* a priest--not just studying to be a priest.


All by themselves? Those churches are huge. I recommend you think of something small like a chapel. They can be as beautiful and ornate, but not nearly so daunting to repair.


Better be a good reason for the priest who wrote down those confessions to have done such a thing--it goes against his holy vows to keep confessions absolutely secret and private forever.

I agree with 3113. We have a Cathedral in our city and it took over a hundred years to build and thousands of workers. Actually we have two Cathedrals, one Catholic and one Anglican. Both churches are named after saints. It took thousands of labourers to construct these buildings so the idea of a couple of people doing anything significant to this type of building is a little far fetched.

There is a smaller chapel that is connected to the Catholic Cathedral which is used for smaller masses and sometimes tiny funerals and weddings. It has a separate name from the Cathedral despite the fact that they are physically connected.


On another note, if he was 'caught' celebrating sacraments if he was actually not a Priest there is a good chance that he would be excommunicated.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Nomenclature point: You used the term "cathedral," and my first thought was those are rather grand and unlikely to be dicovered as an available "fixer upper." My second thought was the first definition described in the wiki article, but I wasn't sure, so checked. By that definition, it is not something you'll find lying around:

A cathedral is a Christian church that contains the seat of a bishop. In more detailed terms it is a religious building for worship, specifically of a denomination with an episcopal hierarchy, such as the Roman Catholic, Anglican and some Lutheran churches, which serves as a bishop's seat, and thus as the central church of a diocese.[1]

There are certain deviations on the use of the term "cathedral"; for example, some pre-Reformation cathedrals in Scotland now within the Church of Scotland still retain the term cathedral, despite the Church's Presbyterian polity which does not have bishops. As cathedrals are often particularly impressive edifices, the term is often used incorrectly as a designation for any large important church.

 

[Sara Crewe]

Ok, ty that makes a lot of sense.



Good point, I need to look up some references to smaller churches then. I have in my mind what it looks like, But I'm trying to figure out how to get it across where they are and why.



This is why I ask. I'd hate to truck along with this and then people start screaming "how dare I". But could it be workable if they find a diary of some kind or a lockbox? or something?

I dont think so. The priest is really there to 'remember' anyone's confession so it would be inappropriate to write it down. He is only there to act as 'the middle man' between the person and God. He isn't supposed to take any ownership of what he is told.

It would definitely be seen as betrayal of his vows to write down a confession. The confession is for God alone.


As for the people yellin' at you. How the freak do they expect people to learn without asking questions.


Good for you for trying to get it 'right'.

 

[galaxygoddess]

See this is way more helpful than "how dare you write about something you know nothing of".


I have a story in my mind, and I want to make it workable and viable without ruining the integrity of the story. I would hate to think I wrote the most wonderful thing and then find out I was so horribly inaccurate. This is all extremely helpful

It also gives me more to think about on other stories as well, because I know and you all know, there's more to writing something than slapping down an idea on paper and calling it a story.


This is something I really want to run with and expand on, but without all this useful information, it just sits there dead threatening to write itself with all the innaccuracies included.

I'm also learning more about a subject I knew nothing of which makes me happy


So I thank you all for you help.


So far, he needs to actually be a priest to be giving last rites, I need to find a smaller scale church setting, and no one in their right mind would keep a log of "confessionals".


There's some other things, but those are the most glaring details that would have someone throwing away my work before getting to the meat of the story.

 

[English Lady]

This is why I ask. I'd hate to truck along with this and then people start screaming "how dare I". But could it be workable if they find a diary of some kind or a lockbox? or something?

You couldn't/shouldn't do that as a priest, but maybe he was hearing confessions that were driving him to madness with mental images and so wrote them down to get them out of him and locked them up and hid them away so that he could put them to rest? It's a bit far fetched and you might still get alot of uproar from using it, but I think it is viable, least in my mind it is

 

[forevervoyaging]

You mentioned the building maybe being used for something else...

If it more in the line of a chapel or smaller structure, they were "reclaimed" and used for other things all the time. I went to graduate school at a place where the computer room was a converted chapel. Soaring ceilings, ornate stonework...row upon row of workstations. Quite a different atmosphere than your average dungeon computer room!

I have also heard of old chapels being used for anything from a printing press to a political headquarters to an ammunition depot to a meeting hall for a different religion.

 

[BlackShanglan]

So far, he needs to actually be a priest to be giving last rites, I need to find a smaller scale church setting, and no one in their right mind would keep a log of "confessionals".


There's some other things, but those are the most glaring details that would have someone throwing away my work before getting to the meat of the story.

It's all good advice you've gotten so far. However, you've also made me smile and remember going to Colleen Thomas with a question about human psychology. "Would a character with X and X experiences logically and believably be able to do Y? " I asked. Her answer was superb and I think of it often: "She will if you write her that way."

Yes, you definitely need a church that is not currently a cathedral in the sense of housing a bishop. But it's still possible for it to look grand and appealing, and a character might well think that it looks like a cathedral. The real question to answer is why the church would be abandoned. Church buildings are important symbolically and religiously, they represent a substantial investment of time and money, and they normally are built to serve a population that exists at the site - all reasons for one not to be abandoned in the middle of nowhere. So what sort of history and causation could recognize and deal with those obstacles? If you've got a good answer that makes sense, then the character can indeed find such a church.

I think the same way about the priest writing down a log of confessions. It's good to recognize the barriers to this action: it's expressly forbidden, it's a violation of his vows of duty to his congregation, it's likely to get him in a great deal of trouble with his superiors if it's found, and it's probably a good deal of work as well. So what motivation could a character have to take those actions despite those barriers? If there is a plausible answer, then the character can. Perhaps it's helpless adoring lust on the priest's part, or suspicion that a terrible crime had been committed, or belief that he was engaged in spiritual work (as in "still trying to think of a way to help X with this problem ... what would Thomas Aquinas tell me?"). So long as the solution recognizes that the barriers are there and gives readers an idea of why the priest chooses to act as he does despite them, it can work.

Of course, some readers are just irritable. Comments on the stories in the "Loving Wives" category are filled with evidence that for some people, "X's don't normally do Y" is not a statement of probability, but of absolute reality. If you do run into one of those - "A priest would never, ever write down a confession! He is expressly forbidden to!" - by all means ask innocently if there's going to be a problem with the next installment in which he has sexual contact with an altar boy, which you've just remembered is also expressly forbidden.

Shanglan

 

[tickledkitty]

I have an idea about the chapel. I'd make it a chapel so that it can be roomy but not huge. How about if the couple is planning on living there? It could be this big lofty space with the stained glass windows intact, modern conveniences added, etc.

 

[Gavionn]

You've already gotten some good advice, so I'll try not to be redundant.

As has been pointed out already, it would be VERY unlikely for someone to stumble across an ornate church or chapel "in the middle of nowhere" that had just fallen into disrepair. Unless, that is you have already introduced the locale as a former bustling village or town that had been "mysteriously abandoned" or something.

What might come off as more believable would be if they were exploring the shell of a burned-out building and came across relics that designated it as a former church. Or if they took possesion of a building that had been used for something else, but turned out to have originally been a church.

As to the former Priest having written his congregant's confessions down? No way... lose that train of thought. Much like psychiatric professionals, the only way a Priest might unload such information would be in confession to another Priest. It would never be recorded for posterity.

I don't know what you're hoping to unearth in the recorded confessions, but another way to accomplish it might be to have your characters discover old files or newspaper clippings.

As a blatant example: Let's say you were trying to establish that the Priest had involved himself in something decidedly against the church's teachings. Like an abortion. He would never write down that a 16 year old girl from his flock had confessed to him that she had become pregnant and had an abortion. However... if he took mercy on the girl and saw as a human being that she needed help... maybe he used the church coffers to pay for the procedure. Your characters might find a payment to a clinic buried in the church's financial papers, and do a little research to discover what exactly that clinic specialized in.

Or if he had counciled a murderer, he might have save the newspaper clippings that described the guilty partie's aquittal.

Just my .02. Best of luck with your story.

BTW: There is a website called EvilBible.com that is made up of mostly Aitheists who are experts in most aspects of organized religion. They would likely be able to help you, without berating you for asking.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

There's a story (novel) I've been writing on for awhile and that first part is where I'm having problems. I tried to do my own research but didn't quite find what I was looking for, and I tried to ask on some . . . forums and got chastised for trying to write about "something I'm not familiar about."

Hmm, then I quess that sci-fi number I was contemplating, "Gay Multi-Tentacled Alien Sex Triangles" is right out. Darn.