9/11 vs. Katrina

[thebullet]

Why does black mean poor? Or why do you start with the argument or supposition, that the black are poor? BAD YOU

BAD YOU, CharleyH. Were you watching the pictures on your TV? It was a sea of black faces. 50% of the black children of New Orleans were living below the poverty level. That is 1/2 of the children!

It is certainly not racist or politically incorrect to point out the obvious. Lady Jeanne was quite correct

Perhaps the major long-term question will be: when will we treat our poor as fully privileged citizens of the United States?

It is difficult not to view the lack of response by our government as racially or economically motivated.

Indifference. Perhaps the government was just indifferent about the fate of these, the least of our citizens.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Why does black mean poor? Or why do you start with the argument or supposition, that the black are poor? BAD YOU!

THESE black people are poor. The people, black, white, and eveything in between, who had means and a way to get there, evacuated.

 

[CharleyH]

BAD YOU, CharleyH. Were you watching the pictures on your TV? It was a sea of black faces. 50% of the black children of New Orleans were living below the poverty level. That is 1/2 of the children!

It is certainly not racist or politically incorrect to point out the obvious. Lady Jeanne was quite correct

Perhaps the major long-term question will be: when will we treat our poor as fully privileged citizens of the United States?

It is difficult not to view the lack of response by our government as racially or economically motivated.

Indifference. Perhaps the government was just indifferent about the fate of these, the least of our citizens.

What are you talking about? Is poverty not .... I stand by what I said, earlier.

 

[fifty5]

From the UK, I'm totally gob-smacked by this one!

It appears that the problem was foreseen. (Bush lied about that.)

The US has resources sufficient to re-do Iraq, so why doesn't it have the resources to cope with New Orleans?

Why is this such a big deal, when the typhoon that hit China the week before wasn't even worth reporting?

My appolgies if this post doesn't seem sympathetic (which isn't my true position), but, as in line 1, I'm gobsmacked!

 

[thebullet]

CharleyH said:
What are you talking about? Is poverty not black in the south? I stand by what I said, earlier.

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I interpreted your statement: "Why does black mean poor?" to mean that you did not equate poverty with skin color. I was merely replying that in the case of New Orleans, there is certainly a very close correlation between skin color and economic position, i.e. for the most part, black equals poor.

Certainly there are plenty of people of all color who are suffering through this awful disaster. But in the Big Easy, poor people of color are represented disproportionatly.

If I misinterpreted your remarks, I sincerely apologize.

 

[CharleyH]

From the UK, I'm totally gob-smacked by this one!

It appears that the problem was foreseen. (Bush lied about that.)

The US has resources sufficient to re-do Iraq, so why doesn't it have the resources to cope with New Orleans?

I would love to answer how wrong you see things without my being slaughtered.

 

[Alex756]

From the UK, I'm totally gob-smacked by this one!

It appears that the problem was foreseen. (Bush lied about that.)

The US has resources sufficient to re-do Iraq, so why doesn't it have the resources to cope with New Orleans?

Why is this such a big deal, when the typhoon that hit China the week before wasn't even worth reporting?

My appolgies if this post doesn't seem sympathetic (which isn't my true position), but, as in line 1, I'm gobsmacked!

An area the size of the UK, yes the UK, the whole thing, was basically destroyed by this storm. Estemates are that 10 thousand people are dead.

The sincer thought of people was that when the levies hadn't geven in the initial storm, the response to the rest of the devestated region started and resources started to move to the 100s dead and 10s of thousands displaced in other areas than NO, until the levee broke, it was honestly thught NO had dodged the bullet again.

I don't think the scope of this disaster is something people are getting. 3 states. an area the size of the UK. Its huge.

-Alex

 

[CharleyH]

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I interpreted your statement: "Why does black mean poor?"

Does it not? Although you misquoted me. ( I read the rest).

 

[CharleyH]

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I interpreted your statement: "Why does black mean poor?" to mean that you did not equate poverty with skin color. I was merely replying that in the case of New Orleans, there is certainly a very close correlation between skin color and economic position, i.e. for the most part, black equals poor.

Certainly there are plenty of people of all color who are suffering through this awful disaster. But in the Big Easy, poor people of color are represented disproportionatly.

If I misinterpreted your remarks, I sincerely apologize.

Read again, you misquote me.

 

[thebullet]

Charley H wrote:
Why does black mean poor? Or why do you start with the argument or supposition, that the black are poor?

I guess I'm dumb, Charley. To me, the above statement means that black DOES NOT mean poor. How am I misquoting you? I copied your statement and printed it.

I am sincerely asking what the heck you mean by your statement, if not that Black does not mean poor? I'm just confused. I have apparantly upset you, but don't know why.

 

[Brinnie Spears]

Don't Forget...

 

[fifty5]

I would love to answer how wrong you see things without my being slaughtered.

An area the size of the UK, yes the UK, the whole thing, was basically destroyed by this storm. Estimates are that 10 thousand people are dead.

The sincer thought of people was that when the levies hadn't geven in the initial storm, the response to the rest of the devestated region started and resources started to move to the 100s dead and 10s of thousands displaced in other areas than NO, until the levee broke, it was honestly thught NO had dodged the bullet again.

I don't think the scope of this disaster is something people are getting. 3 states. an area the size of the UK. Its huge.

-Alex

First an appology - when I posted I hadn't realised the scale of the destruction in the US.

Next, a clarification - "The US has resources sufficient to re-do Iraq, so why doesn't it have the resources to cope with New Orleans?" was intended to be at least a little ironic, with the irony aimed at the US government & president rather than at the nation at large.

I'm still gob-smacked!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I was listening to a news show where they interview various members of the foreign press about how they reported Katrina, and what their readers thought of the disaster.

One reporter, from Malaysia if I recall correctly, said that he wondered if many peoplke would be so eager for Mr. Bush's brand of democracy after seeing what they saw of the kind of society it produces.

More foregn press excerpts are below, taken from LA Weekly

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/43/after-morris.php

------------------------


The Racial Levee

“Against such a backdrop, it does not take much to tear the tissue-thin divide between order and anarchy. Katrina has ripped through it in New Orleans with the force of an atomic bomb. And in such moments, the hidden underclass of American life makes its voice heard in terrifying fashion . . . This is raw anger — anger seeking revenge for generations of poor social conditions, inadequate education and unaffordable health care; revenge for the endemic racism which still thrives in the States.” —The Daily Mail, London


“And, as often, when misfortune strikes the U.S., the social inequalities within it are starkly exposed. Most of the 80 per cent of New Orleans residents who managed to evacuate before the hurricane were white and well off. Most of those who stayed and lost loved ones are predominantly black or Hispanic.” —The New Zealand Herald


“How America now responds to their desperate plight will tell the wider world much about what Americans really value.” —The Herald, Glasgow


“But before we get too piously smug about America, just imagine a flood crashing through the Thames barrier and drowning London and Essex. What would we see? Essentially the same thing, even if mayor Ken Livingstone did evacuation well. The middle classes would escape to friends and relatives. The poor who have no networks beyond other poor people would collect in camps. They would be as pitifully helpless and there would be millions of them too — even for those with basic [bank] accounts, banks never lend so much as a bus fare to those who most need it. Half of London’s children live under the poverty line. So don’t look across the Atlantic and preen over our European values, welfare state and beneficent government. We may do better, but the UN report puts us closer to the US model than to Europe’s.” —Polly Toynbee, The Guardian, London


Our Government’s Response

“The bloody anarchy that has gripped New Orleans these past five days is staggering and tragic. How could it have been allowed to happen? How is it possible that the city’s estimated 80,000 refugees have gone without food and water, some for as many as three days, how could some collapse and die while waiting for buses that never came? How could supposedly safe havens, such as the Superdome and the city’s convention center, be permitted to degrade into fetid, lawless hellholes?” —The National Post, Canada


“The Army Corps of Engineers, like every other authority charged with preventing the flooding of New Orleans, has had its budget cut repeatedly in recent years. The Federal Emergency Management Administration has had its resources diverted toward the Bush administration’s ‘war on terror,’ and many of the National Guardsmen who might have been in place to intervene sooner have been diverted to Iraq.” —The Belfast Telegraph


“Up to a third of all national guardsmen in Louisiana and Mississippi are currently serving in Iraq. They simply weren’t available to rescue the stranded or prevent widespread looting after Katrina struck.” —The Herald, Glasgow


“Dudya: No Cash, No Aid, And No Sign of Bush for Five Days” —headline in The Daily Mirror, London


“There’s only one word to describe the Bush administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina — pathetic.” —The Toronto Sun, Canada


“On the left, Katrina has become an opportunity to re-amplify a half decade’s worth of accusations against the Bush administration. The storm, it’s alleged, is the President’s fault for not signing Kyoto. (Never mind that hurricanes have become less frequent over the past 70 years.) The flood, it’s alleged next, is the President’s fault for cutting back flood control budgets (even though the levee that was breached had only just been rebuilt). The disorder, it’s alleged again, is the President’s fault for sending the Louisiana National Guard to Iraq (regardless of the fact that 8,000 of the state’s 11,700 Guardsmen — including four of the state’s five engineering battalions — remained ready at home) . . . Environmentalists who detest dams, canals and all other works of man may now rage at the Bush administration for failing to give the Army Corps of Engineers everything it asked for.” —The National Post, Canada


“President Bush wound his holidays down to fly to California for a Republican Party fundraising event as Lake Pontchartrain poured into New Orleans. An absence of leadership has plagued U.S. rescue efforts since Katrina cut her deadly swathe across the Gulf of Mexico. Confusion and chaos are inevitable parts of any major search and rescue operation, but what we are witnessing, and what the hurricane’s victims are suffering, is so scandalous as to be grotesque. —The Irish Times


“Why are thousands of light, medium and heavy helicopters parked on bases up and down the U.S. while people in New Orleans die? Why has the air force not created a forward airbase on the serviceable runways of the city’s airport? Why are there no military communications systems in place? Why are there no water purification units on the banks of Pontchartrain? Why, on Wednesday, could the Sun Herald, in Biloxi, Mississippi, report horrific stories of death at the city’s junior high school shelters while U.S. Air Force personnel directly across Irish Hill Road were playing basketball and performing calisthenics? Because their commander-in-chief, President Bush, had not ordered them into action.” —The Irish Times


As the Russian Federation’s National Television Network was decrying the Bush Administration’s refusal to allow Moscow’s elite search and rescue team, as well as two helicopter-carrying transport planes, into New Orleans, it showed Americans on rooftops holding up signs reading, “Help.” Meanwhile, Russia’s TASS News Agency ran the following headline: “U.S. Thanks Russia for Offer of Help, Says It Can Handle Crisis.”


Whitey Loots, Too

“Holidaymakers Teresa Cherrie, 42, a nurse, and her partner, John Drysdale, 41, a lorry driver, from Renfrew in Scotland, were forced to join in the looting to find food in New Orleans. The couple were desperately awaiting rescue on the roof on an apartment block with 10 American refugees in the French quarter of Baton Rouge. They were forced to scavenge and steal food from supermarkets while trying to hide from the gangs that roam the streets of the lawless city.” —Scottish Press Association


“Officials at the shelter ‘totally let us down,’ he told reporters at the [Houston] Astrodome. The floors were covered in dog and cat waste and there was nothing to eat or drink, he said, adding: ‘We were left to starve.’ Mr. Mackels said he and other men had to find boats on dry ground and loot grocery and convenience stores to get food and drink to the hundreds in the high school. ‘There were people passing out left and right. We had to loot. I had no choice,’ he said.” —The Irish Times


“In one report, New Orleans radio station WWL claimed that looters were helping feed those huddled inside the Superdome. Earlier that same day, FEMA and the U.S. military suspended relief supplies to the giant concrete refugee camp when it was reported that a single shot was fired at one military helicopter. How is it that street gangs can achieve what trained emergency professionals and soldiers could not? —The National Post, Canada


Kinder and Gentler Coverage

“We have difficulty comprehending that the clusters of people, their clothing ragged, their bodies mud-streaked, waiting to board vehicles that will take them from their wrecked or submerged homes, are Americans. Many of these images could just as well be of the aftermath of a typhoon that lashed southern China, Taiwan or the Philippines . . . Even if our money may not be needed, at the least we should be offering moral support.” —South China Morning Post


“The rest of the world that has benefited from American generosity should show solidarity with Americans who are now picking up the pieces. Regardless of what other peoples think of the U.S. government and its foreign policies, most of the world owes it to themselves to reciprocate goodwill to the American people.” —The Nation, Thailand

 

[CharleyH]

I guess I'm dumb, Charley. To me, the above statement means that black DOES NOT mean poor. How am I misquoting you? I copied your statement and printed it.

I am sincerely asking what the heck you mean by your statement, if not that Black does not mean poor?

No one upsets me LOL, this is a public board, what am I going to do? Cry? But you probably quoted me right, right now. Black does not mean poor, and I cant be bothered to argue or go back and see what got your panties in a bunch. You wear them, right? I came here to see Docs post

 

[CharleyH]

I was listening to a news show where they interview various members of the foreign press about how they reported Katrina, and what their readers thought of the disaster.

One reporter, from Malaysia if I recall correctly, said that he wondered if many peoplke would be so eager for Mr. Bush's brand of democracy after seeing what they saw of the kind of society it produces.

More foregn press excerpts are below, taken from LA Weekly

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/43/after-morris.php

------------------------

So what is your question Doc? For those that do not know ... The National Post, and Toronto Sun are almost the same, at least they used to be owned by Conrad Black, and both have interests toward blue collar or socialist appeals, mainly lower class. A papers worth depends on the mandate and objectives of those who produce it. Why no quotes from the good liberal and artistic Toronto Star, or perhaps the more conservative and intellectual Globe and Mail?

I have always said: DO NOT listen to the news unless you know the political agenda of the paper or station.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

So what is your question Doc?

I'm open to suggestions.

It just seems to me... We've spent something like half a trillion dollars to turn Iraq into either a US puppet regime or an Iraqi puppet regime. Was it worth it? Well, I guess if they become a US puppet it might be, but I doubt it. Does anyone feel safer because we're in Iraq? Half a trillion dollars safer?

I watched FEMA fuck-up with Katrina, and now I'm watching FEMA fuck-up with evacuating Houston, and the reason FEMA is fucking up is because it's been turned into an anti-terrorist organization. Everything's been turned into an anti-terrorist organization.

Certainly terrorism is a problem, but is it really the number one problem in the world?

 

[CharleyH]

I'm open to suggestions.

It just seems to me... We've spent something like half a trillion dollars to turn Iraq into either a US puppet regime or an Iraqi puppet regime. Was it worth it? Well, I guess if they become a US puppet it might be, but I doubt it. Does anyone feel safer because we're in Iraq? Half a trillion dollars safer?

I watched FEMA fuck-up with Katrina, and now I'm watching FEMA fuck-up with evacuating Houston, and the reason FEMA is fucking up is because it's been turned into an anti-terrorist organization. Everything's been turned into an anti-terrorist organization.

Certainly terrorism is a problem, but is it really the number one problem in the world?

Interesting. I will answer in a couple of days.

 

[cantdog]

The 9-11 commission made concrete recommendations about how to enhance our safety. Bush was more concerned with Iraq, re-election, and many other matters, Hallibuton contracts, dissolving the bill of rights in a bath of fear, quite a list.

Would a well-placed charge at the levees not have dumped Pontchartrain into the city quite as nicely as the windstorm did?

That charge going off would at least have been a surprise. Hurricanes come every year. Gulf waters are warm every year. The state of the levees and so on was absolutely known at every level, but again, the feds had other priorities than safety and preparedness.

The mayor is outraged because he knew just exactly why his city was left without support. No one gave a shit.

Certainly the 9-11 commission members are outraged that so little action resulted from their work. But no one gave a shit there, either.

Equally, this is a very big one over a very large area. Yes, it is. But it didn't have to be. A much smaller incident would have caught us flatfooted.