9/11 vs. Katrina

[dr_mabeuse]

I was on the way to the dentist on 9/11/01 when I heard about the first plane flying into the Twin Towers on the radio. Naive as I was, I didn't think it was that big a deal. I remembered that in the late '40's or early '50's an air force bomber had flown into the Empire State Building in the fog, with minimal loss of life and not much damage. I figured this was something similar, a tragic accident. I had no idea I was listening to the defining event of the new century.

I didn't make the same mistake when the Katrina tragedy began. Once I heard that New Orleans was under water, I was glued to my TV in shock.

My question is, which tragedy will have a bigger effect on the future of US planning and politics? WIll this signal a change in the country's priorities? Will this change the way people think about "Big Government"?

 

[sweetnpetite]

I was on the way to the dentist on 9/11/01 when I heard about the first plane flying into the Twin Towers on the radio. Naive as I was, I didn't think it was that big a deal. I remembered that in the late '40's or early '50's an air force bomber had flown into the Empire State Building in the fog, with minimal loss of life and not much damage. I figured this was something similar, a tragic accident. I had no idea I was listening to the defining event of the new century.

I didn't make the same mistake when the Katrina tragedy began. Once I heard that New Orleans was under water, I was glued to my TV in shock.

My question is, which tragedy will have a bigger effect on the future of US planning and politics? WIll this signal a change in the country's priorities? Will this change the way people think about "Big Government"?

doubt it.

I also thought that a) it was an accident and b) not a big deal when I first heard about 9/11. IN fact, I'm ashamed to say that my first words were "what's that got to do with me"

I'd like to think that our focus would change. Our priorities. But I just dont' see that happening. The government will probably be more focused on punishing looters than helping Katrina's victims. Oh wait- they already are.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

My question is, which tragedy will have a bigger effect on the future of US planning and politics? I think 9/11 will still have the bigger impact only because it was an act of terrorism. We left our guard down and made too many mistakes in assuming that these people wouldn't go to such a degree and attack the states.




WIll this signal a change in the country's priorities? We can only hope but I doubt it, we are still feeling too secure and all knowing. We have a tendency to not learn from mistakes and be more prepared for such things because we feel we are impervious.






Will this change the way people think about "Big Government I think it already has, it's the people themselves that are rushing to donate and assist.

JMO.

 

[The_Darkness]

I was on the way to the dentist on 9/11/01 when I heard about the first plane flying into the Twin Towers on the radio. Naive as I was, I didn't think it was that big a deal. I remembered that in the late '40's or early '50's an air force bomber had flown into the Empire State Building in the fog, with minimal loss of life and not much damage. I figured this was something similar, a tragic accident. I had no idea I was listening to the defining event of the new century.

I didn't make the same mistake when the Katrina tragedy began. Once I heard that New Orleans was under water, I was glued to my TV in shock.

My question is, which tragedy will have a bigger effect on the future of US planning and politics? WIll this signal a change in the country's priorities? Will this change the way people think about "Big Government"?

I don't think this will trigger a change in policies. Natural disasters are something that we can be prepared for with food stocks (which we already have) levees (which were in place) and emergency equipment (which was down there) such as trucks, boats, etc. The problem is, no one can predict accurately where and when a natural disaster such as a hurricane will hit--unless you live in Florida, but I digress.

There really isn't much we could have done about this one. Higher sea walls and levees? The barriers they had were working fine. Build 'em bigger after Katrina? Undoubtedly, but how high is obscenely high, and how long will it be before even those are overcome? We're not even to the awful part of the huricane season yet and we've had 11 named storms already. I highly doubt that the gulf coast has had its final hurrah for the season, and that's exactly the reason I never moved south when I had opportunities.

I'm not watching the news on this one, but I don't see how big government, or smaller government as the case may have it, will do any better or worse at handling it. I read on CNN.com that the mayor of New Orleans is verbally bashing the feds for dropping the ball and not sending aid fast enough. People are dying, but that's a result of stretched resources on an already weakened reserve core of engineers and military.

If anything, it will prompt a discussion on how many of our fighting folks are left at home during a time of war, but then the discussion will roll back to recruitment rates and ages and the ilk.

I think the war in Iraq will have a drastic weight in the speed inwhich New Orleans gets dried out and rebuilt. We don't have all of the man power we need for rescue and rebuild right now.

 

[impressive]

My question is, which tragedy will have a bigger effect on the future of US planning and politics?

9/11 ... no doubt.

"Natural" disasters won't change behaviors as much because, quite frankly, we don't learn from them. We should, but we don't. Little will change. Structures will be rebuilt with exactly the same vulnerabilities in exactly the same locations. Public works will be restored with exactly the same vulnerabilities -- 'cause it's a gamble that a storm of this magnitude won't come along again for quite a while.

With "unnatural" disasters, we can lash out ... retaliate ... and wipe the vile threat *snort* off the face of the planet. Can't do that with a hurricane, so all the righteous indignation which predominantly fuels change is lost.

Working smarter just isn't enough of an impetus for us.

 

[sophia jane]

My question is, which tragedy will have a bigger effect on the future of US planning and politics? WIll this signal a change in the country's priorities? Will this change the way people think about "Big Government"?

I don't know if you heard President Bush's remarks in Biloxi. He was asked if the guard getting to NO was slowed because of diminished capacity because of Iraq. His reply was to the effect that no, we can do both. We can fight against terrorism (is that what they're still calling the situation in Iraq? ) and take care of our own and home. He came out and clearly stated that we can do both; now he has to prove it. If the government doesn't come through for NO and Mississippi, it will be a huge wake-up call to the citizens of the US that we are, in fact, now incapable of taking care of our own.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I was on the way to the dentist on 9/11/01 when I heard about the first plane flying into the Twin Towers on the radio. Naive as I was, I didn't think it was that big a deal. I remembered that in the late '40's or early '50's an air force bomber had flown into the Empire State Building in the fog, with minimal loss of life and not much damage. I figured this was something similar, a tragic accident. I had no idea I was listening to the defining event of the new century.

I didn't make the same mistake when the Katrina tragedy began. Once I heard that New Orleans was under water, I was glued to my TV in shock.

My question is, which tragedy will have a bigger effect on the future of US planning and politics? WIll this signal a change in the country's priorities? Will this change the way people think about "Big Government"?

I think the lessons we learn from natural disasters are more fleeting than those we learn from other things. There seems to be an inate fatalism in people, one that eventually reutrns to hoping it doesn't happen.

Realistically, the only way to make hurricanes less fatal is to abandon the coastal plains. The only way to make earthquakes less catastropic is to abandon fault lines and their immediate environs. The only wy to make blizzards less destructive is to live far enough south tthat they don't occur. the only way to make tornados less killer is to not live in the flat lands. And when you get done? there is no place to hide when mother nature turns deadly, in one form or another.

That reality means people take their chances on one or antoher wherever they live and with that as a backdrop, you basically take your chances and live with the hazard.

i do think that fatalism translates into not paying as much heed to lesonslearned.

 

[glynndah]

There are a lot of people who seem to be blaming the victims of Katrina. They should have evacuated sooner, they shouldn't live in a flood plain, etc.

 

[sophia jane]

There really isn't much we could have done about this one. Higher sea walls and levees? The barriers they had were working fine. Build 'em bigger after Katrina? Undoubtedly, but how high is obscenely high, and how long will it be before even those are overcome? We're not even to the awful part of the huricane season yet and we've had 11 named storms already. I highly doubt that the gulf coast has had its final hurrah for the season, and that's exactly the reason I never moved south when I had opportunities.


.

They actually knew that the levees in New Orleans would be unable to withstand a strong Cat 3 hurricane (or anything stronger). It was widely reported and yet nothing was done to fix it. I live along the gulf coast; hurricanes are part of life here. But there are things that can be done before the hurricanes happen, and I'm not talking about the days and hours before, but the months when it's not hurricane season.

 

[cloudy]

There are a lot of people who seem to be blaming the victims of Katrina. They should have evacuated sooner, they shouldn't live in a flood plain, etc.

Ding, ding, ding! Perfect answer!

Well, you know, if Katrina hadn't hit, there wouldn't be as much mud for people to sling around, would there?

As for your question, Doc:

I definitely go with 9/11 for lasting implications. Katrina will be remembered, just as Andrew and Camille are, but there's nothing political about it....well, unless you're VB, of course.

 

[Guest]

They actually knew that the levees in New Orleans would be unable to withstand a strong Cat 3 hurricane (or anything stronger). It was widely reported and yet nothing was done to fix it. I live along the gulf coast; hurricanes are part of life here. But there are things that can be done before the hurricanes happen, and I'm not talking about the days and hours before, but the months when it's not hurricane season.

I saw something this week (wish I could find it -- I prefer to cite my assertions), but that there were twenty-two references in the New Orleans paper since 9/11/01 citing Iraq as to why promised funds to New Orleans were not coming through for levee repair/construction etc.

 

[impressive]

There are a lot of people who seem to be blaming the victims of Katrina. They should have evacuated sooner, they shouldn't live in a flood plain, etc.

People live where the jobs are. Blame industry for putting the jobs in harm's way. (Sure, there's a cost factor involved ... but it's an investment in the future to be situated in a sustainable locale.)

 

[glynndah]

Don't worry. When Halliburton gets the contract to clean up NO, everything will be taken care of.

 

[The_Darkness]

People live where the jobs are. Blame industry for putting the jobs in harm's way. (Sure, there's a cost factor involved ... but it's an investment in the future to be situated in a sustainable locale.)

But where isn't harm's way at? Granted, building a factory on the western slope of Mt. St. Helens isn't on my high list of retarded buisness decisions to pursue today, but take my area of the world:

The Missouri River has a huge fault line under it, as does the Mississippi. They're fairly innert....and when they do twitch, no one ever notices....just little 1 Magnitude shakes, nothing big at all. Sometimes, they don't twitch....sometimes they move and move alot. Like the early 1800's quake that messed up St. Louis and made the Mississippi flow north for a day.

Today, we know what's there, we know what CAN happen, but short of Yellow Stone blowing up, those faults shouldn't move. But if we do, will people be blamed for living in harm's way? Will businesses be faulted? Where is a suitable location?

 

[sophia jane]

An article from the MSNBC website, discussing this very topic: 9/11 v Katrina

 

[hunting_tiger]

9/11 had a bigger inpact all over the world but I think Katrina will be judgement day for your Government.

The questions for the government will be much tuffer after this one since there is no enemy to focus on. I saw a swedish newsreporter on our national tv half another ago describing the chaos in NO and how frustrating it was to have seen 100-150 buses outside NO not beeing allowed to go inside because of the security situation in the city. People are dying in there without getting the help they need. I wouldn't want to be your president when questions regarding this kind of stories comes up.

 

[Guest]

Don't worry. When Halliburton gets the contract to clean up NO, everything will be taken care of.

You cynic. I had the same thought earlier.

 

[The_Darkness]

You cynic. I had the same thought earlier.

As I said, I've not watched the news....and I know some of you folks have family in the area or are in that area anyway, so I feel kind of awful about asking this, but how much of NO is left and actually salvageable?

 

[sophia jane]

As I said, I've not watched the news....and I know some of you folks have family in the area or are in that area anyway, so I feel kind of awful about asking this, but how much of NO is left and actually salvageable?

I think it's too early to know.

 

[The_Darkness]

I think it's too early to know.

that's what I was afraid of. At least, from the physical stand point of infrastructure and buildings, with the WTC attack we knew WHAT we had to rebuild.....I'm fully expecting all of NO to be completely destroyed and needing to be rebuilt.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I wouldn't want to be your president when questions regarding this kind of stories comes up.

Our president will say we saved X number of people. He will tell us how well the emergency response teams worked in an unprecedented disaster. He will thank the brave men and women who risked their lives and worked around the clock to save the people of New Orleans. He will thank the good people of America for their generosity and assistance to those affected. He will ask God to bless us all.

If pressed on specifics, he will tell us this is hard work. Very hard. And he will tell us something along the lines of what Condi Rice just said in her press conference: There were people living in low-lying areas and they just couldn't get out.

 

[cloudy]

Our president will say we saved X number of people. He will tell us how well the emergency response teams worked in an unprecedented disaster. He will thank the brave men and women who risked their lives and worked around the clock to save the people of New Orleans. He will thank the good people of America for their generosity and assistance to those affected. He will ask God to bless us all.

If pressed on specifics, he will tell us this is hard work. Very hard. And he will tell us something along the lines of what Condi Rice just said in her press conference: There were people living in low-lying areas and they just couldn't get out.

"Its a hard.......hard job. Hard job. Stay the course."

 

[The_Darkness]

Our president will say we saved X number of people. He will tell us how well the emergency response teams worked in an unprecedented disaster. He will thank the brave men and women who risked their lives and worked around the clock to save the people of New Orleans. He will thank the good people of America for their generosity and assistance to those affected. He will ask God to bless us all.

If pressed on specifics, he will tell us this is hard work. Very hard. And he will tell us something along the lines of what Condi Rice just said in her press conference: There were people living in low-lying areas and they just couldn't get out.

Do you write speeches for these people....or just pay immaculate attention? I stopped listening to the CIA/FEMA/FBI's puppet long ago....about 6 months into this Iraq thing he has us entrenched in.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

9/11 may have been a failure to properly interpret warnings of an impending attack.

Deluged New Orleans is the result of consciously ignoring the overwhelming, ongoing, expert testimony from a multitude of sources that this would eventually happen.

The result should be at least as big a restructuring of the way critical public works are financed and maintained, as 9/11 caused a restructuring of the intelligence community.

Also, considering FEMA's abismal performance in the first real emergency (as opposed to Threat Level Color- Change), some thought should be taken about rethinking the post-9/11 restructuring.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Do you write speeches for these people....or just pay immaculate attention? I stopped listening to the CIA/FEMA/FBI's puppet long ago....about 6 months into this Iraq thing he has us entrenched in.

Neither. He is consistent.