9/11 Detainee sues US for $20 mil

[Spinaroonie]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/12/13/wtc.pilot.radio.suit/index.html

They detained him, stripped him, violated his rights, forced him into a false confession THEN arrested and tried him for that false confession.

Hope he wins.

 

[islandman]

Where's Matlock when you need him?

 

[Guest]

 

[I'mVan]

$20M? Is he Egyptian or American? I mean fuck, chances are if he'd been detained in Cairo after some terrorists bombed the city he would have suffered far worse indignations. Where the fuck do American lawyers come up with this shit?

 

[Spinaroonie]

$20M? Is he Egyptian or American? I mean fuck, chances are if he'd been detained in Cairo after some terrorists bombed the city he would have suffered far worse indignations. Where the fuck do American lawyers come up with this shit?

He is an egyptian who came over to America. His crime? Posessing a radio and being muslim. So we held him for a month without evidence or the ability for him to contact a lawyer, we violated his rights and then forced him to do things and then arrested him because he did what we forced him to.

Edit: The Radio was planted in his room even.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Bump for all my terrist homies.

 

[Guest]

Bump for all my terrist homies.

For fuck's sake...

 

[#1tankcomander]

Spin don't get me wrong or anything, but foreigners get top billing in the U.S. They can come here pennyless, claim immunity, religeous rights and our government give them a free home, free car, set them up in a career, give them money for three months to support their family and pay utility bills.

Shit I'm a veteran and can't get any decent support to get a home / career, much less get help for a new car or free money to help my family live and they are entertaining the idea of paying 20 million? WTF If the fucker gets a settlement he'll leave the US with our hard earned tax dollars and live like a Sultin!

I say fuck him. He could have kept his mouth shut and said nothing. He proably knows the laws here better than the average citizen. That's almost as stupid as paying a old lady for spilling hot coffee in her lap while driving!

Where's the since of it all? When will it stop?

 

[Texan]

What happened to him wasn't fair. A lot of unfair things happened in New York City in September 2001. A few thousand people died as a result of a couple of the unfair things that happened.

The suspicions were partially founded. Just the fact that a VERY recent Egyptian STUDENT was staying in the Millinium Hotel, IMMEDIATELY adjacent to the World Trade Center, for only one week prior to the attack, would have been plenty of reason for him to be held for questioning. IF the two way (ground to air) radio that was found, had actually been in HIS room, rather than the room IMMEDIATELY below his, then there would have been reason to hold him for a LONG time. The security officer who reported that the radio was found in his room, was apparently a liar. The security officer has been tried, convicted, and is serving some prison time.

That's where this thing should have ended. The lawsuit is not justified. If the courts award this guy 20 million, then guess who gets to pay that money. YOU and ME. That's right, Spin, the government has absolutely NO MONEY that it doesn't TAKE from YOU and ME. Not a dime.

Spin, YOU and I didn't have anything to do with the unfair things that happened to this guy. While the government is our proxy and representative, EVERY precaution should be used to see that the government's "pockets" aren't robbed to pay what isn't truely due anyone.

just my thoughts.

 

[#1tankcomander]

What happened to him wasn't fair. A lot of unfair things happened in New York City in September 2001. A few thousand people died as a result of a couple of the unfair things that happened.

The suspicions were partially founded. Just the fact that a VERY recent Egyptian STUDENT was staying in the Millinium Hotel, IMMEDIATELY adjacent to the World Trade Center, for only one week prior to the attack, would have been plenty of reason for him to be held for questioning. IF the two way (ground to air) radio that was found, had actually been in HIS room, rather than the room IMMEDIATELY below his, then there would have been reason to hold him for a LONG time. The security officer who reported that the radio was found in his room, was apparently a liar. The security officer has been tried, convicted, and is serving some prison time.

That's where this thing should have ended. The lawsuit is not justified. If the courts award this guy 20 million, then guess who gets to pay that money. YOU and ME. That's right, Spin, the government has absolutely NO MONEY that it doesn't TAKE from YOU and ME. Not a dime.

Spin, YOU and I didn't have anything to do with the unfair things that happened to this guy. While the government is our proxy and representative, EVERY precaution should be used to see that the government's "pockets" aren't robbed to pay what isn't truely due anyone.

just my thoughts.

AMEN Brother!

 

[Don K Dyck]

Loss of Common Law Freedoms

Spin don't get me wrong or anything, but foreigners get top billing in the U.S. They can come here pennyless, claim immunity, religeous rights and our government give them a free home, free car, set them up in a career, give them money for three months to support their family and pay utility bills.

Shit I'm a veteran and can't get any decent support to get a home / career, much less get help for a new car or free money to help my family live and they are entertaining the idea of paying 20 million? WTF If the fucker gets a settlement he'll leave the US with our hard earned tax dollars and live like a Sultin!

I say fuck him. He could have kept his mouth shut and said nothing. He proably knows the laws here better than the average citizen. That's almost as stupid as paying a old lady for spilling hot coffee in her lap while driving!

Where's the since of it all? When will it stop?

Hi TC . . . governments have very short memories when it comes to caring for vets . . . even here in Oz . . .

But the problem is the U$ Patriot Act and Home Defense Act which give the U$ secret police unfettered powers to deny citizens and aliens common law rights of legal representation when arrested . . . there is one aussie currently held in the U$ Cuban base . . . I hope his parents learn of this case and take similar action against the U$ government for denying thier son proper legal representation.

The common law holds that a person is innocent until proven guilty . . . except under the U$ Patriot Act . . . that is the start of the U$ Fourth Reich totalitarianism . . . just like Hitler's Germany or Stalin's USSR . . .

 

[I'mVan]

AMEN Brother!

Frankly, in the interests of safety of it's citizens, I'd say that they were justified in holding him. No it wasn't fair, and in the event that they are (and they were) wrong, he's probably entitled to some reparations. But $20M, get fucking real. I'm with Texan here, and it's not even my pockets he's dipping into. What disgusts me is the American lawyer who talked him into this.

 

[Spinaroonie]

That's where this thing should have ended. The lawsuit is not justified. If the courts award this guy 20 million, then guess who gets to pay that money. YOU and ME. That's right, Spin, the government has absolutely NO MONEY that it doesn't TAKE from YOU and ME. Not a dime.

Spin, YOU and I didn't have anything to do with the unfair things that happened to this guy. While the government is our proxy and representative, EVERY precaution should be used to see that the government's "pockets" aren't robbed to pay what isn't truely due anyone.

just my thoughts.

I think the focus of the amount of money is not to line the guys pockets but for attention to be brought to it. If it was a $20K lawsuit, the gov't would just pat him on his head and tell him to go run along.

I think there are a lot of things going on right now with the government that represent a vast minority right now, and it's a very wrong minority. It's the people who wish to give up our civil liberties and believe that if you're a muslim that you must be a terrorist.

Granted with Republican courts, I doubt this will go far. However, if he does by some odd happenstance win, it'll cost us $14. (280M/20M, if you factor in sales and other taxes, corporate taxes, etc, it'd probably be less).

I'd rather $14 from my taxes go to say to Ashcroft and the FBI that a lot of what they're doing is wrong than for it to go to a defense system that's based on a wacky idea.

 

[Myriadgirl]

Shit I'm a veteran and can't get any decent support to get a home / career, much less get help for a new car or free money to help my family live and they are entertaining the idea of paying 20 million?

I know the gov't doesn't do much for vets, but you can go through the VA office to get help with a home loan and you should have a Montgomery GI Bill to pay for schooling to get a good career

 

[Texan]

I think the focus of the amount of money is not to line the guys pockets but for attention to be brought to it. If it was a $20K lawsuit, the gov't would just pat him on his head and tell him to go run along.

I think there are a lot of things going on right now with the government that represent a vast minority right now, and it's a very wrong minority. It's the people who wish to give up our civil liberties and believe that if you're a muslim that you must be a terrorist.

Granted with Republican courts, I doubt this will go far. However, if he does by some odd happenstance win, it'll cost us $14. (280M/20M, if you factor in sales and other taxes, corporate taxes, etc, it'd probably be less).

I'd rather $14 from my taxes go to say to Ashcroft and the FBI that a lot of what they're doing is wrong than for it to go to a defense system that's based on a wacky idea.

First, let me correct your math. I should probably keep my mouth shut, because the correct math helps make your point, not mine. But anyway. It's not 280M/20M; but rather, 20M/280M. That figure would be just about $0.07 per person. HOWEVER, that figure isn't close to correct because, while the U.S. poplation may be around 280M people, there are only 61M tax paying units in the U.S.A. That still means that the settlement would cost each tax payer just over $0.33 each.

That's not the point. You feel that Americans are giving up civil liberties because of the things being done by the Dept. of Justice. MOST Americans disagree with you, myself included. Even if people do disagree with the politics of what is happening in the wake of Sept. 11th, it's not right for an Egyptian student in the U.S. under permission granted to a foreigner, to use the U.S. court system in an effort to change American civil policy.

I'm not actually naive enough to believe that's what is happening. What is really happening is that a charlatan lawyer and a greedy young man are trying to win the lottery at the expense of the American taxpayer. It's moraly more wrong (if you believe in degrees of right and wrong) than what happened to the poor student.

 

[p_p_man]

The suspicions were partially founded. Just the fact that a VERY recent Egyptian STUDENT was staying in the Millinium Hotel, IMMEDIATELY adjacent to the World Trade Center, for only one week prior to the attack, would have been plenty of reason for him to be held for questioning.

But a simple check on the facts would have uncovered the truth, which you yourself are now accepting.

Are the law and security agencies in the States so intent on outdoing each other to show they're on their toes that they don't even follow regular and routine procedure any more?

ppman

 

[Texan]

But a simple check on the facts would have uncovered the truth, which you yourself are now accepting.

Are the law and security agencies in the States so intent on outdoing each other to show they're on their toes that they don't even follow regular and routine procedure any more?

ppman

ppman, you better go re-read the article. Your suggestion (and analysis) are somewhere out in "left" field.

please try again.

 

[p_p_man]

ppman, you better go re-read the article. Your suggestion (and analysis) are somewhere out in "left" field.

please try again.

How far 'out'?

What have I missed?

"Higazy, who began a computer engineering graduate program at Polytechnic University in Brooklyn just one week before the September 11 hijackings, had been assigned by the school to live in the hotel until he found housing. He evacuated the hotel with other guests after the second hijacked plane slammed into the World Trade Center.

FBI agents detained Higazy as a material witness December 17, 2001, when he returned to the hotel to retrieve his personal belongings, including his passport and a Koran...

During the lie detector test 10 days later, Higazy falsely admitted the radio was his, the basis of the prosecution...

Prosecutors charged Higazy with one count of lying to federal agents and kept him in custody for a month.

Three days after the charges against Higazy were made public, an American private pilot who was staying in a room one floor below Higazy's claimed the radio. Prosecutors dropped the charges two days later, and Higazy was released from custody in mid-January."

ppman

 

[Texan]

FBI agents detained Higazy as a material witness December 17, 2001, when he returned to the hotel to retrieve his personal belongings, including his passport and a Koran.

after prosecutors completed a court-ordered investigation that exonerated FBI agents involved in his case.

Higazy is suing FBI agent Michael Templeton, who administered a disputed lie detector test that was central to the aborted prosecution.

During the lie detector test 10 days later, Higazy falsely admitted the radio was his, the basis of the prosecution.

According to the government's report, Templeton interpreted Higazy's denials that he had participated in the September 11 attacks as lies.

Prosecutors charged Higazy with one count of lying to federal agents and kept him in custody for a month.

The above quotes are taken from the article. They show that an Egyptian student was living in a hotel across the street from the WTC. He returned to his room more than three months after the attack for his belongings. (The article does not tell if it was possible for the police to know that he was assigned by the university to the hotel.) (Knowing the area a bit, that sounds a bit fishy to me.) The article also tells that he was arrested and given a lie detector test, that he failed. During that test, he also admitted that he owned the radio. His admission was a lie which seems illogical, but the FBI agent that conducted the test was investigated and cleared.

It sounds to me that the police and FBI did a fairly good job in their investigation. That investigation finally cleared the guy, even though he failed the lie detector test. The security guard that lied about where he found the radio became a criminal for what he did. He is also being punished.

ppman, you're just trying to find something else wrong with the great satan. let it go.

 

[p_p_man]

ppman, you're just trying to find something else wrong with the great satan. let it go.

But you keep coming back at me!

But rest assured I almost agree with your analysis except to say that some simple checking would have cleared up most of the reasons why Higazy was in the States and staying at that particular hotel...

The only other problem I have is that because his story wasn't apparantly checked he stayed longer than necessary in custody...

ppman

 

[Texan]

But you keep coming back at me!

But rest assured I almost agree with your analysis except to say that some simple checking would have cleared up most of the reasons why Higazy was in the States and staying at that particular hotel...

The only other problem I have is that because his story wasn't apparantly checked he stayed longer than necessary in custody...

ppman

ppman, I don't have any arguement that he seemed to be locked up too long. However, I try to remember what was happening right about then. I doubt the computers at the Millennium Hotel were working, at the time. Also, based on the false statement by the security guard and the failed lie detector test, I'm sure the FBI felt pretty certain they had a guy in custody that was either going to be tried for terrorism or was going to be deported to Egypt. I doubt they thought he would ever see the outside of a cell again.

 

[p_p_man]

I'm sure the FBI felt pretty certain they had a guy in custody that was either going to be tried for terrorism or was going to be deported to Egypt.

Yes and I can see their point but still...

Anyway we more or less agreed for once...

Have a Happy Christmas.

ppman

 

[Texan]

Yes and I can see their point but still...

Anyway we more or less agreed for once...

Have a Happy Christmas.

ppman

The very BEST of the season to you, also.

 

[busybody..]

Shoot the bastard

and his lawyer

and be done with it.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Re: Shoot the bastard

and his lawyer

and be done with it.

Nice to see that you're above "the muslim animals that will kill anything" or whatever you call them.