8-year-old Saudi girl divorces 50-year-old

[R. Richard]

I generally support the action. The marriage was a terrible mistake. I also don't feel that a Saudi husband should be able to divorce his wife by saying, "I divorce thee" three times. On the other hand, "Fuck off, old man" doesn't show me a lot of class either. Then again, the younger generation ...

8-year-old Saudi girl divorces 50-year-old husband

CAIRO – An 8-year-old Saudi girl has divorced her middle-aged husband after her father forced her to marry him last year in exchange for about $13,000, her lawyer said Thursday.

Saudi Arabia has come under increasing criticism at home and abroad for permitting child marriages. The United States, a close ally of the conservative Muslim kingdom, has called child marriage a "clear and unacceptable" violation of human rights.

The girl was allowed to divorce the 50-year-old man who she married in August after an out-of-court settlement had been reached in the case, said her lawyer, Abdulla al-Jeteli. The exact date of the divorce was not immediately known.

A court in the central Oneiza region previously rejected a request by the girl's mother for a divorce and ruled that the girl would have to wait until she reached puberty to file a petition then.

There are no laws in Saudi Arabia defining the minimum age for marriage. Though a woman's consent is legally required, some marriage officials don't seek it.

But there has been a push by Saudi human rights groups to define the age of marriage and put an end to the phenomenon.

One Saudi human rights activist Sohaila Zain al-Abdeen was optimistic that the girl's divorce would help efforts to get a law passed enforcing a minimum marriage age of 18.

"Unfortunately, some fathers trade their daughters," she told The Associated Press. "They are weak people who are sometimes in need of money and forget their roles as parents."

It was not clear if the man received money for the divorce settlement. The man had given the girl's father 50,000 riyals, or about $13,350, as a marriage gift in return for his daughter, the lawyer said.

The 8-year-old girl's marriage was not the only one in the kingdom to receive attention in recent months. Saudi newspapers have highlighted several cases in which young girls were married off to much older men or young boys including a 15-year-old girl whose father, a death-row inmate, married her off to a cell mate.

Saudi Arabia's conservative Muslim clergy have opposed the drive to end child marriages. In January, the kingdom's most senior cleric said it was permissible for 10-year-old girls to marry and those who believe they are too young are doing the girls an injustice.

But some in the government appear to support the movement to set a minimum age for marriage. The kingdom's new justice minister was quoted in mid-April as saying the government was doing a study on underage marriage that would include regulations.

There are no statistics to show how many marriages involving children are performed in Saudi Arabia every year. Activists say the girls are given away in return for hefty marriage gifts or as a result of long-standing custom in which a father promises his infant daughters and sons to cousins out of a belief that marriage will protect them from illicit relationships.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

This is the kind of thing that gives arranged marriages a bad name. An eight year old to a fifty year old? Stooooooooopid!

 

[Boxlicker101]

This is the kind of thing that gives arranged marriages a bad name. An eight year old to a fifty year old? Stooooooooopid!

An eight year old girl getting married at all is foul. 18 might be too high for a minimum. Maybe 16. There are 16 year olds getting married all over.

This may be the result of Mohammed having a nine year old wife.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Sick, sad, and tired shit.....the same sick, sad, tired shit that gave us the Judeo-Christian ethic and a plethora of TV preachers......Women cannot be responsible for their bodies because their bodies belong to a man:
Their father, their brother, their uncle, their husband, etc........
What a religion!
What a cowardly expression of manhood!
Repressing women makes these ragheads real men........

 

[TE999]

And the Arab/Muslim world says the West...particularly the US... is decadent and degenerate. It is to laugh.

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

And the Arab/Muslim world says the West...particularly the US... is decadent and degenerate. It is to laugh.

To be honest, the same kind of thing has been done in the US. Not as young as eight but barely pubescent. 12 or even younger.

 

[amicus]

Perhaps if the parameters of the discussion were widened and not constrained by political motives...

Islamic law, traditions, customs in general, including treatment of the female, have been in place for well over a thousand years.

Almost every society of earth has, ( I choose my words carefully), 'protected' their females in a variety of ways. I would imply they have done so because females are special and cherished for many, many reasons.

Without belaboring the obvious, women are the, 'glue' that hold a society together. They bear the children, they gather and prepare the food; they make a 'nest' and sustain it.

It is not my place to be an apologist for the Muslim world, but they had a civilization before Great Britain and Europe, save Greece, even had a common language.

I suggest that a marriage arrangement either with the parents of an eight year old girl or a twelve year old, was and is the continuation of custom and tradition and I doubt very much that women, girls, children, are abused in the manner suggested. Such a society would not, could not, endure.

The emancipation of women, the equal treatment, is a relatively new event in world history, like it or not, that is truth.

There are over a billion Muslims in the modern world, residing in every nation and every city. This appears to me to be a cultural collision that will not soon be resolved.

The ladies are special, also, like it or not..."ah, how I love thee, let me count the ways..." Sonnet, Elizabeth Barret Browning?

Amicus

 

[TE999]

To be honest, the same kind of thing has been done in the US. Not as young as eight but barely pubescent. 12 or even younger.

Yep. Some of those cults like the Branch Dividians and that crowd out in Utah come to mind. Not to mention some enclaves in the mountains of wherever. It's not an entire culture/religion over here tho.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Perhaps if the parameters of the discussion were widened and not constrained by political motives...

Islamic law, traditions, customs in general, including treatment of the female, have been in place for well over a thousand years.

Almost every society of earth has, ( I choose my words carefully), 'protected' their females in a variety of ways. I would imply they have done so because females are special and cherished for many, many reasons.

Without belaboring the obvious, women are the, 'glue' that hold a society together. They bear the children, they gather and prepare the food; they make a 'nest' and sustain it.

It is not my place to be an apologist for the Muslim world, but they had a civilization before Great Britain and Europe, save Greece, even had a common language.

I suggest that a marriage arrangement either with the parents of an eight year old girl or a twelve year old, was and is the continuation of custom and tradition and I doubt very much that women, girls, children, are abused in the manner suggested. Such a society would not, could not, endure.

The emancipation of women, the equal treatment, is a relatively new event in world history, like it or not, that is truth.

There are over a billion Muslims in the modern world, residing in every nation and every city. This appears to me to be a cultural collision that will not soon be resolved.

The ladies are special, also, like it or not..."ah, how I love thee, let me count the ways..." Sonnet, Elizabeth Barret Browning?

Amicus

Quite the enlightened one, aren't we?

 

[DeeZire]

Why am I not surprised that Ami would defend the practice? Apparently, his rants about "freedom" only apply to males. It boggles the mind that such backwards thinking still exists, and I'm not talking about the perverts in Saudi Arabia.

 

[irishwoody]

Customs may be old - dont mean they shouldnt be changed or at least reviewed. If the law in Saudi states that a womans consent is required for marriage then an 8 year old little girl is not in a position to provide that consent.
The concept that is is otherwise does not match with most peoples moral compass. It is wrong, stating that it is an old practice is no excuse. Most normal people would recognise this as wrong - look at how societies legislate for marrriage accross the world. Minimum ages apply majority of places.

 

[Verdad]

It amazes me it's her age that pushes the buttons. As if, were she 16, 18, or for that matter, 35, it wouldn't still be slavery.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Why am I not surprised that Ami would defend the practice? Apparently, his rants about "freedom" only apply to males. It boggles the mind that such backwards thinking still exists, and I'm not talking about the perverts in Saudi Arabia.

Amen and Amen. Mr Ami is ever the cookie-cutter conservative: He wants to espouse freedom, tradition and patriotism but only within the narrow confines of his parsed rants couched in elitism, racism, and misogyny. He knows that trying to paint with the broad brush as he does never holds up under true intellectual scrutiny......rave on Amicus, rave on.....it's great entertainment

 

[Safe_Bet]

It amazes me it's her age that pushes the buttons. As if, were she 16, 18, or for that matter, 35, it wouldn't still be slavery.

Thank you. If a person doesn't consent to a marriage, without duress of any kind, then it's wrong regardless of the person's age. (AND some pedo MF'er marrying and having sex with an 8 year old is fucking sick, regardless of culture! )

 

[voluptuary_manque]

It amazes me it's her age that pushes the buttons. As if, were she 16, 18, or for that matter, 35, it wouldn't still be slavery.

Exactly. Even in an arranged marriage situation (and they are often quite successful) either 'promised' should be allowed to opt out. If this is for the kid's benefit (and that is the normal excuse) they should have the final say.

 

[Recidiva]

Perhaps if the parameters of the discussion were widened and not constrained by political motives...

Islamic law, traditions, customs in general, including treatment of the female, have been in place for well over a thousand years.

Almost every society of earth has, ( I choose my words carefully), 'protected' their females in a variety of ways. I would imply they have done so because females are special and cherished for many, many reasons.

Without belaboring the obvious, women are the, 'glue' that hold a society together. They bear the children, they gather and prepare the food; they make a 'nest' and sustain it.

It is not my place to be an apologist for the Muslim world, but they had a civilization before Great Britain and Europe, save Greece, even had a common language.

I suggest that a marriage arrangement either with the parents of an eight year old girl or a twelve year old, was and is the continuation of custom and tradition and I doubt very much that women, girls, children, are abused in the manner suggested. Such a society would not, could not, endure.

The emancipation of women, the equal treatment, is a relatively new event in world history, like it or not, that is truth.

There are over a billion Muslims in the modern world, residing in every nation and every city. This appears to me to be a cultural collision that will not soon be resolved.

The ladies are special, also, like it or not..."ah, how I love thee, let me count the ways..." Sonnet, Elizabeth Barret Browning?

Amicus

WOMEN. Not children. WOMEN. Eight is not a woman.

And if they're glue, that doesn't mean someone gets to put them in a bottle and market them. Choosing who they stick to is key.

You've made a creed about not comprehending what it is to be the object of anybody else's desires and thinking everyone who is desired should be grateful and bow to the will of the desiring. It's selfish and narrow minded, ignorant bullshit that has the unfortunate by product of actually eliminating free will for anyone except yourself and your needs.

Women have been emancipating themselves from this sort of thought for as long as someone thought it.

Not leaving it up to the individual woman to poison the guy to death would be the burden placed upon society. Even this society considers it sick and those who believe in it "weak."

 

[Stella_Omega]

"ladies" are special.
For one thing, they are women who have chosen to act like "ladies." and there are not so many women who want to be that hobbled. If you meet up with one, treat her right. If you never do-- don't be surprised.

 

[amicus]

It appears to me that the 'hard left' ideologues here never read and certainly do not comprehend most of what I post. I should perhaps advise you that the fault lies in your failure to understand rather basic English and not my failure to provide a readable document.

I offered no values oriented commentary of the customs and traditions of the Muslim world, merely presented the historical fact that it is a long enduring culture that is even now under attack as western nations attempt to install a Democratic form of government in Iraq and Afghanistan and promote equal treatment of women throughout the area of influence as can be done.

The unspoken premise here is that you know it will take a conflict, a war, a total war to uproot the Muslim tradition in the Middle East but you are totally opposed to the United States or any Western Nation acting aggressively to effect a change of government, from theocracy to democracy in the region.

All you appear to savor is being empathetic to the plight of women and whine and moan about how terrible it is and scream and shout but, do nothing to alleviate the situation.

Or perhaps the 'appeasement' plan, to go to the World Court, the United Nations and whine like a baby but continue to do nothing and take no action.

Sally Field starred in a film; ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6302067057/childstarletscom) about an American born child shipped to the middle east and the difficulty she had in recovering the child and bringing it back to American. It is not that you don't know about the situation, it is just that you are too cowardly to act to resolve it.

The effete intellectuals face the same dilemma, time and time again, they talk a good game of equality and justice, but will not risk a dime or left a fist in anger to effect change. Pussies.

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

The Usual Suspects understand a FREE LUNCH, they understand DOUBLE STANDARDS for themselves, and they understand RIDING in the wagon while others pull it.

DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT ALGEBRA, DONT KNOW WHAT A SLIDE RULER'S FOR...

 

[Pure]

note to jbj

The Usual Suspects understand a FREE LUNCH, they understand DOUBLE STANDARDS for themselves

i have to assume you're tongue in cheek. surely the saudi case has to do with republican and convervative double standards: there are numerous photos of Bush hugging arab oilmen and sheiks; this is the guy who's bringing FREEDOM to Iraq!

there is 50 years of "our friends the Saudis" from conservatives [some criticisms are relatively recent]. indeed approval of Saddam and supplying him with weapons was American policy; i believe US and Western countries sold Saddam the ingredients for making poison gas.

 

[Verdad]

Ah, the old trick of using the issue of women in Islam as a supposed proof of the left's hypocrisy. You can do better than that, guys.

In theory, the problem can be made to look that simple: cultural tolerance vs. human rights. Human rights win.

In practice, not quite so. One cannot occupy every country with human rights problems. It's a matter of much more than 'tolerance', and more even of that little thingy called other countries' sovereignty.

Were it even feasible, there'd be still a lot to doubt about 'liberation' by force, and were one even to disregard the overly 'delicate' reasons against it, the simple fact would still remain: If the newly 'liberated' people weren't motivated to embrace the new ways, it wouldn't stick.

The changes the Islamic world is due must, therefore, come from within, helped by both support and pressure of the international community, and not by the use of force.

One could add a few words on how that force tends to be used selectively, and how no one's grabbing a gun and rushing to free the Saudi women specifically, but that would be another topic and I already feel as though I've just swallowed a bait.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

i believe US and Western countries sold Saddam the ingredients for making poison gas.

No, a German company surreptitiously sold Saddam the ingredients. Not that it would have made much difference. If you were to check with Dr. Mebeuse I believe he could tell you that nerve gasses aren't made of anything special.

And could we on this thread kindly begin to differentiate between Arab tribal practices and the teachings in the Quran? There is nothing inherently Islamic about child brides, burkhas and the like.

 

[Verdad]

And could we on this thread kindly begin to differentiate between Arab tribal practices and the teachings in the Quran? There is nothing inherently Islamic about child brides, burkhas and the like.

Good point, VM. I did say "Islamic world", meaning the parts of it that practice the customs inimical to human rights. I didn't say those were inherent in the teachings, nor am I learned enough to say so.

 

[Pure]

US firms and iraq

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97F8IRO0&show_article=1

Apr 9 06:49 PM US/
EasternBy DAVID DISHNEAU
Associated Press Writer



HAGERSTOWN, Md. (AP) - Three companies illegally sold materials to Saddam Hussein's regime in the 1980s for making chemical weapons that were used to carry out attacks against thousands of Iraqi Kurds and ultimately caused scores of chronic ailments, according to a federal lawsuit. The complaint filed Tuesday in Baltimore by five Iraqi expatriates and the Nashville, Tenn.-based Kurdish National Congress seeks class certification for an estimated 100,000 Kurds. The Republic of Iraq is also named as a defendant

Alcolac pleaded guilty in 1989 to federal charges of knowingly violating export laws by shipping thiodiglycol, a mustard-gas ingredient that ultimately went to Iran. That case was prosecuted in Maryland.
The complaint alleges that during the 1980s, Alcolac's predecessor company shipped more than 300 tons of thiodiglycol to Iraq through a Jordanian intermediary, Nu Kraft Mercantile Corp.
The lawsuit alleges that in 1986, VWR, then called BDH, sold chemicals to Saddam Hussein's regime that were used to make chemical weapons.

 

[WRJames]

No, a German company surreptitiously sold Saddam the ingredients. Not that it would have made much difference. If you were to check with Dr. Mebeuse I believe he could tell you that nerve gasses aren't made of anything special.

And could we on this thread kindly begin to differentiate between Arab tribal practices and the teachings in the Quran? There is nothing inherently Islamic about child brides, burkhas and the like.

well, I have read th Koran and there is some pretty grisly stuff in there.
Of course the Bible has nasty bits in it as well.