7-11-02 Rumple Foreskin

[KillerMuffin]

The Rump is back! (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Just as a reminder, we do require meaningful participation in order to get your story done! That means that you have to say something about someone else's story that gives other posters something to think about and respond to.

Onward!

It's time for me to lay upon the SDC altar my latest affront to the English language. "Sure Cure for Depression" a "Group Sex" story involving four guys, two gals, and a van can be found at

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=52109

and is now ready (more or less) for your input, whether it be brickbats or bouquets.

Waiting while the knives are being sharpened,

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Thanks for that great introduction, KM.

Hello, out there. This is Rump writing. That statement may also describe, "Sure Cure for Depression," especially since it's my first attempt at writing a group sex story.

This was/is a chapter from a probably-never-to-be-completed erotic novel I worked on when I first got back into writing several years ago. Things you might want to look for:

1. Are there too many characters (male, female, or both)?
2. Are the characters and plot logical, consistent and, if not believable, at least plausable?
3. Is the writing technically acceptable?
4. Do the foreplay scenes at the bar and sex scenes in the van, "work"?
5. Was it worth your time to read the sucker?

Any and all other comments will be appreciated.

NOTE: The original post, which had numerous formatting screw-ups, was replaced, 7/19, by the current version which, with any luck, will have fewer. RF

Rumple Foreskin

 

[KillerMuffin]

A few questions of my own for you to ponder as you read through the story.

2. Paragraphing. How do you know when you should hit the ol' enter key twice and make a new paragraph?

4. Some stories have more than two people in them. Like this one. How do you describe intimate actions with more than one person and not use their names constantly? Do you think RF did a good job with it? Why

3. Climactic moments and repetition. No, no NEOMs here. There are essentially three words for cum. Cum, climax, orgasm. How do you go about describing a this event without repeating yourself or sounding like a bad "B" porno or trite romance novelist or any combination thereof? Do you think Rumple did a good job with climactic moments? Why?

 

[Street0]

2. Paragraphing. How do you know when you should hit the ol' enter key twice and make a new paragraph?

A paragraph with more than three sentences should be a rarity because there are very few logical sentence groups of that size. This applies doubly to dialogue paragraphs; they should only have the dialogue and a select few relevant character actions.

The following has been reparagraphed to suit my preferences.

It finally registered in the back of her mind that hands were touching her legs. She opened her eyes and looked down in confusion. Frank was pulling her panties off.

"Don't let me stop you. Just wanted to give you a better shot, and us a better view."

Slightly disoriented, she looked around. Jim, Todd, and Frank were all looking at her. Tony was still on top of Sue, but they were also watching.

With a smile of reassurance, Sue called out, "Go Cindy, go!"

She smiled back at her friend and nodded. Spreading her legs wide, she removed the fingers from her pussy and began stroking her clit with both index fingers. Her body jerked with pleasure as she pressed on the clit, but she wanted something inside her.

Leaning forward, she moved her hands down, inserted two fingers from each hand into her snatch and started rubbing her clit with her thumbs. Her body began to tremble and sweat with excitement.

Soon each stroke of the thumbs and thrust of the fingers made her shake as she started building toward her climax. It hit her without warning.

The force of the orgasm tossed her back into the seat which pulled her fingers out of her pussy.

Desperately, she began stroking her clit with one set of fingers while trying to shove her other fingers back inside her churning cunt.

Suddenly, she felt her hands being pushed aside. Looking down she saw Frank, still kneeling between her legs but now holding her wrists. He smiled, "Always glad to help a lady in distress," leaned forward, and began to lick her pussy.

It was only a second before she reached another jarring climax.

4. Some stories have more than two people in them. Like this one. How do you describe intimate actions with more than one person and not use their names constantly? Do you think RF did a good job with it? Why

Although my reading might be better categorized as "skimming", I'd say that he managed to do a good job. There was no confusion on my part.

3. Climactic moments and repetition. No, no NEOMs here. There are essentially three words for cum. Cum, climax, orgasm. How do you go about describing a this event without repeating yourself or sounding like a bad "B" porno or trite romance novelist or any combination thereof? Do you think Rumple did a good job with climactic moments? Why?

"Shot his load"; "bucked"; "stiffenned her back"; "shudderred with pleasure". Combined with good descriptions, these can modify and/or replace the three words with good effect.

 

[Guest]

Rumple-Foreskin. . .

I line edited the first part. I won’t get into the story, I am more interested in the writing and how you told it.

I would suggest you print out the edited version and compare it to the original and figure out why I made those changes. If you don’t agree tell me to go to hell.

You began, first paragraph in Sue’s POV. Second Paragraph seemed to be in Cindy’s. From there on it appeared to be omnipotent.

There is entirely too much passive voice. Try to eliminate as much of the verb “to be” and find stronger verbs to replace each one. I did a lot of that.

First, I broke up a lot of the longer paragraphs. You cannot have too much white space when reading on a small screen or a page for that matter.

I shortened a ot of sentences. When he action starts, short staccato sentences draws in the reader into the action.

I cut a lot of adjectives and prepositional phrases that were redundant.

I eliminated “ that” a lot. In 90% of the cases it is useless. Also just, really, even and a lot of other nothing words were eliminated.

Remember all good writing is in the rewriting. Never send in a first or second draft.

Hope I was of some help.

80niner





Sure Cure For Depression
by Rumple Foreskin ©

"Depressed? Damn straight I'm depressed. Waking up to find the guy you've been screwing all evening, getting butt fucked by some dude can do that to you. Hell, I'd be crazy not to be depressed." Sue Cangilosi drained her fifth "Harvey Wallbanger" and gave Cindy Davis a sad smile. "What wouldn’t I be depressed?"

It was hard believing any guy would turn from Sue to another man. She had a body the Renaissance masters would have killed to paint. Full lips, big eyes, her thick, dark hair fell straight and shiny to the outcropping of her incredible bottom. Sue's voluptuous body was a testimony to timeless female sexuality.

Although oozing sex appeal, Cindy had always liked Sue. A friendly, live-and-let-live, party animal, she liked boys and having a good time. Except for her family and friends, she refused to take anyone or anything seriously, including herself. Now, depressed and getting smashed, no one could blame her for wanting to get wasted, thought Cindy. It must be gut-wrenching to discover the boyfriend you've slept with for weeks is gay.

They sat in the back booth of a smokey bar on New York's First Ave. near the nursing school's female dorm. Thanks to cheap drinks and good hamburgers, Guy Fawkes's was a favorite of the students living there. That made it a favorite for guys trying to pick them up.

Still troubled by her first lesbian experience with Ann Elmore, another friend, Cindy understood Sue's questioning her womanhood and sexuality. It would have been bad if he'd cheated with another woman, but waking up and discovering him being sodomized by another man was unreal.

"Those guys playing darts sent these," the waiter, set down a fresh round drinks.

The girls looked to the group and Cindy nodded thanks. "They're not bad looking," she said.

"And probably not fags," responded Sue. "Come with me to the old dis-comfort station, will you." The waiter came over with another tray of drinks when they returned. "These are from the same guys. They want to know if they can join you?" Normally, Cindy hated bar pickups, but knew Sue needed to be around straight guys. Besides, she had just gotten the beginning of an idea which might involve them. "Sure, tell them to come on over."

Sue protested but Cindy reassured her it would be fun. Tony was built like a wrestler, big chest, dark, curly hair and brooding eyes. Jim was average height with red hair. Frank, built like a basketball player was tall, lean and had long arms. With blue eyes, long blonde hair, and body builders physique, Todd became Cindy's immediate favorite.

All in all, they were not a bad looking crew. They claimed being business majors, not pre-med or med students, a point in their favor. Frank sat next to Cindy and Todd next to Sue. The others pulled up chairs at the end of the booth. Joking and flirting, they soon had Sue joining the conversation. There was no dance floor in the bar but couples routinely created their own space in a dimly lighted area in the back near their booth. Cindy smiled and asked Frank if he'd like to dance. He looked surprised, but returned her smile and accepted her gracious offer.

On the dance floor they moved easily to a slow song. It felt good being held by a man and Cindy fought the temptation to wait until the next number to tell Frank about Sue's problem.

"You're a great dancer, Frank, but you should know I'm engaged and while I like having a good time, I'm being faithful to my man. My friend Sue, on the other hand, has had a really hard fall. She's unbelievably depressed and needs all the ego boosting she can get.

"I'd like iall four of you to hustle her. Don't waste time on me."

Frank looked dubious until she told him what happened. "As I said, she's needs the attention. If the guys go along with the idea, I promise I won't be a wet blanket though I'm not a free agent."

"How far do you want this thing to go?"

"That's up to Sue, as long as you treat her with understanding."

"What's in this for you?"

"She's my friend." The music stopped. Cindy looked straight into his eyes. "In a few minutes, we’ll go to the restroom with me. You guys can talk it over."

Frank looked at Sue and nodded. After the promised pilgrimage to the ladies room, Frank scooted over to let Sue sit next to him. Tony and Todd pulled their chairs closer to her.

Cindy, seated across from them, on the inside next to Jim, who placed a hand on her knee. He whispered, while pretending to nibble on her ear. "Frank said to tell you we've agreed, but only if you agree to do a little partying. Okay?"

Cindy nodded her agreement. "In that case," Jim said, "I've been given the core of finding out if you mean what you say. Why don't you do something about my poor aching joint."

It took but a moment to locate his crotch and begin stroking the bulge she found there. Sue was involved in a long kiss with Todd. He and Frank had opened the her blouse and were fondling her breasts. Tony's hands were under the table. Jim nibbled on Cindy's ear before whispering that his staff needed personal attention. He unzipped his jeans and pulled out a hard, thick cock. She fingertips slid over it's length, admiring the texture, pleased with way her touch made it jerk. Wrapping her fingers around the shaft, she began the familiar slow, steady pumping motion. Frank now leaned over and sucked on one of Sue's nipples, Todd fondled the other while covering her mouth with his. Evidently, from her occasional moans, Tony was doing good under-the-table fingering. Sue's hand was in Frank's lap and her arm made motions similar to Cindy's. As far as Cindy was concerned, the night was already a success. To slow things down a bit, she caught the bartender's eye. He signaled the waiter who started in their direction. "The waiter's coming." she said softly.

Her announcement created a flurry of activity. By the time the waiter arrived, the three men hovering around Sue all sat up straight and her bosom was covered. But irather than letting go of Jim's dick, Cindy used shorter, faster strokes.

Cindy felt it only fair since Jim had started to come. The others ordered more drinks, but he stared straight ahead and grunted agreement when the waiter asked if he wanted another beer. By the time When the waiter returned, Jim was slumped in the booth and barely acknowledged the drink. While he recuperated and Tony went to take a leak, Todd and Frank danced with the girls. Once everyone was back, the seating order changed. Frank still sat inside of Sue but Jim joined Tony in the chairs next to her. At Cindy's urging, Todd moved in first and she sat on the outside.

There was no doubt in Cindy's mind that Sue was getting into the swing of things and picked up where she'd left off with Frank's tool while Tony kissed and fondled her. With Todd's eager assistance, she soon had his hard dick in the palm of her hand. Looking down, she watched her fingers idly stroke the thick, white shaft while he attempted to get comfortable. Glancing up, she saw Sue's boobs were exposed again and being played with by Frank and Tony. Jim’s hands were under the table, apparently playing with Sue's pussy.

Impulsively, Cindy spoke up, "Hey Sue, you guys want to race? One who comes in last buys the next round." Sue gave her a silly smile, "You're on." Conversation stopped as the race began. Sue pumped furiously on Frank, who was leaning back with his eyes closed. Todd appeared calm. Cindy elt his body twitch. Frank wrapped his arm around Sue's shoulders, pulled her closer and kissd her. The movement forced Sue to switch hands. On the other side of the table, Cindy continued pumping steadily on Todd. He began taking quicker, shallower breaths.

Frank made a strangled moan and went ridged. The table threatened to tip over and people grabbed for sliding glasses. Finally, Frank settled back. Tony grinned at Sue, "Maybe that was just good acting, where's the proof." After a dramatic pause, Sue brought a hand out from under the table and held in up for inspection. It was covered with proof.

"Well," said Jim, "now that you've got it, what are you going to do with it?" Sue stared at her cum covered hand for several moments, and then, with lady-like gentility, began licking it clean.

Seeing Sue, lick Frank's cum, moved Todd over the brink. Cindy felt his body tremble and his cock swell. The muscles in his jaws bulged. With a low growl, he came. Cindy directed most of the spurts away but he was so stiff, it was impossible to keep it all off his lap or her hand. In addition, some splattered on the bottom of the table began dripping down. It seemed to take forever for him to run dry.

"Well Todd," said Sue, "it looks like the rounds on you."

Cindy, unlike her friend, used small paper napkins to wipe Todd's goo off her hand, replied, "Yes, but it proves what they say about nice guys finishing last."

Exchanging glances with the other guys, Tony suggested they go riding in his van. "Why not," Sue said, "this table's a sticky mess."

The customized van had reclining captain's chairs and a couch in the back. Cindy sat up front, facing the rear, watching the action. Tony drove. The others started working on Sue who was stretched out in a fully reclined middle chair.

Frank, on the couch, kissed her from behind. Todd completely unbuttoned her blouse and kissed one boob while fondling the other. Jim knelt between her outstretched legs, pushed up her short skirt, removed her panties, and used his hands to massage her pussy. He shoved both thumbs into her vagina while running his fingers through her thick bush of dark, curly pubic hair. The van swerved and Cindy realized Tony was paying more attention to the action than his driving. "I don't know where we're going, but I hope we get there soon before you kill us all," she said nervously.

"Sorry about that. It's hard to concentrate with all that’s going on. We'll be there soon. You know, if you took things in hand up here, it might keep my mind off what's going on back there."

"But Tony," she put her hand on his thigh, "would that make your driving better or worse?"

"You never can tell. It might be dangerous. But in the interest of science and highway safety, it's our duty to find out. So give it a try," he coaxed. "It's the only way we'll ever know."

"Science demands it, how can I refuse?" Cindy reached over, unzipped him and stuck her hand inside. Finding her target was easy, but she could not believe what she'd found. She could not get her hand around the shaft and couldnot find the top. "Tony," she asked incredulously, "is all that you?"

"I'm afraid so."

Cindy unbuckled his belt and unsnapped his jeans. Pulling down the top of his shorts, she stared in disbelief at the biggest dick she'd ever seen. "My God, Tony, why are you 'afraid' you've got this monster?"

"Having a cock has some real bad sides to it ."

"I can understand the good points," said Cindy who was reverently stroking the enormous dick. "Girls who have heard about it must be dying to take a look."

"Yeah, and take's the problem. They want to look. Once they do, most get scared. Sometimes a girl is willing to try some straight sex. But that's about it. I'll probably never get any rear action. Hell, I've never even had a real blowjob. No girl can handle more than kissing or licking."

"Well, I bet there's at least one girl here who'll give it a good try." All thoughts about Sue vanished. Cindy turned full attention to Tony's tool. It was three hands long from base to top, and thick as a salami. She slowly stroked the big dick, gently squeezing on the thick hardness encased in smooth, tight skin. Her attention was so fixed on the massive dick, she barely noticed the van turn into a dark, deserted road. Tony parked quickly, left the motor and radio on, and flipped on a couple soft, interior lights. As her hands continued gently caressing the imposing prick, she looked up at its owner.

"Tony, I want to give you a blow-job, a real blow-job that is." He grinned and turned his seat to face the rear. While Cindy watched, pleased by his eagerness, she noticed the scene in the rear had shifted to the couch. Sue was naked, lying on her back. Jim lay between her legs, pounding his dick home, while she sucked Todd's cock. Frank sat in one of the chairs, his penis shrunken and obviously well used. Jim let out a groan and made one last hard slam into Sue. After a brief pause, he sighed and dismounted.

Sue released Todd's stiff dick from her mouth and helped him climb on board. With one lunge, he sank it into her snatch and hammered away with hard, deep strokes. Sue was a very busy girl. Once Todd was in place, Frank knelt by her head. She reached for his flaccid dick, popped it into her mouth. Her legs wrapped around Todd's middle, holding him tight. With one hand she grabbed his ass and appeared to be trying to pull him in ever deeper, while she continued meeting him hunch for hunch. Her other hand fondled Frank's balls. The van gently swayed in rhythm to their movements. Under his breathe, Tony muttered, "Holy shit!"

Cindy looked over and nodded her agreement before slipping out of her seat and kneeling between his legs. "I was able to distract you once before," she said with a smile. "Let's see if I can do it again."

"Go lady, go. I've got nothing to lose but my load."

"Well, first of all, I need some room to maneuver," said Cindy. She helped Tony take off his shoes, socks and pants. Once she shoved down his underpants, she paused and studied her task.

Tony sprawled on the edge of the chair, his heavy, semi-erect dick resting on his thigh. Cindy unbuttoned his shirt and opened it to reveal a broad, hairy chest. Bending, she placed her lips at the base of the shaft. Sucking and nibbling, she moved upward until she licked the smooth, flared cockhead, then began moving back. She repeated the trip several times. She never use her hands until she placed both of thm around the shaft and pulled it towards her. As she stared down its huge length, Cindy knew there was no way she could give it a 'real' blowjob, but she was determined to try. Taking a deep breath to calm herself, she began to kiss and lick the big, flared head. Once it was well lubricated, she began slipping it between her moist, widespread lip, inserting more and more until the entire head was inside her stuffed mouth. For a moment, she left it alone. Once her mouth adjusted to its size, she pulled it out, flexed her jaw and then started all over. This time the head was easier to handle and she began sucking on it, swirling her tongue as best she could.

Her hands wrapped around the thick shaft like holding a baseball bat. Moving her head she began trying to coax her lips down to her nearest finger. Despite her best efforts, she realized that one or two more inches of Tony's thick shaft was about her limit. She sucked on the massive love muscle and considered the problem. Finally, she decided attacking the problem from another angle might be the solution. Pulling the dick out of her mouth. She took a deep breath and announced, "Tony, I think I can do better."

"What the hell do you mean? You're great! No one ever took that much before. I could come in another minute." Tony's excitement was a turn-on.

"If you'll lay on the floor, I'll approach this thing from another direction and maybe take a little more."

"Always willing to lend a helping hand," said Tony. He quickly got on the floor. After a brief struggle, Tony lay at an angle across the width of the van. Cindy knelt next to him, looking down his body. The flared cock head rose inches from her lips.

While moving, she briefly noticed the group in the back. Frank now sank long deep thrusts into Sue. Jim, at her head was getting prepped for his next turn with a blowjob. Todd sat slumped in the chair. "I wonder how many times they've rotated," said Tony.

"I wonder how many times they can," replied Cindy. She licked a drop of pre-cum from his cock head. "But you'll have to keep track of all that. I'm going to be concentrating on something else."

Tony laughed, said, "Please do."

She placed her hands along the length of Tony's shaft. This time, the head slid easily into her mouth and felt more comfortable, more at home. She sucked and pumped for a while, enjoying the feel, the taste and the texture of the large head.

Once she felt comfortable, she began carefully working the shaft into her mouth. As her lips gradually descended further down the shaft, the torpedo shaped cock head moved in ever deeper. When it finally met resistance, there was an inch or more between her lips and fingers.

Cindy was positive she could take some more. Gagging, an involuntary reflex, could sometimes be controlled with proper breathing. Pulling back until her lips encircled the base of the head, she took a deep breath.

Letting her breath out, she started back down the swollen cock. When the head pushed against the top of her throat, she forced herself to relax. This time, her lips and fingers were closer. Repeating the process, she felt the head begin pushing into her throat. Though her stomach heaved slightly, she did not gag Now, her fingers were closer. Returning to the top of the dick, she took a deep breath and plunged down. The shaft moved quickly past her lips and teeth as the head rushed through her mouth. For a moment, it pressed the opening to her throat, then slipped inside.

She struggled not to gag. Cindy felt a sense of excitement and accomplishment. She wanted to savor the incredible sensation. When Tony's body twitched, she started slowly moving her head up and down. Runners may have victory laps, she thought triumphantly, I'm taking my victory strokes. Several "victory strokes" later, she realized, her lips reached well past her first finger. But there was a lot of Tony between her lips and the bottom of his broad shaft.

As she began wondering whether she might be able to take the whole thing, Tony let it be known he had more pressing concerns. His hips quivered and began to hunch. He moaned and tossed his head from side to side. Sliding her lips up the length of the dick, Cindy sucked and swirled her tongue around the bulky head. Tony's legs went stiff. She felt the cock head swell. Her hair tossing about, Cindy pumped furiously, forcing its head back into her throat each time she reached the bottom of her stroke. Tony's body strained into a ridged arch. She pushed down frantically, forcing it to new depths. Her sense of feel, not taste, told her he was coming.

Her lips felt the wads of cum jetting up the shaft. Her throat felt the cum shoot out and straight into her body. She pulled back slightly and the cum flooded into her mouth. Swallowing fast, she ran her hands up the shaft from its base to her lips, trying to milk the big cock dry. Tony collapsed back on the floor. The flood of cum slowed to a trickle and his dick began to soften. Cindy worked her way down the semi-soft shaft. The shrinking head fit easily down her throat. She took inch after inch until her lips stopped at its base.

 

[Ray Dario]

Re: Thanks for that great introduction, KM.

RF, First I'll give you my regular BS filled critique and then I'll try to answer your questions and then KM's questions. Whew!

Overall the story showed promise. It felt like you thought out the story line well and you developed the character of Cindy pretty well.

However, the total lack of logical paragraphing really made it a chore to read. Paragraphs are supposed, even in fiction, to have one overall idea. You don't have to state the idea then support it with facts like a technical work, but it should still only have one main overall idea. If the idea changes then you should start a new paragraph.

An example:


Now she was depressed and getting smashed. No one could blame her for wanting to get wasted, thought Cindy. It must be unreal to discover the boyfriend you've been sleeping with for weeks is gay. They were in the back booth of a smokey bar on New York's First Ave. near the nursing school's all-female dorm. Thanks to cheap drinks and good hamburgers, Guy Fawkes's was a favorite of the students living there. That made it a favorite of guys trying to pick them up.


This is two distinct paragraphs masquerading as one.


Now she was depressed and getting smashed. No one could blame her for wanting to get wasted, thought Cindy. It must be unreal to discover the boyfriend you've been sleeping with for weeks is gay.

They were in the back booth of a smokey bar on New York's First Ave. near the nursing school's all-female dorm. Thanks to cheap drinks and good hamburgers, Guy Fawkes's was a favorite of the students living there. That made it a favorite of guys trying to pick them up.


Next, ambiguous pronouns: This story is chock full of them.


In Cindy's opinion, she had the type of body the great Renaissance masters would have wanted to paint.


By context, and with a little work, the reader can sort out that the first she actually refers to Sue, but it ain't easy. This is an ambiguous pronoun. Better would be:


In Cindy's opinion, Sue had the type of body the great Renaissance masters would have wanted to paint.


If there were only one instance of this then I would have blown it off, but like I said, there were many.

The last point I'm going to get into on my critique is believability.

I've been to a lot of really nasty bars in my time, but I've never been involved with or witnessed or even heard about a group of men sitting around a table getting jerked off by two women they had just met. That whole scene was completely unbelievable to me. And when Cindy said she was engaged and wanted to be faithful, I at least expected her to show some sign of it later. She really never made any effort to remain faithful to her betrothed.

Okay on to the questions.

1. Are there too many characters (male, female, or both)?

No, not too many characters. Maybe it needed a little better management and a little less ambiguity but you can make that many characters work.

2. Are the characters and plot logical, consistent and, if not believable, at least plausable?

No, I already answered this one.

3. Is the writing technically acceptable?

Other than the two serious problems I've already mentioned, yeah I guess so. Actually it is hard to tell because of the problems.

4. Do the foreplay scenes at the bar and sex scenes in the van, "work"?

Nope, sorry, not really believable. I felt the characters needed more motivation to suddenly become sex monkeys.

5. Was it worth your time to read the sucker?

It was very hard to read. Honestly I only read the first page because of that.

Sorry to pound you so hard RF. Remember it's all just my opinion.

On to KM's questions.

2. Paragraphing. How do you know when you should hit the ol' enter key twice and make a new paragraph?

Hmm, I've already went over this one up above.

4. Some stories have more than two people in them. Like this one. How do you describe intimate actions with more than one person and not use their names constantly? Do you think RF did a good job with it? Why

I didn't think RF did a good job. I felt his use of pronouns left me wondering who he meant at times. In stories like this you need to read each sentence and make sure that it is very CLEAR who each pronoun refers to. If it isn't then either rewrite the sentence or at least change the pronoun to a proper name. Usually it's better to rewrite the sentence.

3. Climactic moments and repetition. No, no NEOMs here. There are essentially three words for cum. Cum, climax, orgasm. How do you go about describing a this event without repeating yourself or sounding like a bad "B" porno or trite romance novelist or any combination thereof? Do you think Rumple did a good job with climactic moments? Why?

I didn't make it to his climactic moment so I can't say if he did a good job or not. There are more than three ways to say cum though. You can describe the building tension and the sudden release. You can show the person in the throes of ecstasy and not just say "he/she came." Usually if you find yourself repeating a word or phrase then you can bet your telling not showing.


So RF, to sum up. You have a good story line and a good character in Cindy. Build on those traits in your next story. Watch the paragraphing and the pronouns and yes the passive voice and your next story will be much better. And remember that everything said in this forum is just the writers opinion. And everyone else's opinion is worth far less than your own.

Good luck and keep writing.

Ray

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

I'M INNOCENT, I TELL YA. (At least about those paragraph breaks.)

Honest,

I don't know what happened to the paragraph breaks. Of course, it's all my fault (computer related snafus always are). After posting the story, I gave it a quick check, but didn't notice the problem. From now on, I'll use a text file instead of a Word file to make sure there are no wierd, hidden formatting commands.

My apologizes to Ray and the unregistered one who both spent a fair chunk of time and energy trying to show me the error of my paragraph mis-breaking ways. Thanks for your effort and advice. The other items you pointed out prove I need all the help I can get when it comes to writing, including paragraph breaks.

For what it's worth, here is a little of the opening segment with, I hope, the proper paragraph breaks.

The Rumpled Foreskin

--

Sure Cure for Depression

“Depressed? Damn straight I’m depressed. Waking up to find your, ‘man,’ the same guy you’d being screwing all evening, getting butt fucked by some dude can do that to you. Hell, I’d have to be crazy not to depressed.” Sue Cangilosi finished her tirade, drained her fifth “Harvey Wallbanger” and then gave Cindy Davis a sad smile. “So what makes you think I’m depressed?”

It was hard to believe any guy would turn from Sue to another man. In Cindy’s opinion, she had the type of body the great Renaissance masters would have wanted to paint. Full lips, big eyes, and thick, dark hair, that fell straight and shiny down to the beginning of her incredible bottom. In the late ‘60’s, with fashion models starting to look malnourished, Sue’s voluptuous body was a testimony to timeless female sexuality.

Although she oozed sex appeal, Cindy had always liked Sue. A friendly, live-and-let-live, semi-hippie, party animal, she liked boys and having a good time and, except for her family and friends, refused to take anyone or anything seriously, including herself and school.

Now she was depressed and getting smashed. No one could blame her for wanting to get wasted, thought Cindy. It must be unreal to discover the boyfriend you've been sleeping with for weeks is gay.

They were in the back booth of a smokey bar on New York’s First Ave. near the nursing school’s all-female dorm. Thanks to cheap drinks and good hamburgers, Guy Fawkes’s was a favorite of the students living there. That made it a favorite of guys trying to pick them up.

Still troubled by her own first lesbian experience with another friend, Ann Elmore, Cindy could understand Sue's worries about her womanhood and sexuality. It would have been bad enough if he’d cheated with another woman. But to wake up in his apartment and discover him in the living room being sodomized by another guy was unreal.

"That group of guys playing darts sent these," explained the waiter, setting down fresh drinks. Cindy and Sue looked over at the group. Cindy nodded thanks.

"They're not bad looking,” she said.

"And probably not fags," responded Sue. “Come with me to the old dis-comfort station, will you."

The waiter came over with another tray of drinks when they returned. "These are from those same guys. They want to know if they can join you?"

Normally, Cindy hated bar pickups, but knew Sue needed to be around straight guys. Besides, she had just gotten the beginning of an idea which might involve them. "Sure, tell them to come on over." Sue began to protest but Cindy reassured her that it would be fun.

Tony was built like a wrestler, with a big chest, dark, curly hair and brooding eyes. Jim was average height with a muscular build and bright, red hair. Frank looked like a basketball player with his tall, lean build and long arms. With his blue eyes, long blonde hair, and body builders physique, Todd was Cindy’s immediate favorite.

All in all, they weren't a bad looking crew. They claimed to be business majors, not pre-med or med students, a definite point in their favor. Frank sat next to Cindy and Todd next to Sue while the others pulled up chairs at the end of the booth. Their joking and flirting soon had even Sue joining in the conversation.

Strictly speaking, there was no dance floor in the bar. But couples routinely created their own space in a dimly lighted area in the back near their booth. Cindy smiled at Frank and asked him if he'd like to dance. He looked surprised at first, but then returned her smile and said he'd gladly accept her gracious offer.

 

[SexyChele]

Sorry to all of my fellow circle-mates for having been so scarce the past couple of times. I'll try to be more diligent in the future!

Now, onto more important matters....

I think I'm probably going to re-hash a lot of what has already been stated, so I'll be brief with that and then get on to the questions.

I just have to add my nod to the paragraphing structure. If you state there was some sort of formatting snafu, RF, I would believe you. You have been an experienced enough writer that I would not expect this from you. For the record, as I was reading this, I had difficulty believing you would have left the paragraphing the way it is. So, I do believe you!

I'm assuming as well that the formatting problems surrounding the dialogue fell into the same problem as did the paragraphing. I won't go over that, as I'm sure it is something you already know.

I do have to echo Ray's point in the change of narrator. At the beginning, and from the title, I was under the impression this would be Sue's story. And it started out that way in the first paragraph. However, a shift occured in the second and third paragraphs that suddenly changed the story to Cindy's narration. The transition was very confusing to me. It should have been either Sue's story or Cindy's story, in my opinion.

Also, you make reference about lesbian experiences, and I felt the story was going off in that direction. However, there was no lesbian encounters in this story. Either that part should have been left out, or Sue and Cindy should have engaged in some activity.

RF's Questions:

1. Are there too many characters (male, female, or both)?

Okay, I'll admit it. I got way confused with the guys in this story. I think it came about because of the descriptions you give early on, and then trying to keep them all sorted out. (which one was the basketball player, which one was the one Cindy liked, etc) After a while I simply didn't care who was who, the names simply distinguished a differerent person, and the reading became easier. I had to sort of shut off part of my brain to read that many characters. But hey, I get that way with novels, too.

2. Are the characters and plot logical, consistent and, if not believable, at least plausable?

I think Cindy was believable, to a point. She was really the only character that was truly exposed to the reader. The others were props for the story. The plot was a bit stretched for me. As pure fantasy it would work, yes. But beyond that, I didn't quite get how Sue could be so terribly depressed, almost mistrusting of men, one moment, and an insatiable love monster the next.

3. Is the writing technically acceptable?

Except for the paragraphing, and a very few missed or misspelled words, it seemed okay. The paragraphing really detracted from this aspect, however.

4. Do the foreplay scenes at the bar and sex scenes in the van, "work"?

In the bar - no. In the van - yeah, I could see that happening. For the scene in the bar, one would have to accept a half-naked woman sitting exposed to possible other clients and/or staff. Unless the booth was in the back and hidden, and the bar had absolutely no other patrons, this scene didn't work for me. I had a difficult time with the idea of a guy orgasming as the waiter is taking his order. Sorry, but it just didn't work for me.

5. Was it worth your time to read the sucker?

I read the entire story, and I found this part to be the least satisfying. But I would like to say that I think this might be a "female thing". Overly large penises seem to be more of a fascination for men than women. (yes, I understand there are exceptions to everything, and I'm sure there are women who almost idolize huge appendages of the male anatomy) The description of Tony's penis, and the seeming fascination for its size, turned me off, frankly. Cindy little "delima" in how to give a "real" blowjob left me cold. I think men might find this to be a bit more of a turn on than women. I only kept thinking of how I'd be gagging and keeping from throwing up - not exactly an erotic thought.


KM's Questions:

Paragraphing. How do you know when you should hit the ol' enter key twice and make a new paragraph?

Um, when the lines equal two fingers on the computer screen? (Sorry, I couldn't resist!) Reaching back into the farthest recesses of my brain, I seem to recall that one is to begin a new paragraph when the action, description, or location changes. Example: story shifts from house to car = new paragraph. I know this is very simplistic, and there are many other rules to proper paragraphing, but if the beginning of the paragraph has little or nothing to do with the ending of the paragraph, there should be a break or two in there.

Some stories have more than two people in them. Like this one. How do you describe intimate actions with more than one person and not use their names constantly? Do you think RF did a good job with it? Why

Well, I got a little confused in this story, until I just shut down all the guys. But I think RF gave a good effort in this. At least in the end I understood that Tony was the one getting the blowjob. The part that truly confused me was the description of who was sitting where in the bar - that truly confused me.

I think once a writer sets the action and "places" their characters, a reader can put a mental picture together and keep the characters in place. (I know I have difficulty with large casts - movies and novels alike - so I'm a little of the strange one here) I think RF did a fairly good job. At least I had a good mental picture of where everyone was once they were in the van.

Climactic moments and repetition. No, no NEOMs here. There are essentially three words for cum. Cum, climax, orgasm. How do you go about describing a this event without repeating yourself or sounding like a bad "B" porno or trite romance novelist or any combination thereof? Do you think Rumple did a good job with climactic moments? Why?

I think describing the orgasm rather than simply stating it would offset the need to use words that are repetitive. To state that some one "came" is not quite the same as describing the feel of buildup, the sense of needing to come, and the actual release.

I think RF did a fairly good job, but I had difficulty believe the three in the back of the van were orgasming that quickly and that often. It seems after the guys all experienced one orgasm, they might have recuperated sooner, but they would have lasted far longer. RF didn't let us know the timeframe for the events in the van, but I felt it couldn't have been more than an hour at the most. But, as far as describing the events, I think he did a good job. One example that comes to mind is where he describes one of the fellows sinking deeply into Sue, then stiffening, etc. That was far better than some one saying, "He came hard."


RF, I think the formatting of the paragraphs really undermined the story. I'm not certain if you can asked to have it fixed or not, though you might want to look into it. Overall, the story itself was a great idea, and I think for a first effort at group sex you did a better job than I could have done. Sorry if I came across as harsh, but, as Ray says, this is all just my opinion

 

[Pearl_Prynne]

An Ambitious Attempt

Hi RF,

Group sex is difficult, from a literary point of view. I'll plead the fifth on any other perspective.

You've gotten several answers on the questions, so I'll just add my comments. I have many. Let me explain my procedure.

While reading your story (the second time), I was switching back and forth between two word documents. I will paste them below. The first document held technical comments. I quit with those after I got into the story. It "worked" for me. I have to disagree with SexyChele. I like big cocks.

On the second page I gave my personal/stylistic critique. So, after this delightful introduction, my discussion is just a bunch of choppy blurbs. They do, however, follow the order of your story. I tried to give a reference to each comment, but please feel free to ask questions for clarity. I'll also accept explanations and snotty retorts here, by personal message, or email.

Here goes:

Technicalities first --

Waking up to find your, 'man,' the same guy . . . – omit coma before man.

the type of body the great Renaissance masters would have loved to paint. Full lips, big eyes, . . . - I’d use a colon (but everyone hates my colons) because the second sentence isn’t a sentence. It’s a clarification of the body type.

Normally, Cindy hated bar pickups, but knew tonight Sue really needed to be around some straight guys. – omit coma or add “she” after the but. some is unnecessary

Sue protested but Cindy reassured her that it would be fun. – this is the opposite of the previous error. Two complete clauses need a coma with the conjunction, even if the clauses are short. Sorry to be such a nitpicker.

She slid her fingertips over it's length, admiring the texture – its

It felt good to be held by a man again and Cindy fought the temptation to wait . . . – It’d go with a semi-colon or two sentences.

There was no doubt in Cindy's mind that Sue was getting back into the swing of things and had picked up where she'd left off with Frank's tool while Tony started kissing and fondling her. – run on sentence

Yeah, and take's part of the problem. – that’s

Who knows, she though, maybe even two. – thought

As she Stared down the length – stared

My editing is getting pretty pathetic. I’m involved in the plot; your story is fine.


Part II, my thoughts --

Good idea to identify favorites when the guys originally come over. At a bar, that’s how I would describe four guys. In fact, at that point in the story, I would only describe Sue and Cindy's favorites. Throw in the descriptions of the other guys later. Although you did a good job keeping the sentence structure varied, four descriptions reads like a menu.

You just said there wasn’t a dance floor. Now they’re on it?

With all the discussion of dialogue tagging on this discussion circle, I appreciate how you avoided the issue completely. I was never unclear who said what or how he or she said it.

I like “sorta engaged.” It’s something a horny woman would say.

"Frank was sucking on one of Sue's breast. Todd fondled the other one while covering her mouth with his." They’re still in the bar, right? I wasn’t around in the 60’s, but what about bouncers or voyeurs? As a reader, I'm thinking about surroundings.

"Frank still sat inside of Sue but Jim joined Tony in the chairs next to her. At Cindy's urging, Todd sat down first and let her be on the outside." These are stage directions for actors. To be honest, I skipped right over them. At this point, it doesn’t make any difference to me which guy is which. I’m too lazy to go back to the menu descriptions because we really don’t know anything about their personalities. Some “show don’t tell” dialogue would be helpful before this point so that the differences are important. What I want right now are some short, pat personalities: Tony’s the shy one, Jim is the funny one, Todd’s pushy, and Frank is plain. (I randomly assigned those, but you get the idea.)

Race idea – creative, original, I like it.

"But in the interest of science and highway safety, it's our duty to find out." – I like the witty indirect requests. However, I’m reminded of Jim’s comment about “the thankless job of finding out if you mean what you say.” The problem is that they all have YOUR sense of humor. I feel like Sue and Cindy are with four Rumple Foreskins (which might be a good thing, but. . . )

"It was at least three hands long from base to top, and thick as a salami." – yay! No numbers. I always agree with you there, even though I'm guilty of stating statistics. Three hands kindof sounds like measuring a race horse, I might have written “It would have taken three of her hands to encase the whole salami.” Holy shit! I just did that. I think/hope my hands are big.

The rotation idea is good because it doesn’t matter who’s who. At this point, I like Tony best, not just because. . . well, you know.

Her hands were wrapped around the thick shaft like it was a baseball bat. – ooo, I like that description.

But . . . now SUE gets Tony! Poor Cindy needs to be fucked. I don’t care if she’s sorta engaged. You don’t suck a cock like that and then just walk away.

Okay good, you got back to Cindy. That’s a difficult thing about describing simultaneous action. You stuck with Tony because he’s a guy. After the blow job, I’m thinking of Cindy. You can’t please everyone all the time.

Lover’s knot is a cool expression. But it should be lovers’ knot, right? It belongs to both of them.

Thank God for Frank. Sorry, married people, but I don’t see Cindy saving a whole lot by holding off at this point. Either her fiancé is going to hear about this orgy in awe, or he’s not going to know anything. Oral is good, but hell, it wouldn’t cut it for me. Maybe more orgasm description would have helped, but I’m left unsatisfied at the end of the story.

However, the med school/title tie up is nice, clean, and effective. Overall, well done.

Signing off after establishing myself as horny and immoral, your friend (does that help at all?), Pearl_Prynne

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

PP,

Many thanks for all the first rate critique. I'm especially glad to have gotten one as good as yours, based on the revised text with the paragraph breaks fixed, before KM posted another story.

Your picking up on how the guy's sense of humor all sounded liike mine, is especially helpful.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[cherrylips_au]

Hi RF,
I do apologise for taking so long to reply but sometimes RL doesn't allow much free time.

Ok to start with I thought you did a good job with a "Sure cure for depression".
I can appreciate the trouble in keeping control of all your characters. I did get a little confuse as to who was who after awhile so just concentrated on the action rather then who was particpating in it. I found it didn't take anything away from the story as I think it was sexy chele who said she does that with novels, well I'm guilty of it too.

You asked if it was believable plot and character wise, for most part it was. I think it fell apart a little in the bar scene, when the barman sent the waiter over, I was thinking they were going to be kicked out at that point but instead the action continued and got wilder.

The van scenes worked well, swivel seats are a novelty to me but seems like it's something normal in America. When the driver swerved, I was picturing bodies rolling all over the place in the back of the van, not something you were going for I bet.

I think you did a good job with the characters, concentrating on a few at a time and what their actions were. Even though I was confused as to who each of the men were I didn't think it mattered as you set the scene up in each case.

The matter of descriping orgasm was handled well as you showed in a variety of ways rather then just telling us they had cum. Two that stayed with me were the cum covered hand at the bar and the skunken and well used penis in the van. I think implying orgasm can work just as well as showing and telling of it.

Technically I can't say much about how it was written as I'm still learning. You did leave out or use the wrong words on occasion but I think thats been covered.

The only other comment I could make was it seemed to be Cindy's story rather then Sue's. I can understand it was easier to focus on Cindy in the van but it would have been nice to know Sue's thoughts about it all.

Also I would have liked to have seen Cindy's orgasm a bit sooner after her honourable work with the "salami".

Thanks for sharing.

 

[curious2c]

Well RF, at first read I thought that this was a good story. I did have a slight problem with it being set in the sixties and all of that hot stuff going on a bar, i.e., the masturbations and breasts being bared. Especially since Sue was going through a break up. I have three older sister who grew up throughout the sixties, I witnessed their breakups etc. I am pretty sure that this was implausible to my anyway.
I never really thought that the paragraphing was so bad, and the group effort was kept in a way so I didn't get lost.
I won't go into specific grammar, since I seem to have a problem with that myself. (like the pot calling the kettle black)
All in all I gave it a five. Even with the bar scene being too far out, I still wanted to read the whole thing.
I too, like one other person here, would have lliked to have heard more from Sue, her thoughts and feelings, since after all, it was supposed to be about her wasn't it?
K.M., as for your question on the keeping track of who is who, I kept track pretty well, had I been rushed or not exactly in the 'mood' it may have been difficult. Up until Tony is brought in as a sex interest. Then there was absoultely no problem knowing who he was.
As to paragraphs and grammar, well first of all I am not one to throw stones, nor will I try to flog a dead horse. It was all covered above by authors much better than I.
I also would like to say that Rumple di a great job on the "cums, orgasm's, cummings, and so forth.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

C2C,

Thanks for the input. With any luck, the version you read was the one I re-submitted with most of the paragraph break screw-ups (which I promise was a formatting problem) corrected.

Several folks had a problem with the bar scene. Either I should have toned it down, or spent more time describing the bar (small and dark with high-backed booths), the location of girl's booth (in the far, back corner) and Sue's position (with her back to the rest of the bar).

I'm not sure which would have worked best. The former might have made the jump to group sex in the van a little abrupt while the latter could have become tedious and slowed the pace.

For me, the real challenge was trying to give some personality to so many characters and keep them all straight while not turning the thing into a piece of stage direction. I'm now convinced each additional character in a group sex story or scene geometrically increases the difficulty of writing it clearly and well.

Tnanks again for the feedback and the five.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[rosco rathbone]

Words for orgasms

There are lots more words for "coming". From the male side alone....busting, busting a nut, nutting, get one's rocks off, spunking, ejaculating, jizzing.....I like to refer to it as "conclusion", as in "The pervy priest forced her to her knees, disordering her habit. 'Suck it, my pretty little dove. Suck it to conclusion' "...."He achieved conclusion with a bellow" There are millions of other words which escape me right now, I'll post them as I think of it.

rosco

added: any sort of word along the lines of "shot" or "emitted" or "blasted", followed by the appropriate nouns & adjectives. :"He shot a dose of spunk into her woomb"..."He squirted a thimbleful of deadly venom into her fronal hole" etc. Male orgasm is the emission of a substance from a hose.

At this time, I am not interested in describing the female orgasm, but I am sure there are more than three words with whch to do so.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

HUH?

rosco,

I'm not sure, but I've got a hunch you posted this in the wrong place. Maybe re-post this a new thread at the Author's Hangout.

RF

 

[phatcat]

Hmm, I'm confused. I posted a review a few hours back and I don't see it in the thread. Wonder if it never made it or did it get "moderated"? (If the later happened, I'm fine with it but I'd like to know.)

I guess I shoulda checked it at the time or copied it or something. Guess I'm still getting used to the forums here.