5 year old in hand cuffs

[overthebow]

You can see the video here on MSNBC

It was the second time in 10 days that the police were called to the school to deal with the kindergartener.



Video shows police handcuffing 5-year-old
Lawyer releases tape of incident involving unruly Fla. girl
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - A 5-year-old girl was handcuffed by police after she tore papers off a bulletin board and punched an assistant principal in kindergarten class, according to a video released by a lawyer for the child’s mother.

The 30-minute tape shows the child appearing to calm down before three officers pinned her arms behind her back and put on handcuffs as she screamed, “No!”

The camera was rolling March 14 as part of a classroom self-improvement exercise at Fairmount Park Elementary, attorney John Trevena said.

Trevena, who provided the tape to the media this week, said he got it from police.

“The image itself will be seared into people’s minds when you have three police officers bending a child over a table and forcibly handcuffing her,” said Trevena, who represents the girl’s mother, Inga Akins.

Police spokesman Bill Proffitt said an investigation into the matter would be complete in about two weeks and the findings would be made public.

 

[Hairgrip]

if true then serious child abuse issue, imo.

since we do not even advocate Acceptable Behaviour Contracts for under 10s here we would certainly not put them in cuffs. it's perverse.

 

[Elizafairy]

thats terrible. these schools just go to far.

 

[dolf]

great...we try to teach our kids that if they get into trouble they should look for a police officer {they hand out "a policeman is your freind" pencils when officers visit schools here} and some idiot cops have not only traumatised that child, but also any other child who saw that there, on tv or have even just heard about it.

great pr there

 

[overthebow]

Some things to note:

1) the child is black, the school official in the video is a white woman

2) this is the second time in ten days that the police came to deal with this child; what happened the first time?

3) the lawyer for the child's mother said that the school official, in shadowing the child and trying to get her to stay in her chair, provoked the child. Is that a reasonable thing to infer from the video?

 

[Holly Delight]

Sounds to me like the school officials have failed her and are showing it to the world.


*unless she was with those two kindergarten boys in the restroom, then all bets are off*

 

[Hairgrip]

1) the child is black, the school official in the video is a white woman

and?

2) this is the second time in ten days that the police came to deal with this child; what happened the first time?

dunno, but it would appear that it was not adequately dealt with.

3) the lawyer for the child's mother said that the school official, in shadowing the child and trying to get her to stay in her chair, provoked the child. Is that a reasonable thing to infer from the video?

i haven't seen the video, i am not a child carer, however i do know that the best way to influence a child to behave is to squat at their level and to be firm. i assume the child did more than attempt to remove themself from their chair?

contacting the Police to deal with a 5 year old is illogical, for all the reasons that dolf provided and also for the fact that there is such a thing as parental responsibility.

 

[HeavyStick]

The fact that the child was trying to hit adults is disturbing.

At what point should a child be restrained?

IMHO, all the officials involved did an excellent job of recording everything.

The mom of the child is not addressing some serious respect and authority issues.

It's disgusting that most people are looking this as black and white.


If my kids were acting the same as that little girl, I'd be just as pissed as every parent in America. BUT, if my kids were acting the same as that little girl and it was all taped for me to see how horrible my child was. I'd make an effort to change my child's behavior instead of blaming everyone for trying to maintain a productive education environment.

 

[Karen Kraft]

thats terrible. these schools just go to far.

Yup. Nothing like a public school education!

As for this paticular child? She's off to GITMO this Monday.

 

[FinePhilly]

The fact that the child was trying to hit adults is disturbing.

At what point should a child be restrained?

IMHO, all the officials involved did an excellent job of recording everything.

The mom of the child is not addressing some serious respect and authority issues.

It's disgusting that most people are looking this as black and white.


If my kids were acting the same as that little girl, I'd be just as pissed as every parent in America. BUT, if my kids were acting the same as that little girl and it was all taped for me to see how horrible my child was. I'd make an effort to change my child's behavior instead of blaming everyone for trying to maintain a productive education environment.

Well spoken. I feel the same way.

 

[Karen Kraft]

Some things to note:

1) the child is black, the school official in the video is a white woman

[snip]

Uh-oh! Gratuitous race-card again.

... and if the girl were Hispanic, then we would have to discuss closing/sercuring the borders?

... if she were Muslim (which I suppose she may or may not be), then we would have to discuss racial profiling?

C'mon. It's a kid who was acting up and was mistreated as a result.

 

[dolf]

contacting the Police to deal with a 5 year old is illogical.

it's insane!

call the parents, call a social worker in, get the other kids out of the room till it's sorted...but call the police?

this child obviously has some problems but this won't help her one little bit. when did the child's welfare stop coming first?

and my eldest child is 8 and she's still easily restrained without resorting to such barbaric measures. i hope the adults involved get fired and sued...i suspect they'll get off scot free.

 

[Hairgrip]

The fact that the child was trying to hit adults is disturbing.

it makes you question where she aquired such behaviour, it is generally prevelant in children who experience such behaviour at home, such as witnesses to domestic violence.

At what point should a child be restrained?

there are better ways of restraining a child than using handcuffs. it's why c&r regs are developed in schools working with behavioural difficulties.

IMHO, all the officials involved did an excellent job of recording everything.

if it hadn't been recorded they would have something to hide - recording it shows presence of mind.

It's disgusting that most people are looking this as black and white.

which i assume you view me as doing? i'm not i have to say, however i do find it strange to (a) call the police and (b) restrain using handcuffs. if the child has been so poorly behaved previously that the school chose to call police i wonder why the child was reaccpeted into the school environment. they surely should have had the behaviour addressed prior to reentry?

If my kids were acting the same as that little girl, I'd be just as pissed as every parent in America. BUT, if my kids were acting the same as that little girl and it was all taped for me to see how horrible my child was. I'd make an effort to change my child's behavior instead of blaming everyone for trying to maintain a productive education environment.

and of course the impact of her behaviour on the other pupils must be considered and acted upon. i imagine that you are looking at the issue of addressing the child's behaviour though from a position where you have faith in your skills as a parent, the ability to gain support and knowledge base of how to address change. saddly many parents do not have that knowledge, ability or understanding. there are so many parents who do not see themselves as responsible, be it for their child's behaviour, foul language or poor social ability - instead they pile the responsibility on to teachers working within a constrained enviroment and who should not be assumed to parent the child, they are there majoritively to teach.

 

[dolf]

The fact that the child was trying to hit adults is disturbing.

At what point should a child be restrained?

IMHO, all the officials involved did an excellent job of recording everything.

The mom of the child is not addressing some serious respect and authority issues.

It's disgusting that most people are looking this as black and white.


If my kids were acting the same as that little girl, I'd be just as pissed as every parent in America. BUT, if my kids were acting the same as that little girl and it was all taped for me to see how horrible my child was. I'd make an effort to change my child's behavior instead of blaming everyone for trying to maintain a productive education environment.

i totally agree that there are issues of respect and discipline to be addressed...but that in no way excuses the abuse of a child.

no 5 year old ever deserves to be treated like that no matter what!
5 y/o kids lash out if they lose their tempers...it happens. it's not good but it's not abnormal.

i don't see it as a race issue but i do think that this has been handled all wrong. she needs a firm hand and understanding, not traumatising.

 

[Holly Delight]

I understand how disruptive the child has been. Not arguing that. But to call in the police for a kindergartner seems rash. It seems to me this got elevated much too quickly to have the police on the scene. I think it could have been handled a better way. It appears that the child is not prepared to be in kindergarten just yet.

 

[HeavyStick]

it's insane!

call the parents, call a social worker in, get the other kids out of the room till it's sorted...but call the police?

this child obviously has some problems but this won't help her one little bit. when did the child's welfare stop coming first?

and my eldest child is 8 and she's still easily restrained without resorting to such barbaric measures. i hope the adults involved get fired and sued...i suspect they'll get off scot free.

How would you stop your child from hitting an adult? You'd restrain her.

In many states it's illegal for a school official to use ANY force or contact when dealing with a child.

And to remove 20-30 kids from a classroom to deal with one? How would you explain to the other parents that your child's temper tantrum comes before their children's education?

As far as them getting off scot free, I hope that doesn't happen. I hope they get a medal. People complain of how shitty the school system is, well if you fire the teachers, sue the school system you're making it harder for other teachers to work in such an environment, taking money from an already financially strapped education system.

But hey, let's not hold the child accountable for their actions that caused this, let's hold the officials accountable for trying to fix it.

 

[Karen Kraft]

it's insane!

call the parents, call a social worker in, get the other kids out of the room till it's sorted...but call the police?

this child obviously has some problems but this won't help her one little bit. when did the child's welfare stop coming first?

and my eldest child is 8 and she's still easily restrained without resorting to such barbaric measures. i hope the adults involved get fired and sued...i suspect they'll get off scot free.

Oh! So we want a “reality check scenario” of what is actually going to happen?

It will go like this:

The police review board will question the judgment of the detaining officers, and find that the “book” requires them to place handcuffs “on any person detained for purposes of transport… blah blah blah.” Then a statement will be made that the police are going to revisit (by committee with public hearings, yawn,) their local policies and procedures with respect to juvenile detainees. The report will be 2,573 pages long and reach the conclusion that officers should use better judgment when “working with particularly youthful offenders." (choke).

Then, the local Board of Education will meet to consider what to do about the teacher and the administrators involved. If the teacher is thought to have been involved in the events leading up to the incident, her conduct will be reviewed. She will be represented by an attorney from the teachers’ union. If it is determined that her conduct was outside acceptable standards, she will be removed from the classroom but will still show up “downtown” someplace and sit and watch TV and read magazines all day (at taxpayer expense, of course) still drawing full salary and benefits, while maintaining tenure.

The child will be “opportunity transferred” to a different school where she will be “counseled” on a regular basis. The civil suits will be resolved quietly with a State mediator coming in to referee the process. The girl’s college education will be fully funded by the settlement agreement.

 

[Guest]

you dont need cuffs to restrain a kid, just use your arm under one shoulder and across the chest. Sure, the kid is a monster but a lawsuit is in order here.

 

[overthebow]

I understand how disruptive the child has been. Not arguing that. But to call in the police for a kindergartner seems rash. It seems to me this got elevated much too quickly to have the police on the scene. I think it could have been handled a better way. It appears that the child is not prepared to be in kindergarten just yet.

There's a lot of information missing here. We don't know how often the child was disruptive in class, if at all.

Is there any point at which the school is justified in bring in police to handle an unruly 5 year old?

 

[Hairgrip]

And to remove 20-30 kids from a classroom to deal with one? How would you explain to the other parents that your child's temper tantrum comes before their children's education?

if it is such a huge issue that you call the police surely the other children are at risk? removing them from the class removes that risk.


i am wondering if part of the reason dolf and i see this differently is the oceanic divide, and the way that brits view things versus the usa?

 

[Holly Delight]

They dealt with the situation. No one's rights were violated. Not sure why this is news? Were the videos of the arrest on school camera or news camera? Not sure why they would have been released to the media or why the news crew would have been inside the school. The videos serve no purpose.

 

[Karen Kraft]

There's a lot of information missing here. We don't know how often the child was disruptive in class, if at all.

Is there any point at which the school is justified in bring in police to handle an unruly 5 year old?

Good point. If it is more than, ummmm -- ten times (one for each finger-yeah) then we can move right on to the cattle prod.

 

[overthebow]

They dealt with the situation. No one's rights were violated. Not sure why this is news? Were the videos of the arrest on school camera or news camera? Not sure why they would have been released to the media or why the news crew would have been inside the school. The videos serve no purpose.

The lawyer for the child's mother released the video. I think he is trying to chum the legalistic waters.

 

[overthebow]

Good point. If it is more than, ummmm -- ten times (one for each finger-yeah) then we can move right on to the cattle prod.

C'mon, answer the question.

Is there a point where it is justified to bring in police to deal with 5 year old?

 

[HeavyStick]

there are better ways of restraining a child than using handcuffs. it's why c&r regs are developed in schools working with behavioural difficulties.

Every state is different.

which i assume you view me as doing? i'm not i have to say, however i do find it strange to (a) call the police and (b) restrain using handcuffs. if the child has been so poorly behaved previously that the school chose to call police i wonder why the child was reaccpeted into the school environment. they surely should have had the behaviour addressed prior to reentry?

No, I wasn't saying you're relying on the race card, it's been mentioned in the thread a couple times. Again, many states are not allowed to touch a child. That's why the police, police only (99% of the time) have handcuffs. It wasn't a pretty sight, however being in handcuffs prevents injuries from struggling with loose arms.

and of course the impact of her behaviour on the other pupils must be considered and acted upon. i imagine that you are looking at the issue of addressing the child's behaviour though from a position where you have faith in your skills as a parent, the ability to gain support and knowledge base of how to address change. saddly many parents do not have that knowledge, ability or understanding. there are so many parents who do not see themselves as responsible, be it for their child's behaviour, foul language or poor social ability - instead they pile the responsibility on to teachers working within a constrained enviroment and who should not be assumed to parent the child, they are there majoritively to teach.

IMHO teachers are to educate, not to socially engineer the child.