4·May·2006 · "My Dearest Cordeilia" · Ravin the Poet

[The Poets]

My Dearest Cordeilia

My dearest Cordeilia,
The woman who guides my soul
From shinning stars high, to river rapids low
Straight away from my kingdom land

Strapped upon a golden stallion
Locks of hair blown gently beyond your face
Eyes glisten like diamonds from my land
As you lead us on a destiny race

O’ guide me sweet Cordeilia,
And I shall thrive and improve my hand
Lead our people through pilgrimages
As we walk down Canterbury Road

Alas we are but peasants
Lead us through God’s given grace
Fairest maiden you be in this land
Cordeilia, my dear sweet Cordeilia​

 

[flyguy69]

Bluntly, this needs lots and lots of work.
Lots.

More than it warrents.

This may not be welcome advice, but I offer it in sincere interest for your development as a writer: do not waste time in revision-- there is not a poem here worth salvaging.

There is a book you should read. It is called The Poetry Home Repair Manual by Ted Kooser, the current Poet Laureate of the U.S. It is an easy book to read and has clear, practical advice regarding the many weaknesses of a poem like this.

My Dearest Cordeilia

My dearest Cordeilia,
The woman who guides my soul
From shinning stars high, to river rapids low
Straight away from my kingdom land

Strapped upon a golden stallion
Locks of hair blown gently beyond your face
Eyes glisten like diamonds from my land
As you lead us on a destiny race

O’ guide me sweet Cordeilia,
And I shall thrive and improve my hand
Lead our people through pilgrimages
As we walk down Canterbury Road

Alas we are but peasants
Lead us through God’s given grace
Fairest maiden you be in this land
Cordeilia, my dear sweet Cordeilia​

 

[Ravin the Poet]

I find your comment very unnecessary and not helpful at all. I know I put this here to be looked at and reviewed, but to tell me there is no poem here is completely unjust and unfair to me. You didn't give me any advice at all besides telling me I should read a book. I go to school for writing, and I have many teachers who would disagree with this not being a poem. So please, if you are going to make a comment like that, give some factional evidence as to why this isn't a poem.

 

[wildsweetone]

My Dearest Cordeilia

My dearest Cordeilia,
The woman who guides my soul
From shinning stars high, to river rapids low
Straight away from my kingdom land

Strapped upon a golden stallion
Locks of hair blown gently beyond your face
Eyes glisten like diamonds from my land
As you lead us on a destiny race

O’ guide me sweet Cordeilia,
And I shall thrive and improve my hand
Lead our people through pilgrimages
As we walk down Canterbury Road

Alas we are but peasants
Lead us through God’s given grace
Fairest maiden you be in this land
Cordeilia, my dear sweet Cordeilia​

Hi Ravin and congratulations for putting a poem up here. You'll get good advice from the poets, they know their stuff. Me, I'm still learning, so take what you like and can use from my comments.

I have some questions and thoughts...

Is there any reason why you have not used periods?
Is there any reason you have capitalised the first letter in each line?
Is there any reason you have cut each stanza at the end of the fourth line?

Stanza 1
I find this spelling of Cordeilia to be odd, but that's my problem, not yours.

Is it necessary to say the stars are 'high' or that the river rapids are 'low' (some river rapids here in NZ can be pretty high, come to think of it).

Are the river rapids 'straight away', or is it the woman you are referring to?

I think this stanza feels not smooth to read. The words 'straight away' are jarring to read, and I think it's because of the grammar in the stanza.

When I sit and try to think what that first stanza says, I get an incomplete message. Either the stanza break needs to be altered or what you're saying within the stanza needs rewording for it to make sense. What is the main point of that stanza? Is it that Cordeilia is the woman who guides your soul? Or are the stars and the river rapids more important?


That's all I have time for at the moment. If you're interested in more thoughts from me I'll come back when I next get a chance. I hope something in what I've said is of use to you.

I have no need to know the answers to my questions, they're simply posed to help you think if you need to change the wording or to confirm your own thoughts that you are comfortable with what you have.

 

[The Poets]

something for us all to consider

To those who post a poem for critique:
All comments have some value. A comment on a poem is simply one person's opinion. The best approach is to thank the commenter. Instead of defending your poem, use that effort to consider what the commenter has to say. Use what is of value to you, ignore the rest.

To those who leave comments:
Try to include comments that are constructive. Point out a few examples of why a poem does or doesn't work for you. Try to offer ways to improve it.


Just some suggestions that you can use or ignore.

 

[flyguy69]

You are absolutely right, poets, and I probably should have said nothing rather than provide a critique without recommendations for improving the poem under study.

Though I actually did.

Here is my dilemma regarding this poem: it has no message. Correcting things like grammar, spelling(!) format, etc. will not improve the poem because in the end it will still say nothing of interest. The best advice I can offer this author is to scrap this poem and move on.

We've all been there. We've all written things that lack the spine of a poem. We poke at their inert forms and wonder why they can't stand on their own. Dressing them in ball gowns won't make them dance.

That is sometimes the hardest decision we make-- triage the poems and leave the weak ones behind. Put them on ice floes and wave goodbye. But it is an essential part of writing, and learning to recognize when we've written something weak is a critical skill.

Though Emily Dickenson seems to have gotten by without it.

More to this poet's immediate need: start over. If you want to write a poem in the form of a letter to "Cordeilia" start with an outline of what you want to say. Make sure it is something meaningful, interesting, and clear. Then dress it up. Look for a metaphor that expresses your sentiment in a way that readers will share, experiment with clever turns of language that will make them smile. Avoid pretentious abstractions like "destiny race," awkward phrasing like "Fairest maiden you be in this land," incorrect grammar like "O' guide me" and clumsy metaphors like "I shall thrive and improve my hand."

But most importantly, read. Read here at lit. Read in the poetry section at Chapters Bookstore. Read on-line poetry 'zines. Read that book I recommended. Read, read, read. It is the single best thing you can do for your writing.

 

[Ravin the Poet]

Might as well scrap this thread. No one understands the message behind the poem, and I just don't have the time to defend it properly. I'm not saying its perfect, but to say there is nothing there makes me question your view of poetry. This is written for political text not just off my head, so I guess I should put the political text here first.

 

[Tzara]

Hi, Ravin.

Given your reaction to the comments you have received so far, I don't think I will attempt to comment on your poem. I will, however, comment on part of your response, specifically:

No one understands the message behind the poem, and I just don't have the time to defend it properly.

I find this a curious response. If indeed you believe that "no one understands the message behind the poem" doesn't that suggest to you that you haven't been very clear in writing it?

Asking for critique and then feeling you must "defend" your writing against comments that you feel are wrong or unfair seems to me to be kind of cross-purposed. Remember that the comments are not directed at you, but at the poem. You have received honest opinions about the poem, which you are, of course, free to disregard.

Writing is difficult. Best of luck.

 

[Ravin the Poet]

Hi, Ravin.

Given your reaction to the comments you have received so far, I don't think I will attempt to comment on your poem. I will, however, comment on part of your response, specifically:I find this a curious response. If indeed you believe that "no one understands the message behind the poem" doesn't that suggest to you that you haven't been very clear in writing it?

Asking for critique and then feeling you must "defend" your writing against comments that you feel are wrong or unfair seems to me to be kind of cross-purposed. Remember that the comments are not directed at you, but at the poem. You have received honest opinions about the poem, which you are, of course, free to disregard.

Writing is difficult. Best of luck.

I just think someone coming here and telling me no where in my writing is there a poem is just out right rude. A poem is suppose to give an image. There is an image there, which to some it is vague. I said no one understands the meaning, because after thought, I realized this poem was based off political work, so unless you have read the political work, you won't understand the poem.

I just find it really odd that one person out of everyone I showed this to said this wasn't a poem and I want to know why but he has yet to give me an real evidence. Does it need work? Sure, I am not perfect. My writing is maturing. Considering most people my age write about the world being all dark and shit, I am glad I don't write that, but this is a challenge. But to tell me this isn't a poem makes me think he has no idea what a poem is, regardless if he writes them or not, or how good he is. I don't know his credientials or if he is an expert in poetry, but when I have University profs who study poetry tell me this in fact is a poem, this makes me wonder.

 

[champagne1982]

I just think someone coming here and telling me no where in my writing is there a poem is just out right rude. A poem is suppose to give an image. There is an image there, which to some it is vague. I said no one understands the meaning, because after thought, I realized this poem was based off political work, so unless you have read the political work, you won't understand the poem.

So, you admit you've produced an elitist work on a subject that appeals to no one but you and the inner circle of political science majors you hang around Starbucks with? This attitude is paramount to snobbery and circles back to why you would even ask for commentary. Do you feel you need affirmation? If so, have your political science friends read and give critique. They may gush all over you for being such a talented poet. edited to add: Oh for pity's sake. King Lear is well known on both sides of the Atlantic (and Pacific, I'm sure). Why didn't you relate your Cordeilia to Lear's youngest and most loyal daughter? The only politics in that, is the history lesson involved in how she eventually became Queen Cordelia of Britain. end of edit

I just find it really odd that one person out of everyone I showed this to said this wasn't a poem and I want to know why but he has yet to give me an real evidence. Does it need work? Sure, I am not perfect. My writing is maturing. Considering most people my age write about the world being all dark and shit, I am glad I don't write that, but this is a challenge. But to tell me this isn't a poem makes me think he has no idea what a poem is, regardless if he writes them or not, or how good he is. I don't know his credientials or if he is an expert in poetry, but when I have University profs who study poetry tell me this in fact is a poem, this makes me wonder.

In defense of the buzzing guy (flyguy69), even though he doesn't really need my help, he in absolutely no way said that your poetry was not a poem. He in fact said "there is not a poem here worth salvaging." Meaning that he saw a poem, just not a very good one, in his view.

Please, Ravin the Poet, consider what everyone has said about your grammar and sentence structure. Also, read your poem carefully aloud, do you see where the stumbles are in rhythm? Every aspect of a poem should be carefully considered (I admit I am flawed in this, I just pound 'em out, come hell or high water) and then written as though you are a friend or family to each and every potential reader. If you care for your audience you wouldn't ask them for a favourable opinion on a poem you didn't care enough about to check spelling in... *(shinning rather than shining)

These are merely my opinions and not the end word on your poem. I hope you think a little more before snubbing us and flouncing off in an artistic funk.

 

[Ravin the Poet]

Just so you know, I am an English and Creative Writing major, not a political science major. The political context I talk about is from around the 17-18th Century of British Literature.

And I do thank those for help with the rhyme and image. I just think anyone here would be pissed off if something you worked hard on was later told "could not be salvaged". I am not suppose to take that personally? That to me is a shot at me, because I spent good amounts of time editing and building this poem. Is it done, no, hence why I asked for help. But not from someone who is just going to say "nope sorry, this poem is junk, scrap it and start again."

I am re-working this poem. I will post my edits as I do them.

 

[Ravin the Poet]

Is there any reason why you have not used periods?
Is there any reason you have capitalised the first letter in each line?
Is there any reason you have cut each stanza at the end of the fourth line?

I was taught to watch my use of periods. I use to use way to many.

The capitals on the first letters are due to word since it thinks its a new sentence and every time I go back and delete it, it still turns it back into a capital.

The 4th line thing was part of the assignment.


I think I figured out the capital thing. Word needs a new "poetry" function.

 

[WickedEve]

I don't know his credientials or if he is an expert in poetry, but when I have University profs who study poetry tell me this in fact is a poem, this makes me wonder.

Personally, I don't think being a professor or majoring in poetry is necessarily going to make someone a good poet, or even allow them to always know what good poetry is. It takes more than that.
And your poem is a poem, in my opinion. I don't recall anyone saying it wasn't. I must have missed that.

 

[TheRainMan]

I just think someone coming here and telling me no where in my writing is there a poem is just out right rude. . .

just a question, Ravin -- why would you put a poem up on a thread meant for "intense examination and critique, free from ego-stroking and distractions" (as stated in the thread guidelines) and then act so defensively at the first sign of criticism?

your reaction to fly's comments is quite poor, and all it will do is turn other writers and their suggestions away. i might possibly have left my ideas on the poem (which you could have judged and either acted upon or not, as you saw fit), but there is no way i'd do it now.

i'm sure others will have similar reactions, especially since you have shifted the momentum of the thread away from the poem and onto you.

as a direct contrast to your reaction, my one suggestion is that you read the thread "Fledgling poet needs advice." perhaps you will see there the benefits of accepting constructive criticism for what it is (advice on the poem, and not an attack on you). there, rockon1's attitude is not that of the fledgling poet he/she claims to be, but of a seasoned writer and mature individual.

you might also see the huge improvement from version 1 to version 2 of the poem there, which had a direct correlation to the poet's fine attitude.

 

[Ravin the Poet]

I would like people to know that I do accept peoples views and opinions but not when then are just outright rude. I took the review of the imagrey in the first stanza, and I am reworking it. I took the review of the rhyme (not really any rhyme but ok) and am looking into it to review.

I am use to harsh reviews. I go to school for writing so of course I get them. I lashed out because someone decided to take this from my poem into a personal account. By not offering any evidence, the review is taken away from the poem and more on the ability to write.

Granted I just recently had a talk on another form about the "behind the computer" factor, where people are more able to say what they want with fret of physical harm. I know I am in this area since I am more able to defend my work because no one is there to shhh me.

I would like help, but this is where my issue comes in. On one side, I am told to leave the poem as it is. A few minor changes perhaps, but mostly the poem is finished. On the other hand, I am told there is nothing to salvage. How do you go from the extreme left to the extreme right? I hope you can see why I defended the way I did. I was a little harsh, and you know, I knew coming here I would be because its the same when ever you enter a new group. I appologize to those I offended. I will continue to post here. But I hope you can see why this has me in a middle place. Someone people here only post poems here. This is where they get everything done. I do not. My writing normally goes through the University first, online second.

So anyways, I would like a review on the poem if you would. I will take in all into account and decide if I want re-edit of not. I am also going to post the political work I used for this poem. To find where I am coming from click below.


The Women of England by Sarah Stickney Ellis

Hope this can help.

 

[champagne1982]

Thanks for offering up your poem. I offer the following as my own personal opinion on the poem, NOT ITS WRITER. You are the master of this verse and as such please feel free to use or discard my suggestions and ideas as YOU see fit. I cannot say, with certainty, that following my editorial would make the poem better for anyone else, just that I would enjoy it more if you incorporated a bit of it.

My comments inside the narrative are simply to substantiate my view that you're not telling us a story with a moral or a meaning so much as you seem to be painting a quick vignette. With that being the case, I think you should clean up your language, solidify a couple of the images and cut the poem's length by half.

My Dearest Cordeilia

My dearest Cordeilia,
The woman who guides my soul
From shinning stars high, to river rapids low If you do nothing else, correct the spelling of "shining". Your use of shinning has me imagining her climbing up an elm in some sort of medieval gown and peaked cap.
Straight away from my kingdom land

Strapped upon a golden stallion
Locks of hair blown gently beyond your face
Eyes glisten like diamonds from my land
As you lead us on a destiny race

Thus far in this poem you've painted a pretty picture (apart from the shinnying up a tree bit) but you haven't created a metaphor or given us a conflict that justifies your illustrious view of this creature, Cordeilia. I think you'd be more effective in painting this woman's role if you did happen to allude to Shakespeare's Cordelia in King Lear. This would be more in keeping with the images of the 12th and 13th centuries and with your use of "Romantic" era English.

O’ guide me sweet Cordeilia,
And I shall thrive and improve my hand
Lead our people through pilgrimages
As we walk down Canterbury Road

Now that you've provided a setting of your poem in this strophe, I am still forced to imagine medieval England. The shrine of Thomas Becket was a favourite destination of lepers, the blind and epileptics. Can you make it more clear that you're actually talking about women of the 19th century, before the sufferage movement and not about the Queen of the Britons?

Alas we are but peasants
Lead us through God’s given grace
Fairest maiden you be in this land
Cordeilia, my dear sweet Cordeilia

The repetive use of Cordeilia seems to invoke a mysterious power within your character. I can't find this elusive quality and I'm left thinking that all the narrator is, is a besotted suitor of a country lady with a penchant for climbing trees while not wearing panties.

Please don't take this critique personally, it is about your poem, not you. I think you could have a powerful metaphor for the powerful influence of women who still retain their femininity and maintain their roles as instillers of moral fortitude if you did grab the historic Cordelia, but that is for you to decide.

 

[Ravin the Poet]

So basically make Cordeilia more 18th-19th C as she is. I am still new to using that native langauge. And I can see making her more of a "power" figure. I'll look into using the more powerful metephor for the woman. That is what I am aiming for. For her to be more of a spiritual leader.

Thanks.

And yes I will correct the spelling.

 

[MyNecroticSnail]

Is there any reason you have capitalised the first letter in each line?
Is there any reason you have cut each stanza at the end of the fourth line?

I was taught to watch my use of periods. I use to use way to many.

The capitals on the first letters are due to word since it thinks its a new sentence and every time I go back and delete it, it still turns it back into a capital.

Why are you using Word, (you can use either notepad or wordpad) there is nothing complex about the format here. As for the Caps in the beginning of the line, I beleive that was the accepted style back in the 18-19th C. I would keep them if you are aiming for that.

 

[Ravin the Poet]

Why are you using Word, (you can use either notepad or wordpad) there is nothing complex about the format here. As for the Caps in the beginning of the line, I beleive that was the accepted style back in the 18-19th C. I would keep them if you are aiming for that.

Yeah looking at my text capitals are used all the time. And I just have this strong dislike for word/note pad..

 

[champagne1982]

Yeah looking at my text capitals are used all the time. And I just have this strong dislike for word/note pad..

If you don't want word to automatically fix the caps at the beginning of each line after a break, all you need to do is turn the auto-correct option off. This is found under your "tools" button.

 

[friazz88]

helooo

First, I appologize if anyone else has already given you advice on this subject, but if they did, well...I guess I'll just be reinforcing it. First, one of the most important aspects, to me, in writing a "good poem" is not JUST what the poet writes about, or how skilfully he does it, but in what manner he sets up his poetry. You have four stanzas of four lines each...organized? Not quite. The idea of symmetry is there, but punctuation should be just as important. When reading a poem, punctuation marks are vital in getting your message across. Commas provide rests or breaks, capitalization could emphasize importance (it seems you've done that), and these "..." may add suspense.....haha, well i felt like i was reading one story in one big breath. No periods. I couldn't stop to rest. Your rhyme scheme doesnt work for me too well either. The stanzas go ABBC, ABCB, ABCD, and ABCD..not a good rhyme scheme at all. Try making the first stanza rhyme exactly with the others. This poem has the potential to be a pretty poem to read with some work.