3 weeks ago, Indian Farmers scored a huge win against Corporations

[LupusDei]

But, they were making it all up on the fly, and guided by ideology more than engineering. I'm sure modern agribiz methods are more efficient.

Soviet communal farm was built on idealized model of Russian traditional village, but grew out of proportion becoming in essence regional quasi-governments running in parallel with the (ostensibly) elected town committees. (Soviets excelled at creating byzantine and convoluted parallel hierarchies competing for power at all levels.) Most of them totally collapsed at economic system change, but there was a couple examples when a company of literally handful men took over great proportions of the actual farming business, instead of thousands the abomination employed. Then, that larger number included libraries, choirs and dance troupes that were left to navigate their own way in market economy.

 

[oggbashan]

It is interesting to speculate how things might have gone in Russia, if, instead of the Bolsheviks, the peasant-based Socialist Revolutionaries had come to power.

That was unlikely. The Russian communists had to fight the White Russians (assisted by the UK, the USA, and others). A peaceful party couldn't have won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War

The US had 596 casualties in that war. The total, both sides = 3 million? Civilians 7 to 12 million.

 

[LupusDei]

It is interesting to speculate how things might have gone in Russia, if, instead of the Bolsheviks, the peasant-based Socialist Revolutionaries had come to power.

My favorite what if of that sort is, what if Trotsky would have taken over instead of Stalin, and not backpedaled like the later did, but continued the ruling reforms (Lenin was experimentalist who went through an awful lot of different economic ideas in incomprehensibly short time, and his last fad was to basically restore private entrepreneurship at least at smaller scales) arriving at large, basically at what China did in the nineties. Downstream you can have whatever you want, basically.

 

[pecksniff]

India is a huge precedent, let's see if it emboldens other farmers from other countries, to organize.

There are political organizations of farmers in America, see the National Grange of the Order of Patrons of Husbandry (usually called just "the Grange"), but one never seems to hear from them, much, since the high point of Populism in the late 19th Century.

 

[pecksniff]

I'm aware. It's just another example of Bayer's insidious practices. You know, in case you needed more proof they are morally reprehensible bastards.

Bayer? I thought Roundup was a Monsanto product -- are the companies part of the same conglomerate?

 

[mayfly13]

tl; ..

 

[mayfly13]

tl; ..

 

[mayfly13]

Monsanto has a long track record or lies, deception, and extortion.

It has been a part of many notable environmental disasters, including Agent Orange and PCBs, research on uranium for the Manhattan Project that led to the construction of nuclear bombs, styrene monomer, an endless line of pesticides and herbicides, rBGH (recombinant bovine growth hormone), GM crops (corn, potatoes, tomatoes, soy beans, cotton), and its most significant product to date-Lies, Factual Distortions, and Omissions.[9]

Yes, that relates to another interesting thing that Vandana Shiva said.
That she finds it scary that the same companies which produced human-killing gases for Auschwitz during ww2, then turned to producing pesticides and herbicides.
(btw -- just like those doctors who carried research at Unit 731 (Japan) during ww2, and who were secretly flown over to Allies reasearch labs., to help with treatment of frost bites etc)


Now I don't agree with her -- yes they did awful things during ww2, but after ww2 they were used to do 'good things' by governments. It's not due to that ww2 legacy.
It's all due to the typical corporate greed and psychopathy given free rain by Raeganism/Thatcherism.

 

[pecksniff]

That she finds it scary that the same companies which produced human-killing gases for Auschwitz during ww2, then turned to producing pesticides and herbicides.

AIUI, Zyklon-B originally was developed as an insecticide.

The SS guards were not entirely lying when they told the inmates they were going to the showers for "delousing" -- that shit would've killed their lice, all right.

 

[mayfly13]

AIUI, Zyklon-B originally was developed as an insecticide.

The SS guards were not entirely lying when they told the inmates they were going to the showers for "delousing" -- that shit would've killed their lice, all right.

jesus.

Hey. Stuff that you guys probably know, but I just found out:

Apparently Narendra Modi didn't try to impose those 3 contentious laws because he's a tirrant. He did it because the US, Canada, Australia and the UK demanded it of him, as a condition for India to join WTO.

Gravitas: Truth behind foreign endorsements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYj_E0-ahZk

Just like they did with Greece: the IMF imposed austerity measures and dismantling of certain infrastructures, as a pre-condition to joining EU.

How screwed up is that?
Neocolonial expansion and destruction of local infrastructures 101

 

[GothTalk]

jesus.

Hey. Stuff that you guys probably know, but I just found out:

Apparently Narendra Modi didn't try to impose those 3 contentious laws because he's a tirrant. He did it because the US, Canada, Australia and the UK demanded it of him, as a condition for India to join WTO.

Gravitas: Truth behind foreign endorsements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYj_E0-ahZk

Just like they did with Greece: the IMF imposed austerity measures and dismantling of certain infrastructures, as a pre-condition to joining EU.

How screwed up is that?
Neocolonial expansion and destruction of local infrastructures 101

You want to be part of the gang you gotta get with the program bubba. No different than any other union or association. The rules and standards are what make the union, organization, gang, corporation, nation state etc. what they are.

Especially considering it's 100% voluntary, nothing colonial or nefarious about it.

If India wants to join the WTO, they have to comply with WTO rules.

 

[mayfly13]

You want to be part of the gang you gotta get with the program bubba. No different than any other union or association. The rules and standards are what make the union, organization, gang, corporation, nation state etc. what they are.

Especially considering it's 100% voluntary, nothing colonial or nefarious about it.

If India wants to join the WTO, they have to comply with WTO rules.

US and Canada are the only 1st or 2nd world countries
whose corporate supermarket vendors aren't required to label as "genetically modified (or not)"
the food they sell.


But... Freedom! Free market!

 

[GothTalk]

US and Canada are the only 1st or 2nd world countries
whose corporate supermarket vendors aren't required to label as "genetically modified (or not)"
the food they sell.

Ok...... and in the hood it's blood in blood out.

I never claimed the WTO had equality in it's rules or was even a decent thing much less for everyone involved. It may be a terrible organization, IDK.

What I do know is that every organization of every kind out there and their membership are defined by compliance with a certain set of rules and or qualifications and that it's not an inherently nefarious or malicious thing. It's just how people organize.

But... Freedom! Free market!

Yup, if they don't want to participate, they don't have to, if the price or product ain't right they don't have to buy/sell. As with all other social activities in the modern 1st world commerce and trade are seen as at their best when done voluntarily and with mutual consent.

I hope it continues to be that way and push towards more liberty.

 

[pecksniff]

Let's not have any pseudoscience here -- whatever other objections there might be, GMOs are food safe to eat.

 

[mayfly13]

1. As to Walmart and Costco? They exploit foreign workers in sweatshops and in unsafe working conditions.

2.They also impose heavy fines on suppliers and manufacturers if their shipments are late.

So they're not only exploiting foreign workers but domestic ones as well. There's a pretty heavy human cost to those 'cheap prices' and 'savings'.

2. Good one.
While no.1 (the exploitation of employees) has been discussed at length in publications and in forums, no.2 -- far less often.

It would be interesting to read more threads about how they are
--exploiting local distributors
--and gutting small businesses through monopoly (the 'free market' is an illusion).

 

[mayfly13]

omg this chick Vandana Shiva is fantastic!!
India is a mix of backwardness (misogyny, rapes and disrespect of others) and outstanding world-class intellectuals.

I usually follow Renegade.inc., because they invite public figures that otherwise I would never have heard about. BUT they are almost exclusively Western.
Whereas Russel Brand went one step further and invited this fantastic non-Western public intellectual & activist. He's even more revolutionary than Renegade.inc.! because he's building this transnational community & exchange of ideas.

 

[Champakian]

The question is, is an agrarian "way of life" worth preserving at the cost of economic efficiency?

That was not an idyllic life, which led to the observation, short, nasty and brutish...


Or was that British?

 

[Champakian]

...

As to Walmart and Costco? They exploit foreign workers in sweatshops and in unsafe working conditions. They also impose heavy fines on suppliers and manufacturers if their shipments are late. So they're not only exploiting foreign workers but domestic ones as well. There's a pretty heavy human cost to those 'cheap prices' and 'savings'.

If they didn't, then they would be out of business and you'd be bitching about someone else...

Eventually manufacturing will be all mechanized, as will burger flipping.

We're dragging our feet because of the useless people problem.

Yeah, you'll be able to feed them, then what?

 

[astuffedshirt_perv]

jesus.

Hey. Stuff that you guys probably know, but I just found out:

Apparently Narendra Modi didn't try to impose those 3 contentious laws because he's a tirrant. He did it because the US, Canada, Australia and the UK demanded it of him, as a condition for India to join WTO.

Good lord this thread just continues to plumb new depths of batshit crazy. India was a founding member of GATT in 1948. GATT was the forerunner of the WTO, which India joined in 1995, just like the US, Canada, Australia and the UK. But go right on telling yourself these fantasies, you say it enough maybe one day even you'll believe it.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Not a whole lot of traction on the evils of Monsanto. How about Union Carbide. Can we all agree that they are corporate shit birds?

Their chemicals, the precursors to certain plastics, are found in the environment, biota and animals everywhere on Earth. They are the most likely cause for decreased sperm count in humans.

 

[pecksniff]

Not a whole lot of traction on the evils of Monsanto. How about Union Carbide. Can we all agree that they are corporate shit birds?

Their chemicals, the precursors to certain plastics, are found in the environment, biota and animals everywhere on Earth. They are the most likely cause for decreased sperm count in humans.

I suppose we should encourage anything that decreases sperm count in humans.