1st person, 2nd person, 3rd?

[Kellysed]

Having posted several stories before seeing some of the premiere (and I mean that) authors' ideas about 1st person vs. 3rd, I'd like to start a discussion.

I've written several stories in 1st and 2nd person--You and I are both subjects of the story; written from first, with the reader's point of view being the 2nd. Gotten tremendous feedback from readers who say they read the stories to each other in bed and spark some nice encounters.

Trying to conform to some authors' stated literary examples, I wrote and posted a story in 3rd person and have now had several fans say they prefer the 1st/2nd.

Other input? Is it that 1st/2nd is just more difficult to write well? Is 1st w/o 2nd too self-centered and hard for a reader to get into--literally? I'd also like to hear from those who would defend 1st; personally, I find it more intimate and more erotic.

Kelly (of Kelly's Education) http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=125538

 

[peachykeen]

I have to say I never think in advance about what a story will be told in; it just develops in my head for a few days before I even start writing and whatever form it takes up there is how it comes out!

That said, I do tend towards first person, particularly in erotic writing. It is more intimate and when I tell the story it is almost like I am literally looking through the eyes of the character, feeling with her body (haven't gotten the guts to try to write from a man's persepctive yet).

 

[KillerMuffin]

First person: The protagonist/antagonist is "I."

Second person: The protagonist/antagonist is "you." If "I" shows up in the story, it's still just second person.

Third person: The progtagonist/antagonist is "he" or "she."

I absolutely loathe second person unless it's done well. I'm rude enough to say that I don't know of anyone who has the talent to pull off second person well.

Second person has the unique ability to alienate half of your audience without even trying. "You love it when you stuff your cock in my ass and pound me away."

Okay, I don't have a cock. I don't like being told what I love to do with a non-existent appendage. For the men who can fit into "you's" physical description, how many of them love to fuck asses? How many of them love to just pound away? If they don't love it, they're alienated from the character because it's not what they would do.

I see "you" in the story and it's not in dialogue, it's an instant back click. The feeling of speaking directly to the reader when writing in second person is a false closeness because second person makes too many assumptions of the reader that just can't be universally true.

The exception, of course, is something written in the form of a letter.

Most of my stuff is written third person-limited, past tense. I do have a second person story, but I don't like to brag about it. Some is in first person. None is in present tense. It just doesn't work for me.

My preference is to read third person. First is just fine, though. It's easier to write in, but more difficult to write well in. I prefer past tense because that's what we always read, but present tense written well is just as good. I won't read second person.

 

[Couture]

They all have their advantages and disadvantages. However, I prefer to read stories in first and third person. The stories feel more natural because this is what most literature is written in.

When is the last time you read a book in second person? I have read a few not-quite-so-obvious second person books, but they sure as hell didn't say, "Then you threw me down on the bed and ripped my panties off." Argh! No, I didn't!

The problem is, you don't know whether it is a man or woman, black or white, young or old person reading your story. This makes the majority of second person stories read in a clumsy fashion.

I prefer first person stories, because it seems more intimate. However, if things are going to happen in the story that the main character isn't going to be around for, you should use third person. This lets you avoid the "Then my wife told me that she let his hand rest on her bare thigh and didn't stop him when it moved higher." Ack! This won't even hold up in a court of law much less a sex story.

And then his hand rested on her thigh beneath the table. He was supposed to be her husband's best friend . How dare he? She felt it move beneath her skirt. Blushing and glancing nervously around, she prayed for her husband's return.

See how much more you can do with third person in this instance?

 

[n-erasmus]

Which person is *THE* person??

Well, in general I prefer either first or second person. The story is better if the author can step out of themselves enough to create a *CHARACTER*. Second person is potentiall even better, but more difficult to pull off. Third person is generally available on CNN or the wire services and that is the problem. Most third person stories, especially erotic ones, come across as news stories. Dialogue is the only way into their heads and it is hard to do well. First and second *START* in a character's head, so everything should (and does) reveal something about the speaker. If the author is naive, it tells us about the author.

So. A defense of the first person. ymmv.

 

[ronde]

I'm comfortable writing in either first or third person, but I never write in second person. I don' t know any readers well enough to tell them "you did (whatever) to me". I also don't read these stories, because I've never started one that could make me want to read more than a few sentences. I don't need someone else to imagine my thoughts and actions for me.

First person gives one character's view of the world within the story, and can work well if that character is the subject of the storyline. It is more difficult to introduce other characters as you would like them to be seen, because you have to contend with the biased perceptions of "I". A good way to distort "I's" perception is with dialogue between "I" and the other characters. I like writing in first person if I want the reader to step into the character's shoes and experience the story from his viewpoint. I haven't yet tried a female viewpoint.

Third person allows an author to depict things as he/she wishes them to be perceived. I don't believe it's less difficult to write in third person, but it is easier to define characters. For me, the actual narration of the story is much the same as first person, except that the narrator in third person is someone outside the story. One must watch this third person carefully, because he/she may reflect the bias of the writer rather than of the characters.

I'm speaking of third person omniscent in this regard. I haven't tried anything in third person limited, but I do enjoy works written from this POV.

 

[Graymouse]

Well, I agree with what appears to be the majority so far in saying that I just can't stomach second person, and for all the same reasons listed. As for first vs. third person, I like them both if done well. Obviously, it's much easier to unobtrusively reveal information about your main character in first person since you have that individual's unique biases and dialect at your disposal. In first person, speaking as my main character, I can say, "He was a good-looking guy." If I do that in third person, the nagging voice of my old creative writing teacher always pipes up with "Show, don't tell." Anyway, biases revealed in third person are obviously those of the narrator, which seems somehow less relevant to the story, I think.

I tend to write a lot of first person, it seems, although I also write third person limited at times. Done properly, third person omniscient has a nice effect, but I think it has the potential to get jumbled and crazy bouncing around from view-point to viewpoint. I've never done it sucessfully.

Interestingly, I seem to write primarily in present tense; I'm not sure why. Something about the immediacy of the actions appeals, I guess.

 

[entitled]

IMHO, third person is the easiest to read, to write, and to get into. It's easiest to get involved if it seems as if you were looking into somebody else's... um... activities at the moment.

As for the writing itself, the third person is again the easiest. The author is describing what happens to somebody else without saying "YOU do ___" or "YOU feel ____" when it's a very good possibility that it wouldn't happen that way to the person that's reading. The characters can (and probably should be) based on the author's emotions and physical reactions, but these things aren't forced onto the reader. If that makes any sort of sense.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Trying to conform to some authors' stated literary examples, I wrote and posted a story in 3rd person and have now had several fans say they prefer the 1st/2nd.

Your problem may have to do with intimacy. As coutoure mentioned, each one has its own advantages and built-in disadvantages. While third person is the most flexible, its main drawback is the way it puts distance between the reader and the action. First and second are much more restrictive but inherently more intimate.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[lexium]

Your problem may have to do with intimacy. As coutoure mentioned, each one has its own advantages and built-in disadvantages. While third person is the most flexible, its main drawback is the way it puts distance between the reader and the action. First and second are much more restrictive but inherently more intimate.

Rumple Foreskin

I agree, however I like 3rd person because it allow readers a chance to see all perspectives. I find 1st harder because it's like you are trying to make the reader believe that the story is true. I think it is easier to make a story believable if written in the 3rd person.

Lexium

 

[QuietlyMakingNoise]

Great Thread

I personally like to read erotic stories in the first person. I love to get into the feelings and emotions of the main character of the story. When I write, I create a character that I want to explore all the emotions and feelings with, it helps me explore.

In the two erotic stories that I published, I used the first person perspective. The story I'm currently writting also uses the first person.

 

[Alex De Kok]

All of my posted work here on Literotica is in either First or Third person, past tense, which is also what I like to read.

I don't care for present tense, although it can succeed if done well. Too often it isn't and ends up irritating instead of entertaining. I've never tried it and have no intention of doing so.

I have only ever written one piece in second person. It was written for one particular lady and was only ever read by her, which is the only way I think second person works.

Alex

 

[Route66Girl]

I want you to know

I agree with KM and others who say that second person imposes far too many limitations, both for reader and writer, in storytelling. Like many others, I tend to back click out of second person stories.

However, second person lends itself very well to verse. It's often used in poetry, and so many songs are written and crooned to "you."

It's an interesting contradiction. We can easily relate to songs to "you" regardless of our own sex and that of the singer. We can identify with it even if the song describes events and circumstances we, the listeners, have never experienced. But when it comes to reading even just a short one-page story, the leap hard to make.

Hmm... most illogical, Captain!

I use first and third person for all my writing, and can't say I have a favorite. It depends on the story, and the process of discovery needed as the plot rolls along.

And if I start to get into the details of how that works, I'll go on forever, lol.

Good thread

 

[AngelAmanda]

They make good bedtime PLAYS!

Like an earlier postee said they are good for reading in bed to each other. Maybe we can suggest to Laurel that a new catagory is needed. That of bedtime stories where all 1st person 2nd person works would be filed. That way those who are turned off by it won't get all excited and then have to bail and those who love to read to each other can find stories easy.

 

[n-erasmus]

Well put !!

I agree Amanda -- let them take their ire elsewhere.

Second person is **PERSONAL** (very) and pulls you in to the story, but is hard to do in contexts other than either a letter or a one-sided transcript of a wiretap transcript, say.

And it can help create a play. Hmmm. Nice.

But there are those who do *NOT* like such stuff at all. Too bad. Don't read it then, but don't tell those of us who enjoy that we *CANNOT* possibly enjoy such inferior stuff.

I actually prefer first person to second by a bunch, and third can be good. But it is easier to write dull stuff in third than first, except for the most infantile raves.

 

[gauchecritic]

who's on first?

For my two penn'orth I'd like to point out that the majority of stories are written in 1st AND 3rd person, writing in purely 1st person is severely limiting and would allow an author to describe only their own feelings and actions and no one elses. "I could feel magical sensations reaching from my outer lips into my secret inner self" is 1st person, add the words "as he slid his rigid member once, twice and three times into my aching twat" and you add a third person.

I agree that 2nd person viewpoints are very much for specific readers, however those specific readers could in fact be anyone, is that their allure?

Gauchecritic

 

[n-erasmus]

Touche -- I meant the narrator

Well, I suppose I *WAS* presuming that the subject matter was about the person of the storyteller, the narrator of the happenings/happened. A story with only one character would be very hard to make interesting, I would think. A very introspective diary??

The real attraction of the first person for me is that it provides a different avenue to go along with the "he said she said" of third person omniscient.

 

[Couture]

I am writing in the first person right now and I think gauchecritic needs to learn the differences between points of view. Yes, I am able to talk about a lot of people and describe a lot of things. The only limit I have is that I can only talk about things that I hear, see, and feel. This is very personal as I'm letting the readers know exactly how I feel and think. They are getting an insight into me. Me can be a character in a story and not necessarily the writer.

I am writing in second person write now and you need to learn the differences between points of view. Yes, you. Who else would I be talking to? This is not only intimate for me, but I'm getting intimate with you. Here's the difficulty. You may know the difference between first and second person or you may be like some others and not have a clue. The trick in using second person is to either not make assumptions about the reader or to write it as a letter to someone that the reader happened to pick up.

Couture was writing in third person and stated that gauchecritic needed to learn the differences between points of view.

Gauchecritic, on seeing what Couture wrote, slammed her keyboard down and said, "Fuck you Couture."

See, it's less personal with third person, but there really aren't any limits as to what someone can write about.

 

[gauchecritic]

Why's on third

Third-person n. (gram.) The form of a pronoun, verb, etc indicating persons or things referred to, as distinct from the speaker or addressee(s)

Therefore Speaker and addressee are first and second persons respectively

Viewpoint n. 1 a point of view 2 a place for viewing

Viz; who you are

Wanna argue that one?

Gauchecritic walked away, her head held ridiculously high.

 

[Couture]

We were talking about what point of view you are writing the story in, not forms of pronouns.

I mean, hell, take a step back and look at what you are saying. It doesn't even make sense in context with anything anyone else has written on this thread.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I'm not too sure why this person is getting so snotty about those of use who don't like second person. The question was about our views on the viewpoints. Should we lie and say that we like second person to pander to those who do?

I'm okay with the fact that you don't like my views on second person and that you have different views on it. That's fine. I can't stand it so I don't read it. I don't vote on it and I don't send email to the author. I just quietly backclick and go my merry way. I mention it when I'm specifically asked for an opinion on it, as I was in this thread. No harm, no foul.

If you don't like my opinion on it, feel free to disagree and say so. There is simply no need to be snide about it. I am not nor will I be snide about your preference for second person. I'm not surprised at it either. I'm assuming you're male and you find the vast majority of second person is written by females to a male "you."

Not asking to be offensive, but out of genuine curiosity. Do you enjoy second person stories where the "you" character turns out to be the opposite gender of what you are? I find it impossible to do this and I think it's interesting that someone else might be able to.

Incidentally, I'm against the whole new category idea. I can back click out of second person stories easily enough.

 

[Whispersecret]

Back in the days when Laurel wrote all the one-liner descriptions, she would word it so it was obvious that the story was written in second person. (She doesn't care for 2nd person either.) That way readers knew ahead of time.

Kiki's Cock Hungry Mouth- Kiki sucks your cock in a big way.

With the new script, people now write their own, and I doubt that it even occurs to writers to forewarn the readers. Or does Laurel catch them and reword them???

 

[n-erasmus]

Ok you two

You must learn that I am me and you are you even if she does not agree and that we are all playing with tags to explain what I am talking about, which I hope is what you are talking about and she too. So ... tags which obfuscate are not really useful except for jokers and scoundrels.

Klar??

(I probably enjoyed writing that more than you enjoyed decoding it! )

 

[Wicked-N-Erotic]

I am one of those persons who tend to write in 2nd person. It's just my style so to speak. I don't put in much physical description, like tall, thin, 8 inches, etc., that way a reader can put their self into the character much easier. However, after reading this thread I have noted one thing I never thought of before, it was Killer Muffin who said it. "You love it when you stuff your cock in my ass and pound me away.", I never gave a thought to the reader not being a male as I have written the 2nd person to be.
So from a readers stand point with the 2nd person, because I want readers who like this style to read, should I/we tag it to be known that it's 2nd person?
Also, maybe this isn't the place for this, since Killer Muffin seems to be so blunt and honest with critique, I would love to hear KM's opinion of my 2nd person story. If you'd like to oblige KM please let me know. I'd appreciate the honest, straight forward opinion.
Wicked

 

[KillerMuffin]

I wouldn't tag it that way. I didn't tag mine. Yes, I have a second person story. Anyway. Laurel can change it if she likes or the reader can hit back click.

Second person can be done well. There really is nothing more intimate than second person, providing the reader roughly matches the "you" character. Since this is actually pretty rare (he or she may have the plumbing, but may not behave the same way as "you"), you don't have any intimacy with a lot of your readers while you have a tremendous amount with smaller portion of your readers.

Second person is personal preference, however, you should know your audience and target your writing to them. If you intend to write to men who fit your profile of "you" then have at it. Don't expect people who don't fit your target audience to read and enjoy. However, if you want to target both genders, move out of second person. Literotica--as a site--has one target audience, people who want to read sexually explicit material. Lit caters to every taste of sexually explicit material that it can barring children.

Second person is welcomed by Literotica and by some readers. Second person is not welcomed by a majority of readers. At least in my opinion.

On a side note, I'll be glad to look it over, since we had this discussion, I won't mention the POV again. It may take some time, though. I have a list to get through and I've been lax.