194,513 words.

[CWatson]

That's how long my latest story is, all chapters piled one atop the other. And it's liable to only get longer, as I go back and flesh out the last two chapters, which (I think) are too abrupt and don't provide sufficient closure.

Two years less 43 days. 16 chapters--two of them eaten by the computer and subsequently rewritten in their entirety, so, actually, 18 chapters. Two incidents of giving up and throwing the towel in--one because the real-life inspiration of the story felt uncomfortable with it and asked me to stop, the second because she broke up with me. (Yes, the story actually outlasted the relationship it was based on.) 194,513 words--something like 15% of my lifetime fiction-writing total.

...I don't mean to brag. I just think I deserve a little exultation.

 

[neonlyte]

You deserve it. It is an achievement.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, quite an output. And fine as long as you weren't thinking of trying to publish it in print. Your interest/attention span in writing such a tome might easily outdistance that of a buyer picking it up to read.

 

[CWatson]

No, I wasn't planning to. Chapter 11 hits Literotica store shelves in, oh, probably 24 hours.

(Though, for the record, some crazy Brit once sold a 250,000-word story. It's called Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.)

 

[Belegon]

No, I wasn't planning to. Chapter 11 hits Literotica store shelves in, oh, probably 24 hours.

(Though, for the record, some crazy Brit once sold a 250,000-word story. It's called Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.)

Yeah, but by the time she sold it, they had no choice but to buy it.

 

[sr71plt]

I love it when writers become self-delusional. That's the fifth book of the series, not the first (which has all sorts of ramifications attached), and it's an anomally--which by definition means it ain't gonna happen to much of anyone else.

It's OK, never-ending rambling is made for the Internet world. If you're going to do it, this is the place.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I agree with SR71PLT

At 195K it better be WAR & PEACE, and even if it is, it wont be published.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Yes, quite an output. And fine as long as you weren't thinking of trying to publish it in print. Your interest/attention span in writing such a tome might easily outdistance that of a buyer picking it up to read.

Hey, some of Varian's stuff is that long, and it flies off the shelves!

I think people like longer works, they feel they're getting more bang (so to speak ) for their buck!

 

[Shwenn]

200,000 is a good size book for me. That's the size book I would consider satisfying.

Most are about half that and I consider that short.

You guys are talking about this like it's really, really long. I would say 400,000 is really long. I'm thinking Cryptonomicon, something like that. That is what I would consider an investment. I have to know you are good before I'll take that plunge.

 

[sr71plt]

Hey, some of Varian's stuff is that long, and it flies off the shelves!

I think people like longer works, they feel they're getting more bang (so to speak ) for their buck!

From the shelves? Really? It's in print? I think I mentioned that e-booking was the realm for something this long, not print. They are in print? Really?

And isn't "flying off the shelves" relative? Like 50,000 copies? Which is the edge of the shelf for a print book.

Really? That many in print? Really? Wow.

I'm doing ones--both longer and shorter than print guidelines--in the e-book realm that I know without a doubt wouldn't have a chance in print.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

From the shelves? Really? It's in print? I think I mentioned that e-booking was the realm for something this long, not print. They are in print? Really?

And isn't "flying off the shelves" relative? Like 50,000 copies? Which is the edge of the shelf for a print book.

Really? That many in print? Really? Wow.

I'm doing ones--both longer and shorter than print guidelines--in the e-book realm that I know without a doubt wouldn't have a chance in print.

You're such a smartass

I guess I should have said VIRTUAL shelves.

 

[sr71plt]

You're such a smartass

I guess I should have said VIRTUAL shelves.

And maybe used the word "relative"?

But, as I noted, you were responding to something I wasn't saying. I'd already said tomes of this size for a nonestablished writer were best offered in the Internet world.

However, there is a another reality here. Books written over a long time as serializations (posted as written) that push up over 100,000 are almost always rambling and unfocused. The happy news is that some readers seem to enjoy this "I never want it to end and don't care if it has twenty dangling threads whipping around at the same time" feel to their reads. Just not enough readers to be profitable to a publisher unless the author already is a household name.

Varian is an excellent writer--as you know I believe--but I've mentioned the power of trimming and "getting to it" to her in everything I've read of hers--especially if she wants to break into the print world, which I think she should be able to do.

 

[sr71plt]

200,000 is a good size book for me. That's the size book I would consider satisfying.

I guess there might be a correlation to the American people increasingly putting on weight and wanting their books flabby as well.

 

[Shwenn]

I guess there might be a correlation to the American people increasingly putting on weight and wanting their books flabby as well.

I have never witnessed any correlation between the length of a piece and the liklihood of it being bloated prose. Not in contemporary fiction.

If any correlation exists, it is inverse.

In my experience, the longer the book is, the tighter the writing will be.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I have never witnessed any correlation between the length of a piece and the liklihood of it being bloated prose. Not in contemporary fiction.

If any correlation exists, it is inverse.

In my experience, the longer the book is, the tighter the writing will be.

Ugh, not my experience. I adore Stephen King, have since I was a kid, because the man can tell a GREAT story... but come ON, Steve, get to it, wouldja!? The longer his work gets the less tolerant I am. The last two books have taken me half - HALF - their length for me to finally say, "Okay, NOW I'm hooked."

With a new author? Never would have happened.

I barely made it through the Stephanie Meyer Twilight tomes - they were double the length they should have been, as far as I was concerned. I only trudged through because the kids loved them and I wanted to find out what the deal was. Can't get those hours of my life back, now.

 

[gauchecritic]

Some people can push words out at fast as they shit. Some people's writing smells like that too.

Having never read your stuff CW I just had a quick squint and you're neither of the two examples.

200,000 words on the same story would probably take me about ten years so I say exult away.

 

[Shwenn]

Ugh, not my experience. I adore Stephen King, have since I was a kid, because the man can tell a GREAT story... but come ON, Steve, get to it, wouldja!? The longer his work gets the less tolerant I am. The last two books have taken me half - HALF - their length for me to finally say, "Okay, NOW I'm hooked."

With a new author? Never would have happened.

I barely made it through the Stephanie Meyer Twilight tomes - they were double the length they should have been, as far as I was concerned. I only trudged through because the kids loved them and I wanted to find out what the deal was. Can't get those hours of my life back, now.

I need to read more trash.

I really, reallly do.

I'm writing trash now so that's what I need to read. I was writing literature. Got published in lit rags at a couple of big ten univertisities. It gets you respect but not much else.

Now I'm writing porn.

I get the feeling I'd have a lot more confidence in my writing if I started reading the sort of crap that gets published and makes real money.

Not that I think my stuff would ever make real money. It's far too niche. But I would be able to feel superior or something. I'm reading William T. Vollman right now and it just makes me feel worthless as a writer. I'll never be as good as he is.

 

[gauchecritic]

Can't get those hours of my life back, now.

I just love that phrase, it's like saying if you were doing something that you did like then you would be able to get the time back. Why would you want to?

 

[sr71plt]

Ugh, not my experience. I adore Stephen King, have since I was a kid, because the man can tell a GREAT story... but come ON, Steve, get to it, wouldja!? The longer his work gets the less tolerant I am. The last two books have taken me half - HALF - their length for me to finally say, "Okay, NOW I'm hooked."

With a new author? Never would have happened.

I barely made it through the Stephanie Meyer Twilight tomes - they were double the length they should have been, as far as I was concerned. I only trudged through because the kids loved them and I wanted to find out what the deal was. Can't get those hours of my life back, now.

Ah, yes, and why do you stick with Stephen King? Because he's Stephen King and was probably a household name before you started reading him. Already with a reputation of delivering in the end. So you stick around for the end. He's a pretty good example. People tend to think he busted right onto the scene with his first scribblings. Know how many books he had in the drawer, unpublished, at that point? Seven. (And he had a leg up; he had a creative writing degree and his wife was in book publishing.)

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Ah, yes, and why do you stick with Stephen King? Because he's Stephen King and was probably a household name before you started reading him. Already with a reputation of delivering in the end. So you stick around for the end. He's a pretty good example. People tend to think he busted right onto the scene with his first scribblings. Know how many books he had in the drawer, unpublished, at that point? Seven. (And he had a leg up; he had a creative writing degree and his wife was in book publishing.)

All true. I was eleven when I read Carrie. That was 1981. And he published first... when? 1977? So he was a household name by then for sure. Of course, I was eleven, what did I know? (And man, did a lot of that book not make any sense until later! ) But I love being creeped out, and he does it for me, what can I say?

He was ready to give up by then wasn't he? Ready to go get a "real job?" Had thrown Carrie in the trash? Isn't the story that she picked it out and submitted it or something? Probably urban legend.

I don't begrudge him his success.

Someone like Stephanie Meyers though? What are these people who are reading her THINKING?????

 

[Shwenn]

But I love being creeped out, and he does it for me, what can I say?

Short stories. His short stories are phenomenal.

I love horror but I only read short story horror. I don't think the genre works well in novel form.

Even film, short horror films are better....have you seen Small Guage Trauma?

Exceptional!

I think it's because your own imagination is called into play more if it's short. Horror is only good if it gets your imagination running wild.

 

[tolyk]

Short stories. His short stories are phenomenal.

I love horror but I only read short story horror. I don't think the genre works well in novel form.

Even film, short horror films are better....have you seen Small Guage Trauma?

Exceptional!

I think it's because your own imagination is called into play more if it's short. Horror is only good if it gets your imagination running wild.

I agree that shorter horror works are better, but for the reason that they get more formulaic after a certain point. And sequels? Especially movie ones, they're just moronic. Saw (for some people) was unpredictable. Saw 2 and 3..... uh.. different characters, same freaking movies!

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Small Guage Trauma?

Just added it to my Netflix queue!

 

[Xelebes]

200,000 is a good size book for me. That's the size book I would consider satisfying.

Most are about half that and I consider that short.

You guys are talking about this like it's really, really long. I would say 400,000 is really long. I'm thinking Cryptonomicon, something like that. That is what I would consider an investment. I have to know you are good before I'll take that plunge.

Yeah, this element (number of pages and words) is a bigger draw for me. I'm not a fan of shorter novels because... well,when I read a book, I want to spend some time with that book. If I am going to fork 30-50 bucks for a book, I want it to have some weight behind it.

 

[Iamcanadian28]

Jst a general question that I thought someone with print publishing experience might be able t answer. Does anyone know the approximate word count of an averae page fo a hard cover or paperback novel?

We're discussing a 200,000 word story, about how many pages would that equate to?