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[HyunnaPark]

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[Bamagan]

I'm working on something that's a little experimental for me, and as I was writing the topic of abortion came up. I'm looking for insights from authors who have been posting stories for a while to see whether anyone has touched on a Hot Button Issue, even in passing. Should I think about abandoning this particular idea so that the reactions to the story aren't based mostly on this one sentence (in bold & italics)?

Here's the passage, so that you can see what I'm talking about:



This is a first draft so it's all subject to being rewritten. The goal of the scene is to establish that the two characters have a long, very intimate, very close relationship that has experienced many things that probably haven't left the confines of the relationship. I wasn't expecting it to go where it did, but it felt right given the darker, more pessimistic tone that this piece needs.

I wouldn't recommend it in a short piece, as it's almost certain to be a mood-killer for any erotic elements, regardless of one's stance on its morality or legality.
I have touched on other forms of reproductive issues in longer stories, where it feels like there's more room for emotional highs and lows and tangents and the like.

 

[filthytrancendence]

I wasn't expecting it to go where it did, but it felt right given the darker, more pessimistic tone that this piece needs.

My advice would be trust yourself on that.

The only caution I'd offer is it is easy to fall into the trap of lopsided characterization when you drop a bomb like this. And also, you don't want to just drop it and then never bring it up again. Does it matter to the story? Is the fact she is sterile relevant? Or is it just a bit of color for their history? If it's the latter, maybe consider using something a little less intense as shorthand for this. If it is relevant, don't hesitate.

 

[NotWise]

Let the story take you where you want to go.

That said, highly polarizing, non-erotic elements will alienate some of your readers. Keep that in mind.

 

[NotWise]

These are the questions I was asking myself too. It's not relevant to the story and (unless this draft goes somewhere I'm not expecting), it doesn't come up again. The way I was writing my MC was someone who was heavily traumatized (she drinks a lot, she self-sabotages, she fears attachment and the future in general), and as I was writing the scene this is how it came out and I was like "oh, THAT's why she sets herself on fire every time she makes a small amount of progress in her life." So, to me, it fit the criteria of "this sentence must either move the plot forward or reveal character."

I'm starting to contemplate stripping out all the sex and rewriting this as pure literary fiction.

If you do that, you can still post it here to the Nonerotic category. There aren't a lot of views there. On the upside, some authors have gotten interest from mainstream publishers by posting stories to Nonerotic.

 

[MrPixel]

Because you got me pregnant when we were teenagers, and complications with the abortion left me damaged and unable to get pregnant again.

I wrote about this very issue as a major subplot in the last 11 chapters starting with Off Campus 04 Pt. 03. That is, if you're up for that much reading. There is a follow-up yet to be published where the affected FMC finds out the scarring from the procedure left her unable to bear children, and there is extended discussion of in vitro and a surrogate to carry the pregnancy. I'll get around to publishing that continuation, but it won't be any time soon.

Never received any pushback on it, possibly because I treated it as the crisis it was and the overriding theme was love and deep concern from the supporting characters.

Similar with a lighter touch in Barstow - The Neighbor Lady, pregnancy terminated after an orgy of multiple partners where it would have been impossible to determine who the father was without dragging about a dozen men through the DNA testing mud. No feedback on that story, either.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Sounds like you’re writing with some depth, not just a stroker. That kind of tension can be good for a couple to work through. Sure, it may be a hot button for some people, but it’s also very real.

 

[old_prof]

These are the questions I was asking myself too. It's not relevant to the story and (unless this draft goes somewhere I'm not expecting), it doesn't come up again. The way I was writing my MC was someone who was heavily traumatized (she drinks a lot, she self-sabotages, she fears attachment and the future in general), and as I was writing the scene this is how it came out and I was like "oh, THAT's why she sets herself on fire every time she makes a small amount of progress in her life." So, to me, it fit the criteria of "this sentence must either move the plot forward or reveal character."

I'm starting to contemplate stripping out all the sex and rewriting this as pure literary fiction.

I really wish we (society, not literotica) allowed "real" literature to contain explicit sex. Not that I am capable of writing great literature, but I want to write real stories about real people. And sex is such a big part of what make us what we are. Mainstream literature either completely ignore that aspect of our existence or shoots off metaphorical fireworks while the MC close the bedroom door. Either approach is absurd to me.

I know most of the stories here are strokers and that is what most of the readers want, but it's not what I want to write all the time. Or most the time now.

It sounds like it could be a really strong piece if you stick to your feelings. I would love to tell you to write the story you want and put it NE (or on another platform, if you do please let me know where). But that is a decision you need to make based on what you need out of your writing. No one else can make that decision for you. But if you put it somewhere, I am interested in reading it. I assume I am not the only one.

 

[WittyUserName]

I'm working on something that's a little experimental for me, and as I was writing the topic of abortion came up. I'm looking for insights from authors who have been posting stories for a while to see whether anyone has touched on a Hot Button Issue, even in passing. Should I think about abandoning this particular idea so that the reactions to the story aren't based mostly on this one sentence (in bold & italics)?

Here's the passage, so that you can see what I'm talking about:



This is a first draft so it's all subject to being rewritten. The goal of the scene is to establish that the two characters have a long, very intimate, very close relationship that has experienced many things that probably haven't left the confines of the relationship. I wasn't expecting it to go where it did, but it felt right given the darker, more pessimistic tone that this piece needs.

I definitely don't think it's a terrible idea at all. Remember; you can't please everyone. Trying to will just make you rip all your hair out until you're as bald as I am. It's your story, if that needs to be in there, it should be. And only you can answer that. Feedback can be very useful to help you improve, but it will always be your choice. I loved Metatron in the show Supernatural. "When you write a story you become a god of your own universe." Not an exact quote, but you get the point.

People will get mad no matter what. I had a character get pregnant in one of my stories. Her friends said she did not have to keep the baby and they'd go with her to get 'the procedure' done. Someone in the comments got mad that I didn't mention abortion was an option. I did. I just didn't use the word. So, no matter what you do you'll upset someone.

You COULD change it I guess to still make things fit. It could have been a miscarriage that went very wrong, resulting in the infertility issues. Same negative emotions, same issues now, but avoids the abortion issue. Up to you. It's your story, and I say do what feels right.

 

[WittyUserName]

I really wish we (society, not literotica) allowed "real" literature to contain explicit sex. Not that I am capable of writing great literature, but I want to write real stories about real people. And sex is such a big part of what make us what we are. Mainstream literature either completely ignore that aspect of our existence or shoots off metaphorical fireworks while the MC close the bedroom door. Either approach is absurd to me.

I know most of the stories here are strokers and that is what most of the readers want, but it's not what I want to write all the time. Or most the time now.

It sounds like it could be a really strong piece if you stick to your feelings. I would love to tell you to write the story you want and put it NE (or on another platform, if you do please let me know where). But that is a decision you need to make based on what you need out of your writing. No one else can make that decision for you. But if you put it somewhere, I am interested in reading it. I assume I am not the only one.

I agree completely. George R. R. Martin puts explicit sex in his stories. I loved his point that he could write in detail about an ax going through someone's skull and everyone was happy. That same detail over a perfectly natural act? People flipped the fuck out.

 

[WittyUserName]

Obviously not the topic of the thread, so I hope the OP doesn't hate me for derailing it, lol, But I found this, too. I came here with an armful of things that I wanted to say about a couple of topics, but what I found was that the characters I created to embody and explore those topics were FAR more interesting to me than the sex scenes.


I'm not sure why I didn't think of that! It has a similar effect (shows the depth of the relationship between the two characters, they've stood by each other through some really dark times) but sidesteps the main issue with the idea. It's not meant to be a story about abortion or even pregnancy, it was just an event that happened in the past and both characters still feel the repercussions of many years later.

Your screen name is appropriate

I hope it helps! I figured most of the emotional issues would be the same, either way she'll be devastated by losing her one chance to have a child.

Thanks!

 

[NotWise]

Obviously not the topic of the thread, so I hope the OP doesn't hate me for derailing it, lol, But I found this, too. I came here with an armful of things that I wanted to say about a couple of topics, but what I found was that the characters I created to embody and explore those topics were FAR more interesting to me than the sex scenes.

I think there's room here to write what you want. Make it literary if you want. Explore sensitive topics if you want. @MelissaBaby has done those things. But when you do that, be realistic about the reactions you expect.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Never be afraid to dig into your characters psyche. Each of of us is the sum total of our experiences and upbringing and our characters should be no different. it's what makes the stand out to us when we read them. We empathize and care more. We get emotionally involved. Don't deprive the readers or yourself of that, by being afraid to make the story more 'real'. Because 'real' people are damaged, imperfect and just trying to get through life one day at a time.

 

[ElectricBlue]

These are the questions I was asking myself too. It's not relevant to the story and (unless this draft goes somewhere I'm not expecting), it doesn't come up again.

There's your answer.

If you're going to tackle a theme such as abortion, I'd be doing a lot, and I mean a lot, of homework, including talking to women who have had one.

The second bolded comment reinforces that first answer, because I imagine it would always be present in the mind of a woman who has made that choice, for whatever reason. It seems to me that you run the risk of gratuitously trivialising an event that surely must be significant to someone's life. It's hardly a thing that comes up in passing but the story moves on as if it was just a bump in the road.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I wrote my story "Neverland, Don't Go Back There!" with the FMC having been a wild youth finally settled down with a banker who knew nothing about her wild times. She was sterile after STDs and three abortions, which was the basis of her not having kids of her own and bonding with the nerdy banker's kids so well when she was in her late 20's.

I used the line "It took four years in college for me, with several trips to the free clinic and a second and third abortion, before I finally woke up to where my alcoholic life was headed." Note that it was the second and third abortions in college, because later she reveals she had her first abortion as an 18-YO in high school.

The story is about her adoring husband taking her back to her hometown for her 30th high school reunion, and she's worried about his reaction if he finds out about her sordid past.

I doubt the story took any hit over the abortion issue. I post to Loving Wives, and there's so much else for them to hate in my stories. It's rated 3.36/221 with 17.5k views. (Just under my total average rating.)

EDIT: Basically, know your audience, and it depends on whether that audience would find it offensive or touching on sensitive nerves. In LW, if you're writing about swingers and sharing, abortions are the least of your problems!

 

[Kumquatqueen]

From your first post, I was going to say it sounds like something that needs to be a huge part of your character; it wouldn't be convincing as a throwaway line - it would come across like all those films which go "oh btw the FMC was raped at some point - that's characterisation for you".

But then you go on to explain that the FMC has issues and an ongoing history of behaviours likely produced by trauma, so it's in proportion as part of the character's history.

Though personally I'd prefer the infertility-after-miscarriage version for two reasons - one is that a relationship with someone when young is unlikely to survive a decision for abortion that then went wrong, even if it was her or a mutual decision to have the abortion. Secondly, because stories featuring abortion leading to complications exist way out of proportion to the actual risk of abortion, and too often are used to add to a false impression of the risks, as opposed to actually being way safer than going through with pregnancy. Obviously if they were together somewhere without access to legal abortion at the time, that would be different and could be called out in the story.

I've only mentioned abortion in one Lit story - MMC in relationship with a man has a religious homophobic brother-in-law, who is struggling with the fact that he'd really like both MMC and partner if they weren't in a relationship together. Sister mentions that the BIL's sister had 'had to travel' once, and it's explained that means she went to Liverpool for an abortion. Sister knows her husband got over that and is on good terms with his sis again, so thinks given time, he'll get used to the pair of them in the same way.

No comments whatsoever. Nor on a story chapter talking about infertility, come to think of it.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

From your first post, I was going to say it sounds like something that needs to be a huge part of your character; it wouldn't be convincing as a throwaway line - it would come across like all those films which go "oh btw the FMC was raped at some point - that's characterisation for you".

But then you go on to explain that the FMC has issues and an ongoing history of behaviours likely produced by trauma, so it's in proportion as part of the character's history.

Though personally I'd prefer the infertility-after-miscarriage version for two reasons - one is that a relationship with someone when young is unlikely to survive a decision for abortion that then went wrong, even if it was her or a mutual decision to have the abortion. Secondly, because stories featuring abortion leading to complications exist way out of proportion to the actual risk of abortion, and too often are used to add to a false impression of the risks, as opposed to actually being way safer than going through with pregnancy. Obviously if they were together somewhere without access to legal abortion at the time, that would be different and could be called out in the story.

I've only mentioned abortion in one Lit story - MMC in relationship with a man has a religious homophobic brother-in-law, who is struggling with the fact that he'd really like both MMC and partner if they weren't in a relationship together. Sister mentions that the BIL's sister had 'had to travel' once, and it's explained that means she went to Liverpool for an abortion. Sister knows her husband got over that and is on good terms with his sis again, so thinks given time, he'll get used to the pair of them in the same way.

No comments whatsoever. Nor on a story chapter talking about infertility, come to think of it.

I should add that this kind of thing can be a huge ongoing issue for the man involved, too. Especially if their belief system comes into play and/or if (as you noted) there is a failed serious relation as a result.

 

[Bamagan]

Secondly, because stories featuring abortion leading to complications exist way out of proportion to the actual risk of abortion, and too often are used to add to a false impression of the risks, as opposed to actually being way safer than going through with pregnancy.

I am in complete agreement with you, although I will say that the dramatic impact of a low-risk, desired medical procedure that goes completely smoothly and successfully is probably pretty low. From a storytelling perspective, there's perhaps a perverse incentive to focus on the rare complications, even if there's no moralistic ulterior motive.

 

[MrHereWriting]

Because you got me pregnant when we were teenagers, and complications with the abortion left me damaged and unable to get pregnant again.

She blames him for getting her pregnant.
Does he blame her for 'getting' pregnant?
If these two characters are supposed to have a happily-ever-after, then this is a conflict that needs resolving, which could make an interesting story.

Unless you put this in Loving Wives, I doubt you need to be worried about that line. If this line is the bases for all the conflict in your story, then you better not leave it unresolved because that's bad writing.

These are the questions I was asking myself too. It's not relevant to the story and (unless this draft goes somewhere I'm not expecting), it doesn't come up again. The way I was writing my MC was someone who was heavily traumatized (she drinks a lot, she self-sabotages, she fears attachment and the future in general), and as I was writing the scene this is how it came out and I was like "oh, THAT's why she sets herself on fire every time she makes a small amount of progress in her life." So, to me, it fit the criteria of "this sentence must either move the plot forward or reveal character."

I'm starting to contemplate stripping out all the sex and rewriting this as pure literary fiction.

That's sounds relevant to me. It's the entire basis for her self-destruction. They can't improve who they are without addressing this problem.
Or maybe they don't improve and instead of an arc you have a flat line.

 

[TheRedChamber]

This is the sort of thing that really needs a beta reader (or three) to look at it in its full context. It could add depth or it could be unnecessary and it's impossible to judge from just the snippet.

I will say that its usually best to give.your readers your 'bravest' version and then dial it back if necessary. If you leave it out your readers are unlikely to suggest more trauma.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

From the context you've provided I'd think it was fine. With the caveat that others have expressed it shouldn't be a throw away line, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

This is easy.

If you care more about staying true to your story and your characters than the reaction/score, then leave it in. It's a good line that adds depth and realism to your characters and plot.

If you care more about the reaction/score, then take it the fuck out, like yesterday.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I am in complete agreement with you, although I will say that the dramatic impact of a low-risk, desired medical procedure that goes completely smoothly and successfully is probably pretty low. From a storytelling perspective, there's perhaps a perverse incentive to focus on the rare complications, even if there's no moralistic ulterior motive.

Absolutely - the same applies to pregnancy and especially childbirth in stories, birth always being more dramatic than 99% of reality. Not to mention fake urgency. If you actually call the hospital to say waters have broken in the street, they actually say "OK, we'll be seeing you in the next few days then. Do come in for a checkup if nothing happens or you have any of these symptoms." Not "OMG an ambulance is coming!!!"

But birth doesn't have that large number of people trying to moralise about it in the same way.

 

[MrPixel]

Absolutely - the same applies to pregnancy and especially childbirth in stories, birth always being more dramatic than 99% of reality. Not to mention fake urgency. If you actually call the hospital to say waters have broken in the street, they actually say "OK, we'll be seeing you in the next few days then. Do come in for a checkup if nothing happens or you have any of these symptoms." Not "OMG an ambulance is coming!!!"

That's useful to know. Thanks. I'm still writing a piece with a childbirth scene, and now's the time to get it factually straight. I did in fact write it where the troops were summoned to rush her to the ER. More research required, evidently.

I have had but one direct experience with a birth event, a hippie-ish woman who wanted her close friends bedside. In fact, she was a midwife. Her entering labor for the at-home birth did come shortly after her water broke, but she knew from her job the labor was taking too long and instructed us to cart her off to a hospital.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

That's useful to know. Thanks. I'm still writing a piece with a childbirth scene, and now's the time to get it factually straight. I did in fact write it where the troops were summoned to rush her to the ER. More research required, evidently.

I have had but one direct experience with a birth event, a hippie-ish woman who wanted her close friends bedside. In fact, she was a midwife. Her entering labor for the at-home birth did come shortly after her water broke, but she knew from her job the labor was taking too long and instructed us to cart her off to a hospital.

Birth procedures can be very different by country. I thought a lot of the drama you saw on US TV birth scenes was fictional, until reading books on giving birth and realising all the American ones needed to be totally ignored - apparently birthers in the US really do get made to put on hospital gowns, get put on a drip son you have to be in a bed, even enemas and shaving are still pressed upon women, very medicalised, as opposed to the typical "There's some cushions for kneeling over, there should be a pool available in an hour or so if you want, enjoy huffing G&A, see you in an hour" NHS approach!