15·Nov·2006 · "Weave" · champagne1982

[WickedEve]

Weave
by champagne1982

There are three aspects of Her face
Crone, matron and maiden fair
Her design in each glimmering string
Woven through the tapestry of time.

Her design in each glimmering string
Warp, weft, and color bright
Enriching the souls within her care
The dye in the wool sublime.

Enriching the souls within her care
Life, lust and loving true
Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Humanity a moment's history.

Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Faith, hope and giving heart
Truths caught up in the weaving of it
Wisdom no longer a knotted mystery.

Truths caught up in the weaving of it
Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Enriching the souls within her care
Her design in each glimmering string.

Enriching the souls within her care.
Sphere, circle and golden ring.
There are three aspects of Her face
Each one fates' fortunes bring.​

We haven't discussed any form poetry for a while. I think it's time we actually took a look at our own forum's adopted form, Bob.

This is my example of an interlocked Bob: Weave .

Do the adaptations of the form in S. 4 work and stay true to the spirit of Bob?

I think the form works really well with the subject, thoughts?

Wanna try writing Bob poems?

Thanks everyone.

 

[tungtied2u]

Weave
by champagne1982

There are three aspects of Her face
Crone, matron and maiden fair
Her design in each glimmering string
Woven through the tapestry of time.

Her design in each glimmering string
Warp, weft, and color bright
Enriching the souls within her care
The dye in the wool sublime.

Enriching the souls within her care
Life, lust and loving true
Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Humanity a moment's history.

Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Faith, hope and giving heart
Truths caught up in the weaving of it
Wisdom no longer a knotted mystery.

Truths caught up in the weaving of it
Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Enriching the souls within her care
Her design in each glimmering string.

Enriching the souls within her care.
Sphere, circle and golden ring.
There are three aspects of Her face
Each one fates' fortunes bring.​

We haven't discussed any form poetry for a while. I think it's time we actually took a look at our own forum's adopted form, Bob.

This is my example of an interlocked Bob: Weave .

Do the adaptations of the form in S. 4 work and stay true to the spirit of Bob?

I think the form works really well with the subject, thoughts?

Wanna try writing Bob poems?

Thanks everyone.

You might called this particular weave interlochen...

 

[tungtied2u]

wonderful poem Carrie...I need to read it more before making further comment,
but my inital response is it works great!

 

[RhymeFairy]

Weave
by champagne1982

There are three aspects of Her face
Crone, matron and maiden fair
Her design in each glimmering string
Woven through the tapestry of time.

Her design in each glimmering string
Warp, weft, and color bright
Enriching the souls within her care
The dye in the wool sublime.

Enriching the souls within her care
Life, lust and loving true
Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Humanity a moment's history.

Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Faith, hope and giving heart
Truths caught up in the weaving of it
Wisdom no longer a knotted mystery.

Truths caught up in the weaving of it
Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Enriching the souls within her care
Her design in each glimmering string.

Enriching the souls within her care.
Sphere, circle and golden ring.
There are three aspects of Her face
Each one fates' fortunes bring.​

We haven't discussed any form poetry for a while. I think it's time we actually took a look at our own forum's adopted form, Bob.

This is my example of an interlocked Bob: Weave .

Do the adaptations of the form in S. 4 work and stay true to the spirit of Bob?

I think the form works really well with the subject, thoughts?

Wanna try writing Bob poems?

Thanks everyone.

I love this Carrie.

I thought I had seen this form somewhere before, looks familiar.

You pulled this weave together,
hooked it just right, nice
smooth 'n, tight~~!!



I'm not really good with form. I may try this on my own and see what I come up with, no promises.

 

[Cub4ucme]

Riding Her Luxary

I like it fast sometimes
when I'm out there on the edge
hanging in some supsended state
feeling the hunger hummin' inside
my brain working like a pinball machine
looking for the soft cushion to ring the bell

She likes its rough when the wolf is howling
I show up when romantic is three days away
when my testasterone rules my river veins
I never leave satisfied, she's too strange to hug
it's her hip dance that draws me back
like the last red apple hangin' in September
I pluck it and suck the sweet out
until her October voice chills my mood
and I return to solid state searching for
the woman with forever smiling in her eyes

She's a cadillac they tell me
smooth with a fine leather seat
rims that keep on cumming
wheels that spit out flames
her fenders climb my hills
as I hold onto to her headlights

Then,

I ride her hard and fast
down the streets of lust
until her tank is empty
until I hear her engine moan
until my rod is blown

she shines in the dark night
turle waxed, lights out
I kiss her hood and leave

ajs

 

[champagne1982]

I like it fast sometimes
when I'm out there on the edge
hanging in some supsended state
feeling the hunger hummin' inside
my brain working like a pinball machine
looking for the soft cushion to ring the bell

She likes its rough when the wolf is howling
I show up when romantic is three days away
when my testasterone rules my river veins
I never leave satisfied, she's too strange to hug
it's her hip dance that draws me back
like the last red apple hangin' in September
I pluck it and suck the sweet out
until her October voice chills my mood
and I return to solid state searching for
the woman with forever smiling in her eyes

She's a cadillac they tell me
smooth with a fine leather seat
rims that keep on cumming
wheels that spit out flames
her fenders climb my hills
as I hold onto to her headlights

Then,

I ride her hard and fast
down the streets of lust
until her tank is empty
until I hear her engine moan
until my rod is blown

she shines in the dark night
turle waxed, lights out
I kiss her hood and leave

ajs

But why isn't this in bob form? Didn't you check out the original birth of a bob thread? I don't mind your using this forum to showcase your own poetry, but I'd appreciate more if you used the space to critique mine, as is the intent of the PDC.

Please read the sticky thread for guidelines on how to use the Poetry Discussion Circle forum.

 

[champagne1982]

I love this Carrie.

I thought I had seen this form somewhere before, looks familiar.

You pulled this weave together,
hooked it just right, nice
smooth 'n, tight~~!!



I'm not really good with form. I may try this on my own and see what I come up with, no promises.

Thanks RF. You most always have genuinely good things to say about people and their poetry. I appreciate it.

 

[Liar]

Do the adaptations of the form in S. 4 work and stay true to the spirit of Bob?

What do you mean by "S. 4"? The fourth stanza? I can find nothing about it that differs it from the other stanzas.

If anything it's the second line in the fifth stanza, "Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread", that breaks the pattern. All the other second lines have a very specific trio of objects listed.

But, as such, it's a Bob true to the form. And a lovely poem at that.

I do think the form itself works best with slightly shorter and rhythmically even lines - iambic trimeter or something like that - easier to "sense " the weaved lines then. But that could be an aquired taste, and ceratinly not a Bob rule.

 

[champagne1982]

What do you mean by "S. 4"? The fourth stanza? I can find nothing about it that differs it from the other stanzas.

If anything it's the second line in the fifth stanza, "Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread", that breaks the pattern. All the other second lines have a very specific trio of objects listed.

But, as such, it's a Bob true to the form. And a lovely poem at that.

I do think the form itself works best with slightly shorter and rhythmically even lines - iambic trimeter or something like that - easier to "sense " the weaved lines then. But that could be an aquired taste, and ceratinly not a Bob rule.

mea culpa... S5 indeed, thanks for that correction.

Iambic trimeter would only be one iamb off of what I have in this poem already and I think, for the sake of a few extraneous beats, I'd rather stay inside the meter I've used than to pare down my lines, running the risk of yoda-speak. I think rhyme is more integral to bobs than line length anyway.

 

[Tzara]

OK, I want to make sure I understand this Bob thing before I comment. There seems to me to be to be these rules:

• The poem is composed in four line stanzas.
• The third line of a stanza is repeated as the first line of the next stanza.
• The last line of an odd numbered stanza rhymes with the last line of the subsequent even numbered stanza. There are no other rhyme requirements.
• The poem has an even number of stanzas.
• There are no metrical requirements.

Does that sound right?

 

[champagne1982]

OK, I want to make sure I understand this Bob thing before I comment. There seems to me to be to be these rules:

• The poem is composed in four line stanzas.
• The third line of a stanza is repeated as the first line of the next stanza.
• The last line of an odd numbered stanza rhymes with the last line of the subsequent even numbered stanza. There are no other rhyme requirements.
• The poem has an even number of stanzas.
• There are no metrical requirements.

Does that sound right?

I don't think the number of stanza's matter as long as that L3 gets pulled into the next. The first bob I'd tried didn't rhyme and it was pointed out to me, this is why I would insist on following the rules ... :eyebrow quirk:

 

[Liar]

mea culpa... S5 indeed, thanks for that correction.

Iambic trimeter would only be one iamb off of what I have in this poem already and I think, for the sake of a few extraneous beats, I'd rather stay inside the meter I've used than to pare down my lines, running the risk of yoda-speak. I think rhyme is more integral to bobs than line length anyway.

No trying to nitpick here, (ok, maybe but only since you brought it up, I think?).. but are you saying that you have iambic rhythm in this poem? If so, I'm afraid i can't quite feel it.

The creator of the Bob only wrote one himself that I know of. And in that there's the third line handover, the paired four line stanzas that rhyme and...pretty accurate dactylic dimeter it seems. But I think it's fair to say that we're free to adapt it. Someone (was it you back then?) introdiced the interlocked variety, and I've seen some different other mutations.

 

[champagne1982]

No trying to nitpick here, (ok, maybe but only since you brought it up, I think?).. but are you saying that you have iambic rhythm in this poem? If so, I'm afraid i can't quite feel it.

The creator of the Bob only wrote one himself that I know of. And in that there's the third line handover, the paired four line stanzas that rhyme and...pretty accurate dactylic dimeter it seems. But I think it's fair to say that we're free to adapt it. Someone (was it you back then?) introdiced the interlocked variety, and I've seen some different other mutations.

I have an 8/9 count line and I don't deal well with rhythmic terminology.. I know there is one, and I know it's called something if not an iambic pair then I have no idea what it is when two beats come together with an accent on one.

I think they're a fun form to write and TFCG who brought the bob into being wrote his one and ducked. There was the Same Title Challenge "Weave" that resulted in a number of bob poems. I think Tristesse wrote a lovely one, definitely. And yep, the version of interlocked bobs is something I stumbled on but it's not much to claim credit for.

I sincerely hope that all poetry continues to grow and change, much like we poets who create it.

 

[twelveoone]

If anything it's the second line in the fifth stanza, "Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread", that breaks the pattern. All the other second lines have a very specific trio of objects listed.

I assume you like this - the unwinding breaking the pattern, in the nest to last stanza. I do.

Why the cap on Her?

 

[champagne1982]

I assume you like this - the unwinding breaking the pattern, in the nest to last stanza. I do.

Why the cap on Her?

You're too kind. Often I'm credited for preconceiving a clever movement in my poems. I assure you that as I wrote it, the unwinding line fell in that particular place in the sequence, solely by pure dumb luck or, if you will it was ordained by the fates. Who knows what moves us to write sometimes?

As to the cap on Her, I am specifically relating back to Robert Graves' idea of the triple goddess. So many religions have goddesses carrying the 3 aspects that the notion of them all being united as one being appeals to me.

The weaver and the fates and the circles are elements that needed to be featured inside any poem about a tri-deity as far as I'm concerned.

As an aside, did you know that Mary, the mother of Christ, was one of 12 maidens chosen to weave the curtains at the entrance to the holy of holies in Jerusalem? Some also say that the swaddling blankets of a babe at that time would be incorporated into their burial shroud, I even think it may be mentioned in the bible.

At any rate, "Her" denotes deity in that opening verse.

 

[Cub4ucme]

Weave
by champagne1982

There are three aspects of Her face
Crone, matron and maiden fair
Her design in each glimmering string
Woven through the tapestry of time.

Her design in each glimmering string
Warp, weft, and color bright
Enriching the souls within her care
The dye in the wool sublime.

Enriching the souls within her care
Life, lust and loving true
Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Humanity a moment's history.

Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Faith, hope and giving heart
Truths caught up in the weaving of it
Wisdom no longer a knotted mystery.

Truths caught up in the weaving of it
Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread
Enriching the souls within her care
Her design in each glimmering string.

Enriching the souls within her care.
Sphere, circle and golden ring.
There are three aspects of Her face
Each one fates' fortunes bring.​

We haven't discussed any form poetry for a while. I think it's time we actually took a look at our own forum's adopted form, Bob.

This is my example of an interlocked Bob: Weave .

Do the adaptations of the form in S. 4 work and stay true to the spirit of Bob?

I think the form works really well with the subject, thoughts?

Wanna try writing Bob poems?

Thanks everyone.

About the only thing worthwhile in this poem is
the rythum. It's flat out boring. Nothing there
to take away. Nothing to make one think
about anything. It's dead on the page.

I think the author was more concerned with
the format than the poem. I'm not much
on maidens, and faireys, and the like, anyway
but, if I was, it wouldn't change a thing.

I don't get why poets take the time to write
something like this without giving thought
to the artistic integrity of it.

Once again, there's nothing here
that moves me in any way.

Just my take, of coure, it's subjective.

best,
andy

 

[Tzara]

I took a while to read this, champie, because form is not my favored style nor something I know much about. There are some nice things about this poem, though. What follows is, of course, my own opinion. Just be forewarned that I do not favor form poetry.

The basic form in this poem is good. It conforms to what I understand about the Bob format. Then there is that funky fifth stanza. I quite like that. Nice variation to have it back up the "pull" lines from the previous three stanzas.

But that also highlights the problem for me of form verse. The requirements of the form take over. The interest ends up being the unwinding of the form, which I think is well done here. Take the second lines, which feature a triadic focus. These work well. But the problem for me is that I spend more time thinking about "do all the form requirements line up?" rather than I do about "does the poem make sense?" That's me, of course, not you and not your poem. But how I react to it.

Also, the theme is fairly abstract, which makes the distancing of the poem more prominent. But that also helps, oddly, because that fits the formality of the format.

Overall, I would say this is quite nice. The formal unwinding works well, I think. And, as I said, that fifth S and its variation is very clever.

The one criticism I would offer is that I would agree with Liar that I would prefer a stronger or more even metrical component. That is not a requirement of the Bob, though, so it is irrelevant to the form.

Nice poem, Ms. C.

 

[champagne1982]

Hi Tz, (pronounced teez). Thanks for your thoughts about the rhythm. At first I'd thought about the steady clack of a loom and shuttle but then I considered further the twists of yarn, knot inclusions and numerous changes of bobbins that a steady rhythm seemed a little too expected.

You and the others, who observe that I may have got involved with the form over content, have a point. This is a purpose written poem. I was responding to the Weave Same Title Challenge so the theme decision wasn't really mine, although I did have a bit to do with the formula choice.

I think sometimes you get lucky with your answers to these challenges and sometimes it doesn't work out for everyone. I can't resist them, so I try to participate in as many as I can.

 

[lobomao]

weft bereft.

Allo!

very nice Champ

I very much of the same mind as Tzara - while I love to personally make my own "forms" and structures for a specific piece; I often find trying to write a "style" of poem sometimes has an air of insincerity to it... your point of wanting the sound of the loom clacking is awesome; that would be super cool... I actually would recommend troque over iambic.... or a strong anapest to give that sense... Iambic is way over used, I think, so when we read iambic I think most people read it as "neo classic atmosphere" and disengage... or I could be on crack.

But you'd probably have to seriously tweak it to make the sound more pronounced...

Because of the form I really like S5L2 - I love the refrain "da, da, and dadity da" set up so nicely in S1-4, only to be broken on S5, and restored on S6... very nice... i especially like that the line that breaks the pattern is "Unwinding a skein of the strongest thread" - which carries an image of both destruction/disruption and the potential for creation

However, I think that there's a coflict with it's use as the bridge between S3 and S4... I sense "skien" would be a more effective line as either one or the other... did someone allready say this? It's kinda early and I'm only processing at half capacity....

I love the poem though; it hits me right in my softy spots; mythology, sneaky smart, theme, and wonderful rich imagry... and I love the way it's very tightly painted... nicely, uh, woven...

It's just so rich; you're pretty high on my clever scale, so I know you have access to tons more of "fate" related ammo... not to go too far afield, but the fates/norns deserve a little respect... Are you really borrowing from Graves there? the three fates as one enitity are pretty well established, albeit blending norse and greek is not so classic...

about meter. You say it's not your strong suit? I think the best way to "grow stronger" is to lift that sword often. I studied acting (big surprise, huh?) and as a result I know my meters. Breathe life in to the meter. Here not only did you want meter to be part of the form, but also part of the imagry the loom clacking... it is vital then that you support it, in order to carry that image.. ya?

you ask about the readers feeling? the form is a little distracting for me... being dyslexic I loose my place and am stuck in a verbal labyrinth.

In the poem the fates seem to me more loving and nuturing; "enriching those in her care" - fate is sometimes caring, but also very cruel...

but I really enjoyed this - a great read!!!

el lobo

 

[champagne1982]

Hi lobomao. What a well-considered critique and you not fully charged even! Thankyou!

You're right about the line sequence. It's been a long time since I worked through this piece so my memory of my rough drafts is sketchy. I know I had about five different choices and all of them sounded even more contrived than they do, in some ways, now. S.5, being the chorus, as it were, had to follow the format, too. I needed the right pull line but I also needed all of those lines to make at least, a modicum of sense.

I may revisit the poem to see how to revamp it to give a grimmer feel to the fates, but yet, maintain the compulsion of Arachne and the nurture of Hecate. There are so many ancient and forgotten goddesses that it is impossible to encompass all of their traits in a six stanza poem. The one commonality of them all, is the progression of time. Maiden, matron and crone is an inescapable sequence and that had to be emphasized.

Thankyou for your thoughts on meter and the theme, you have given me a lot to work through. I appreciate it.

 

[FifthFlower]

Weave
by champagne1982

There are three aspects of Her face
Crone, matron and maiden fair
Her design in each glimmering string
Woven through the tapestry of time.
​

I liked the first stanza of the poem.

There is a classical form called "Bob" or "Bob and Weave". You could find it in Lewis Turco's The Book of Forms as a 5 line poem rhyming ababa with the first line being only 1 or 2 feet long and the last four lines in iambic trimeter. From the example you mentioned, it appears that the current Bob was created arbitrarily rather than from any metrical interest.

Anyway, the content of the poem is interesting. I don't know much about the triple-Goddess and would like to learn more.

Were I writing this, I would not bother repeating the lines, nor worry about the rhyme at the end, but pay more attention to the meter of each line. Basically, I would avoid the "formal" elements of the original "Bob" and make sure the meter was first of all iambic trimeter.

For instance to make the first four lines iambic, they could be rewritten as follows:

There are three aspects of Her face:
Harsh crone, strong matron, maiden fair.
It's Her design that every string
Will weave to form the cloth of time.

Note that there are exactly 8 syllables in each line and the second syllable of each pair could be accented when recited, without the line sounding too strange (at least to me).

What I don't get, though, is what this "tapestry (cloth) of time" means. But the three aspects of the goddess are clear and powerful. It is not quite in your original, but I think you imply that there is no other designer but Her.

And all that is interesting and I'd like to know more about this goddess.

 

[Cub4ucme]

Weave
by champagne1982

There are three aspects of Her face
Crone, matron and maiden fair
Her design in each glimmering string
Woven through the tapestry of time.
​

I liked the first stanza of the poem.

There is a classical form called "Bob" or "Bob and Weave". You could find it in Lewis Turco's The Book of Forms as a 5 line poem rhyming ababa with the first line being only 1 or 2 feet long and the last four lines in iambic trimeter. From the example you mentioned, it appears that the current Bob was created arbitrarily rather than from any metrical interest.

Anyway, the content of the poem is interesting. I don't know much about the triple-Goddess and would like to learn more.

Were I writing this, I would not bother repeating the lines, nor worry about the rhyme at the end, but pay more attention to the meter of each line. Basically, I would avoid the "formal" elements of the original "Bob" and make sure the meter was first of all iambic trimeter.

For instance to make the first four lines iambic, they could be rewritten as follows:

There are three aspects of Her face:
Harsh crone, strong matron, maiden fair.
It's Her design that every string
Will weave to form the cloth of time.

Note that there are exactly 8 syllables in each line and the second syllable of each pair could be accented when recited, without the line sounding too strange (at least to me).

What I don't get, though, is what this "tapestry (cloth) of time" means. But the three aspects of the goddess are clear and powerful. It is not quite in your original, but I think you imply that there is no other designer but Her.

And all that is interesting and I'd like to know more about this goddess.

For the sake of accuracy; calling Bob and Weave a classical form is a bit of a stretch. Turco stuck to writing about formalist poetry for the most part.

He was a spoke in the wheel of the sixties movement that came up with many new forms while uncovering old ones that never really gained enough
momentum for sustainment.

There are countless forms of poetry.
Few of them are considered to be CLASSIC.

best,
andy

 

[FifthFlower]

There are countless forms of poetry.
Few of them are considered to be CLASSIC.

I think you're right. The bob and wheel does not deserve being called a "classic" form as I called it.

I have heard of people making up forms based on mathematics, or some arbitrary repetition of some part of the poem, rather than concern for what structure the form gives to the content and sound in English. I don't consider using such forms to be writing formal poetry, but some people don't distinguish between them. The word "classic" was meant to distinguish this older "bob and wheel" from the current "bob".

The most unusual example of these forms that I've seen so far is something called a "Fibonnacci Haiku", if I recall the name right. The number of syllables or words in each line is determined by the Fibonnacci sequence.

 

[unapologetic]

Two suggestions

1. I agree with others about the drop of the pattern in the fifth stanza. It felt odd to me, like a speed bump in the middle of an interstate. However, I can see why you stuck with it.

2. I am a big supporter of the serial comma, a.k.a. the oxford comma. I believe that, in a series of three, there needs to be a comma before the conjunction. Not just for convention's sake, either. However, I believe it's a convention because it does help with clarity.

 

[champagne1982]

1. I agree with others about the drop of the pattern in the fifth stanza. It felt odd to me, like a speed bump in the middle of an interstate. However, I can see why you stuck with it.

2. I am a big supporter of the serial comma, a.k.a. the oxford comma. I believe that, in a series of three, there needs to be a comma before the conjunction. Not just for convention's sake, either. However, I believe it's a convention because it does help with clarity.

thanks for your views. I think to adapt this poem to all of the suggestions I've gotten would change the poem beyond how far I'd like to take it.

We used to have challenge poetry quite often and this poem was a product of one. In that light, I think the detailed edit some poets see as neccessary here is just a bit more effort than I think is warranted for this particular piece.

I'm happy to have shared and received some valuable advice on this thread. Thanks again, poets.