14th Amendment, Let's Change It

[Ulaven_Demorte]

That's simply insane. So you're saying the 14th Amendment amends the Article 1 Section 8 Naturalization Clause, that Congress has no say when an alien "gives birth" (for your tender ears) after entering the US illegally?

One of us is clearly insane here, I'll go with the one beating a dead horse that will never get up to run the Derby.

The 14th is very clear about children born within the borders of the United States. Without repeal of the 14th, which will not happen, congress cannot decide that the child is not a citizen on a whim. any law they attempt to pass to that effect would be struck down as unconstitutional by the SCOTUS.

That child, being a natual born citizen, is not subject to laws governing naturalization, having been granted citizenship by virtue of his or her birth (Just like you and I were). If Congress attempted to pass a law that took citizenship rights from a child born in the US it would never pass Constitutional muster until or unless the 14th were repealed. Which again, will not happen.

 

[PannieMonster]

How fucking long do you think the Constitution would be if we could find people today who were smart enough to write it?

It would be one sentence long. "The Congress shall make up laws as they feel fit to do, depending on which party is in office."

 

[unregistered]

 

[Weird Harold]

so? just because it hasn't been changed, doesn't, according to you, mean it's not open to change, so why the fuss from the gun totin' loons that isn't constitutional?

Because the Second amendment has not been changed and/or repealed, any attempt at gun control that isn't an attempt to change or repeal the second amendment is arguably unconstitutional.

If the anti-gun loonies want to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms, their first step should be to repeal or amend the the second amendment.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

The Constitution gives only the Congress the authority to make the rules of Naturalization, they might very well write a statute clarifying the matter, according to Section 5 of the Amendment and then tell the SCOTUS they have no appellate jurisdiction, like they did the federal courts in the matter of Attorney General decisions on deportation of aliens in the 1996 Immigration legislation.

And you can click your heels together three times, and still be standing exactly where you are Dorothy.

Repeat after me. Being born here is not "naturalization", you're confusing the hoops that immigrants must leap through to become citizens with the one hoop you had to slip through to be one..

naturalization: Naturalization is the acquisition of citizenship or nationality by somebody who was not a citizen or national of that country when he or she was born.

Deporting illegal aliens (which is covered under creating laws governing naruralization) is a whole different can of worms that denying citizenship to someone born in the US which is guaranteed in the Constitution thanks to the 14th Amendment. Congress cannot simply make a law in direct contradiction to the 14th Amendment and expect it to pass muster.

Otherwise they could have simply bypassed the provision that made all freed slaves citizens with a simple law passed saying that subsection is void.

In order to do this even the nimrod republican Congresspersons proposing this idea know that they have to repeal the 14th in order to do anything remotely like this. It's simply not going to happen. They will never get the votes in congress to forward the required amendment to the states for ratification, let alone the votes needed to ratify the Amendment striking down the 14th even in part from 3/4 of the states.

It's sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

[bronzeage]

If you don't believe in Jesus, why would you use His example (that you don't believe in) to back up your point?

Of course it doesn't make any logical sense...but that's the point, no?

If you claim to believe in Jesus, believers and non-believers will expect a certain standard of behavior of you. It's perfectly fair for someone outside your belief system to ask why you are not abiding by the teachings of the Master.

It doesn't matter why a person chooses to ask a question, any more than it matters why you choose not to answer it.

If you do not want to be accountable to the rules you claim to live by, why wonder about someone else?

If you are not a believer of Jesus, what the fuck are you bitching about?

 

[overthebow]

Is that what you called it when your wife gave birth to your children? She dropped a couple of kids?

He always says that she calved out.

 

[unregistered]

 

[eyer]

bronzeage:

It looks like you've got some issues with the issue that I sure don't understand.

Hopefully, you're a big enough boy to wallow your own way out.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Is this an attempt at an insult in the middle of what has been a fairly civilized debate? Shame UD.

Oh and which Republican Congress people are proposing this action?

So, Congress who can impeach any one in the government, tax us into oblivion, authorize the destruction of any nation and people on Earth, run the entire country through the Commerce Clause, tell us the First and Second Amendment doesn't mean what they say, but is totally powerless in the face of the product of the vaginal onslaught of an illegal alien...amazing.

Ok, I'm done. Besides you're beginning to revert to ad hominem type anyway.

That was a metaphor.. or "metafer" as your former President would call it. You're going to pull a Cap'n and run screaming ad Hominem really? LMAO! I won't bother to point out the obvious hypocrisy there.

Which Republican Congresspersons?
Tom Tancredo
John Kyl
Lindsey Graham
Lamar Smith
Nathan Deal
Rand Paul
Kevin Craig
Old Rino McCain has even stated support for hearings to look into the matter.

Hell Good old Fred Thompson was talking about this back in 2007.

Just to name a few.

You were done a long time ago Vette, you just refused to acknowledge it.

 

[Peregrinator]

If you don't believe in Jesus, why would you use His example (that you don't believe in) to back up your point?

Of course it doesn't make any logical sense...but that's the point, no?

You can believe in the man, Jesus of Nazareth, without believing in the tooth fairy "Christ" stuff.

 

[unregistered]

 

[bronzeage]

bronzeage:

It looks like you've got some issues with the issue that I sure don't understand.

Hopefully, you're a big enough boy to wallow your own way out.

I am sure there is much you do not understand.

As I said, it doesn't matter why you choose to not answer.

 

[Weird Harold]

Because it can't BE changed once ratified except through adoption of another Amendment repealing it.

Wrong. The 20th amendment changed the 12th:

The 20th Amendment cleared up this problem to a degree, by shortening the lame duck period. The Congress is sworn in on January 3 following the election, and the President is sworn in on January 20, rather than the March 4th prescribed in the 12th Amendment.

 

[unregistered]

 

[eyer]

You can believe in the man, Jesus of Nazareth, without believing in the tooth fairy "Christ" stuff.

How can you believe in the man, when you don't believe who he says he is?

That's totally illogical.

If Jesus of Nazareth is not the Christ, then all of it is a lie.

If you choose not to believe that Jesus is Christ, the Son of God - who he says he is - then whatever "Jesus" you're choosing to believe in is totally of your own fabrication...or man's.

Jefferson faced this same dilemma his entire life and finally settled for your solution. Despite our thinking that he was some definitive source on religion, he delayed demands for explanations of his religious views almost to his death. Finally he published his own bible: the 4 gospels verbatim, except he edited out the miracles - "the tooth fairy stuff" - that Jesus performed.

Jesus doesn't exist as some other "man" exists - his total essence derives wholly from His word. Therefore, if His word is false - saying exactly who He is, then He is false, for God, His Son, and His Spirit are One and inseparable.

(I understand that's "fairy tale stuff" to many - the overwhelming majority who have or will ever live, in fact. But, if you think of the basic element of water existing in three states - liquid, solid, and vapor - but still One...or, if you think of yourself as a father to your child, a grandparent to their child, an uncle to...you get my drift? These are physical clues familiar to us that can open our consciousness to spiritual mysteries few men have favor to pursue...)

I never have a problem with whatever whomever wants to believe in...all that matters to me is the truth of that belief; eg, I don't believe in "tooth fairy stuff" simply because I don't believe in the "tooth fairy" and vice versa...

...for truth to be, it must be consistent and unbroken: in this instance, both parts must be true for the whole to be true.

Man choosing to erect his is own illogical beliefs (consisting illogically of untruths and truths) is the very basis of religion...

...so truthfully, Perg, you're way more religious than I'll ever be.

BTW: when you want to debate your "it's just a bunch of cells" theory in regards to abortion...just start the thread.



Sorry, vette, for interrupting your thread...

 

[eyer]

I am sure there is much you do not understand.

As I said, it doesn't matter why you choose to not answer.

You posit "I am sure" re: how much I do or do not understand, but truthfully that's a boast you can't stand behind - thus, it is hollow.

And it seems like you're implying I'm not answering something you suggest exists - if you'd overtly come out with that, I'd be happy to answer.

 

[bronzeage]

You posit "I am sure" re: how much I do or do not understand, but truthfully that's a boast you can't stand behind - thus, it is hollow.

And it seems like you're implying I'm not answering something you suggest exists - if you'd overtly come out with that, I'd be happy to answer.

The question is, in regard to denying citizenship to US born children of non-citizens, What would Jesus do?


As I am the only person who can speak for myself, it's not a boast to say "I am sure there is much you do not understand."

Having to admitted "It looks like you've got some issues with the issue that I sure don't understand," there is no reason to suppose you understand anything more.

 

[richard_daily]

If Jesus of Nazareth is not the Christ, then all of it is a lie.

You mean there's not a zombie savior, who was born of a virgin and died for our sins?

Shit!!!!!!!

 

[JoeS1977]

I'ts a purely political ploy by the Republicans. They KNOW that it will never happen. But they played the music and you're dancing the jig.

They had a good long time to do something about illegal immigration and did nothing. If you think that they're going to change or repeal the 14th Amendment then you're not half as smart as I give you credit for.

I'm glad someone see's what a tool vette is.

 

[JoeS1977]

How can you believe in the man, when you don't believe who he says he is?

That's totally illogical.

And you're a fucking idiot. Of course you can believe that a man whom the legends are based on exists. And legends are what they are. His real name was Yesuha ben Yoseph. Get to know him. If even half the legends are true he was an interesting man.

 

[Rockie Montona]

I say we nuke Obama!

 

[eyer]

The question is, in regard to denying citizenship to US born children of non-citizens, What would Jesus do?

I imagine he might reply the same as he did in a similar instance when confronted with a government-related question: "Give unto Caesar..."

And your point is?

And you're a fucking idiot.

Probably the same point...

Of course you can believe that a man whom the legends are based on exists. And legends are what they are. His real name was Yesuha ben Yoseph. Get to know him. If even half the legends are true he was an interesting man.

You speak of two different men: Jesus of "the legends", and Jesus of the bible.

If you're actually insinuating that the bible is simply legend then, if that's true, it really doesn't matter to me how interesting Jesus was - I've known many interesting men in my life, he'd be just one more.

I thank God I don't believe that...

...so I won't call you a "f*cking idiot" for believing otherwise...

 

[JoeS1977]

ever, you miss the point, as I would expect you to do. I didn't say that I believed in the legend just that the person of legend was interesting. The bible is legend. It's also a great pieces of propaganda designed by the Catholic Church.

 

[mercury14]

Republicans want to fuck with the fabric of our nation in order to advance their partisan interests. Classic Republicanism.

Why didn't the Republicans do something about immigration all those years they were in power? G.W. advocated for immigration reform and said he was open to a wide range of proposals. As did President Clinton. But the Republicans in the House and Senate wouldn't listen to them for even a second and decided to stick to their title as "the party of no".

Republicans have nobody to blame but themselves. Now they're hollering for a change to the 14th Amendment, which they know will never happen.

Here's the Republican playbook:

Step 1) Do absolutely nothing about worsening problems when you're in power (ie immigration, health care crisis)
Step 2) When the other party gets in power, bitch that they're doing nothing about the very same worsening problems. And if they are doing something, claim that they're not anyway.
Step 3) Come up with no solutions, except those which have no chance of implemented and waste everyone's time.
Step 4) Claim that your party is showing good leadership