13 New Hampshire Pubs vote to secede from the Union

[pecksniff]

The bill failed, of course. But it is astonishing and disturbing it got any support at all.

More than 300 lawmakers voted against secession. But supporters of the measure like Matthew Santonastaso, a Republican from Rindge, argued it was just a matter of time before the union collapses.

“National divorce is going to happen. It’s inevitable, and we have an opportunity to get ahead of this,” he said.

 

[YDB95]

Keep in mind that NH is one of our smallest states, but it has our largest state legislature (400 members). With that ratio, you always have your share of nuts who get elected with very few votes.

 

[WillJ8787]

The bill failed, of course. But it is astonishing and disturbing it got any support at all.

It's actually more common than one thinks....in every town there is a succession wing nut.

 

[stickygirl]

That's a relief, I thought this was the Crown and Fiddle fighting back against microbreweries

 

[pecksniff]

I've heard of a jokey version of secessionism in Vermont -- it exists only because Vermont was independent for a very brief period -- but never before in NH.

 

[GothTalk]

The peaceful divorce folks are right.

Doesn't shock me that secessionism is growing in popularity.

Texas and California are both pretty big on it right now too.

 

[pecksniff]

The peaceful divorce folks are right.

Doesn't shock me that secessionism is growing in popularity.

Texas and California are both pretty big on it right now too.

Californian secessionism is intrastate -- there's a movement for the rural eastern counties to break away from the coast and form "New California." I've heard of a similar movement in Oregon. Neither talks in terms of independence from the U.S. -- it's more along the lines of West Virginia seceding from Virginia.

 

[WillJ8787]

I've heard of a jokey version of secessionism in Vermont -- it exists only because Vermont was independent for a very brief period -- but never before in NH.

It's usually some idiot who didn't get his way and is being ignored by the govt....we got plenty of these here too

 

[GothTalk]

Californian secessionism is intrastate -- there's a movement for the rural eastern counties to break away from the coast and form "New California." I've heard of a similar movement in Oregon. Neither talks in terms of independence from the U.S. -- it's more along the lines of West Virginia seceding from Virginia.

Partly, but not entirely. Plenty of lefty Californians think California would be better off without the other 49 states "dragging them down" and "preventing PROGRESS" with all their stupid civil rights and freedoms.

 

[WillJ8787]

Partly, but not entirely. Plenty of lefty Californians think California would be better off without the other 49 states "dragging them down" and "preventing PROGRESS" with all their stupid civil rights and freedoms.

Here is one! .....'s

 

[GothTalk]

Here is one! .....'s

You're from Crapadelphia and couldn't afford California ....shhhhhh.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Californian secessionism is intrastate -- there's a movement for the rural eastern counties to break away from the coast and form "New California." I've heard of a similar movement in Oregon. Neither talks in terms of independence from the U.S. -- it's more along the lines of West Virginia seceding from Virginia.

Which was unconstitutional.
But by Allah's will, nobody cared.

 

[pecksniff]

Partly, but not entirely. Plenty of lefty Californians think California would be better off without the other 49 states "dragging them down" and "preventing PROGRESS" with all their stupid civil rights and freedoms.

Well, I've never heard of any LW secessionist movement in CA.

Though there would be precedent -- not political, but literary. See Ernest Callenbach's Ecotopia.

 

[pecksniff]

See also the Republic of Cascadia. Join the Sasquatch Militia!

 

[GothTalk]

5th largest economy in the world, so...

Exactly.

No reason they couldn't. All they have to do is say "Fuck ya'll we're out." and unless the other 49 states are ready to go take it back by force that would pretty much be the end of it right there.

I have complicated feelings on this movement, but I do think that we have a very deep problem in our country. It isn't just that we disagree on topics (i.e. high/low taxes, school vouchers, policing), but that we don't even agree on the role of government, or why we even are a country.
If something doesn't change about that, I think we could see a state actually formally try to secede in the next 20 years.

100% .... there are DEEP rifts in fundamental basic "values" for a lack of a better term.

And if we can't live and let live in our respective states, (progressive states do progress, conservative states be conservative etc) we're going to have to figure something out before "You in that other state better live how we tell you from across the country!!" becomes a fight.

There are way too many indicators and red flags say that's where it's going to just ignore it and think "it will all work itself out." ..... history says it almost certainly will not 'work itself out'.

 

[pecksniff]

Exactly.

No reason they couldn't. All they have to do is say "Fuck ya'll we're out." and unless the other 49 states are ready to go take it back by force that would pretty much be the end of it right there.


100% .... there are DEEP rifts in fundamental basic "values" for a lack of a better term.

And if we can't live and let live in our respective states, (progressive states do progress, conservative states be conservative etc) we're going to have to figure something out before "You in that other state better live how we tell you from across the country!!" becomes a fight.

There are way too many indicators and red flags say that's where it's going to just ignore it and think "it will all work itself out." ..... history says it almost certainly will not 'work itself out'.

If it were possible for the present situation to provoke any serious secessionism, then something of the kind would have happened in previous periods when the country was much more bitterly divided than at present, such as the 1960s, or the 1930s, or even the late 19th Century, when there was Populism, and Free Silver, and labor-management conflicts often led to armed violence on both sides.

 

[pecksniff]

And there's so many problems with the "live and let live" idea. There's gay kids in florida, and trans kids in Texas. There's women who need abortions in states trying to take away that right, and Black people who just want to fucking vote.
And while people might say "Well, then they can move", that's not a feasible idea for many, many people.
But yeah, if we can't even agree on WHY the U.S. exists, we certainly can't figure out any other issues.

There is such thing as an American nation in a cultural sense. It is just as real as the French nation -- the French might see vast differences between a Parisian and a Breton and an Occitan and a Gascon, but they fade away when viewed from outside.

 

[pecksniff]

I don’t believe there is anymore.
Like I said, we don’t agree on what the role of government is. Which means we don’t agree on being a country, other than history and geography.
And, tbh, we don’t agree on the facts of history, so,,,

A nation is not its political constitution. France has had five monarchies, five republics and a Fascist puppet state, but through it all, France has remained France.

 

[WillJ8787]

I have complicated feelings on this movement, but I do think that we have a very deep problem in our country. It isn't just that we disagree on topics (i.e. high/low taxes, school vouchers, policing), but that we don't even agree on the role of government, or why we even are a country.
If something doesn't change about that, I think we could see a state actually formally try to secede in the next 20 years.

There is a simple way forward....we don't all have to agree....it isn't necessary or required.

There is another way....but, those who sow doubt, those who want the downfall of Western civilization...will lead you only to doubt and succession.

 

[Chobham]

The peaceful divorce folks are right.

Doesn't shock me that secessionism is growing in popularity.

Texas and California are both pretty big on it right now too.

It's going to get a lot uglier before there's any chance of it getting better.

 

[pecksniff]

I would argue that a country needs to agree why it exists. Or else you end up where we are now

There is no reason why a country needs to agree why it exists. A country simply exists.

 

[Chernosoth]

Hampy is less Live Free or Die now since it was invaded by Massholes.

 

[pecksniff]

A country does not simply exist.

Of course it does. A nation is an organic growth -- no person and no single generation of persons can be said to create it, nor can any particular date be assigned to its emergence. The American nation existed before independence.

 

[pecksniff]

Yeah, so, we don't look anything like we did back then. I think you have this mythic view of what a country is, which isn't entirely unlike the myth of the nuclear family which never ends in divorce or anything. That's not how the world works. Countries split. Shit, countries are forced together.
To think they are these ever continuing monoliths as straight up ahistoric.

No, they are not ever-continuing monoliths. They split or form in very lengthy historic processes. Consider the English nation. It did not exist when the Saxons invaded Britannia. It did exist prior to 1066 -- but nobody can say exactly how long prior; it would not be plausible to say, that the nation sprang into existence the moment it was politically united under the House of Wessex. A similarly long process replaced Roman Gallia with the land of the Franks, and led to the emergence of France out of that.

None of this ever involved any political consensus as to why England or France should exist.

 

[WillJ8787]

I would argue that a country needs to agree why it exists. Or else you end up where we are now

Ah, I see....another troll

Where's BiBobodicksiebotato now lady rush