100,000 New Yorkers Face Destitution

[REDWAVE]

Another article in today's (June 10) NYT illustrates the "wonders" of the free market system. It recounts that up to 100,000 jobless New Yorkers will lose their unemployment benefits over the next two weeks. Given the current state of the economy, there is fat chance of more than a handful of them finding a job. They will be forced into utter destitution.

New York doesn't qualify for an extension of unemployment benefits, because its unemployment rate is not high enough. Unemployment in NYC is at 7.7%, a truly staggering figure. But for the state as a whole, it is "only" 6.1%, but only 3.3% of the workforce is receiving unemployment. That is a highly revealing figure in itself: only a little over half those who are out of work are receiving unemployment in the first place, because of numerous restrictions and limitations on receiving even the paltry amount unemployment pays.

Employees would vigorously oppose an extension, a business spokesperson said. Natch-- those exploitative bastards want there to be huge hordes of desperate people out there willing to take any job. That keeps those who are "lucky" enough to have a job docile and afraid to press for a wage increase or better working conditions.

The article notes drily: "History suggests that people who exhaust their emergency benefits during a recession have a hard row to hoe." That's putting it mildly-- the phrases "up shit creek without a paddle," "snowball's chance in hell," etc., come to mind here.

Finally, it should be noted that much of the unemployment in NYC is the direct or indirect result of the Sept. 11 attacks. If Bush really gave a damn about the victims of 9/11, this wouldn't be happening. These people would be getting the help they need. But of course, compassion for victims of 9/11 is no part of Bush's real agenda. It's all about bombing people on the other side of the world who had nothing to do with 9/11, and taking away our freedom.

 

[MissTaken]

Correction:

Much of the unemployment in New York State is the direct or indirect result of 9/11.

In my area, the unemployment rate ranges from 8 percent to 10.5 percent.

In fact, it has been like this for many years and no one gave a fuck then or now.

Why? Because the population base in rural New York doesn't provide enough votes to warrant a second thought.

Pataki put a freeze on state hiring after 9/11.
Certain funding streams to local employers in the human services were redirected to the city.

Hence, there are many here who are facing destitution or are living it.

Forget unemployment. Who is working on the economic development.

Job creation is the key.

And it isn't about Bush, Redwave. I am sorry to disappoint you, but there are many other decision makers out there that are letting down their constituents.

Hillary?
Pataki?

Perhaps I sound jaded and ranty, now.

I am bringing home 1/4 of what I did before 9/11. There is no foreseeable change or opportunities.

Oh well...ya can rant at lit, but who really listens? No one that can do anything.

 

[miles]

Dude.

If you had a heart you would immediately direct those people to your website which links to online casino gambling. Then they could gamble their last red cent and triple their money.

Or maybe they would lose and you would be responsible.

Bitch.

 

[Ishmael]

The numbers are large, that is true. But that number represents less than 1% of the population of NYC.

Unemployment is designed to be a 'bridge' not a perpetual income stream.

You go where the jobs are, or you stick it out. That is a personal choice.

While I certainly feel sorry for those effected by 9/11, and let us not forget that NYC was NOT the only region effected, I do not see that as an excuse for the government to re-create a perpetual welfare environment. We've already been there and have seen the effects.

Ishmael

 

[Chuckus]

Originally posted by REDRIPPLE:


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[MissTaken]

Yes, Ish.

They did create a large part of the mess, but extending unemployment isn't the answer.

Reeducation.

Moving to where the jobs are.

Not making it so difficult for manufacturers to move into the state.

These could be ways to improve the economy.

And one more sentence fragment and I am out of here!

 

[LukkyKnight]

Let them learn from our mistakes.

It's such a relief to know that the United States can serve as a model for other countries to learn from. If they avoid our approach obviously that solves all the rest of the destitution in the world. I think we can be proud of that, even though it's sort of a perverse thing... We've shone the light which will save the rest of the world.

 

[Ishmael]

Yes, Ish.

They did create a large part of the mess, but extending unemployment isn't the answer.

Reeducation.

Moving to where the jobs are.

Not making it so difficult for manufacturers to move into the state.

These could be ways to improve the economy.

And one more sentence fragment and I am out of here!

All of the above work. And you forgot to mention lowering of the taxes. A proven way to jump start a faltering economy.

There is another item you failed to mention. Start your own business. There is no rule that says you must be an employee. Look at REDWAVE and his capitalistic on-line gaming enterprise. That's the kind of entrepreneurial, capitalist, spirit that made this country great. You just have to admire a capitalist like that.

Ishmael

 

[MissTaken]

Ish?

I would have to identify a skill in order to start my own business.


Perhaps, putting my red light out would work?



Yes. Taxes in NYS are exhorbitantly high. (I have forgotten where we are ranked nationwide, but it is up there.) People are leaving the state and quickly for jobs down south. Fewer people means higher taxes per capita and less money flowing in the state.

Yes, 9/11 has definitely exacerbated and already existing problem.

And the politicians are doing less than they could to alleviate the problem.

 

[REDWAVE]

Politicos, welfare, & taxes

Good point, Miss Taken. The Senate Democrats are no friends of the workers either. I didn't mean to let them off the hook. Both parties represent big business, and have been corrupted by the influence of big money. The only bourgeois politician in America with integrity is Ralph Nader.

Ishmael, as usual you reveal the bigness of your heart. You remind me of Marie Antoinette-- "Let them eat cake!" Are people unemployed in massive numbers, with their unemployment benefits exhausted, with little or no hope of getting another job? No problem! They can start their own businesses!

Insane.

Or another right-wing nostrum: let's help the poor-- by lowering taxes on the rich! O yes, welfare for the rich is very much alive. It's just welfare for the poor that's being eliminated.

 

[joolushko]

Growing up my entire life in NY, I find this thread very interesting. Politics in NY always pissed me off. There was always finger pointing and not enough really getting done.

Ya know what, I didn't care who Giuliani was screwing or if people in Westchester were excited or pissed with their new neighbors, the Clintons. That had nothing to do with real NY politics.

What I care about now, is that most of my family is in NY and feeling the crunch from the events of the last year? Where I am now was not immune to the lay offs? I live in a tourist city, without the tourists, there are no jobs anywhere, not just the casino jobs.

 

[Sillyman]

There is another item you failed to mention. Start your own business. There is no rule that says you must be an employee.

That's an option, but a highly risky one. With so many people out of work, fewer people are going to want to be spending money, so starting a business would be a risky proposition. You also need some kind of starting funds for a business, and even those that can get them could just as easily end up really fucking themselves over. Then of course not everyone out of work has the needed skills to run a business either.

 

[REDWAVE]

Joolushko

Yeah, there are a lot of transplanted New Yorkers here in Vegas. There isn't any really good Jewish deli here anymore, though, now that the legendary Max is too sick to run his store.

What we really need is a massive public works program, to put the unemployed back to work and rebuild our crumbling public infrastructure. How to pay for it? By greatly increasing taxes on the rich, which have been cut to ridiculously low levels.

 

[Problem Child]

Word is they're going to need lots of help with the Russian potato harvest again this year.

 

[REDWAVE]

100,000+

Of course, the 100,000 figure doesn't include those in NYC who are already destitute. I don't have any figures handy right now, but I know it's a huge number of people.

Nor is moving somewhere else going to help when there's recession everywhere. I picked New York as an example because it's been hit harder than most. But people are suffering financially now all over.

 

[SINthysist]

People are always suffering financially. The point is, here, now, the suffering is better than any time historically.

That is because we have always stressed individual accomplishment over absorption into the Borg...

 

[REDWAVE]

I've made my point

Ah, I think my work is done here. This thread plainly reveals the insensitivity of the right-wingers to the suffering of ordinary people.

How right you are, SINthysist-- the suffering here is just wonderful. What an ingrate I must be not to appreciate it! And a lot of of people are getting the chance to enjoy the "individual accomplishment" of digging through dumpsters to try to find something to eat, or hunting for a place to sleep where they won't get rousted by the police . . .

 

[SINthysist]

I've been Suffering. Unemployed. Struggling. Why do you always assume it is a static position in life? I prefer to assume that people have dignity and nobility and will struggle to better themselves at every opportunity (of which this land abounds).

You seek to demean and label them as permanent losers...

 

[REDWAVE]

Ridiculous.

 

[SINthysist]

Got you speechless on that one you old class-hater you...

 

[REDWAVE]

Yeah, right

The topsy turvy absurdity of the right-wingers' worldview never ceases to amaze me. Someone who wants the unemployed to get the help they need is really seeking to "demean" them. On the other hand, someone who callously wants them to be left to starve is affirming their "dignity and nobility"!

The class hatred is on the part of the rich against the poor, not the other way around. The ruling class constantly wages class war against the rest of us. They have to, in order to stay in power.

 

[MissTaken]

Re: Politicos, welfare, & taxes

Ishmael, as usual you reveal the bigness of your heart. You remind me of Marie Antoinette-- "Let them eat cake!" Are people unemployed in massive numbers, with their unemployment benefits exhausted, with little or no hope of getting another job? No problem! They can start their own businesses!

Insane.

.

No, Redwave.

Not insane. I am considering exactly that. With skills and a workable idea, there is always grant money and support.

Now, I realize that this is not an option for everyone.

It is for me though. I will be doing my homework over the summer to explore what is available.

It is that, or move my children thousands of miles away from their family.

I will take the risk with someone else's money.

 

[MissTaken]

Re: 100,000+

Of course, the 100,000 figure doesn't include those in NYC who are already destitute. I don't have any figures handy right now, but I know it's a huge number of people.

Nor is moving somewhere else going to help when there's recession everywhere. I picked New York as an example because it's been hit harder than most. But people are suffering financially now all over.

New York has been in a recession for several years.

It is not new to us, only exacerbated by 9/11.

The cost of living is exhorbitant. Wages are low. I am speaking primarily based upon my life in rural New York and the observations of freinds and family visiting from other regions.

Paper and logging has been the final major industry north of Syracuse for some time. In the last three years, six of 9 paper plants have closed in a six county area. People have moved overnight, leaving their homes with "For sale" signs knowing until there is significant growth in the area, these homes will simply be their tax burdens.

 

[SINthysist]

No, the poor hate the rich. The poor always assume a zero-sum game with wealth...

You hate the rich don't you. In your world view the fact that I may have possetion other than government granted means that I had to hurt someone to do that. In fact I would submit that you would ignore the "Don't feed the Bears" signs in the local national forest as being an uncaring mean-spirited right-wing attack to starve bears when in fact it is the greatest kindness we can do them in teaching them not to interact with man. Men are infested with money, the worst bane to animaldom since fleas...

To continue the dole removes reason to try for someone who is probably already clinically distressed and socially disadvantaged for not being gainfully employed. You wish to be an enabler, keeping them poor, depressed, willing to listen to your message of hate and false promise for a promise land you cannot deliver, but only salivate at the prospect of bringing it down. It is chilling to see how willing you condemn perfectly good humans to your Marxist Misery and deny those whom have suceeded to show them how by automatically labeling them "right-winger."

 

[REDWAVE]

Too silly

SINthysist, you're just too silly for words. The poor hate the rich? No, the rich exploit and oppress the poor. I hate the injustice and oppression perpetrated by the rich against the rest of us. Anyone with any sense does.