'1' ratings

[Typo Fu Master]

Sorry if this topic has been discussed to death, but my curiosity has got the better of me again.

Are there ever any stories that have received a '1' rating and the rating was justified? If not, why is there even a '1' rating at all if it's going to be removed during periodic "troll sweeps"? I'm of the opinion that all the true '1' stories don't even make it through the submission queue.

Is there a system in the works that does away with a numbered rating system all together?

Are you in favor of a numbered system over another?

I don't have anything specific in mind, mainly because I believe there is no 'perfect' system. Humans are the weak link in the system, and their whims will always color the results. Still, I can't understand a system that has a rating option that might as well be labeled: You Have Been Trolled. Ignore this rating.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Sorry if this topic has been discussed to death, but my curiosity has got the better of me again.

Are there ever any stories that have received a '1' rating and the rating was justified? If not, why is there even a '1' rating at all if it's going to be removed during periodic "troll sweeps"? I'm of the opinion that all the true '1' stories don't even make it through the submission queue.

Is there a system in the works that does away with a numbered rating system all together?

Are you in favor of a numbered system over another?

I don't have anything specific in mind, mainly because I believe there is no 'perfect' system. Humans are the weak link in the system, and their whims will always color the results. Still, I can't understand a system that has a rating option that might as well be labeled: You Have Been Trolled. Ignore this rating.

I've given a one before. I feel it was justified. The spelling was atrocious, the writing was atrocious, the premise was trite, it had at least a dozen of the auto back click tirggers.

In fairness, I pmed Laurel and asked to have it removed when the author replied to my feedback and I discovered he was in the phillipenes and english was a second language. Seems he wrote it in something else and ran it through an online translator, which, as is their habit, magled it.

 

[Liar]

I don't think a single 1 is removed as a "troll" vote. Only if there is some kind of sytem to it. Several 1 from one IP the same day, several 1 against the saem author in a row... that lkind of thing.

Read a random story, and give it a 1 beause you honestly think it sucks hairy ass... I think it'll stay.

 

[R. Richard]

Laurel will remove ISOLATED 1 votes. If you get something like Colly addressed, it may have a lot of 1 votes. [I can understand the guy's problem, but I don't like to read junk, no matter what the reason.]

 

[Liar]

Laurel will remove ISOLATED 1 votes. If you get something like Colly addressed, it may have a lot of 1 votes. [I can understand the guy's problem, but I don't like to read junk, no matter what the reason.]

So basically, if I disagree with the majority about a story (they think it's good, I think it's junk), I'm not allowed to vote what I honsely think it deserves?

 

[Typo Fu Master]

So basically, if I disagree with the majority about a story (they think it's good, I think it's junk), I'm not allowed to vote what I honsely think it deserves?

Does Laurel take posted comments into consideration? If so, I don't really see a problem with removing it if the response was "OMG U SUCK!" But a well reasoned explanation should leave the rating.

 

[Darkniciad]

In my opinion, any vote of one or two that is not accompanied by some sort of relevant feedback explaining the vote is pure troll, or at the least completely inconsiderate. Ones without feedback should be annihilated without question when they are isolated.

If something is that awful, and you are willing to bother clicking the low vote, it only takes a few more clicks and a few more keystrokes to say "lack of punctuation and numerous spelling errors made this story impossible to read with any enjoyment" or whatever the problem may be.

I just say, "Yikes." and move on without voting if it is that bad. If the author has requested feedback, I'll send private feedback, without voting, which explains why I didn't like the story. If they are really asking for honest votes, I will vote. I have actually given a three recently in this situation with private feedback explaining why, where I have previously never voted below a four.

I can't imagine *anything* that would make me vote a one. Even with requests for feedback and votes, I can't see how I would make it to the bottom of the page through such a story to even see the voting form, let alone enter anything into it.

The natural inclination of your average reader is to just click the back button on something they don't like. Most any low vote of one or two with no feedback probably has some sort of ill intent behind it that barely relates to the story and should be removed.

Just me long, rambling opinion.

 

[CharleyH]

Sorry if this topic has been discussed to death, but my curiosity has got the better of me again.

Are there ever any stories that have received a '1' rating and the rating was justified? If not, why is there even a '1' rating at all if it's going to be removed during periodic "troll sweeps"? I'm of the opinion that all the true '1' stories don't even make it through the submission queue.

Is there a system in the works that does away with a numbered rating system all together?

Are you in favor of a numbered system over another?

No story deserves a zero. Even the worst of stories. 1 for effort, 2 for trying. The other three marks I am more discerning about, but that is me and my scoring scheme. This is a site where many people cum to jerk off, so a 1 normally means a patron did not jerk off. It's not that I agree, but everyone has their voting standards.

It's also a free site where few authors like to be criticized. A ten scale may be better for them, but really? Any scale will have its share of complainers and 1 votes.

Edit: 1's are also removed in my experience, because some jerks just hate the niche or you, so they vote a 1 without even reading your story. 1 votes are removed for a fair insurance, I think.

 

[gauchecritic]

I'm pretty sure there are quite a few stories that get legit. one votes. If the story has an average of two and a half or under then a one isn't going to stick out. In that situation it is a five which would be a suspect score and subject to sweeping.

Let's face it, if there are no stories that deserve a one then it's highly improbable, by the same token, that there are stories that deserve a five.

4.5 and rounding up are my reasons for giving a five.

Hell if you're going to be that picky there are very few actually published works that are a straight 5 all the way through.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Read a random story, and give it a 1 beause you honestly think it sucks hairy ass... I think it'll stay.

Just make it one of Liar's.

 

[Guest]

I'm of two minds about the voting. First, i don't think a 1 and an insulting comment is going to do anything to improve writing. Let's face it, this whole thing has a little "American Idol" or "Gong Show" flavor to it -- good or bad, people will vote against one story to improve the standing of another story. People go through and low-ball the top-raters in a catagory regularly. The system is highly prone to abuse. I can't think of a good one, though, except to remove the "vote anonymously" ability and require a comment on every vote. At least then, trolls would show up clearly, and possibly some useful feedback might emerge (although, in my cynical heart, I don't think the majority of people who post here are wanting or ready for feedback that isn't all love. If they were, they'd be getting it beforehand, from first readers and editors.)

Personally, I don't vote on anything I don't read to the end, and if I don't like it in the first few paragraphs, I have better things to do with my time than suffer through to the last page. I back-click and move on. I don't waste my time on something I don't like, and I don't try to dictate to others via a negative vote. So I rarely vote lower than a 3, and the 3 shows up for stuff that I liked enough to read all the way through, but that had enough problems to distract me from what could have been a better story.

My negative comment or low score - at MOST - will piss someone off or hurt their feelings (I've watched it happen to others and felt it myself.) It will not improve their writing. A lack of votes might make someone wonder what's wrong. Someone who asks for commentary and sincerely is prepared for it will get my commentary outside the voting in a private message.

As for me, in my completely personal and biased opinion, I post nothing to Literotica that hasn't had at least 3 reads/edits from others. I go over everything very carefully. I just won't post it otherwise, because that's what I think it takes to turn my drivel into something readable. I know many people can't, aren't able, or just don't think to do that.

I ask for readings and opinions from people who have no reason to curry my favor or protect my feelings by lying to me. I ask them to comment on the problems I see or worry about, and sometimes I ask just to hear what's good because I can no longer see it. I know many writers here work their asses off on their stories -- and I know many who toss up rough drafts. I've gotten negative, even cruel comments from people on items that had nothing to do with the writing itself and much to do with me writing something they didn't think I should, or putting it in the wrong catagory, or just because I pissed them of elsewhere. I've gotten bombed on stuff I know, deep in my heart and with a stack of positive comments from tough editors, is good.

I leave the comments and voting up because there's no protection in the publishing world from the slings and arrows, and I can get used to them just as well here as anywhere else. This place is just a training ground to toughen my skin.

 

[yui]

To be perfectly honest, I am so not going to waste my time on a story that I would rate a “1”; and if I don’t read it, I’m certainly not going to scroll to the bottom of the page (or pages) to give it a “1” if I haven’t actually read it, eh?

Peace,

Yui

 

[Liar]

Just make it one of Liar's.

S'okay. Mine kick ass.

What? Modesty? Moi?

 

[Typo Fu Master]

The responses so far have reinforced my opinion that a '1' = troll. The few legitimate 1's were likely accompanied by an explanation, but I still don't know if leaving a comment with the rating influences whether it stays or not.

I'm not one to comment or rate a bad story. Like many people, if I think it sucks I'm just back clicking out.

 

[Darkniciad]

The responses so far have reinforced my opinion that a '1' = troll. The few legitimate 1's were likely accompanied by an explanation, but I still don't know if leaving a comment with the rating influences whether it stays or not.

I'm not one to comment or rate a bad story. Like many people, if I think it sucks I'm just back clicking out.

That's a question I suppose only L and M could answer. If they had the opportunity to look at a reported 1, and saw a well thought out feedback comment with it that hit points which were obviously valid... I can't see it being removed.

If something is crap, and someone explains why it's crap without being any more harsh than absolutely necessary, it is at least an attempt to point out where the author is losing readability/enjoyment points and perhaps help the author improve.

Removal doesn't appear to be an entirely slash and burn operation. I have had several stories get bombed in a day, with some being repaired later and others not. It's likely an IP based sweep for many of the more common bombings. If one IP is posting 1s on every story on the first page, it's obvious those votes are B.S. and away they go. Depending upon how the database is set up, and how much info it stores, you can do fairly targeted search and destroy with a carefully worded query. Then all you have to do is review any remaining individual cases.

 

[matriarch]

I have also given '1' ratings, genuinely to truly apalling pieces of work. Not many, but I felt they were all deserved. And quite often, reading a piece that bad will make me curious about the author, and view their other works. If they are all as bad, I don't bother voting on any of them, if they are better, then I give better marks.

I fail to see all the hassle about getting isolated '1' votes. The option is there, 1 through to 5, so it is perfectly ok to use the '1' as a vote if you feel the work deserves it. I consider most of us at least on here, as people able to fairly assess and vote on a colleague's work, without being considered malicious voters.

The only time I disagree is when someone goes through an author's whole folder, and marks every single piece of work with a one, in a very very short space of time. Deliberate, vindictive voting, i.e. trolling. It's happened to me, every one of my 19 stories and 20 poems were 1-bombed over one night. Those were removed by Laurel - eventually.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Reminds me of an idea someone once had to removed the 1 and 2 ratings altogether, not realizing that then the '3' would be the new '1'

The way I look at it: 3=average. 4=above average and 5=way above average.

then 2=below average and 1=way below.

But fuck it. I've stopped thinking about it. I either give a 5 or I don't vote.

 

[amicus]

dr_mabeuse]Reminds me of an idea someone once had to removed the 1 and 2 ratings altogether, not realizing that then the '3' would be the new '1'

The way I look at it: 3=average. 4=above average and 5=way above average.

then 2=below average and 1=way below.

But fuck it. I've stopped thinking about it. I either give a 5 or I don't vote.

[/I]

~~~~~~~

For once and perhaps the only time, I fully agree with Mabeuse. If a piece of work moves me in a positive way I applaud it, if not, I move on without a vote.

I think one should not be a critic in reading, other people are paid to do that.

amicus...

 

[Liar]

But fuck it. I've stopped thinking about it. I either give a 5 or I don't vote.

A little bit like me. If I have managed to spontaneously read a story all the way to the end, it's better than average.

So it's 4 (if it's good, but not exeptional) or 5 (if I get writer's envy) from me these days.

 

[amicus]

Liar]A little bit like me. If I have managed to spontaneously read a story all the way to the end, it's better than average.

So it's 4 (if it's good, but not exeptional) or 5 (if I get writer's envy) from me these days.

[/I]


~~~~~~~~~

And I even agree with that, although, also being the recipient of votes, I just cannot cast anything other than a 5. But I do fully understand your thinking.

amicus...

 

[oggbashan]

I think a 1 can be justified as a WTF? comment.

I have had several 1 votes on 'White Scut' which for a time was the lowest rated Erotic Horror story. Feedback showed that it was neither erotic, nor horror. My excuse was that the story was an experiment when the Erotic Horror category was new. When another story came at an even lower rating I had a look out of curiosity. The premise was reasonable and the writing could have been improved by judicious editing. There were also spelling errors and unexplained breaks as if sentences had been omitted. However the author didn't respond when I suggested, in feedback, that the errors could be edited away.

'White Scut' was a different scenario - the idea was bad. The only people who appreciated it thought I had written for Humor/Satire...

Personally, I would never vote lower than 5. If the story isn't worth that, I back away. If there are errors, I might send feedback or a PM, but not vote.

I would never vote down a story because I didn't like the subject or the category. I would vote a 5 for a good story even if the action leaves me cold.

Og

PS. Just checked. White Scut is still the lowest rated of all my stories at 2.91.
Next, in ascending order: Sunday Morning 3.06; Trapped 3.14; Hen Party 3.15; Stag Party 3.38 and Bagged at the Opera and Donna, both on 3.50.

No wonder I had to disqualify myself from the Last Place Contests!

 

[Typo Fu Master]

Generally, when I vote it's usually a '5'. I have voted '4' on a couple of occasions, and I think a '3' once. I'm honest about it, but the worse a story is, the less likely it is to receive any kind of feedback from me. I doubt I'd ever vote a '2' and I can't ever see myself giving a '1'. I suspect the vast majority of those that vote are the same way. If a story is just plain bad, most will simply click out of it.

Which means the few that do give what they honestly feel is a justifiable '1' are also standing a good chance of getting swept out the door during troll patrols.

I wish there was an honest way to judge a story without a rating system. Every website I've ever been to has the same problem no matter what they do, and it's not just for stories. Friends will vote highly for friends and bomb the competitors. In a perverse kind of way, it almost balances out.

 

[jeanne_d_artois]

Even I can't beat Og.

My worst is 'Merlin and Nimue' rated at 3.00

That story, and Og's less successful experiments that he lists above, probably do deserve 1 votes. Experiments either work - or they don't. Merlin lost his way and his magic.

jeanne

 

[Guest]

Generally, when I vote it's usually a '5'. I have voted '4' on a couple of occasions, and I think a '3' once. I'm honest about it, but the worse a story is, the less likely it is to receive any kind of feedback from me. I doubt I'd ever vote a '2' and I can't ever see myself giving a '1'. I suspect the vast majority of those that vote are the same way. If a story is just plain bad, most will simply click out of it.

Which means the few that do give what they honestly feel is a justifiable '1' are also standing a good chance of getting swept out the door during troll patrols.

I wish there was an honest way to judge a story without a rating system. Every website I've ever been to has the same problem no matter what they do, and it's not just for stories. Friends will vote highly for friends and bomb the competitors. In a perverse kind of way, it almost balances out.

Agreed. This is a system based on two assumptions -- anyone who wants to write can make that writing public, and anyone who wants to read has an opinion worth hearing. While many of us might well feel a certain hesitation to accept those assumptions, they are also not easy to speak against, because they require an act of judgement, and not many of us feel qualified or entitled to make such judgements.

Most venues do not allow writers to self-select for publication -- writers must submit to editors who perportedly have a particular (high?) standard against which to hold those stories and a limited number of spots to fill. When stories are reviewed, critics are (supposedly) people with a background in literature or at least in the literature of the genre, a (high level) criteria against which to hold stories, and the ability to express their opinions articulately.

Still, it's all opinion. The underpinings of the opinions might or might not be more apparant, but they can be called into question. What does exist is a core of people the average reader can look to for opinions, whose opinions we can compare to our own and judge for worthiness. We can chose to follow a particular group of critics or particular editors who, from our own trial and judgement, we find coincide with our own standards.

That's what's missing here. There is no core group of opinion makers here. Anyone looking at ratings does not know the motivations, opinions, or track record of the people voting. While those of us willing to make the effort can locate writers here we like and ask them/check their favorites list to find other stories, not everyone will make that effort.

Lit's system is ostensibly democratic in that most anyone can submit a story and most anyone can vote. This means it is, by design, prone to abuses and difficult to monitor (our US voting system requires we identify ourselves as qualified to vote before voting, even though our vote is not connected to us). We could go with a yes/no system which would reduce story competition, or a system that required an ID and comment to vote which would connect the voter to the vote, or create a core group to rate stories which would be, I'm sure, all kinds of aggrivation on many levels.

With the number of stories available here, some kind of rating system is desireable just to help people find stories they want to read. I just see that any system is going to be work intensive, thus not likely to be put in place here.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've given a couple of 1's, and of course they were completely deserved. Any 1's I've been given, however, were from malicious trolls...