“Realism” in writing sexual relations

[LdyHoneybee]

Hello, i am new as of yesterday and trying to figure out if there is a niche fo me here. I write so i know what good writing is. I have also been told I am a good roleplayer, and I enjoy it. I am looking around and randomly reading things of other authors, good and not so. I even looked a bit into the archives/old things from the early 2000s.

i have been interested for a long time in whether men can write really convincing female characters, especially as regard to sex and sexual issues and vice versa. i have read female authors who write sex scenes for their books (not talking about romance novels here, the heaving breast crew) and also at least one who is quite famous for her classic literotica. They seem “realistic” to me. But i am female, as are the authors. However, Charles Dickens immediately identified George Eliot as female by her writing, so i don’t know.

I found several astonishingly good male authors here; however, I am not sure some really “get” the female psyche despite my hopes when I started reading because they definitely showed writing skill. From my perspective as female, women do absolutely not need the missionary position and a permanent cuddling set-up to revel in sex or to enjoy reading it. On the other hand, I wonder if many women really identify with characters who become wildly excited (maybe a little) by being banged on by men who say they love them while going at sex as if they were engaging in it alone and who periodically manage to ask them breathlessly in midbang if they are enjoying it. Am I wrong about this? Is it just the writers I happened to see? Again, these are good writers in many other respects.

Is this a hopeless situation? Do you think that men and women are so hopelessly different that neither can write realistic reactions for the other in the grip of sexual interaction? Are there writers anyone has found who do seem to get it, women who can write realistic men or men who can write realistic women in extremis?

Thanks for being patient with this new person who would like to learn. I turned in a couple of “prologues” last night to test the water, but then I read here that people are waiting months for their writing to be evaluated (No criticism…I understand).

 

[lovecraft68]

Rather than debate it, I'd answer this in the sense the only thing you can do is write your stories the way you'd like to see more stories written and set an example...sort of, because everyone is going to do what they do anyway.

I've written some topics that I have seen butchered here, and done them correctly, and aside from an occasional "Now that's how its done comment" Only thing I get out of it is, "Hey, want the real thing? Its here."

I'm sure this thread will get hot soon, this has been discussed before and were about to hear all about it again. I pop the corn and wait for the guys to come in and tell you silly womens all about how you think, feel, what turns you on and why, cause they know dammit.

 

[Voboy]

It's entirely possible for good writers to write convincingly outside of their perspectives. Assuming it can't be done, ever, or that doing so is not accessible to many of the writers here at Lit, is painting with FAR too broad a brush.

I'll just leave it at that.

 

[lovecraft68]

It's entirely possible for good writers to write convincingly outside of their perspectives. Assuming it can't be done, ever, or that doing so is not accessible to many of the writers here at Lit, is painting with FAR too broad a brush.

I'll just leave it at that.

The issue with this topic is its all generalization. Yes, there are traits that are more inherent in women than men, different thought process, emotions etc...but that's not every women

The bets way to look at anything-and wow has this society lost the ability to do it-is in any group its never all and its never none.

If the OP wrote what she felt was the perfect female perspective, there will be women who will read it and be like "That's not me"

My wife has a friend that she always jokes would make the perfect man. She doesn't want anything serious, she goes out once in a while and hooks up, when she's done she kicks them out because she likes to sleep alone. She talks dirty, tells crude jokes, and has an attitude almost as bad as mine to where we always joke about being long lost siblings.

A story from her perspective, despite being female would sound to some like a guy making bad attempt at writing women, but for her, it would be dead on.

 

[MsNatalie99]

My simple answer, is yes it can be done. Many writers tell stories outside of their perspective. It should also be noted that the reader's perspective it's not always Universal. You may read a story with a female protagonist written by Joe187 (made up, so sorry Joe if you're really out there), and find his portrayal of a woman's psyche unconvincing. However, Tina in HR might disagree.

I've read from several female authors, who seem to lack insight into how men really think. You think it's easy to gauge by what we read, but people are complicated and nuanced. Because of this characters are often complicated and nuanced. So writing a woman's perspective even when done right won't translate to all women.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

I don’t want to argue about it. I am just looking to find out what people’s perspectives are. I hope it did not come across as an invitation to argue. I just wanted to find out what people think! I would like some guidance about what success looks like. In order to be able to evaluate, people would need to be, I guess, guys who know of female authors and females who know of male authors who “get it.” It is kind of a technical question. I write “outside” also and have a male protagonist about whom I care, and I do not want guys to laugh at him.

i first noticed this when I read a book by a well known author (male) who tried to write a sexual fantasy sequence for the wife of the main character and thought “huh uh, off target.”

 

[MsNatalie99]

I don’t want to argue about it. I am just looking to find out what people’s perspectives are. I hope it did not come across as an invitation to argue. I just wanted to find out what people think! I would like some guidance about what success looks like. In order to be able to evaluate, people would need to be, I guess, guys who know of female authors and females who know of male authors who “get it.” It is kind of a technical question. I write “outside” also and have a male protagonist about whom I care, and I do not want guys to laugh at him.

You're fine. Just opinions here. Yours is just as valid as anyone else's. safe space

 

[TxRad]

LHB, write what you want, the way you want. You will find an audience here.

LC68 likes to stir the shit more often than not. Take what he says with a grain of salt.

I try my best to write good female characters. I've been told I do a good job of it in most cases. I like women and it comes across in my writing.

 

[lovecraft68]

My simple answer, is yes it can be done. Many writers tell stories outside of their perspective. It should also be noted that the reader's perspective it's not always Universal. You may read a story with a female protagonist written by Joe187 (made up, so sorry Joe if you're really out there), and find his portrayal of a woman's psyche unconvincing. However, Tina in HR might disagree.

I've read from several female authors, who seem to lack insight into how men really think. You think it's easy to gauge by what we read, but people are complicated and nuanced. Because of this characters are often complicated and nuanced. So writing a woman's perspective even when done right won't translate to all women.

I have a story here where I write from the POV of a black female dominatrix from the rural south.

Go big or go home.

 

[lovecraft68]

LHB, write what you want, the way you want. You will find an audience here.

LC68 likes to stir the shit more often than not. Take what he says with a grain of salt.

I try my best to write good female characters. I've been told I do a good job of it in most cases. I like women and it comes across in my writing.

Actually in this case look at the history of these types of discussion.
The ironic thing is you'd think if I call out that they'll do it, it would stop them, but they wander in anyway.
And don't be giving away my salt, I need to stir it into the pot.
I have three Lesbian stories here, all first time type stories. I feel like I write like a guy trying to write as a lesbian, but the overwhelming consensus in comments is Not only do a good job but they address me as if I'm female.
So...either I underestimate myself, or....that category is full of men reading lesbian stories

 

[Maxiine]

1. Everything I have written...and I have many stories posted here concealed by alternate identities...a great idea BTW. Have one identity per genre or sub genre so those who detest BDSM for example don't bomb your Romance offerings...and another identity to comment...

Everything I write is based in reality: things that I have done, people I know, or stories I heard.

But when it makes a reader uncomfortable it is labeled "unrealistic."

2. "Audiences know what to expect, and that is all they are prepared to believe in." --the Player, ' Rozencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead ' (Tom Stoppard) In my experience this is particularly true of the majority of readers here at this site, where mixing genres is almost taboo in and of itself.

 

[Maxiine]

I have a story here where I write from the POV of a black female dominatrix from the rural south.

And just how do we know you are not really a black female dominatrix from the rural south...dipping your cat-of-nine-tails in a mint julep?

 

[LdyHoneybee]

LHB, write what you want, the way you want. You will find an audience here.

LC68 likes to stir the shit more often than not. Take what he says with a grain of salt.

I try my best to write good female characters. I've been told I do a good job of it in most cases. I like women and it comes across in my writing.

Holy cow! What a list! Ok

 

[lovecraft68]

And just how do we know you are not really a black female dominatrix from the rural south...dipping your cat-of-nine-tails in a mint julep?

Shit, you got me! Took years for someone to figure out I wasn't really an obnoxious dude from the East Coast.

 

[MsNatalie99]

I have a story here where I write from the POV of a black female dominatrix from the rural south.

Go big or go home.

Reading this made me think of Foxy Brown. (Whip cracks) "You've been a naughty boy, Sugar"

I tried to find an image to go with it, but the closest one to appropriate I found made me blush and find Jesus.

 

[lovecraft68]

Reading this made me think of Foxy Brown. (Whip cracks) "You've been a naughty boy, Sugar"

She could whip me any day.

 

[MsNatalie99]

She could whip me any day.

Lmao

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Many writers just aren't that good. Many other writers just prioritise action and plot over characterisation. Of the ones who write plausible characters, some of their characters will always seem implausible to some people (eg the contingent who refuse to believe in happy open marriages or the ones who don't believe a man and a woman can be just friends).

I actually find it odd that people read a character that doesn't convince them and conclude that the author can't do 'men' or 'women' rather than can't do 'upper middle class New Yorker' or 'virgin student who grew up in a small town and is now at a huge college', but there we go.

 

[TxRad]

Holy cow! What a list! Ok

I've been at it a while.

 

[jehoram]

Is this a hopeless situation? Do you think that men and women are so hopelessly different that neither can write realistic reactions for the other in the grip of sexual interaction? Are there writers anyone has found who do seem to get it, women who can write realistic men or men who can write realistic women in extremis?

I think there are a few women who get men. I edit for Athalia, and I find her stuff pretty realistic when it comes to writing male characters. As for me writing women's characters, I try my best, and have the advantage that she edits for me and will occasionally put a "Puh-leeze" notation where I've gone over the edge. So she acts as a reality check... something I rarely have to do with her writing.

But I don't have any illusions that the women in my stories are much like real ones. They are usually sexually available, like to call all the shots, have few jealousy hangups, and enjoy fucking as much as the men do. But these are tropes in erotic fiction, and that's my excuse.

 

[Comshaw]

Many writers just aren't that good. Many other writers just prioritise action and plot over characterisation. Of the ones who write plausible characters, some of their characters will always seem implausible to some people (eg the contingent who refuse to believe in happy open marriages or the ones who don't believe a man and a woman can be just friends).

I actually find it odd that people read a character that doesn't convince them and conclude that the author can't do 'men' or 'women' rather than can't do 'upper middle class New Yorker' or 'virgin student who grew up in a small town and is now at a huge college', but there we go.

As to the bolded part of your post, absolutely. To those people I pose these questions:
There have been approximately 113.1 BILLION people who have existed since recorded history began, there are approximately 7.9 BILLION people on earth now, approximately 332.7 MILLION people in this country alone, so why is that you do not believe that ANYTHING you can think of, as far as human relations and interaction, hasn't been done or tried by someone, somewhere?

Why do you not believe that it can happen, does exist, is viable, does work? Because you aren't of the same mental makeup, do not agree with it, would not do the same? Such a myopic, self-centered, ignorant view of the world that is.

As far as me and my efforts, I have no difficulty in writing male or female characters. In the vein of this discussion, the only thing that I cringe about, is a two-dimensional character. Even the walk on's, the supporting cast, should be as fleshed out as possible within their limited part of the story.

Comshaw

 

[LdyHoneybee]

Holy cow! What a list! Ok

Many writers just aren't that good. Many other writers just prioritise action and plot over characterisation. Of the ones who write plausible characters, some of their characters will always seem implausible to some people (eg the contingent who refuse to believe in happy open marriages or the ones who don't believe a man and a woman can be just friends).

I actually find it odd that people read a character that doesn't convince them and conclude that the author can't do 'men' or 'women' rather than can't do 'upper middle class New Yorker' or 'virgin student who grew up in a small town and is now at a huge college', but there we go.

You are talking about, I think, characterization and consistency to it. I think my concern is more general. Of course a virgin student would have different reactions than an experienced adult from anywhere.
I saw an old movie in my Hauer days called _Flesh and blood_ , kind of what the Middle Ages was really like. SPOILERS He played the leader of a brigand band who, in the first half hour, took the noble heroine who was engaged to an arranged noble groom captive for ransom and, with his band of guys spreading her legs for him to his groin level, matter of factly raped her as if they were all animals and she was in estrus. Then he walked off giving his men the run of her. later, he decided he liked her, claimed her back, and taught her in the bath they shared what a female orgasm was like. She was surprised but she liked it And took up with him Eventually. He presented as definitely male but aware enough of human reactions that, when he wanted to be liked, he knew what to do. I don’t remember the whole movie, but it was believable and in character I thought. They could have made him a true villain who thought that women REALLY enjoyed being raped if they wanted rather than “rape fantasies” but they didn’t. That example may help explain what I am trying to ask about.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

1. Everything I have written...and I have many stories posted here concealed by alternate identities...a great idea BTW. Have one identity per genre or sub genre so those who detest BDSM for example don't bomb your Romance offerings...and another identity to comment...

Everything I write is based in reality: things that I have done, people I know, or stories I heard.

But when it makes a reader uncomfortable it is labeled "unrealistic."

2. "Audiences know what to expect, and that is all they are prepared to believe in." --the Player, ' Rozencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead ' (Tom Stoppard) In my experience this is particularly true of the majority of readers here at this site, where mixing genres is almost taboo in and of itself.

Lol not “uncomfortable,” not the same as “unbelievable“ to me. “Uncomfortable” is “just move on To something you like.” “Unbelievable” is “huh?” You cannot predict who is going to be uncomfortable (oh well), but “unbelievable” is a writing error That I hope can be avoided. I am not comfortable with Oedipal issues for instance, BUT some people like it, I guess because their stories get published and read. That is okay, just not for me. I am not explaining very well.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

Lol not “uncomfortable,” not the same as “unbelievable“ to me. “Uncomfortable” is “just move on To something you like.” “Unbelievable” is “huh?” You cannot predict who is going to be uncomfortable (oh well), but “unbelievable” is a writing error That I hope can be avoided. I am not comfortable with Oedipal issues for instance, BUT some people like it, I guess because their stories get published and read. That is okay, just not for me. I am not explaining very well.

Thanks for the other advice. I will remember.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've been at it a while.

Cause you're old as fuck.