AD/HD - Why are good titles so hard to come by?

je404ucd

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ADHD - Why are good titles so hard to come by?

Okay, I moved this to its own thread because I did want to step on another Lit-erian's (?) toes.

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There is this doctor--Jonathan Scott Halverstadt--that believes the largest contributor to the divorce rate is that ADD (and all its other names) is vastly under-diagnosed.

Before I go any further, I want to define a few terms. Often I will use undiagnosed and diagnosed. Most of the time when I say ‘diagnose’ I also mean ‘medicated.’

Now some of you may wonder what a neurological disorder like ADD could have to contribute to divorce. Well... People who are ADD have a disorder in their prefrontal cortex. They have the same nerve cells as non-ADD people, that is to say there is that extremely small gap between each nerve cell that can only be crossed by a neurotransmitter. In most cases, the neurotransmitter used is dopamine (sp?) (pronounced 'dope-uh-mean'). People who are ADD don't produce the normal amount of dopamine; in fact they are extremely low on it.

Without dopamine, it is difficult to tie in past knowledge/experiences in with current sensory input. Thus contributing to 'impulsive' and 'irrational' behavior. Behavior is impulsive because with less input, there is less to consider thus making the already quick decision making skills of the brain into lightning fast. Irrational because it doesn't seem to be based on the way the world really is ("You can't just punch him! He kicked your ass last time too!").

Like I said before, ADD is a neurological disorder. That is to say, "A physical disorder that is located in the brain." This means it can be treated with medication (of course there are non-medication ways to treat it). Medication can supply artificial neurotransmitters to supplement the low levels of dopamine. While these medications are almost universally stimulants, the dosage is so low (ranging from 5 mg to 40 mg and in rare occasions 72 mg--of varying types... some are time release so you don't get it all at once) that no person would feel the 'stimulating' effect (which is why people who aren't ADD don't feel anything when they take it).

By now you are wondering, "What the hell, other than impulsive behavior, does ADD have to do with raising the divorce rate? So... people are impulsively getting divorced? So what?" Or something like that.

Well, like I said before, there is a way of medicating without medication. While normally dopamine is the neurotransmitter of choice, there are other neurotransmitters that are released in certain scenarios. Adrenaline and endorphins are such substitute transmitters. A study measuring the adrenaline in urine of children proved that the level in ADD children is significantly higher than in non-ADD. Which is why 1 in 6 people in prison are believed to be undiagnosed ADD. Undiagnosed ADD people (and even those that are diagnosed) tend to be more aggressive. Yes, the main way for a un-medicated ADD person to medicate is to seek external stimulation to get alternate neurotransmitters flowing in the front of his brain.

Now is a good time to introduce a new term called ‘hyperfocus.’ Hyperfocusing is when a person focuses on one thing so intently that they pretty much live, breath, eat, and exist for the object of their attention. It is always on their mind and they learn everything there is to know about the thing. ADD people often hyperfocus. Hyperfocusing makes an ADD person feel great from the stimulation of something new! But after a while the newness starts to wane. Often an ADD person is left wondering if they still like/enjoy the thing they were hyperfocused on. Many a relationship between an ADD and non-ADD person ended a few weeks in because the ADD person got scared that they messed up (they still like/love the person, but they feel indescribably ‘off’).

This ‘off’-ness isn’t the weird state of being for an ADD person. It is the default setting. Why? This ‘off’ feeling is the low neurotransmitter mode. And when an ADD person comes down from a stimulation high (especially one from another person) they go back to the uncomfortable state of being ‘normal’ for them. It is like test-driving an amazing car, forgetting it isn’t your car, and having to give it up at the end.

So now if you can pull the impulsive behavior, the stimulation hunt, and hyperfocusing it should be fairly obvious why many undiagnosed/un-medicated ADD people rush into things they shouldn’t. Like marriage. Then a day, week, or month later they lose the stimulation they got from hyperfocusing and they panic.

Don’t get me wrong; ADD isn’t all bad. People who are ADD are very adept at mastering a variety of things quickly. That guy you know that seems to know a lot about everything might be ADD. It really depends on whether a person is medicated or not. With medication you lose most of the bad (being the low neurotransmitter levels). The only disadvantage left behind is learned behavior.
A partial quotation from A.D.D. & Romance by Jonathan Scott Halverstadt
Say a person who is extremely far-sighted (without glasses) wanted to learn to sew. No matter how bad this person wanted to do it, he would never be able to get the thread through the head of the needle. Now, say the person got corrective lenses. He wouldn’t suddenly be able to sew, he would have to now learn to sew.
ADD is the same way. A person who becomes medicated won’t suddenly be able to act differently, but they are now capable of changing his behavior to act differently.

But what do I know? I was diagnosed in 2nd grade (age 7) with ADD, and I have been medicated ever since. I graduated from High School as valedictorian. I am now attending a California University, majoring in Computer Science and Engineering. I am on the Dean’s List.

I don’t want to go into too much more detail because I will inevitably mess up and say something wrong.

For more information, check out A.D.D. & Romance by Jonathan Scott Halverstadt. It should be in either the Relationship, Self Help, or Psychological Disorder section of your bookstore. Best book I’ve read about relationships, and I recommend it even for people who aren’t ADD and don’t have an ADD partner.

So I think the high divorce rate is directly correlated to the high rate of people rushing into a marriage they aren't ready for.

Changes from original:
1. Corrected one word mistake.
2. Remembered that in addition to Adrenaline, Endorphins are also used as an alternate neurotransmitter. This is why AD/HD people don't always pursue negative encounters (like arguments and fights).


P.S. The current "Politically Correct" term for this neurological disorder is "AD/HD." But I don't think anyone takes offense to "ADD." But other names are rude (those being hyperkinetic, organically driven, minimal brain dysfunction, etc.).
 
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curiousjen said:
i used to steal my brothers ritalin all the time and get high when i was bored.
How much did you take? If you took only 20 mg (which is what I used to take when I was like 10) then if you felt anything perhaps you too are ADD and your 'high' was just having your brain work right. The next likely cause is that you psyched yourself into a high. But anything is possible.

Note, 1 'white' pill (a really light blue... at least of the brand of Ritalin I used to take) was 10 mg. A yellow pill was 5 mg.

Technically you can take a lot of nightquill and get drunk because there is a little alcohol in it. It just takes a few packages of pills to accomplish it. Which is why some large chain super markets have a limit on the number of alcohol containing pills you can purchase in a single ring up--any minor can buy these nonprescription drugs.

Either way, it is a really bad idea to use someone else's medication. Even among ADD people, the medication that works best for one person might be different than what is best for someone else.

As to your brother's claim that the medication controls him... I think I know what he means. My mother (the only non-ADD person in my immediate family) used to (and sometimes still does) ask us, "Did you take your medication?" if we argue with her as if the only reason we would not see her way as right was because we were off our medication. It is extremely "rude."

I do not know your brother so I can't make an informed observation. But I can give some of my experiences. When I was really young I had a huge ego (still do ;) ) and part of it hated the fact that I had to take pills to work right. But the medication did give me enough control over myself that I could discipline myself. Even today, a lot of people don't believe that I am AD/HD because I am much more disciplined than pretty much everyone around me.

Jaded_Lily: ADD, AD/HD, "Hyperkinetic," "Organic Drivenness," "Minimal Brain Dysfunction," and a variety of other labels are all the same thing. ADD takes many forms. There are impulsive, inattentive, and combinations of both. The only thing they all have in common is the low production of dopamine and thus a reliance on other neurostimulants (adrenaline and endorphin) for synapse firing (the name given for having a signal cross the gap between nerve cells).

But you are right, being ADD (or AD/HD) doesn't mean you can't also possess another disability/disorder. Often neurological disorders can camoflague each other.

There was a guy at stanford who developed a physical test for ADD. It worked on a reverse principal. Those who aren't ADD are positive, but those who aren't have a negative. I don't know why it hasn't been brought to mainstream, but I think it is because it was either not cost effective (all the tests I've gone through have totalled to at least $3,000 so I guess it would have to be really expensive to not be viable) or it gave a significant number of 'false positives.'

****** Start of Rant ******

But it is just another demonstration of interdepenance. If it was a money issue that prevented the mainstreaming of this test method, it could be a good investment (along with medication). If 1 in 6 people in prison is ADD, then it is likely that future generations could avoid a similar fate by getting diagnosed and medicated so instead of becoming a burden on society's budget, they could contribute to the budget.

It would really come down to a few details.
1. Proving/refining the test so that it is easy to diagnose with.
2. Proving that the money spent to mainstream the test and to distribute the appropriate medication/therapy would equal to or less than the money saved by reducing the prison population (with prevention).

****** End of Rant ******
 
Just to be clear, if anyone has any questions about AD/HD or any other disability, feel free to ask. While I might know everything, I know where and who to ask.

Heck, even if your question is something as trival as "How do you make love to a woman in a wheelchair?", "How would a Speaking and Deaf person have a relationship?", or whatever... feel free to ask.

If you are too embarrassed to ask a question in post, feel free to ask via PM. I will quote (and edit out names) the original question and answer it.
 
My girlfriend has accused me of having ADD because she thinks I have a problem with paying attention to detail. My psychiatriast didn't get say anything about that but he didn't go into a whole lot of detail about what my medication (Seroquil) is supposed to treat. Now that you mention divorce she has two ex husbands and I've never been married so mabye sh's the one with ADD :)
 
How much did you take?

I can't really remember- I left home five years ago and really only took it a few times when I was around 14/15. I just felt really alert and like i could concentrate really well- i just remeber that it made watching films really intense. Maybe i did psyche myself into a high- especially at that age its really easy to do. As for the possibility that i might have ADD I don't think so because I'm so different to my brother you won't imagine. He's super quick and figity and talks to anyone about anything for hours -I'm rather slow brained and forgetful most of the time- and very shy- not like that at all :) I was diagnosed with bi polar in 01 and i've heard the two are quite related- but i have some scepticism about my diagnosis anyway- it all seems so arbitary.


Either way, it is a really bad idea to use someone else's medication.

I agree. I was young and stupid :)

My mother (the only non-ADD person in my immediate family) used to (and sometimes still does) ask us, "Did you take your medication?" if we argue with her as if the only reason we would not see her way as right was because we were off our medication. It is extremely "rude."

Right. My mum would do that all the time to him and it drove him barmy. I think you've hit the nail on the head why he won't take it anymore. He also feels like he "loves the chaos" that it makes him an individual and uniquely him. Go figure.

I always should have read books about ADD- my parents had enough of them- I just never got around to it!
 
bi-polar and both add and adhd are similar yet totally different, bipolar there is a chance of violent tendencies, that would be me.


what i want to know is what types of testing are done for bi-polar because i really think i need to be diagnosed better. i was diagnosed adhd at 5 yrs old and depression just shortly after i had my oldest son. but now i am starting to see the same things in my self as i see in my son who is bi-polar..


and is it true that all of the 3 are hereditary. i've heard they are, i've heard it's not, just need the confusion cleared up
 
I would like to reiterate that ADD, ADHD, and Hyperkinetic (etc.) are all the same thing.
The Gimp said:
My girlfriend has accused me of having ADD because she thinks I have a problem with paying attention to detail. My psychiatriast didn't get say anything about that but he didn't go into a whole lot of detail about what my medication (Seroquil) is supposed to treat. Now that you mention divorce she has two ex husbands and I've never been married so mabye sh's the one with ADD :)
Just because someone is a divorcee doesn't mean she is ADHD. I would suggest not making such a joke because it is likely to backlash at you (especially if she is indeed ADHD). ADHD people are a very defensive/offensive lot, and if she is someone that is important to you, then making that kind of jest could destory your relationship.

Relationships are built on more than love and need more than love. They require commitment and communication more. Which is why I believe true love--mature love if you will--is a conscious choice and not a feeling.

Curious Jen
Not everyone that is ADHD is hyper and fidgety. Many girls that are ADHD daydream a lot. Part of being ADHD is that you live a lot inside your own head.

Forgetfulness is also universal among ADHD people. At least the 'shoot, I forgot I was supposed to pick you up at 5 PM' forgetfulness.

A common trait of ADHD is to seem to be not all there. This is because of the multitasking trait of ADHD. So this 'not all there' symptom is actually just the person in question just thinking of other things at the same time.

I am more than capable of planning out the next week while participating in a complex conversation. Heck, I've carried two conversations in two different languages at once (one in English and another in American Sign Language).

Here is a site about Bi-polar disorders that I found using Google.

Jaded_Lily
The best advice I can give is to seek out a physician that keeps up to date with hidden disabilities and disorders. Especially one that attends seminars to learn more.

The greatest danger a professional physician can acquire is the idea that he or she is infaliable and/or that he or she learned everything he or she needed to know in school. A lot of these neurological disorders are only now started to be understood.

Much as I have found younger teachers to be more receptive to my condition, I would not be surprised to see younger doctors more eager to learn more about the things they do and don't diagnose people for.

p.s.: Hippie teachers also seem to be receptive. ;)
 
This is a real sore spot for me, so forgive me if I get a little snarky.

je404ucd, what makes you such an authority on disability in general? My god, you said
How would a Speaking and Deaf person have a relationship?
Are you not aware that there are deaf (and even Deaf) people who can speak? That what you are referring to is a hearing person and a deaf person?

Back to ADHD. I completely disagree with you. ADHD is not vastly underdiagnosed. As a matter of fact, it is widely overdiagnosed, because it is an easy excuse for parents who can't control their kids. It is also underdiagnosed to an extent, in that the people who truly need help can't get it. And while I am interested to see that adult ADHD is finally being recognized, it is also getting rapidly overdiagnosed. My coworkers are constantly saying "oooh, I think I have a little bid of ADD!" Never do they realize that I have been living with it my entire life. True ADHD is an honest to goodness disability. I have received Vocational Rehab services for my ADHD. I have been on medication for more than a decade (and diagnosed more than 15 years ago).

Like I said, this is a very sensitive subject for me. There are a lot of people parading around claiming to know everything about this when they do not have the facts backing them up.

P.S. The current "Politically Correct" term for this neurological disorder is "AD/HD." But I don't think anyone takes offense to "ADD." But other names are rude (those being hyperkinetic, organically driven, minimal brain dysfunction, etc.).
You're wrong. The current medically accurate term is ADHD. And yeah, I do take offense to ADD, because that's not an accurate name for what I have.
 
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je404ucd said:
There was a guy at stanford who developed a physical test for ADD. It worked on a reverse principal. Those who aren't ADD are positive, but those who aren't have a negative. I don't know why it hasn't been brought to mainstream, but I think it is because it was either not cost effective (all the tests I've gone through have totalled to at least $3,000 so I guess it would have to be really expensive to not be viable) or it gave a significant number of 'false positives.'
Any chance you can come up with his name? I'd love to hear more.

Again, sorry for being so snarky in the above post. I just get frustrated sometimes.
 
ADD - Attention Defecit Disorder

ADHD - Attention Defecit HyperActivity Disorder



yeah there is a difference, but some of the symptoms are alike. The only thing i am fed up with is when i am out in public with my 6 yr old who is bi-polar, and he acts up i get these looks like "gee she can't control her kid" or "all that kid needs is a good assbeating and he'll straighten up" news flash people i can control my kid, with meds, because he is a very violent child, and "a good ass beating is not gonna cure him of his disease" i really wish people would think before they open their mouths.

*rant over*
 
jaded_lily said:
ADD - Attention Defecit Disorder

ADHD - Attention Defecit HyperActivity Disorder

yeah there is a difference, but some of the symptoms are alike.
Actually, most current medical literature refers to them both as ADHD. There's ADHD: Inattentive Type, ADHD: Hyperactive Type, and ADHD: Combined Type.
 
All I know is this, I agree with Etoile that it is way overdiagnosed in children and that parenting skills should be the first place that doctors look when presented with children that act out.


As an adult who was recently diagnosed with True Hyperactivity, I can honestly say, don't mess with me until I have had my coffee in the morning.
 
There are always two groups of opinions on a topic.

In this case, there is one camp that thinks ADHD is over diagnosed. And then there is also a camp that thinks it is under diagnosed.

Claims range from believing "as much as 10% of Americans are ADHD, and that only 2% of THOSE are diagnosed (so .2% of Americans are diagnosed as ADHD)" to things like "only 1 in 3 people diagnosed as ADHD are actually ADHD" so until there is a fool proof test, people will keep arguing.

Etoile.
While I am a Speaking person, I am partially involved with the Deaf Community. And "Speaking people/person" is how people who can hear are literally called in ASL. And the only reason I mentioned that particular question is because it is of recent personal relevance. And I am well aware there are deaf people who can speak, but that is a fading trend that is starting to become only found among hard of hearing people (but most H-H people I've met around my age still learn ASL).

Am I an expert, heck no. At the same I do believe I am more informed than most people because I research it (both for my own good and so that I can take better care of myself). However, all my advice have been along the lines of, "Seek out an expert." I offer sources when I have them.

That test? It think it was a bunch of sensors on the heads of a bunch of kids to measure brain activity in different parts of the brain while they did things. It demonstrated the difference in brain activity... You know... there is a chance it might've been a Harvard study.

I think perhaps we should discuss how ADHD is diagnosed. Along with a minimum age (7), it also requires there to be family history supporting such a claim.

P.S.: It used to be a sore spot for me too. But then I learned about Disability Culture and Disability Pride. Now the only sore spot that remains is when people make negative broad statements about ADHD and other disabilities in general.

As to how I said "AD/HD," well I guess that is another throwback term. I think it went from ADD, to AD(H)D, to AD/HD, to ADHD... so forgive my usage.
 
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je404ucd said:
Etoile.
While I am a Speaking person, I am partially involved with the Deaf Community. And "Speaking people/person" is how people who can hear are literally called in ASL. And the only reason I mentioned that particular question is because it is of recent personal relevance. And I am well aware there are deaf people who can speak, but that is a fading trend that is starting to become only found among hard of hearing people (but most H-H people I've met around my age still learn ASL).

Am I an expert, heck no. At the same I do believe I am more informed than most people because I research it (both for my own good and so that I can take better care of myself).
No, "speaking" is not the correct gloss for that sign. (Were you aware that you are talking to an interpreter? It's in my profile. I'm pretty darn involved with the Deaf community.) The correct gloss for that sign is "hearing" even though it derives from and is related to the sign for speech. A deaf person is not saying "you can hear, therefore you are a speaking person" they are saying "YOU HEAR CAN, MEANS YOU HEARING".
(Those caps are not shouting, they're glossing.)

As for "most" HoH people our age (I'm slightly older than you) learning ASL, I wouldn't say that's accurate. Most deaf and hard of hearing people are oral, actually, because their parents are hearing and don't know enough about ASL to know that it's a viable option for their child. The percentage of the deaf population that is culturally and linguistically Deaf is actually quite small...I seem to remember a number close to 5%. (The only citation I have is from Canada, which is about the same.)

Feel free to point people to me if there are questions you can't answer. I promise I'm not normally so bitchy!


That test? It think it was a bunch of sensors on the heads of a bunch of kids to measure brain activity in different parts of the brain while they did things. It demonstrated the difference in brain activity... You know... there is a chance it might've been a Harvard study.

I think perhaps we should discuss how ADHD is diagnosed. Along with a minimum age (7), it also requires there to be family history supporting such a claim.

P.S.: It used to be a sore spot for me too. But then I learned about Disability Culture and Disability Pride. Now the only sore spot that remains is when people make negative broad statements about ADHD and other disabilities in general.
I agree that there should be family history involved in a diagnosis. My mother, when filling out the huge form that would help determine my diagnosis, realized "gee, a lot of these apply to me, too." My mom isn't medicated; she's...uh, 55? I think?...and feels she's gotten along well enough all these years without it, but she definitely has it. I agree with you on that point.

Can you explain to me how disability culture and disability pride (of which I am at least marginally aware, but more aware of related to Deaf culture of course) tie in to not being upset by vast mischaracterizations of ADHD? I'm not saying that's what you did, I'm just wondering how you managed to make it no longer a sore spot. How does disability culture or disability pride help you respond positively to people who speak without having the facts? (I'm thinking of those coworkers of mine...)
 
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It is always better to have multiple opinions and people confer with when talking about something.

Disability Culture is a growing movement to unite and empower people with disabilities. It has been estimated that Americans with Disabilties constitute about 19% of the population (of America).

Disability Pride is acknowledging that while we have disabilities, we don't let them determine our lives. It is also includes remembering the sacrifices made by our forerunners for the laws that we benefit from (like the ADA).

If you Google 'Disability Culture' you will be surprised with what you find. From laws every person with disabilities should know about to online dating services for people with disabilities.

But I guess just knowing that I am not alone and that I don't let my disabilities stop me from achieving makes me feel better. There are so many people that are miseducated about disabilities that if I let myself get worked up about it everytime it comes up, I would be angry all the time. So instead I just brush off the people that don't make an effort to learn (or be polite) as the ignorant people they are.
 
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je404ucd said:
If you Google 'Disability Culture' you will be surprised with what you find. From laws every person with disabilities should know about to online dating services for people with disabilities.
Yes indeed, thank you. I have done some work over in http://dmoz.org/Society/Disabled too so I'm familiar with those websites. :)

But I guess just knowing that I am not alone and that I don't let my disabilities stop me from achieving makes me feel better. There are so many people that are miseducated about disabilities that if I let myself get worked up about it everytime it comes up, I would be angry all the time. So instead I just brush off the people that don't make an effort to learn (or be polite) as the ignorant people they are.
I guess my problem is that I want to teach those people who don't know what they're talking about! If I could just ignore them it would be so much easier, but instead I get all angry and try to explain how they're wrong, etc. A major problem is that there are still a lot of professionals who don't understand ADHD, so it's hard to come up with a convincing argument. A disability like blindness is pretty cut and dried, but there's still so much debate over ADHD.
 
Well Etoile, as hard as it may be to accept, it is impossible to teach someone something if they don't want to listen.

Just educate yourself to the best you can. And in your spare time, try to come up with a concise response that will leave them speechless.
 
je404ucd said:
Well Etoile, as hard as it may be to accept, it is impossible to teach someone something if they don't want to listen.

Just educate yourself to the best you can. And in your spare time, try to come up with a concise response that will leave them speechless.
Yes, I'm already aware of that. Thank you. :)

I'm already very well educated about the topic (having studied it for about five years) but it's that concise response that eludes me. Do you have any suggestions?
 
For ADHD? Well, I have one source even if it is a bit dated (1998, but it isn't so specific as to really outdate itself).
A.D.D. & Romance, by Jonathan Scott Halverstadt, M.S., page 168
"People with ADD have been among the most creative people in the history of humankind. We know through their biographies that Edison, Bell, Einstein, Lincoln, and Churchill probably had ADD (though undiagnosed) and used their creativity--whether it was inventing technology or creating world politics--to change the course of history."
The chapter continues to talk about other positive attributes like Loyalty, Charisma, Empathy, Intuition, and Fun-Seeking.
 
That doesn't really explain what it is to people who don't know, though. I'm more interested in a concise way to explain why I have trouble holding down a job, why I need vocational rehab, what happens to me when I don't take my meds, etc. People don't understand that ADHD is a serious illness, and they don't understand that not everybody has it. That's what I want to explain. (Come to think of it, I guess I could say just that!)
 
Well if you want to make their eyes spin, you could try.

"People who are ADHD don't naturally produce enough dopamine in their prefrontal cortex for the synapses between nerves to fire and allow electrical impulses to travel through the brain."

That makes ADHD sound more like a 'mechanical'/physical disability (which it is as a "Neurological disorder"), rather than behavior disorder (which it isn't).

There are some really awesome things about being ADHD. Especially when it comes to sex (well... maybe not so much for males...).

By mentioning a few good things (but I would steer clear of the sexual perks) of ADHD-ness it will throw a person off-balance.

However, I think the best approach is to lead by example. Rather than lecture a person (which will often only make them dig in to the ground and be stubborn just to spite you) just be the kind of person you want people to believe a person with ADHD is.
 
I just realized that Etoile and I might be scaring people off. This thread is for dismissing misconceptions. Ignorance isn't something to be ashamed of (we are all born with it). If you have a question, ask.

It isn't ignorance that frustrates people, it is an unwillingness to learn and let go of myths that really bugs people.
 
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