Birth order and comparing yourself to family members for BDSM roles

This thread will try to collect some information concerning what role (if any) our birth order and family composition might have on our BDSM role. Apologies in advance for the semi-leading questions.

If you are not an only child, what is your birth order relative to your siblings? What roles (if any) apply to your siblings? What about your parents? If possible, think about your entire family and try to pick out the one who most likely shares your identified role. If lacking real information, feel free to speculate and make informed guesses.


Let me lead by example:

I am a dominant male who is the first-born child. I have a younger sister who I suspect is either submissive or simply "kinky". My parents are both the youngest child of multi-children families. My father is most likely vanilla and my mother is definitely vanilla. The most likely dominant in my extended family would be my paternal grandfather.

[Extra notes: I have never discussed BDSM with my family. I suspect my sister's role based on reasonable inferences from reading some of her poetry (oh my!). My father accidently saw one of my whips when helping me move and in my opinion reacted as a vanilla person. My mother is very easy to read as being vanilla. The only person who comes close to matching my intense personality was my paternal grandfather so I am guessing we might share the dominant role as well.]

I am curious about how posters to this forum compare to their family members. I promise to do summaries and statistics if enough people reply. As for personal theories, I suspect birth order might be a major factor in the nature vs. nurture debate.

Mr Blonde said:

This thread will try to collect some information concerning what role (if any) our birth order and family composition might have on our BDSM role. Apologies in advance for the semi-leading questions.

If you are not an only child, what is your birth order relative to your siblings? What roles (if any) apply to your siblings? What about your parents? If possible, think about your entire family and try to pick out the one who most likely shares your identified role. If lacking real information, feel free to speculate and make informed guesses.


Let me lead by example:

I am a dominant male who is the first-born child. I have a younger sister who I suspect is either submissive or simply "kinky". My parents are both the youngest child of multi-children families. My father is most likely vanilla and my mother is definitely vanilla. The most likely dominant in my extended family would be my paternal grandfather.

[Extra notes: I have never discussed BDSM with my family. I suspect my sister's role based on reasonable inferences from reading some of her poetry (oh my!). My father accidently saw one of my whips when helping me move and in my opinion reacted as a vanilla person. My mother is very easy to read as being vanilla. The only person who comes close to matching my intense personality was my paternal grandfather so I am guessing we might share the dominant role as well.]

I am curious about how posters to this forum compare to their family members. I promise to do summaries and statistics if enough people reply. As for personal theories, I suspect birth order might be a major factor in the nature vs. nurture debate.

Click to expand...

I am #3 of 4 children. I have one brother who is the only male so i feel he is in a class by himself so to speak so that would make me smack in the middle. I come from a family of Dominants. Father, mother, both sisters, and brother are dominant personalities and think im strange because im not. The one person who i relate to is my grandmother on my fathers side. She was sub, but a very strong sub. Raised in a family of 8 she was married at 16 to a man 20 yrs older, they eloped.....she did everything to serve him but kneel at his feet from what i can remember and was happiest when doing it. BTW there is a book called The Birth Order Book (not sure of author) thats pretty on the money about this kind of stuff. example: first borns expected to be leaders first born sons pushed harder to succeed then most....babies being trouble makers in the familiy...requiring alot of attention in the real world. When i read it i pretty much swore the person who wrote it studied my family.

Re: Re: Birth order and comparing yourself to family members for BDSM roles

I'm the eldest of two, but we all lived in subjegation to the whims of my mother, who chooses submissive partners, (and who was as "submissive" as myself, when she was my age.) All three of us were sub to my g-grand mother. This of course had little or nothing to do with BDSM - though i'm pretty sure there's been some dabbling. Anyhow our household was topsy turvy enough without it.

First born, one younger brother, 5 year age difference. Very different people. my brother is quite traditional.

Mother, first born of four. Father, only child. Very different people. I'm a pretty good mix of both of them.

None of my family is particularly or outrageously sexually kinked - I know because we talk about it through my orientation(s), which I am open about with my family.

If I had to choose Dominant and submissive roles for my non-kinked family, I would simply say that the women generally tend to be the core managers in one way or another. That could be labeled either way dependent on perspective I suppose. There are elements of D/s of course, but often not hugely defined, and rather "switchable" dependent on areas and periods of time examined. my father and step-mother would come closest, respectively, sub and Domme, but again because we talk openly I know they have never considered it a D/s relationship. They think more in terms of "talent" and "manager" - perspective!

I don't really like attaching those labels to my family. Like the classic heterosexual line when confronted with gays and lesbians - who's the man and who's the woman? Not to put down speculation and the sharing of possibilities or likenesses, just an explanation as I know they don't think of themselves in those terms. I do think D/s is clearly visible in nature and natures, but when we cross into BDSM, I tend to think about it in terms of conscious decision/acceptance and nurture.

Why exclude only children? In almost all ways, they are normally considered as having the same traits as first born children.

Well, I - ahem - am an only child, born to a mother who was first born and a father who was the exact middle child of 7 children. I have sub tendencies on occasion, but enjoy initiating a sexual encounter as often as I like being led into one. My parents? I've no idea. Yet, my mother by nature seems more submissive in general (she came from a dysfunctional family, however). My father was the typical "middle kid" but was also a born leader.

Not sure what that all tells you, though.

The birth order book doesn't exactly fit my family, but I have middle brother with special needs and our ages are spread apart, so some things don't fit.

My oldest sister is dominant - over everyone. She would tell my mother what to do (even at 8 years old) and then mom would make the rest of the family do it. She's married to a baby of the family and she runs her household.

I am the baby of the family and am told I still play the part around my family. but I wasn;t a trouble maker,I was a perfectionist, I always did what I was told and cried if I did something wrong. I almost took on the role of a pet and rarely would ask for something unless I really needed it and not always then.

After growing up and a little counseling I've learned the it's ok to be selfish at times and I don't have to be perfect, But I still try to be.
I choose submissive because I like taking care of my husband, however on occasion I've been known to ask, "Are you Sure?" and once or twice, I yelled "Damn it do it NOW!", And truthfully I was taking care of him then too.

In my very limited experience, most submissives have been the middle or youngest children, Have others see that also?

Oldest of Five.

I am the oldest of five. Three sisters followed lastly by a brother. (I am taking a general view here becuase of one detail that although is different doesnt change the dynamics as described.)

The first 3 are close together, the last two strung out there. I took care of my sisters. The 2 sisters immediately following me are very independant. The 3rd sister is independant but feminine. She is softer and kinder although she can defend herself.

We had a unigue situation that i know of. The two side of the family did not care for each other and we had to be stronger because of it.

I will go against the younger two any time. The older two I pick my battles. But recently I really had to knock heads with the older one over how she was criticizing my family. She could have stated her feelings better rather then attacking. Unfortunately, she turned out to be correct.

I would say the oldest three are about equal though I tend to watch out for them. Although, we are all strong willed.

I think we are as we are because of the three families, in regards to cousines, we were the youngest and had to fight to be heard.

1st born. I have a brother 2 years younger. He also has special needs. As a result our upbringing was a little different and neither one of us really fit the typical profile of our birth orders.

Mom is a very typical first born. I doubt she has a kinky bone in her body - she's waaaaaaay to uptight for that. I don't really see her as submissive or dominant, personality wise. Now, her mom is definetely dominant and her dad was very passive.

Dad is the youngest of three in a family where all the kids were expected to be high achievers. He's gained international respect in his field and has a prominant position where he works. My dad is very much an "alpha-male." Both of his parents had very strong personalities and I would be hard pressed to label either.

I am most like my father in terms of temperment, though I am not nearly as driven.


*edited for spelling*

Only.

Mom was a middle, and passive, likely a little kink in there in a submissive way.

Dad wasn't there.

I'm firstborn and submissive; my younger brother, 3 years beneath me, is such a Dom in a funny way. He'll demand that I make him a sandwich or he'll slap me, and he'll be joking, but it cracks me up because he has NO idea how close that strikes to home. I predict he'll be drawn to the psychological side of Dee Ess in his experimental years, probably out of a combined "countering insecurity with an overblown role in the relationship" with "I'll be in control so you don't have the power to hurt me" as well as "you'll do what I say because that's pretty damn convenient for me." He's an awesome kid, despite my rather pessimistic prediction, and I'll love to see what happens when he grows up.

T is an only child, dominant, and I can easily see how being an only child in his particular family lent itself to his proclivities. They let him do what he wanted, took care of business for him; it was kind of a transfer. However, I think it's been a huge step in his growth as an independent person as well, and that's why I have so much hope for my brother. It's a damned fine learning experience.

I am first born of three girls. I basically was the mother from a very young age, taking a lot of responsibility even before my sisters were born, and eventually took custody of them from my mom. My middle sister is probably very kinky, but more out of a desire for attention, any attention, that she can get from a guy. Kinda like, "If you will pay attention to me, I will do whatever you want" kinda thing.

My youngest sister is the most like me; though she may get into trouble, which I never did, she accepts responsibilty for her actions and learns from her mistakes (we can't get our middle sister to admit she has ever made a mistake in her life). I know from talking to her that she is not really into kink, but also would not mind playing around some.

If she were to be into kink, I am positive she would be a ball busting Domme, as she is already a ball-busting 'nilla chick. I shudder to think what she will be like in 10 years.

My mother is codependent, and a complete freaking doormat where men are concerned. I don't know if she is into bdsm or not, nor do I want to, but she chooses men who are abusive, and then she stays with them, so I guess if she is, she would be the sub in the relationship. She is somewhere in the middle of 7 kids.

I have never lived with my dad, but I have a pretty good relationship with him now that I am allowed to; he gives off 'nilla vibes like you would not believe, but then again, I probably do too. Knowing my stepmom and how assertive she is, and how wimpy my dad is most times, I would guess that if they play that way, she gets the whip. My dad is the oldest of 2 kids.

I have no idea about the birth order of my grandparents.

My uncle on my mom's side, I am pretty sure is a Dom, just because of a conversation we had once, and a web site he recommended to me.

I am an only child. In all areas of my life (especially work and marriage) I am amazingly dominant, but sexually I label myself submissive, which is the role I desire most.

My mother was the youngest of 2 (had an older brother). Uncle is VERY Dominant..overtly so, and dear mom is hard to label...if I had to pick, it would be sub, but with some of her manic espisodes she can be quite aggressive and dominant.

Dad is the oldest of 3...he would be switch possibly if I had to say...very adventurous sexually with very little care for labels or boundaries.

My hubby...youngest of 2 with a VERY dominant older brother... he completely NON-DOminant as a result...submissive, low LOW esteem.

Birth Order & Sex Roles

I have thought a lot about this concept also. I think birth order also has a lot to do with orientation (i.e. gay vs. straight vs. other). I think there is also some physiological evidence that indicates that sex hormones produced during a woman's pregnancy can have an effect on subsequent fetuses. I.e. If the first born is a boy, there are residual male hormones in the uterus that can have a "masculinizing" effect on a second born girl. Of course, all this was done on lab rats, etc, so who knows what the effect is on humans.
Also, I think the younger male sibling gets picked on, bullied, and dominated by older male siblings, and that gets them used to the submissive and/or homosexual role. (I realize this is all terribly politically incorrect! Also it would imply that every kid brother in the world would be a raving fruitcake, since what big brother doesn't pick on his little brother at every available opportunity?)
I have an older brother (completely straight) and a younger brother (completely gay). I am basically straight but not completely!
Fascinating topic! It will be interesting to hear other people's comments. Ancecdotal evidence is evidence nevertheless...

I am the oldest of five siblings. Socially I am not dominant and not submissive, except to the most alpha of alpha males. I am 30, a switchy kinkster, married to an alpha male, and have a girlfriend whom I enjoy topping.

My next-youngest sister is 23 and is what I consider to be a born ultra-submissive. She is very shy & passive, and will happily give over all responsibility and decision-making to others. She is religious, and is hoping for a very traditional marriage in which she will have a subordinate role.

My 20-year-old sister is very driven and competitive, and I can see her in a dominant role.

My brothers are only 16 and 11, and I haven't seen in either of them any traits of dominance or submission.

My parents are religious and have a traditional marriage, and my mother is very submissive, and my father dominant, in that sense.

My family doesn't seem to fit into the birth-order theories. My parents are both so freaking repressed that I wouldn't dare guess about their roles (the closest they ever came to having "the talk" with me was them telling me to find someone who loved me ... and I was 22 before they even got that far) - and in day to day life, they shared the responsibilities of raising us pretty evenly, so there are no clues there either. Dad was the oldest of three, and mom was the younger of two ... no real clues there.

As for my two brothers and myself - I would guess that the oldest of us is very nilla, knowing him and his wife ... they might switch sometimes - role-play and the like, but that's about it. My other brother (middle child) ... hmm...... I'd probably put him as switch to Dom - I know he's kinky, and I'm sure that he's not sub, but I can't really see him as full-time dominant either ... And well, you should be able to figure out from my screen name alone that I, the baby of the family (and not just my immediate family - I was the youngest in the extended family for about 10 years until my older cousins started having children), am dominant and quite happy that way. I will admit that I was a trouble maker, and I used my 'youngest' status to get my way a number of times, but overall, I was a pretty well-behaved child (not the ill-tempered, spoiled rotten little brat that is the stereotyped baby of the family).

One person sent me their answers privately. Here is the early tally:

Only child
SexyChele - submissive
Netzach - dominant
InnerDarkness - submissive
Quint's partner - dominant

Oldest child
Mr Blonde - dominant
Anonymous - dominant
evesdream - submissive
lark sparrow - submissive
Tiger Claw - dominant
redelicious - submissive
Quint - submissive
niteshade - submissive
QueenBee - switch

Middle child
Kajira Callista (3rd of 4) - submissive
Master Jim (2nd of 3) - dominant

Youngest child
emme - submissive
SweetDommes - dominant

Apologies for the gross over-simplifications and please correct any mistakes.

Who was strongest personalities in household as you grew up? (Yes, this question might be fucked up and have many mistakes because it departs from what was asked.)

Mr Blonde - he was strongest
Anonymous - this person had to be strong at early age
Kajira Callista - everyone else was stronger
evesdream - mom was strongest
lark sparrow - women were strongest
SexyChele - father was strongest (somewhat)
emme - oldest sister was strongest
TigerClaw - all of them were strong willed
redelicious - dad was alpha-male
Netzach - not clear
Quint - not clear
niteshade - she was strongest
InnerDarkness - not clear
Master Jim - not clear
QueenBee - father was strongest
SweetDommes - not clear

Totally interesting, Mr. Blonde! Funny how things appear to be evenly split. Also how subs seem to be in the (slight) majority as First Borns.


Oh, and yes, my father was the strongest, but my mother was - and still is - manipulative in many ways.

strongest person in early childhood household, I can't decide if it was me or my Grandmother.

fifth of six

HI,

What an interesting set of questions.

I am the fifth child in a family of six. The most dominant person in my family was my father. He ruled with an iron fist in a silk glove, as did his father. My father was the third eldest in his family, and the second eldest boy of six children. He was a golden gloves boxer in the armed forces when he was younger and learned to box as a small child with his siblings, yep girls too!

Our paternal grandfather sorted his children's bickering out by marking out a ring in the yard and the children had to bareknuckle box until one could not rise. He abandonned his children in isolated places, sometimes for weeks, as punishment. He considered his wife and his children to be his property and treated them as such. He was truly the cruellest person I have ever known.

My mother was very submissive to my father but very dominant in a manipulative way as well as physically, over us children. My mother was the youngest child of five raised in a single parent family and orphaned at nine. I know nothing about her parents.

My eldest sister was submissive until she reached thirty and is now a very dominant person with an extremely submissive husband. She has become very masculine in the way she carries herself and in her manner of dress. She is not interested in any kind of mind game and has chosen to be sexually as vanilla as she can get in her words "I just want sex when I want it, I dont want a freakin circus act."

My eldest brother is second in the family and is dominant in a personaly powerful way and no one likes to earn his disappointment, if proven wrong he wil gracefully accept his error and adjust his thinking for the future, however he is nearly always right about everything. He is not into mind games and is a quiet listener with few words to say but his few words are never wasted. He is the only dominant in the family who deserves the title of dominant and the only one unlikely to ever delight in the title. He is not into bdsm.

the third in the family is savage mentally, emotionally and physically to anyone who ticks her off. She goes for maximum damage at all times and yet she was a submissive by trade! From conversations with her I would guess she chose submissiveness during her prostitution years because she enjoyed 'topping from the bottom'.

the fourth in the family is the dreamer and idealist. She is similar to our mother in that she is dominant to the extreme over her children and submissive to her husband.

I am the fifth and although a great deal of my life requires me to be dominant I am a submissive.

As we reached adulthood my younger brother, the baby of he family dominated my mother and attempted to dominate everyone else but he had no personal power or emotional strength and couldn't carry it off. He was very pissed off that our eldest brother had so much power and yet he (the younger) was physically larger and better educated. He is most likely to be involved in bdsm as a sadist. He truly does enjoy others pain.

When in relationship with an eldest brother I am at my happiest, possibly because during my formative years my eldest brother who is quite dominant was my personal hero.


EWG

I am number 5 out of 6 and switch.

Eldest girl very dominant bi
Eldest boy dominant to an extent straight
3rd child boy very very dominant very very straight
4th child boy dominant gay
5th child me Bi switch
6th child girl sub straight

make what you will!

My mother was dominant, like her father. My father sub like his father.

SexyChele:
"Why exclude only children? In almost all ways, they are normally considered as having the same traits as first born children."

That's it SexyChele, rage against the machine! I will stand tall with you in your opposition to the siblingarchy.

First born, dominant.

Mother was oldest of 2 sisters and she is passive, if not submissive, though I'd shudder to even wonder if that is true in the bedroom as well.

Father, younger of 2 children. He has an older sister though they have had no contact since he was quite young. I think I'd have to say he is dominant, but that might only be because he has to be. Again, I've no idea about bedroom activities (thankfully).

My younger sister is a dom without a doubt. She has been dominant in everything she has done since she was like 3. I can't imagine how her husband lives with her, unless he's into that kinda thing

Really, I don't think birth order has much to do with if we're dom/sub/vanilla. Anything decided here on such a small sample really couldn't be relied on.

Birth Order & Sex Roles - Again...

Mr. Blonde has certainly picked an interesting topic, judging by the number (and length and depth) of the responses! Just one more thought, to make things even murkier: Most of us don't really know much about the SEXUAL roles our parents & siblings play, we only know their roles in day-to-day or public life. Many times our sexual persona is a 180 degree flip from our outward life. We are probably all aware that there are manly, take-control men who in their spare time go to a dominatrix to be tied up, spanked, humiliated, etc. Likewise a ball-busting bitch in the office may have a boyfirend on the side who slaps her around and play-rapes her. I speak from some considerable personal experience on this! Hopefully, most of us remain ignorant of the details of what goes on behind the close bedroom doors of our parents & siblings, so I think we will have to speculate a lot.
Nevertheless, this remains a fascinating topic! Great input from fellow literoticans!

The youngest of a multi-children Catholic family.

Submissive with the occasional urge to be on top or control from the bottom.

Parents - they were too prude to guess, neither stands out as D/s that I can see.

Sibs - no idea though I could imagine the youngest brother to have some dominant qualities.