"why do gay men get more discrimination than lesbians?"

Well? Answers, please.

straight men find the idea of seeing two women together sexually arousing.

what he said

and if you read my thread i just started on here maybe it also has something to do with the fact that straight women are able to understand being attracted to other women better

(although some women can be just as homophobic as men can be)

Yep. It's men's faults.

well it is!!

There are just some people who think that homosexuality de-masculinizes men. However, two good looking women together seems, for lack of better term, more feminine than feminine.

Now, I will say one thing- are there people who TRULY like to watch two lesbians go at it, a TRADITIONAL lesbian couple? (One the bitch and the other the butch?). I think it only applies to very attractive, good-looking feminine women.

Lesbians aren't threatening to men, because mainstream belief is there is no penetration involved.

Because fat rich white men think lesbians are sexy.

MysteryWhiteGirl said:

There are just some people who think that homosexuality de-masculinizes men. However, two good looking women together seems, for lack of better term, more feminine than feminine.

Now, I will say one thing- are there people who TRULY like to watch two lesbians go at it, a TRADITIONAL lesbian couple? (One the bitch and the other the butch?). I think it only applies to very attractive, good-looking feminine women.

Click to expand...

Personally, I've always thought lesbian sex as boring as hell, but that's just me. But maybe "real" lesbian sex might be more exciting. I don't know about that.

I think there's something to what you say: more feminine than feminine.


Glam:
straight men find the idea of seeing two women together sexually arousing. That may be the case, but why all the hatred toward gay men?

were better looking.

I heard something about gays compromising male masculinity. Lesbians do not.

MysteryWhiteGirl said:

There are just some people who think that homosexuality de-masculinizes men. However, two good looking women together seems, for lack of better term, more feminine than feminine.

Now, I will say one thing- are there people who TRULY like to watch two lesbians go at it, a TRADITIONAL lesbian couple? (One the bitch and the other the butch?). I think it only applies to very attractive, good-looking feminine women.

Click to expand...

Hm, traditional lesbian couple, eh? Since I AM a lesbian... I have come to find that there is no traditional couple... only what other people out there see. I know all sorts of lesbians, and they don't strive to get with one or the other type... it's just the matter of the person. At least in St.Louis it's that way. I see butch with butch, femme with femme... and so forth. And what is a "bitch" anyway? Never heard that term for a femme woman before. Sort of mean, isn't it?

glamorilla said:

straight men find the idea of seeing two women together sexually arousing.

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That is so fucking hot!

MaddyBaby said:

Hm, traditional lesbian couple, eh? Since I AM a lesbian... I have come to find that there is no traditional couple... only what other people out there see. I know all sorts of lesbians, and they don't strive to get with one or the other type... it's just the matter of the person. At least in St.Louis it's that way. I see butch with butch, femme with femme... and so forth. And what is a "bitch" anyway? Never heard that term for a femme woman before. Sort of mean, isn't it?

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Oh Lord... I didn't mean it that way... <blushes> Okay, backpeddal...

I'm bisexual myself, and I know a lot of girls who "think" they're bi and even some who have gone so far as to say they were "lesbian", but only in theory for a few months until they saw a guy they were attracted to and remembered, "Oh, wait, no I'm not." I consider a lot of them "social bi's", who kind of make a SHOW of making out with other women, booty dancing with them, etc.

I consider it the same as any other couple, really... if the couple is a good looking couple (both people are attractive), people will think it's sexy that they're together. If not, they wouldn't fantasize about watching. Men are better able to handle thinking of women together because they've seen the threesomes in pornos with good looking women, or if they see two lesibans, they think "Oooh, maybe they'll let me join in!"

With gay males, many people tend to think that demasculinizes the man. I personally REALLY get turned on by gay and bi men. I have a sizeable collection of gay and lesbian porn along with my straight stuff.

So I kind of (actually REALLY) stuck my foot in my mouth there. As for the "bitch" and "butch" thing, that's what I've always used to discern between the "masculine" partner and the "feminine" partner.

If I offended you, Maddy, I apologize. I really didn't state that right.

No big thing, MWG. Lots of people have their own terms for things.... but you might want to rethink what you say sometimes, dear.

But hey, no hard feelings... we all do it. LOL

glamorilla said:

were better looking.

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lol. I'm telling you, that's a MYTH, glam.



Well, maybe gay men do take better care of themselves...

White girl don't think I'm about to pick on you because I'm not. What you said just made me think of something I notice all the time.

Why do straight people tend to need to make gay couples...more hetero? One must be top or, the "man" and the other bottom or the "woman".

In reality it doesn't work that way. Most gay couples I know don't play traditional hetero games. In both male and female couples I see femme with femme and butch with butch more often than not and even when that isn't the case it's still not so clear cut.

Gay people don't have traditional hetero sex, so why would people subject them to traditional hetero sexual roles?

I have no idea if that came out right, I'm a bit tired. LOL

Good explanation, Sunny. I like you. And you are very correct about the information you have stated.

I have been in a few relationships... and neither one of us were butch, femme, or whatever... we were just who we were.

Thanks Maddy! The more I see you the more I like you.

Plus you look like my sister-in-law with short hair and she rocks. LOL

sunstruck said:

White girl don't think I'm about to pick on you because I'm not. What you said just made me think of something I notice all the time.

Why do straight people tend to need to make gay couples...more hetero? One must be top or, the "man" and the other bottom or the "woman".

In reality it doesn't work that way. Most gay couples I know don't play traditional hetero games. In both male and female couples I see femme with femme and butch with butch more often than not and even when that isn't the case it's still not so clear cut.

Gay people don't have traditional hetero sex, so why would people subject them to traditional hetero sexual roles?

I have no idea if that came out right, I'm a bit tired. LOL

Click to expand...

It's just something I've always noticed. I know only what I'VE personally encountered as far as the "gay scene" down here (and it's Mississippi, so pardon me if I sound like I live in the dark ages or whatever- I really have no idea what is considered faux pas when addressing gay or lesbian couples)... some of my best friends are very feminine gay men, and their boyfriends are always more "male" acting, I guess. With women, I always notice one very feminine partner, and then a girl with very short hair who dresses very masculine, etc. That's why I've always grown up with a distinction... but really, I don't think that's how it necessarily SHOULD be. I, myself, am very feminine, and I like very feminine women, myself.

As I said, I did not mean to put my foot in my mouth. Blame it on my roots, I dunno- I've grown up in the South, so I'm not sure what's considered offensive in other parts of the country where the attitudes may be more liberal. Myself, I'm all for people loving who they love, fucking who they want to fuck (provided the ages are appropriate).

Sandia said:

lol. I'm telling you, that's a MYTH, glam.



Well, maybe gay men do take better care of themselves...

Click to expand...

but im really cute.

I think that we all have some homosexual tendencies/curiosities.

I remember from psych 101 in college that it is a natural progression as we grow up. Not in a dramatic way, and perhaps not something that is acted on, but we do go through that phase - girls get crushes on other girls, and boys do the same... a bit differently for each gender, but there it is.

It's not as easy to see what the masculine role is in today's world. We expect men to nurture their children to a far greater degree and in different ways than ever before. Women take on more of the traditional male roles, such as working to help support the family.

I have to wonder if this is the basis for much of the homophobic feelings that some men have. Even men who may be somewhat bi-curious often will say things like "I wonder what it's like to suck cock... NOT that I'm gay or anything... They have to add that disclaimer.

This is the problem many have with civil unions. Man = husband. And that doesn't leave room for same-sex couples.

Maybe that's too simplistic, but that's what I think.

It is strange that gay men are discriminated against more than lesbians.

The first thing to consider is this: who is discriminating. Do women find lesbians threatening? I think that men often find gay men more threatening.

Of course, I'm not sure that threatening would be the right word.

For me, I find that I am repulsed much more by the idea of kissing another man than in having sex with a man. I'm not sure why.
I think it has something to do with identification.

Logically speaking, I should consider the fact that lesbian women are effectively competition--while gay men are removing the competition. So, logically, I should have a greater sense of rivalry with lesbian encounters. In fact, I do find watching lesbian encounters in pornography a little unsettling.

But if I psychologically identify with one of the women, then I find it arousing. A lesbian essentially has the the similar orientation to a hetero male--toward women.

A gay male, however, has a similar orientation as a hetero female--toward men. Naturally, since I'm not particularly sexually attracted to men, I don't especially enjoy mentally identifying myself as a participant in gay porn.

On the other hand, with G/L couples that I know, I really don't spend any more time visualizing them having sex than I visualize my parents having sex. So as long as they aren't tongue kissing in my presence, I really don't care what their orientation is--realistically speaking. An affectionate hand on the thigh or a peck on the cheek need not be particularly sexually charged--and it rarely is, in public.

"Why do gay men get more discrimination than lesbians?"

Outside of the high profile hate incidents, I believe discrimination against lesbians is about as bad as it is for gay men. Discrimination occurs in so many ways. Many times it is very subtle. Usually it is not the incidents that you see making headlines.

I do believe bisexual men are ostracize more than bisexual women though. For many men, it's cool for a chick to be bisexual because they feel they can still score with them, and possibly with her girlfriend as well. But the discrimination is still there even for bisexuals. When the new GLBT forum was set up, it was interesting to read some of the posts here, things like "are we going to have less girly loving in the GB", etc.

The worst of it comes from people you thought were your friends, especially when they figure out or suspect that you are not straight. It comes in the form of exclusion from things that otherwise they wouldn't, because of an irrational fear that I'll try to seduce them, or they will be seen as a lesbian/bisexual for hanging out with me. You learn who your real friends are very fast.