question about under-aged rejections

Hey all. So my first story was rejected for possibly containing under-aged sexual situations, but there are a couple of possibilities here, and I'm not sure what might have caused it to be declined. I also now feel like a pervert .

All my characters in the story that engage in sex are 18 or older, but this is not explicitly stated. Instead I described the characters as "old enough". Also, there is a scene where a young girl listens to her mother have sex. This girl is certainly under-aged, but does not participate in any way. Her presence outside the door affects her mothers thoughts during the scene.

Which of these two possibilities could cause the story to be declined? Should I change both just to be on the safe side?

Pen_Dragon said:

Hey all. So my first story was rejected for possibly containing under-aged sexual situations, but there are a couple of possibilities here, and I'm not sure what might have caused it to be declined. I also now feel like a pervert .

All my characters in the story that engage in sex are 18 or older, but this is not explicitly stated. Instead I described the characters as "old enough". Also, there is a scene where a young girl listens to her mother have sex. This girl is certainly under-aged, but does not participate in any way. Her presence outside the door affects her mothers thoughts during the scene.

Which of these two possibilities could cause the story to be declined? Should I change both just to be on the safe side?

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prob the one in red... it has a minor involved in ANY way...
Mine got rejected too... but I posted it in me "talk2Stegral" thread... if you can find it in there

They need an explicit statement that all is above the magic age. It's not important why, actually.

They're a market, dude, like any other market for one's work. They have their squicks, that is, their points of 'thus far, no further.' You as an author may accept this, make the changes needed, and publish here. You may equally decide to retain the story as is, and try elsewhere.

We who publish here have learned to appreciate the reasons for their policy, but in the end, they are the market. You will find a whole lot of much less understandable squicks out there, if you send your work to outlets for publication. Just make your decision, is all.

Wow. Thanks for your exceptionally fast response!

I'm kinda worried though, because several later parts of the story depend upon the girl knowing about her mother's actions.

If I were to place her in a different location, such as having her go for a walk and reflecting on her mother's actions, would that be okay? I wouldn't have any sexual thoughts going on in the girl's head, just a vague understanding that her mother is committing adultry.

Oh, you'll find you can retain the scene, so long as you state the girl's age as eighteen.

Seriously.

cantdog said:

They need an explicit statement that all is above the magic age. It's not important why, actually.

They're a market, dude, like any other market for one's work. They have their squicks, that is, their points of 'thus far, no further.' You as an author may accept this, make the changes needed, and publish here. You may equally decide to retain the story as is, and try elsewhere.

We who publish here have learned to appreciate the reasons for their policy, but in the end, they are the market. You will find a whole lot of much less understandable squicks out there, if you send your work to outlets for publication. Just make your decision, is all.

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Thanks, but I was only looking for an explanation of what squicks I had violated so I could adjust it accordingly.

You believe it was rejected for a different reason then Stegral, so maybe I should just edit both.

cantdog said:

Oh, you'll find you can retain the scene, so long as you state the girl's age as eighteen.

Seriously.

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The girl is not 18, and she cannot be made 18 in the context of the story. I have to do it a different way.

Yeah. But if you just write it in, it'll work.

All the same, I am applauding that you stick to your guns, here. Integrity is important; more so than getting a story up.

I ended up burying my story which struck this barrier. Too much integrity. But I wrote many more. I wish you luck.

If you can downplay the connection to the minor during the sex scene, it may be passable.

For one thing, the mother doesn't have to know there is anyone out there to believe it. This could result in the same thought process.

Stay out of the minor's head, and never actually "show" her during the scene.

If it's possible to do this, you may be able to get it through, without destroying the integrity of what must be an integral scene. No way of knowing for sure, without seeing the whole of the work and how integral the minor's actual knowledge is to the story, but give it some thought.

Darkniciad said:

If you can downplay the connection to the minor during the sex scene, it may be passable.

For one thing, the mother doesn't have to know there is anyone out there to believe it. This could result in the same thought process.

Stay out of the minor's head, and never actually "show" her during the scene.

If it's possible to do this, you may be able to get it through, without destroying the integrity of what must be an integral scene. No way of knowing for sure, without seeing the whole of the work and how integral the minor's actual knowledge is to the story, but give it some thought.

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Well, the minor's knowledge that something is wrong is very integral to the story; but I think I can show that she knows something's up without directly linking her to the scene.

Thanks again for your help

Pen_Dragon said:

there is a scene where a young girl listens to her mother have sex. This girl is certainly under-aged, but does not participate in any way. Her presence outside the door affects her mothers thoughts during the scene.
...
several later parts of the story depend upon the girl knowing about her mother's actions.

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Your problem is that you have an underage "participant" (as a voyeur) in an explicit sexual scene.

You can have children in your stories aware of adult sexual activity you just can't be explicit about how they become aware of the adult sexual activity.

More importantly, you can't be explicit about either the child becoming aroused or an adult becoming aroused because of the child's presence (or even possible presence.)

You can describe a child covering their ears or throwing shoes at the wall 'cause the 'rents are enjoying themselves too loudly but you cannot describe what's causing the noise or describe the child being aroused by the noise.

You can even let the child embarass the adult about the noise or open door at breakfast as long as the child is neither explicit nor aroused. (they can be blunt and anglo-saxon about the confrontation, just not explicit.)

The key to underage characters here at Lit is NON-graphic, NON-Explicit and NON-aroused -- even in flashbacks.

Listen to Weird; he always knows, even when he doesn't. Seriously, dude.

cantdog said:

Listen to Weird; he always knows, even when he doesn't. Seriously, dude.

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In the rare case he doesn't, he seems wise enough to know what he doesn't know.

Seriously, Weird always says what I would intend to say, but much better!

cantdog said:

Listen to Weird; he always knows, even when he doesn't. Seriously, dude.

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Totally, dude, Weird's Da Man. *nods*

You might also try simply putting a disclaimer at the top of the story making it perfectly clear that there everyone in the story who's involved in sex is above age. It's a very good C.Y.A. manuver, babe.

less detail is the answer

I got around the under-age thing by keeping the sex at arms length from the underaged person.
This is taken from my story evolution pt 5.

" One day he was walking home as he walked he held his hand out with his thumb up. Just in case somebody who knew him would know he wanted a ride. A big blue car pulled up next to him and a nice looking man bent across the seat to open the door for him.
“I’m not going far, just to the interstate, but you are welcome to ride.”
Jamie looked inside the car and saw a middle- aged man in a gray suit. The guy had a friendly smile on his face and the air in the car was nice and cool. He decided that he wanted this ride and slid into the car.
“Where are you off to on such a hot day?” As the stranger spoke to the boy his eyes traveled over his body. Jamie felt an electric charge in the air, He felt little stirrings on the skin on the back of his neck, like flies walking. Jamie was also aware of his dick getting hard. Worst yet because it was so hot he had worn a fairly short pair of shorts. They were old, he had really outgrown them but he liked them and hated to throw them away. Today they framed his dick plain as day as it grew along his leg. The stranger noticed it to and to Jamie’s surprise said,
“You seem to have a problem there, is there something that I can do to help you out.” As he spoke the stranger reached across the seat.

When they got to Jamie’s house the guy pulled to the side of the road. He made a big production of reaching for his wallet. He flashed his cash as he thumbed through his money looking for and finding a ten-dollar bill. The guy put the bill in Jamie’s hand and thanked him for a good time. The boy walked back toward his home watching as the blue car drove out of his life. But it had changed his life. From that time on he became the guy who was not afraid to get into the cars of strangers. "

I think that if you keep everything played down a bit you can squeese some underage stuff into your stories.
mike

JamesSD said:

In the rare case he doesn't, he seems wise enough to know what he doesn't know.

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Psst. James, just to let you know, the lower half of your AV is missing

3113 said:

Psst. James, just to let you know, the lower half of your AV is missing

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I noticed that, too.

Think he'll fix it?

mikey2much said:

I think that if you keep everything played down a bit you can squeese some underage stuff into your stories.
mike

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I'm sorry, but this makes me so damn angry.

The rules are there for a reason. Either live within them, or post your stories somewhere else.

It's beyond selfish to try to get around the rules, and risk the site getting shut down just because you couldn't bring yourself to deal with some very simple rules.

I'm trying so hard to be nice, but in this case, I think it's warranted: grow up. You'll have to live with rules all your life.

cloudy said:

I'm sorry, but this makes me so damn angry.

The rules are there for a reason. Either live within them, or post your stories somewhere else.

It's beyond selfish to try to get around the rules, and risk the site getting shut down just because you couldn't bring yourself to deal with some very simple rules.

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Agreed.

AND he should learn how to properly spell "squeeze."

3113 said:

Psst. James, just to let you know, the lower half of your AV is missing

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Oh my, what an oversight! I guess I'll have to work on that for future AVs!

I was trying to help this guy with his problem

cloudy said:

I'm sorry, but this makes me so damn angry.

The rules are there for a reason. Either live within them, or post your stories somewhere else.

It's beyond selfish to try to get around the rules, and risk the site getting shut down just because you couldn't bring yourself to deal with some very simple rules.

I'm trying so hard to be nice, but in this case, I think it's warranted: grow up. You'll have to live with rules all your life.

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I don't think that you are correct to get your panties in a wad over what I said. I have played by the rules and the story is posted.

I gave an example to show that you almost have to fade to black and let your readers imagine what might have happened. I am not trying to break rules or put the site at risk. I do think that sometimes in a story you might want to show that personality can be shaped by things that happen to people who might be under age.

I won't battle the rules here or the people who get so much pleasure from this site. I enjoy it very much myself. But if we are trying to write and we need to show the effects of an event on a young person, I think that we should be able to do that also.

We just shouldn't let it be the main theme of the story or be something that would draw people who might be the sort to want to read stories about children. I don't think my story did either of these things. It sounds like his story didn't either.

If I have offended you Cloudy, let me say here that I am sorry. I have a great deal of respect for you. I am not trying to drag down your standards for your site with a bunch of kiddie porn.

Sweetsub, I will work on that spelling thing.

mike

No worries about the spelling, mikey.

But I think it is the "getting around the rules" that worries many of us.

Lit is a free site. There are many other sites that allow underage sex. Why don't you take this story there, if it is indeed so important?

mikey2much said:

I don't think that you are correct to get your panties in a wad over what I said. I have played by the rules and the story is posted.

I gave an example to show that you almost have to fade to black and let your readers imagine what might have happened. I am not trying to break rules or put the site at risk. I do think that sometimes in a story you might want to show that personality can be shaped by things that happen to people who might be under age.

I won't battle the rules here or the people who get so much pleasure from this site. I enjoy it very much myself. But if we are trying to write and we need to show the effects of an event on a young person, I think that we should be able to do that also.

We just shouldn't let it be the main theme of the story or be something that would draw people who might be the sort to want to read stories about children. I don't think my story did either of these things. It sounds like his story didn't either.

If I have offended you Cloudy, let me say here that I am sorry. I have a great deal of respect for you. I am not trying to drag down your standards for your site with a bunch of kiddie porn.

Sweetsub, I will work on that spelling thing.

mike

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1) Please don't say "panties in a wad." It's insulting. It may not seem that way to you, but it is. You don't say that to guys, right? Don't say it to women.

2) The site rules are no sex whatsoever, no titillation, nothing, with an underage character. Period.

3) I agree that as authors we can show the effects that early events have on a character's life. The thing is, we just can't do it here. That's the rules.

4) I'm not offended, I'm just dismayed by people trying their hardest to get around rules that are there for a reason. The site isn't ours, it's Laurel's & Manu's. If we want to play in their playground, we have to play by their rules.

No matter your integrity as an author, people bending the rules like that is what will get this site shut down eventually.

cloudy said:

I'm sorry, but this makes me so damn angry.

The rules are there for a reason. Either live within them, or post your stories somewhere else.

It's beyond selfish to try to get around the rules, and risk the site getting shut down just because you couldn't bring yourself to deal with some very simple rules.

I'm trying so hard to be nice, but in this case, I think it's warranted: grow up. You'll have to live with rules all your life.

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Wow. I didn't mean to stir the hornets nest here; I just didn't understand why my story was rejected!

It was never my intention to break any rules or to look for ways around them. I can easily have the under-aged character in question progress the story without being remotely involved in any sex scenes. So I'm working on editing it now, including statements reflecting character age just to be on the safe side.

Sorry to rile you up, and thank you for your feedback!

Pen_Dragon said:

Wow. I didn't mean to stir the hornets nest here; I just didn't understand why my story was rejected!

It was never my intention to break any rules or to look for ways around them. I can easily have the under-aged character in question progress the story without being remotely involved in any sex scenes. So I'm working on editing it now, including statements reflecting character age just to be on the safe side.

Sorry to rile you up, and thank you for your feedback!

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Wasn't directed at you, darlin'. No worries.