Is being a painslut caused by genetics or biological factors?

There was a thread that mentioned whether someone can be a "natural" slave, submissive, etc. That got me thinking, mainly about painsluts. Now, we know that pain is something created by the brain. It's a mental response designed to tell you "hey, something is wrong here!"

There are some people who have disorders that don't allow them to feel pain. It's extremely dangerous; as children these people are constantly getting burned, breaking bones, and injuring themselves badly. Little kids learn not to touch the stove by burning their hands, right? So if it doesn't hurt when you touch the hot stove, you can end up with major damage.

Which brings me to painsluts. I'm not saying they too have a disorder, of course. But if pain is supposed to tell you not to do something, and you LIKE pain...is there something about your brain that is telling it the pain is okay? Are painsluts, for lack of a better word, "wired differently" than people who don't enjoy pain?

I think they've just got more of something everyone has some of.

What's that?

Etoile said:

There was a thread that mentioned whether someone can be a "natural" slave, submissive, etc. That got me thinking, mainly about painsluts. Now, we know that pain is something created by the brain. It's a mental response designed to tell you "hey, something is wrong here!"

There are some people who have disorders that don't allow them to feel pain. It's extremely dangerous; as children these people are constantly getting burned, breaking bones, and injuring themselves badly. Little kids learn not to touch the stove by burning their hands, right? So if it doesn't hurt when you touch the hot stove, you can end up with major damage.

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I don't know if it's always a disorder that doesn't allow you to feel pain. Sometimes extreme ADHD can get you a child who continually forgets not to touch THE DAMN STOVE. No, I'm not speaking from frusterated experience, why do you ask?

Which brings me to painsluts. I'm not saying they too have a disorder, of course. But if pain is supposed to tell you not to do something, and you LIKE pain...is there something about your brain that is telling it the pain is okay? Are painsluts, for lack of a better word, "wired differently" than people who don't enjoy pain?

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I think, and I could be wrong, that Netzach thinks that they get more of the awesome endorphins that are released during pain.

I remember KC saying, once, that it's not like all pain is fun, or she'd sit around hitting her head on the wall all the time. I think she said it's pain that's sexually movtivated, or something to that affect.

I think we are more endorphins junkies that for one reason or another discovered our endurance has rewards. I like pain for the same reason as I like running. My whole body comes alive and my mind clears. My senses are sharpened and I feel connected in that moment like nothing else.

So, I'd say biology.

Sometimes I entertain the idea that being taking a beating (or what have you) is a lot like meditating. Studies have shown that meditation has physical benefits, that your mind is effecting biology.

Pain releases endorphins, but usually it takes a while for the "release point" to be crossed, just like I don't enjoy the first couple of steps out the door running. I think that painsluts reset their "release point" lower, possibly from accepting the pain rather than resisting it.

Just my two cents. I'm sure there can be more biological predispositions for some people, but I know there's a big difference for me between the bruises I'm sitting on right now and the ones I'm typing with from smashing my finger.

graceanne said:

I don't know if it's always a disorder that doesn't allow you to feel pain. Sometimes extreme ADHD can get you a child who continually forgets not to touch THE DAMN STOVE. No, I'm not speaking from frusterated experience, why do you ask?

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Ah, but that's a different problem. I have very personal experience with ADHD, I've been living with it for 26 years and researching and learning for 14 years. A kid who repeatedly touches the stove still feels the pain, they just don't learn from it.

I have a book by Dr. Robert Marion called "The Boy Who Felt No Pain." I will check when I get home what the kid's disorder was.

I remember KC saying, once, that it's not like all pain is fun, or she'd sit around hitting her head on the wall all the time. I think she said it's pain that's sexually movtivated, or something to that affect.

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No, and that's not what I meant - I don't think anybody thinks painsluts like ALL pain. But still, pain is supposed to mean OW NO STOP THIS IS HURTING YOU, not oooooh this feels good...and yet some people like it the second way too.

LadyAria said:

I think we are more endorphins junkies that for one reason or another discovered our endurance has rewards. I like pain for the same reason as I like running. My whole body comes alive and my mind clears. My senses are sharpened and I feel connected in that moment like nothing else.

So, I'd say biology.

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Ah, that's a good point! So perhaps it is being "wired differently" - having a different response to adrenaline and endorphins than most people. We talk about "good excitement" like seeing your loved one come off the plane after they've been gone, and then there's "bad excitement" like being chased by somebody you know is planning to kill you. I think pain is supposed to be "bad excitement"...but some people interpret some kinds of pain as "good excitement."

heheh, yeah, some REALLY like the pain... so much that us Domly types have to come up with other ways to punish our pyls when they mess up lol

But I think the answer is jsut like the one on teh original post "natural Masochist" where it's a combo between being born biologically inclined but due to things learned growing up, family, environment etc. etc. it then gets phsychologically engineered, thus the two add up to being a pain slut

graceanne said:

I don't know if it's always a disorder that doesn't allow you to feel pain. Sometimes extreme ADHD can get you a child who continually forgets not to touch THE DAMN STOVE. No, I'm not speaking from frusterated experience, why do you ask?



I think, and I could be wrong, that Netzach thinks that they get more of the awesome endorphins that are released during pain.

I remember KC saying, once, that it's not like all pain is fun, or she'd sit around hitting her head on the wall all the time. I think she said it's pain that's sexually movtivated, or something to that affect.

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exactly gracie. i am a painslut, not a huge one right now *grins* but there is a difference between the pain Master gives me during a scene, and the pain of putting my hand on the hot stove. my hand on the hot stove would NOT feel good, it would hurt like a bitch and i would NOT like it. there are times i'm craving pain, but that does not mean i'm going to slam my hand in a door to get it, it's a different 'kind' of pain. i agree, i'ts pain that's sexually motivated that does it for me, not just slamming my head off the wall, putting my hand on the hot stove, or slamming my hand in a door, those are BAD hurt *grins* i know i'm doing a terrible job of explaining this but it's just not easy to explain. i don't, think i am wired any different, i just think i like different things than some.

Etoile said:

I have a book by Dr. Robert Marion called "The Boy Who Felt No Pain." I will check when I get home what the kid's disorder was.

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From memory is could be CIPA (congenital insensitivity to pain with anhidrosis) which is genetic and rare, but still real.

Catalina

I think it might be a difference of degree as much as anything... I mean, I'd say the majority of people who enjoy sex generally also enjoy a little sexual pain in the form of scratching and biting. And it is sexual pain we're talking about here, since masochists don't like slamming their fingers in the door any more than regular folk (or at least I don't...).

But obviously, most people don't like pain enough to want to focus on it as a big part of their sexual activity. (Plus they're socialized to think that sex shouldn't be about pain, which is another kettle of fish entirely). Then obviously there's the matter of having a sadistic partner who likes to inflict pain, which seems like probably a less common tendency...

Interesting question.

In my opinion it's more psychological than physiological.

The children you mentioned make no distinction between the types of pain. I want to say that, like lepers, they merely have decreased sensation, but I don't think that's right. It's the actual processing of painful sensation as unpleasant that doesn't work for them, right?

In any case, in my experience, painsluts don't feel pain less, they just enjoy it more. Without debating the finer points of the mind/body problem, it seems to me that the vast majority of the negativity you experience with pain is fear.

Have you ever cut yourself and not felt much pain until you looked at the wound and realized it was worse than you thought?

I've never met a masochist who enjoyed a bee sting or a splinter. Clearly it isn't their ability to experience pain which is different, but the way they feel about it.

LadyAria said:

I think we are more endorphins junkies that for one reason or another discovered our endurance has rewards. I like pain for the same reason as I like running. My whole body comes alive and my mind clears. My senses are sharpened and I feel connected in that moment like nothing else.

So, I'd say biology.

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Could it be considered addiction (of sorts) to endorphins? Or is it an addiction to the psychological/emotional effects of pain? Or both?

I am one who enjoys pain but I've never been completely sure as to why. I am fairly new to BDSM but I've found that the more pain inlficted on me the more I want...more. I experience (and enjoy) it mentally, emotionally, and sexually. Yet, the thing is that it doesn't even have to lead to sexual "activities"; it's somewhat about overcoming fears that allow me a sense of personal growth in submission. It's not that all types of pain are enjoyable (such as slamming one's hand in the door, definitely not!).

I don't believe it's genetic, yet, I think it could be a biological factor ( enjoying the endorphins), and also a psychological/emotional factor.

Etoile said:

What's that?

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Oh, I'm not sure exactly what it is that causes people to convert pain sensations to something else with sexual arousal or spiritual trance accompanying, I just find that the tendency is fairly universal when other factors don't complicate it or close it off (trauma, taboo, hang-ups, loss of control issues etc.)

Basically I think anyone has a latent bottom in them if their brain just does what it does - how much of one and how hard and far that can go is going to vary. For some people a hard bite is about as much as you can take, or an hour of meditative kneeling. For other people extremes are within reach.

Marquis said:

The children you mentioned make no distinction between the types of pain. I want to say that, like lepers, they merely have decreased sensation, but I don't think that's right. It's the actual processing of painful sensation as unpleasant that doesn't work for them, right?

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I've got the book on my lap now.

Complete inability to sense pain is ... a symptom of a number of disorders that share two things in common: all are hereditary ... and all are very rare, occuring in less than one in 10,000 individuals. Many of these disorders are associated with other unusual abnormalities, but Jimmy's examination revealed only isolated defects in pain and temperature perception.

The boy in the book is diagnosed as having hereditary sensory neuropathy, which is described here at RareDiseases.org. Apparently the nerves don't communicate properly with the brain, rather than not processing it as painful. There's some more information here about a Pakistani family that had this, and they think it's because there's a special protein that tells us when something is painful vs. something we're just touching, and these people don't have that protein. So it's possible to have touch intact (the boy in the book is ticklish) but still not be able to feel pain.

The body is the world's most complex and remarkable machine...and there are so many things that can go wrong. This one is pretty weird, I think.

Etoile said:

I've got the book on my lap now.

Complete inability to sense pain is ... a symptom of a number of disorders that share two things in common: all are hereditary ... and all are very rare, occuring in less than one in 10,000 individuals. Many of these disorders are associated with other unusual abnormalities, but Jimmy's examination revealed only isolated defects in pain and temperature perception.

The boy in the book is diagnosed as having hereditary sensory neuropathy, which is described here at RareDiseases.org. Apparently the nerves don't communicate properly with the brain, rather than not processing it as painful. There's some more information here about a Pakistani family that had this, and they think it's because there's a special protein that tells us when something is painful vs. something we're just touching, and these people don't have that protein. So it's possible to have touch intact (the boy in the book is ticklish) but still not be able to feel pain.

The body is the world's most complex and remarkable machine...and there are so many things that can go wrong. This one is pretty weird, I think.

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just to be sure, we are not saying that there is an comparison to this and being a 'painslut' are we?? because in my eyes, they are two TOTALLY different things.....

I think I posted something similiar to this in another thread, but since I can't remember off the top of my head which one it was, I'll just repost.

I know I'm an adrenaline junkie. I'm also probably an endorphin junkie as well. It takes very little pain for my body to release endorphins--and a whole bunch of them. Even when I was very young, it didn't take much for me to figure out that a little pain would bring a flood of pleasure unlike anything else I'd ever experienced before. Hence, me beating myself with hairbrushes and things like that just for the rush I'd get later. (I didn't derive sexual pleasure from it in the beginning, though.) It got sexual around the age of 8 or 9, which intensified it, but I can remember "hurting" myself at the age of about 4 just because I knew it felt good. To this day, when I'm stressed out, I'll catch myself biting the skin around my nails until it bleeds, or something like that, just to feel the calming effects of my super-endorphins. The benefits far outweigh the cost, in my case.

It's helped me out a lot, too. Even unpleasant pain will bring on the rush. Of course, if I'm hurting really badly, I don't enjoy it. About this time last year, I had a procedure done under local anesthesia. The doctor was shocked that I didn't even flinch, and he told me that he'd seen grown men faint from it. Well, it was far from pleasant, but those endorphins got me through it, even though I certainly hated every minute of it. Most people just say I'm tough. I know I'm just an endorphin junkie.

So, is it physiological or psychological? The release of the endorphins is physiological. The realization that, "Hey, pain eventually makes me feel good" is operant conditioning, pure and simple. I say it's a bit of both, at least in my case.

Wouldn't that main difference between a painslut and someone who is incapable of feeling pain be that painsluts crave pain? It doesn't mean they can't feel it, but just that they like it. Where as with that boy he just couldn't feel it. If you can't feel it how could you crave it?

even in little kids youll see a seperation in "kinds" of pain. if a kid falls down while playing with his friends, chances are hell get back up and keep playing. he doesnt mind the pain at that point as long as it does not affect his behavior from that point on. however a kid can fall and do the same amount of damage and cuase the same amount of pain but be in a situation where he isnt already enjoying himself and youve got tears and hysterics.

i think that we painsluts can just seperate kinds of pain better. give me pain with some sort of sexual or submissive twist and ill be much more likely to take it and enjoy it. give me the same pain but with nothing sexual or submissive attached to it, and im not liking it one bit.

lil_slave_rose said:

just to be sure, we are not saying that there is an comparison to this and being a 'painslut' are we?? because in my eyes, they are two TOTALLY different things.....

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What? http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/whoa.gif
No, that's not what I was saying at all, I'm surprised anyone took it that way! Like I said, it was just bouncing different ideas around in my head. No, of course I am not comparing a neurological disorder to being a painslut.

Etoile said:

I've got the book on my lap now.

Complete inability to sense pain is ... a symptom of a number of disorders that share two things in common: all are hereditary ... and all are very rare, occuring in less than one in 10,000 individuals. Many of these disorders are associated with other unusual abnormalities, but Jimmy's examination revealed only isolated defects in pain and temperature perception.

The boy in the book is diagnosed as having hereditary sensory neuropathy, which is described here at RareDiseases.org. Apparently the nerves don't communicate properly with the brain, rather than not processing it as painful. There's some more information here about a Pakistani family that had this, and they think it's because there's a special protein that tells us when something is painful vs. something we're just touching, and these people don't have that protein. So it's possible to have touch intact (the boy in the book is ticklish) but still not be able to feel pain.

The body is the world's most complex and remarkable machine...and there are so many things that can go wrong. This one is pretty weird, I think.

Click to expand...

Ah, the disorder I was thinking of is said to be a neuron block which stops pain being communicated to the brain, thus they do not feel it.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

Ah, the disorder I was thinking of is said to be a neuron block which stops pain being communicated to the brain, thus they do not feel it.

Catalina

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That's probably not too dissimilar to what SCI patients experience. I had a teacher once who broke his neck and was paralyzed from about mid-chest on down (still had full use of his arms). He told us how one time he had a hot casserole on his lap and didn't realize it was TOO hot until it almost burned him very badly. The problem with an SCI is that the nerves are damaged/severed and so the message is sent, but it never gets there - similar to a neuron block, I would imagine.

As a complete painslut myself I have often wondered why it is I crave the pain too.

My theory (based soley on my own personal experience) is that health wise I live everyday with pain, some days it is intense and would, I suspect, stop many other people in their tracks. I, and other people with the same condition, tend to just get on with it otherwise we would have no life. So therefore I have psychologically mutated pain into something pleasurable in order to cope with it.

As I say this really is a blue sky theory as I am not about to ask the other people I know if they are also pain-sluts!!! That is not to say that if I was to put my hand on the stove I'd enjoy it but anything that is remotely reminiscent of the dull thud I endure just does not cause me to go 'ouch'.

Over time I have learnt that I can not only endure this type of pain but that it has also opened the 'pain-slut' door to me; which the thought of gets the endorphins flowing (is this still making sense, I understand it perfectly in my warped head!!)

To try and clarify; the pain I endure still hurts and I don't like it but if I am smacked I forget about the dull pain and concentrate on the sharp one (its a bit like the 'joke' when you are little and you go crying to your dad telling him your leg hurts so he says I'll hit the other one so you forget about the other leg), I find the act of smacking pleasurable therefore it sets of the endorphins.

Apologies if I have confused you more, I wish I could hold a thought and verbalise it