finances

Here's something I found an interesting topic, although I am sure it has been mentioned before-- finances.
Who's in charge of finances within your relationship?
Do you think that having your sub totally depend on you, including financial stuff adds to your relationship, or do you enjoy giving the task of balancing your checkbook? (Who does that anyway, I don't even have checks anymore... save a tree)
Your thoughts?

Bandit58 said:

I still retain control of my own finances (and do most of our joint bill paying etc).

Click to expand...

leavessnailtrails said:

Here's something I found an interesting topic, although I am sure it has been mentioned before-- finances.
Who's in charge of finances within your relationship?
Do you think that having your sub totally depend on you, including financial stuff adds to your relationship, or do you enjoy giving the task of balancing your checkbook? (Who does that anyway, I don't even have checks anymore... save a tree)
Your thoughts?

Click to expand...

I've always been pretty independent about this. Like Bandit, I keep my own credit cards and check book and pay most of the joint bills.

He pays certain things. Most of them he pays automatically.

In my past marriage, we had a joint checking account and our separate ones. It sure does help to not have to worry about what the other person is doing with their money as long as they take care of the obligations you have both agreed on.

I watched my parents. They never knew how much money they had. Were always surprised about not having enough.

My grandparents were interesting to watch too. One set never had enough. The other always arguing about how much she spent.

My friends, many of whom are unhappily surprised by the lack of follow through in deposits or the spending by their husbands are not usually happy with their systems of money management.

I'd rather do it my separate but mostly equal way.

I would not enjoy keeping someone financially enthralled or being kept that way.

Fury

leavessnailtrails said:

Here's something I found an interesting topic, although I am sure it has been mentioned before-- finances.
Who's in charge of finances within your relationship?
Do you think that having your sub totally depend on you, including financial stuff adds to your relationship, or do you enjoy giving the task of balancing your checkbook? (Who does that anyway, I don't even have checks anymore... save a tree)
Your thoughts?

Click to expand...

right now as we are not living together, obviously, we both have our own financial things though i will ask Him before big purchases and such..when we move in together....we'll have a joint account, and probably whoever feels like balancing the checkbook will do so, and since He says He hates balancing checkbooks, and i actually like it, it will probably be me. as far as buying stuff....well that will depend on what it is, how much it costs, etc..the big purchases will be made only with His approval. we're just not big on the financial control means i have more control over you thing. though we are D/s we are still a 'team' so to speak and financial issues will be dealt with in that way. paying the bills? yea that will probably be one of my responsibilities, but i don't see that any differently than any other relationship out there. when my mom died..about 2 months afterwards, we were sitting around and dad got His Social Security check in the mail, and He said "wow, when i sign this and take it to the bank, they will probably arrest me for forgery' LOL because my mom always signed His checks and then paid the bills, bought groceries, etc...anyway, yea..that's my two cents....

another twist then, and ladies thanks for your reply, who has brought the financial aspect into their D/s life?

Another board I am on has several D/s relationships in which the sub has no control at all over the money. Not only do they not have control, they don't even know the barest details about the finances in the household. I'm sure it seems very much like "proper" or "real" BDSM to them, but I'm reminded of the older couples my parents knew in which the husband would die and the wife would be left without a clue as to where to even FIND the financial documents to keep the houshold runnning.

Hell, I know a vanilla woman who DID have all the information she needed and STILL had problems when her husband died suddenly, because the insurance people gave her a hard time about paying off. She was starting to worry about keeping her house by the time they cut the check. Imagine if she'd not known where or if there WAS an insurance policy, or where the bank account was, or didn't have her name on it...

To me, it's common sense for any couple, D/s, vanilla or otherwise, to at least have something in place to make sure both people have a handle on how to keep the household running financially in case of a problem. I know it's all about control in D/s, but it seems like a bad idea to me.

My husband and I married in out late 30's-early 40's. I also have two older kids. We each have financial obligations that came before we met, and I am responsible for my older kids. We keep separate accounts and divy up the household expenses. We each know how/where to get to the money and what the insurance is.

I do it, but then I am slightly better with money mangement.
And on a slightly lighter note; how can you leave the finances to someone who is used to getting there own way all the time, there'd be none left

subtleone said:

I do it, but then I am slightly better with money mangement.
And on a slightly lighter note; how can you leave the finances to someone who is used to getting there own way all the time, there'd be none left

Click to expand...

That was exactly the problem with my ex. *giggles*

We weren't D/s but I ended up with control of the money. I wanted him to take charge of everything when we got married. That's just how I thought things should be, and since we had talked about it before hand I thought we were on the same page. At the time we were both working and had a joint account. I just personally never believed in keeping "his money" and "my money" seperate, everything was ours.

Well it didn't last long. Some how everytime he wanted something he got it, and I never had any money to do anything. That's when I started gaining weight, and after about 4 months of this (on top of most of the bills being behind when we should have been breazing thru them) I told him it wasn't working, and I refused to live this way.

So I ended up with the check book and he started checking with me for every purchace he made. He'd even call me from work and ask if he could get a pop! *giggles* This wasn't something I specifically requested, but I guess after explaining to him (in a rather loud and harsh voice) that if there is no money in the bank when he swipes his card, that 20oz soda ends up costing $35.

I really didn't like having so much ...power, I guess, over him. It just didn't feel right to me. But it's what we had to do to keep the money in order.

If I'm ever married again, I still believe the same way. I still wouldn't like seperate moneys, and I'd still want him to keep charge of it. I guess I always had that oldfashioned image of marrage in my mind where I'd get an allowance to buy the groceries and such, and he'd take care of everything else. *shrug*

Seeing it was my quote which started this thread, I guess I'll chime in

Giving away financial control to another is a hard limit for me. I watched my mother struggle when my father became ill and she had to learn how to write a cheque, pay the bills and use a credit and ATM card. He had always taken care of the bills - although luckily they had a joint account she had never used it, he wrote her a cheque when they went to town and she cashed it at the bank.

It's all very well to trust each other that much that you'd give up having any money, but what if something should happen to your Dom......you'd be stuck with no way to pay bills or buy food. At least make sure you have some sort of bank account, even if you give your Dom the access card (make sure you know where it is!).

I have investments from my settlement from my first marriage. Master is not interested in any of this money and it is all in my name. We each have our own bank accounts. Right from when we first got together, He gave me His PIN number. He has health problems and sometimes cannot go to get money out and He doesn't trust internet banking - He was paying all His bills in cash before I moved in. When I get the money for Him I give it to Him along with the receipt but He hardly ever looks at it

I pay our bills using internet banking and I get His half in cash. If He wants cigarettes I take the money out of His wallet If I need cash for groceries I just ask. We take turn about paying for petrol. We each put in for half the rent. If there's something He wants online I use my credit card and He gives me the cash. I keep track of our account balances. I'm good with figures and budgeting, and He is happy to leave it all up to me - I'm in fact serving Him by doing this

For us it is a matter of I no longer earn an income so all incoming money is made by him at this point. I sold my home to move here and most of that money has been used in shipping my things here, and also helping to buy our house etc. For us he classes it all as our money, though he has the say on how it is spent...I have trouble thinking anything but it is his money so we continually have these discussions about it. He has found I am not someone who spends money (even when I had my own) foolishly or on a whim, and that if I think something is needed I will try and find the best price for the best item necessary....because of that he has told me to buy things occasionally, such as a music CD, gifts for my daughter and granddaughter etc., without bothering him with requests for permission. It still isn't easdy for me to do that so it doesn't happen often.

Apart from all that small stuff, he has a hatred of handling financial matters and has said he can see I am much better and efficient at it, so he has made one of my duties to deal with our financial matters. It isn't easy seeing as everything comes into the house in a language I don't understand yet (though yay, I finally have a Dutch tutor starting next week!!), but as I also found a house for us to buy through Dutch alone, so I figure it is just a matter of head down, butt up and do it. So far I have not made any stuff ups, and in fact have surprised him with how I have attacked some of our expenses and eliminated them, and the plans I have to do so with even more, and still gotten to the end of the month with money left in the bank. I pay all our accounts through internet banking and keep track of the bank account online as well. Of course, even though I am in charge of finances in this way, I still have to ask his permission to be allowed to make a bulk payment instead of continuing to pay off an account over time, or spending on anything which is not a usual expense, and he checks what I have been doing from time to time. Now if I can only get him to agree to my savings plan which worked wonders for me over the years, but he does not like as he likes to just leave it all in the everyday account, we will begin to make money from money which would be nice.

Catalina

Giving away my financial independence may be something I can never do. I've seen my mom depend on my dad for everything, and even when he was abusing her children, she would never leave him. She couldn't. She had no idea how to pay the bills or take care of anything financially. We all suffered because of it. I remember having to sneek in the house with secondhand clothes bought from the Salvation Army so dad couldn't see how much we'd spent (usually $20 or $30).

So for me, my greatest pride is my financial situation. I've worked hard to arrive where I am. I do everything on my own. I've promised myself that I would always have a separate account, separate credit, everything it took to keep that indepedence.

I know that everyone is different, and I'm not deriding anyone for their position. I'm just stating my view on it.

I have come to the conclusion that women are just much better with finances than the men are
I read this story the other day of a submissive hot-shot attorney lady who had to beg her Dom for every little thing including feminine products. I guess that is just another fetish.
Naturally, in real life, there have been way too many examples of how this does not work and is in fact dangerous.
Thank you ladies for your responses, and Catalina, if you ever need any help with that pesky Dutch language, feel free to call on me.

Great topic! It's very interesting reading how others handle finances.

We've talked about how we'll incorporate finances into D/s, and I think we'll stick with things as they are, with the exception of me having the final decision on personal "wants" (luxuries) and major purchases, which will likely eliminate conflict.

As it is now, and has been for years, everything is combined/joint, including investments he's inherited. We do have separate accounts from before the relationship, but only they carry a $10 balance, just to stay open in case we need them at some point. He makes the bulk of the income, but we don't look at it that way because it can be a source of guilt and we'll likely trade off being the breadwinner throughout our lives, so it's not important.

He keeps an eye on our accounts and pays incoming bills. I could, and sometimes do, do it, but I prefer not to. We discuss what's been paid, is coming due, how much we have, and how to handle bigger issues. We tend to check with each other before buying a luxury item that's more than $20 (though a ton of smaller items wouldn't be good, either).We're both equally good with money, and I greatly value his skills and ability to handle this responsibility.

We both have very similar backgrounds and philosophies on finances, but I definitely need more of a savings cushion than he does to feel comfortable, and I rarely make impulse purchases or buy "wants" without research and consideration. I'm the one who says, "Let's wait on that to see if we can get a better price/need it/until we've saved more," and that can cause some conflict, that we have to work through and find a suitable compromise for. He usually accepts my proposed compromise because waiting and saving have put us in a very good financial position, and rescued us from ruin in the past.

I don't think a D/s dynamic will change the way we work too much, but I do believe it'll virtually eliminate the conflict if he decides to give me the power to make the final decision (which won't change from what I say now) since it'll take any power struggle out of the equation. If he puts that kind of trust in me, I'll make damn sure I make the best decision and give him what he needs to be happy. When we first discussed this, he needed reassurance to quell the irrational fear that I'd deny him all wants (he was reading about Dominants who do that). He's gotten the reassurance without question because I have no desire to control every purchase or eliminate (or even reduce, really) luxuries from his life. I'm fine with not having total control over finances, but I do think it'll work quite well to have final say about bigger "wants" if we do decide to go there.

My submissive and I have had a relationship of almost five years. It started when we were both living in San Diego and local to each other. I was tranferred to Dallas within a year and she asked to remain under collar. We continued a long-distance relationship for almost three years when it was decided she could "rent" a room from me in my house if she could also arrange a corporate transfer. I asked her to come up with a comparible amount of other "rooms-for-rent" in the type of house I have and I averaged what the utilities were for the previous year. We agreed on an amount and she made the cross country move on her own. Since then, I've reduced the rent in the amount of the food bill since she loves grocery shopping and cooking. Aside from that, we maintain our separate accounts and she's paid her rent on time every month. She does ask for advise with major purchases, like her motorcycle, but we each have our own financial obligations that we attend to nicely. Since Texas is a common-law marriage state, it is important for me to maintain that separation for my/our own peace of mind, in addition to our respective estates. Regardless of the direction, as long as the agreement is jointly made and lines of communication stay open, it would have a better chance of success. Be well.

Yasashii_Kaze said:

Giving away my financial independence may be something I can never do. I've seen my mom depend on my dad for everything, and even when he was abusing her children, she would never leave him. She couldn't. She had no idea how to pay the bills or take care of anything financially. We all suffered because of it. I remember having to sneek in the house with secondhand clothes bought from the Salvation Army so dad couldn't see how much we'd spent (usually $20 or $30).

So for me, my greatest pride is my financial situation. I've worked hard to arrive where I am. I do everything on my own. I've promised myself that I would always have a separate account, separate credit, everything it took to keep that indepedence.

I know that everyone is different, and I'm not deriding anyone for their position. I'm just stating my view on it.

Click to expand...

this hits home with me as well, though it was not my mom, it was me. my ex husband was an abusive asshat and i had to beg for the most stupid things that i needed, like tampons for instance. it was not a D/s relationship, he is just a Domineering asshat. but i was with him from the time i was 13 till i turned 23, so i didn't know any other life, i depended on him for EVERYTHING and he knew it, which is why he was confident in the fact that i would never leave him no matter how much he abused me, and also why he was very surprised to come home from work one night to find me, the kids, and all of our stuff gone. i did not have access to the finances and was not allowed to buy anything without his 'permission' even if it was a notebook for my daughter for school.

so, in my relationship with Master, it will not be that way. we will both be working, and both of our checks will go into a joint account, i have no problem with that, we talked about it tonight, and we will BOTH have access to said account. will i ask Him before buying anything? defiantly, well maybe not 'ask' but will defiantly let Him know before i go buy it so He can object if He doesn't think it's necessary or what have ya. but i think, if i'm out, paying bills or something, and stop off to get a bite to eat, or whatever, He won't say anything, i won't have to call Him and ask if i can..... , just as He will tell me when He plans on buying something, big purchases will be discussed and made together. He says He does not see the handling of our finances any differently than if we were a 'nilla couple. and that's my second 2 cents lol

I believe that the most equitable way to do things if one is working outside of the home and the other is not goes as follows:

Money is set aside preferably before the check is cut for retirement, college and so on.

Check comes in.

Household or joint bills are paid.

Any remaining money is then split equally by the adults in the household to spend up to a point or save as they wish.

Any big purchases are done jointly.

Now I always have had money coming in, even when I was a stay at home mom, but most don't. That doesn't mean what they are doing doesn't have a hellva lot of value to the working partner.

In our case, I make a lot less than him. I also work outside the home a lot less than him.

I pay most of the bills because he hates to do so.

He pays the biggest bills online. That sort of balances things out.

I do the taxes (and keep the books for my business). I mostly do the taxes because if he does them he cusses a lot. I don't like to hear it. I'd rather do it. Of course I cuss too, some, but that doesn't bother me as much. LOL.

This isn't a D/s issue to me. I'd feel the same regardless. Again, I'll say it would not please me to keep someone from being financially independent or vice versa.

Fury

leavessnailtrails said:

.... Catalina, if you ever need any help with that pesky Dutch language, feel free to call on me.

Click to expand...

You can ask me too if you wish...

M's girl said:

You can ask me too if you wish...

Click to expand...

Thanks to both of you....I am finally getting an opportunity to learn it starting this week with my own personal tutor. F did tell me before I got here he would arrange something, but it didn't happen and then bought courses on tape without the books to go with them and CD's without the books to go with them, so up to now I have taught myself through catalogues, reading subtitles on TV (got so good I can sometimes tell when they haven't translated it correct!!), and sheer perseverence. When this opportunity arose he was OK with me doing it and agreed to get a tape recorder would be a huge help, but he then decided I didn't need one. I can't see me remembering 2 hours of tuition a week without something to refer to though so he is coming up with a variety of ideas of how I could do without buying a recorder...but someone else also said they were going to get me one so maybe I will be lucky. If not, I have complete confidence in my tutor as we get on great, chuckle a lot together, think the same on methods of learning, and she loves chocolate so how bad could lessons be?!! Think one of the first shopping lessons will be the chocolate shop.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

.... I have complete confidence in my tutor as we get on great, chuckle a lot together, think the same on methods of learning, and she loves chocolate so how bad could lessons be?!! Think one of the first shopping lessons will be the chocolate shop.

Catalina

Click to expand...

Yup, you could do a lot worse...
Well, you know where to find me if necessary!
Good luck... I was going to say something about those (damned) subtitles and how they translate things sooo bad sometimes. But if you noticed that already your Dutch must be starting to be pretty good!

Well done!

Money always seems to become an emotive or difficult issue.

I have spoken to submissives in online relationships who are asked about money before they and the PYL have even met.

I don't like money. I don't like discussions about it and I don't enjoy the process of dealing with it. Money makes me feel awkward and uncomfortable.

Andante and I have not discussed it. There is no need, neither of us have any so there is no discussion. Any extra money we have is spent on flights to and from each other.

He has told me how it worked for his wife and him, he knows how it worked for my ex husbands and I.

The way that worked best for me in the past, was a separate accounts with one joint account the bills were paid from. Each person contributing to the joint account, based on a percentage of their income. However, it does not mean that would work in different circumstances.

I am like catalina, I don't want to ask him for money and in the past have never enjoyed taking money from a joint account for personal things for me ie: coffee in town, a haircut etc.

I am shocked at how quickly women (vanilla and submissive) give up details of their finances to their new partners. As if it is a show of trust or love. Maybe it is both, but if the partner turns out to be less than honest the pyl risks more than emotional heartache.

It would be quite naieve and maybe even downright stupid for any person in a relationship to not have their hand in the finances. Many a wealthy woman has lost quite a bit after a divorce or their husband dying due to their lack of involvement into money matters. That does not mean to say that in a BDSM relationship that the dominant partner can't control purchases and the like. But both people need to be able to go in in the event of something happening in the future.

My PYL and I have not discussed finances, but we don't live together and have no plans to at this point. When we go out he usually pays, but a couple of times I have wanted to go to a really nice restaurant here in town and I volunteered to pay because it was my idea. In the end, I think it all comes out in the wash.

I can state, without a doubt, if we were to set up housekeeping, I would maintain control of my own money. It's not that I don't trust him, but I have been there done that with my ex-husband..lesson learned the hard way.

ETA - with the ex..I had access to the money, I just very stupidly did not stay as involved and aware as I should have in the day-to-day budgeting.

M's girl said:

Yup, you could do a lot worse...
Well, you know where to find me if necessary!
Good luck... I was going to say something about those (damned) subtitles and how they translate things sooo bad sometimes. But if you noticed that already your Dutch must be starting to be pretty good!

Well done!

Click to expand...

LOL, yes as far as reading goes it is fair if very basic, and today I have the recorder and he is OK with it, so soon I should be prattling away just like the natives!!!

Catalina

I'm a homemaker, I don't have income. But K and I share a savings account. When his check comes, I take it down to the bank. I come home and make a budget. He looks at my budget and suggests any changes he wants made, although that rarely happens. I'm pretty good at budgeting. The next morning I go to the bank, get out in cash what I need and take it to whoever it is we owe money to. If I need to mail it I get it in a money order. If he wants extra for something he comes and asks if their's money in the budget. Frankly doing all this is something I do for him cause he HATES budgeting and all that..

Daddy controls the finances entirely. whether i'm earning any money or not, it's all technically "his" money, which he uses as he sees fit to take care of the household and individual expenses. every 2 weeks, unless i've gotten in some sort of trouble and don't deserve it, i receive a small allowance, that i may spend however i like within reason.

but as far as bills, insurance, bank accounts, etc...those things are not my business. there is one account in my name, however i have no access to it on my own. it used to be that i didn't have the faintest idea about any of our finances...how much bills were, whether or not there was insurance and what types of insurance, etc...but lately my Master has been giving me a bit of information just so i have a general awareness of things. however, if something were to suddenly happen to him, i would not know how to deal with the finances and there are many things i still wouldn't be aware of (for instance i have no idea what my Master's income is, or how taxes are done)...this is how my Master likes and wants it. He likes knowing that i could not survive without him...he does not want to train me to be an independent, self-sufficient person. these are not qualities that he finds desireable in a woman or slave, therefore they are not qualities i will have.

OSG as long as you know where the paperwork is should he die.

My ex next door neighbour had no clue about finances and admitted that should her husband die she knew nothing. She had never paid a bill nor written a cheque...ever.

When my son died he had very little in the way of money, but I had to go through all his private papers to find the information for closing accounts and telling the authorities who needed to know.

I felt like an intruder going through his things. It was awkward and I really did not enjoy it. At that point he had no secrets everything was read because I did not know where the information was. In the process I found private letters and things that I know he did not intend for his mother to ever see.

If it had been a partner or spouse it would have been worse. I did not have to worry about bills or rent/mortgage that would not get paid as result of my sons death, but if it is a partner that is a possibility.

Potentially losing your home because you don't know where paperwork is kept would be terrible.

It is not about his making you independent, it about ensuring your welfare in the event of his unexpected death.