Don't worry, sistas, you aren't the only people who put down black men

Le Jacquelope

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060701...al.mlBH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Black men quietly combating stereotypes

By ERIN TEXEIRA, Associated Press WriterSat Jul 1, 5:43 PM ET

Keith Borders tries hard not to scare people.

He's 6-foot-7, a garrulous lawyer who talks with his hands.

And he's black.

Many people find him threatening. He works hard to prove otherwise.

"I have a very keen sense of my size and how I communicate," says Borders of Mason, Ohio. "I end up putting my hands in my pockets or behind me. I stand with my feet closer together. With my feet spread out, it looks like I'm taking a stance. And I use a softer voice."

Every day, African-American men consciously work to offset stereotypes about them — that they are dangerous, aggressive, angry. Some smile a lot, dress conservatively and speak with deference: "Yes, sir," or "No, ma'am." They are mindful of their bodies, careful not to dart into closing elevators or stand too close in grocery stores.

It's all about surviving, and trying to thrive, in a nation where biased views of black men stubbornly hang on decades after segregation and where statistics show a yawning gap between the lives of white men and black men. Black men's median wages are barely three-fourths those of whites; nearly 1 in 3 black men will spend time behind bars during his life; and, on average, black men die six years earlier than whites.

Sure, everyone has ways of coping with other people's perceptions: Who acts the same at work as they do with their kids, or their high school friends?

But for black men, there's more at stake. If they don't carefully calculate how to handle everyday situations — in ways that usually go unnoticed — they can end up out of a job, in jail or dead.

"It's a stressful process," Borders says.

Melissa Harris Lacewell, a political scientist at the University of Chicago, says learning to adapt is at the heart of being an American black male.

"Black mothers and fathers socialize their sons to not make waves, to not come up against the authorities, to speak even more politely not only when there are whites present but particularly if there are whites who have power," she said.

"Most black men are able to shift from a sort of relaxed, authentically black pose into a respectable black man pose. Either they develop the dexterity to move back and forth or ultimately they flounder."

It's a lot like a game of chess, says 43-year-old Chester Williams, who owns Chester Electric in New Orleans. He has taught his three sons, ages 16, 14 and 11, to play.

"The rules of the game are universal: White moves first, then black moves," he said. "Black has to respond to the moves that the whites make. You take the advantage when it's available."

Twenty-year-old Chauncy Medder of Brooklyn says his baggy jeans and oversized T-shirts make him seem like "another one of those thuggish black kids." He offsets that with "Southern charm" he learned attending high school in Virginia — "a lot of 'Yes, ma'ams,' and as little slang as possible. When I speak to them (whites), they're like, 'Hey, you're different.'"

Such skillful little changes in style aren't talked about much, especially not outside of black households — there's no reason to tip your hand. As Walter White, a black sales executive from Cincinnati, puts it: "Not talking is a way to get what you want."

He recalled that, "as a child, we all sat down with my mother and father and watched the movie 'Roots,'" the groundbreaking 1970s television miniseries tracing a black family from Africa through slavery and into modern times.

The slaves were quietly obedient around whites. "But as soon as the master was gone," he said, "they did what they really wanted to do. That's what we were taught."

Historians agree that black stereotypes and coping strategies are rooted in America's history of slavery and segregation.

Jay Carrington Chunn's mother taught him "how to read 'Whites Only' and 'Negro Only' before she taught me anything else," said the 63-year-old, who grew up in Atlanta. "Black parents taught you how to react when police stopped you, how to respond to certain problems, how to act in school to get the best grade."

School is still a challenge, even from an early age.

Last year, Yale University research on public school pre-kindergarten programs in 40 states found that blacks were expelled twice as often as whites — and nine out of 10 blacks expelled were boys. The report did not analyze the patterns, but some trace it to negative views about black boys.

Black male children are often "labeled in public schools as being out of control," said Lacewell, who studies black political culture and wrote "Barbershops, Bibles, and BET: Everyday Talk and Black Political Thought."

"If you're a black boy who is smart and energetic and always has the answer and throws his hand up in the air," she said, "you might as a parent say, 'Even if you know the answer you might not want to make a spectacle of yourself. You don't want to call attention to yourself.'"

Bill Fletcher still has nightmares about his third-grade teacher, a white woman who "treated me and other black students as if we were idiots," he said. "She destroyed my confidence."

But his parents were strong advocates, and taught him to cope by having little contact with teachers who didn't take an interest in him, said Fletcher, former president of TransAfrica Forum, a group that builds ties between African-Americans and Africa.

As black boys become adolescents, the dangers escalate. Like most teenagers, they battle raging hormones and identity crises. Many rebel, trying to fit in by mimicking — and sometimes becoming — criminals.

"They are basically seen as public menaces," Lacewell said.

Rasheed Smith, 22, a soft-spoken, aspiring hip-hop lyricist from the Bedford Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn, recently tapped his long fingers, morosely counting his friends killed in neighborhood violence in the last five years — 11 in all. Few spent much time beyond their blocks, let alone their neighborhood. Some sold drugs or got in other trouble and had near-constant contact with police.

Smith has survived by staying close to his family. He advised: "With police, you talk to them the way they talk to you. You get treated how you act."

Twenty years ago, Carol Taylor's teenage son — now a lawyer — was mugged twice near their Brooklyn home, but police officers "treated him like he had done the mugging," she said. She wrote and self-published "The Little Black Book: Survival Commandments for Black Men" filled with tips on how to deal with police: keep your hands visible, carry a camera, don't say much but be polite.

"Don't take this as a time to prove your manhood," wrote Taylor, a retired nurse and community activist who said she's sold thousands of the pocket-sized, $2 books.

And more general advice: "Learn to read, write and type, and to speak English correctly. This is survival, not wishful thinking. If you are going to survive in America, go to college!"

One selective business program at historically black Hampton University in Virginia directs black men to wear dark, conservative suits to class. Earrings and dreadlocked hairstyles are forbidden. Their appearance is "communicating a signal that says you can go into more places," said business school dean Sid Credle. "There's more universal acceptance if you're conservative in your image and dress style."

One graphic artist says he wears a suit when traveling, "even if it's on a weekend. I think it helps. It requests respect."

But in the corporate world, clothing can only help so much, said Janet B. Reid of Global Lead Management Consulting, who advises companies on managing ethnic diversity.

Black men, especially those who look physically imposing, often have a tough time.

"Someone who is tall and muscular will learn to come into a meeting and sit down quickly," she said. "They're trying to lower the big barrier of resistance, one that's fear-based and born of stereotypes."

Having darker brown skin can erect another barrier. Mark Ferguson has worked on Wall Street for 20 years. He has an easy smile and firm, confident handshake.

"I think I clean up pretty well — I dress well, I speak well — but all that goes out the window when I show up at a meeting full of white men," says Ferguson of New Jersey, who is 6-foot-4 and dark-skinned. "It's because they're afraid of me."

"Race always matters," said Ferguson, whose Day in the Life Foundation connects minority teenagers with professionals. "It's always in play."

Fletcher knows his light brown skin gives him an advantage — except that he's "unsmiling."

"If you're a black man who doesn't smile a lot, they (whites) get really nervous," he said. "There are black people I run across all the time and they're always smiling particularly when they're around white people. A lot of white people find that very comforting."

All this takes a toll.

Many black men say the daily maneuvering leaves them enraged and exhausted. For decades, they continuously self-analyze and shift, subtly dampening their personalities. In the end, even the best strategies don't always work.

"I've seen it play out many times" in corporations, said Reid of Global Lead. "They go from depression to corporate suicide. Marital problems can come up. He loses all self confidence and the ability to feel manly and in control of his own fate."

Sherman James, a social psychologist at Duke University, studies how the stress of coping for black men can damage the circulatory system and lead to chronic poor health. Black men are 20 percent more likely to die of heart disease than whites, and they have the highest rates of hypertension in the world, according to the National Medical Association.

The flip side, black men say, is that many learn to be resilient.

Ferguson recalls when a new Wall Street colleague, minutes after meeting him and hearing he grew up in a housing project in Newark, N.J., asked if he had been involved in "any illicit activities" there. He shrugged it off.

Over the years, as he has earned promotions and built client relationships over the phone, he has learned to steel himself for face-to-face meetings — for clients' raised eyebrows and stuttered greetings when they see he is black.

"It just rolls off our backs — we grin and bear it. You can't quit," he said, sighing heavily. He vents his frustrations to mentors and relaxes with his wife and young children.

"Then you go back," he said, "and fight the good fight."
 
Fortunately, the movies have taught us that all black men do not acknowledge the law and carry weapons...

so we respectfully stay out of your way...

And the sista's don't put down the black man...

they're pretty well trained to stay home and wait till you get back from your dates with the white women...
 
Rambrat said:
And the sista's don't put down the black man...
Wrong and wrong again.

And a lot of black men don't date white women because they don't like black women - it's because black women don't want them unless they're rich, bone throwing thugs.

Black intellectuals, for the most part, are rejected by black women, until they start making money. But by then, they've been dating the only women who accepted them - white women - and they're not likely to come back.
 
you're talking about women in general...they'll always take a man with money over a poor man...

Intellectuals will find intellectuals...white or black...

we created this society...we teach them this...

besides...you don't want a woman, white or black, that wants only your money...

you're best bet is turning gay...

sorry

LovingTongue said:
Wrong and wrong again.

And a lot of black men don't date white women because they don't like black women - it's because black women don't want them unless they're rich, bone throwing thugs.

Black intellectuals, for the most part, are rejected by black women, until they start making money. But by then, they've been dating the only women who accepted them - white women - and they're not likely to come back.
 
LovingTongue said:
You know what, busyturd?

I understand two languages and you can't even master one.
you are better n me, Mr NEGRO

You mist be one of those

NEGRO INTELLECTUALS

TeeHee

Black Intellectual.......................Alsmost as FUNNY as WorkingBlackMan :rolleyes:
 
Rambrat said:
you're talking about women in general...they'll always take a man with money over a poor man...
Some moreso than others. Trust me, I experienced the difference.

No black woman wanted anything of me when I was a poor young male coming up in the ranks. But plenty of white women were willing...
 
busybody said:
you are better n me, Mr NEGRO

You mist be one of those

NEGRO INTELLECTUALS

TeeHee

Black Intellectual.......................Alsmost as FUNNY as WorkingBlackMan :rolleyes:
There aren't many black men as stupid as you, redneck boy.
 
LovingTongue said:
Some moreso than others. Trust me, I experienced the difference.

No black woman wanted anything of me when I was a poor young male coming up in the ranks. But plenty of white women were willing...

I forgot to add...

big dicks as well...

money or big dicks...
 
It's a sad state but one that will unfortunately continue for another few generations I suspect *sigh*

We do what we can...

How's life in the daddyhood, my friend? :)
 
Image said:
It's a sad state but one that will unfortunately continue for another few generations I suspect *sigh*

We do what we can...

How's life in the daddyhood, my friend? :)
Well the baby turned only a few weeks ago. That was the last potentially devastating issue. We made it to Anaheim and back. Now we're just waiting. :) We already know we're having a girl. Thank God. The statistics are almost all in her favor.
 
LovingTongue said:
Well the baby turned only a few weeks ago. That was the last potentially devastating issue. We made it to Anaheim and back. Now we're just waiting. :) We already know we're having a girl. Thank God. The statistics are almost all in her favor.

Here's to a healthy baby girl...

already know she'll be beautiful
 
Rambrat said:
Here's to a healthy baby girl...

already know she'll be beautiful


I second that emotion...

And for some reason I'm thinking she'll have your eyes :cool:
 
LovingTongue said:
Wrong and wrong again.

And a lot of black men don't date white women because they don't like black women - it's because black women don't want them unless they're rich, bone throwing thugs.

Black intellectuals, for the most part, are rejected by black women, until they start making money. But by then, they've been dating the only women who accepted them - white women - and they're not likely to come back.

lt, you're so disgusting. you really truly are. just the fact that i made that thread a while back, purely for fun and a few laughs, you've carried it around like a cross, like it freed you, because you can prove a black woman implied that black guys don't eat pussy.

i hope someone skull fucks you, at this point.
 
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-geisha.grrrl- said:


lt, you're so disgusting. you really truly are. just the fact that i made that thread a while back, purely for fun and a few laughs, you've carried it around like a cross, like it freed you, because you can prove a black woman implied that black guys don't eat pussy.

i hope someone skull fucks you, at this point.
Not to worry. Nobody but LT thinks that a Lit thread can prove anything.
 
-geisha.grrrl- said:


lt, you're so disgusting. you really truly are. just the fact that i made that thread a while back, purely for fun and a few laughs, you've carried it around like a cross, like it freed you, because you can prove a black woman implied that black guys don't eat pussy.

i hope someone skull fucks you, at this point.
a) You are not one to talk, having posted about 200 threads on here whining about how the black woman is put upon by everyone. Your moral high ground about your thread being a joke was long lost before I came along.

b) I'm not carrying any damned cross. I'm providing EQUAL TIME for men's grievances since you fucking women have tried for so god damned long to shut us up. You've had your time to complain. Now it's time to listen to the other side.

And I'd love to see someone try to skull fuck me. I promise you, that person and his family will be found dead. I mean that in all sincerity. I will not only kill the bastard who tries; I will also kill his family in front of him. Take that quite seriously.
 
phrodeau said:
Not to worry. Nobody but LT thinks that a Lit thread can prove anything.
She's being intentionally dishonest, just like you.

Geisha Grrl is pissed because she said something stupid, just like you do every day; and she's pissed that I also pointed out others who said the same shit she said, and she has no case.
 
Wow.

I'm part of an elite group of gold digging harridans that are destroying all things that are black and male.

So much power.
So little time.

But riddle me this: What is the purpose of exposing the evil incarnate that is the black woman to a board made up of a majority "white" demographic? What is it that you hope to accomplish? Is this the LT, public service announcement for the white folks who may fall prey to one of those calculating black wenches?
 
Yo yo lizzy B,

Don't call yourself put upon by my incriminations if the shoe don't fit, yo.

I already showed you several incidents where black men were maligned by black women - once directly, and two by third party account. You, for your own, less than intellectually honest reasons, chose not to respond to that.

We all know why you didn't respond to it.

Black men who date/marry non black women are with them because that is their preference. These men didn't need to be driven away, they already had a one-way prepaid train ticket to destination Becky.

You openly said you feel that black men who date outside their race do so because it's the preference. You said it, and you can't back out of it now; you've exposed the agenda behind your responses, and your agenda is based on some really stupid reasoning.
a) A lot of these black men weren't even accepted by their own to begin with. That's the truth whether you want to accept it or not.
b) An even bigger percentage just happened to find 'Ms Right' was not a black woman.
c) Very few black men SEEK out white women; but they do get the lion's share of attention.

But you're not going to see any of that. All you see is a black man speaking out and dispelling your documented prejudices and assumptions, and that's all she wrote for you.
 
LT why do you insist on spending so much time throwing your pearls to swine? It is frustrating to watch you debate a lot of these people. A particular favorite of mine is watching you and BB go back and forth, particularly because I'm not incapable of weeding through his offensive language to see the point which is often there and often more logical than the language he uses to express himself. Same could be said for Ish on occasion.

This part is pretty much for Lizzy. The fact that black women as a whole reject black men who don't fit into certain parameters is pretty well documented. Its obviously taken to its extremes in certain media outlets but I like to bring up Carlton on Fresh Prince of Bel Air or Braxton on the Jamie Foxx show. There is a certain ghetto attitude that black men are supposed to maintain. Hell look on TV when the average person thinks black do you think 50 Cent? Tupac? Wesley Snipes? Or do you think Powell? Will Smith? Bill Cosby? Obviously they are all black and that should be enough. The fact that the term "Uncle Tom" exists is proof that there is some defining element beyond the color of your skin that defines if you are Black.

I have a "black" girlfriend, she's not interested in my money. I mean she listens to Linkin Park, plays video games and can barely speak ebonics. (I can do it when forced. i.e. when I'm in a neighborhood where being "white" could be violent. I hate visiting relatives) So in short I'm not sure what is "black" about her other than her skin. There are exceptions to each and every so called rule, that is pretty much a given. It isn't fair for you to say that you stand outside a rule and that completely debunks the "myth".

Sterotypes don't just pop out of nowhere. They don't materialize from thin air like magic. If I were to say that all black women dream of being peed on by R. Kelly it wouldn't be true, nor would be a sterotype. Saying that black and latin women tend to be a bit "saucier" (i.e. will say thing to me that no man would ever do without at least recognizing that those are fighting words.) than white women is something many people would agree on. Why? If you think that this problem started in the media as I often hear who set this media? How did the idea start before the media got a hold of it? I hate the fact that so many black and "ethnic" films are so violent. Blood in Blood out comes to mind. But I've yet to meet a Mexican who said that movie was bullshit. The media reflects who we are it doesn't tell us who we are.

BTW I'm a bit drunk, good party so forgive me if I'm starting to ramble. I'll probably edit some of this when I wake up.

I'll riddle you this in the absense of LT though. The idea is to raise awareness amongst my peers. There are some of you here that I hate with a passion, some of you here that I like. Some that I wish I could sit down, share a drink with. Some that I want to share a "night" with if you're picking up what I'm layin down. The thing is that all of you are my "peers" you are my equals if on no other playing field than here. I express my opinions here in the hopes that I might convince my peers that my way is the right way and that their lives would be better if they knew what I know.

I realise that I am drunkenly rambling on so I will cut this as short and sweet as possible. I want every single person on this website (and the world) to be inteligent and make inteligent, logical decisions. So I spend time on this site seeing controversial issues and trying to change the minds of peoples that I think are wrong, illogical and irresponsible into people who are right. Why? Ultimately I believe that we are linked, it might be a minor way, it might be a major way. Who amongst us truly knows every single reaction to an action we take? So I try to make mine positive.

I promise to stop now. I believe in capitalism and greed, I've got no problem with calling myself greedy, intellegent but greedy. Because I help you, you should help me. Its a matter of timing. Anyway I doubt anybody even made this far into my rant. Late.

Its good to see you LT.
 
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