Reverse evolution: From Pervert to Prude?

I'm just putting this out there for feedback....

When I first met my SO he was much more likely to be very sexually adventurous, telling me at the time that he never thought he would find a girl as perverted as he was. We would talk about things we would like to do try together; anal, bondage, food play, spanking, public sex, threesomes, ect. These were all things that we could never get other partners interested in and we both were very excited about the prospect of getting to finally try them out.

We took our time discussing and sharing our ideas on the subjects, turning each other on immensly in the process and making sure that we both understood one anothers desires. We also decided that it wouldn't be up to one or the other of us to instigate these activities, and with everything seeming perfectly and equally wanted by us both, I waited in eager antisipation to what his first move would be, while plotting out my own.

First, it's been 5 years and never once has my SO asked things from me or accepted my offers to try anything kinky or taboo. I've tried to seduce him into such things, and he comes back at me like I'm a huge pervert and acts like things that he seemed so ready to go with years before, are now too weird or worse he just flat out refuses to even consider. It's like he's de-evolving from a fun pervert to a prude. Right now his idea of exciting sex is to do the same thing we always do...just in a different location from time to time,(maybe the couch, maybe the bed.....).

One of the things that really attracted me to him in the first place was that I was so happy that I finally found someone I was sexually compatable with, unlike my former boyfriend who seem to find sex dirty and embarrassing. I respect my SO boundaries, but am very saddened that I now feel like I can't share my desires with him or open up completely sexually with the one person that I want to do that with.

So what I'm curious about is how many of you out there have experienced this sort of thing as well? Were you the one that changed or was it your partner? What do you think brought on these changes in yours or their desires? If you came back from being a prude to pervert, how do you feel that it came about? If you are still in the pervert to prude stage, how do you cope with it? Is there any advice anyone can give me? I don't want to cheat, but sometimes I think about it too much for my own comfort.

handfan: me personally, i've only ever witnessed the prude --> pervert progression, never the reverse, so i'm afraid i don't have much to say there.

is it possible that he was scared by how far you were willing to go? and have there been any stresses in your relationship since those early, wacky conversations and the more repressed sex?

ed

I don't think he got scared by what I wanted because we seemed to be on the same page and most of the things we agreed on were things that he brought up first...me at the time being too scared and shy to be the first one to suggest anything.

We do have the standard life stresses, money, family members, ect. And we have very good communication going on....I guess that is part of why I'm so confused on this total 180 degree turn in sexual desires...it's literally like he is de-evolving.

Could I have really misunderstood a man who, while rubbing his cock, expressed a great desire to want to tie me up and spank me like a bad, little girl? Unfortunately, it's never happened...sigh. I'm really feeling like I missed the memo about the change in management between then and now.

I started to think that maybe he just didn't want to be the one to make the first moves so I tried to, only to get thwarted in the process. Now I'm becoming heartbroken about this, as well as angry. I will keep trying to spice things up, that seems to be how this is going to go down the road...I just wish there was some way to help the problem. I'm not asking for full on nasty kink, just a trip down those seedier sexual alleyways.

silverwhisper said:

..... is it possible that he was scared by how far you were willing to go? and have there been any stresses in your relationship since those early, wacky conversations and the more repressed sex?

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That's what I was thinking.

I think one always (most of the time?) thinks they are very liberated themselves. I see proof of that all the time here on Lit and I'm the same.
I always liked sex and I know I'm not a prude. I even consider myself open and in for almost everything. I'm good at it too!

But there you go; that's within my cadre of reference.
When I read questions from men who's women won't give them blowjobs or only want to have sex in the dark or what have you.... it says to me I'm quite "the catch" I let men (well, not all .... M in this case) cum in my mouth, all over my face.... I'm not shy, I tried anal (not a huge fan but will do it every once in a while to please M). Ain't I the greatest lover?

Probably not.

M is not complaining, don't get me wrong. (And I'll seriously need SW's trout to kick M over the head with if he starts now)... But he turned out to be even more "open minded" than I was. On the other hand.... he had far less experience and the ones he had were not very good.

Balance.... That's what it's about in the end. Searching and exploring your boundaries without hurting the other. Talk about it (I know you tried)... Still, I can imagine how he maybe wasn't as liberated / open minded as he thought he was. And it was a major shock to him to find out about the extend you were willing to go.... Could it be something like that?

HandFan said:

We do have the standard life stresses, money, family members, ect. And we have very good communication going on....I guess that is part of why I'm so confused on this total 180 degree turn in sexual desires...it's literally like he is de-evolving.

...Now I'm becoming heartbroken about this, as well as angry. I will keep trying to spice things up, that seems to be how this is going to go down the road...I just wish there was some way to help the problem. I'm not asking for full on nasty kink, just a trip down those seedier sexual alleyways.

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I think you should seriously consider marriage counseling. There is something going on that is going to take a professional to dig out into the light.

You don't say whether you're married or just in a long-term cohabitation. One possibility is that he's moved you from the subconcious category of "Girlfriend/Mistress" to "Spouse" -- where it's perfectly acceptable for a Girlfirend/Mistrss to behave in certain ways (Like Mae West,) but a "spouse" has an entirely different standard of behavior (Like Donna Reed/June Cleaver/Harriet Nelson.)

He may not even know that he's done something like that or it may be some entirely different problem -- that's why you need a professional.

It's not clear whether or not these things were said in the process of 'getting' you, I'm assuming they were then once you were in a relationship he hasn't delivered?

That being the case you may whilst he's thought he'd be open to all these things, the reality is now he has you he's found he's not up to following through for whatever reason.

I'll cite an example which whilst not the same situation is potentially similar in as much as any mind set change when putting thought into action.

I have a female friend who's husband decided he'd like to try swinging, they have a healthy relationship so it was discussed. She wasn't so keen but thought hey if it makes you happy then I'm prepared to give it a go. The only stipulation was she got to OK any guy involved, it wasn't just whatever female took his fancy and she was left regardless.

Eventually they settled on a couple, met up with them and had a couple of drinks. Now all along whilst she said she was prepared to go with the flow and see how it went she'd in her heart of hearts rather not but here she was. She also had an inkling that he might not be so cool with this in practice so she made the first move. She and the other guy started necking and he was obviously getting into it, she meanwhile was watching her husband for a reaction.

Sure enough he put a stop to it right there, told her afterwards he couldn't cope with seeing another guy even kissing her, never mind taking it any further.

Think the only thing you can do is make sure your SO understands how your feeling and see if he can explain why the cahnge of heart. If it does come down to something like the above you've then a decision to make, are you happy with what you have or not.

I'm not alwways happy with what I have but there are other non sexual things that compensate that I wouldn't be prepared to lose, different strokes for different folks.

M's girl said:

Balance.... That's what it's about in the end. Searching and exploring your boundaries without hurting the other. Talk about it (I know you tried)... Still, I can imagine how he maybe wasn't as liberated / open minded as he thought he was. And it was a major shock to him to find out about the extend you were willing to go.... Could it be something like that?

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I have asked him if he thinks I'm too extreme in what I'm interested in and he says no. But then he acts like I'm a huge pervert. (He often does this jokingly, but under the joking it sometimes feels like he thinks badly of me for my wants).

One of the things that gives me so many mixed messages is that he will bring things up once in a great while, and he seems really excited about talking about them, but when I ask if he wants to,(and I do this so delicately for fear of rejection), he will agree and then either turn me down when I try to entice him or do nothing on his end to make our seemingly mutual desires happen.

If I have to accept that he's just not into things I am into, that is fine, I love him enough to comprimise. But I wish he would stop leading me on only to disappoint me over and over again.

By the way, we are married.

HandFan said:

If I have to accept that he's just not into things I am into, that is fine, I love him enough to comprimise. But I wish he would stop leading me on only to disappoint me over and over again.

By the way, we are married.

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Then thats what you have to tell him, I agree there's nothing more frustrating than the build up and then no follow through...actions speak louder than words.

riftheotherone said:

It's not clear whether or not these things were said in the process of 'getting' you, I'm assuming they were then once you were in a relationship he hasn't delivered?

I'm not alwways happy with what I have but there are other non sexual things that compensate that I wouldn't be prepared to lose, different strokes for different folks.

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Sometimes I do feel like it was all for the chase of me, and then when he caught me, he just didn't have to deliver, kind of like now that I'm his, that he doesn't have to try anymore.

I should stress that although I'm here complaining, I really do love my husband...he really is my best friend and we do get along very well in almost all departments....except bed. It just hurts to not be able to share everything with the man I feel is my soulmate. Again, I don't want to upset him or break his boundaries, but it's not easy to feel like I need more all the time either.

Mostly I am really curious to see how many others go through this problem and how they cope...is it really a common thing between couples?

If I've read your posts correctly, your guy liked/likes talking about doing all the naughty things that you desire, but doesn't actually want to try them.

In my experience, guys who like doing the naughty things will absolutely pass Go and collect $200 as soon as they get the green light. They might get bored with those things after a while when they lose the taboo edge, but then they want to try something else.

Perhaps he never really wanted to do anything, and he just likes dirty talk.

If that's the case, he should be honest and tell you, but he might be afraid he'd lose you if he admits he wants to keep things the way they are. He may realize that you're a sexual mismatch, but not want to acknowledge it to you.

It's up to you how seriously you want to treat this. If this relationship works for you in every other way, then you need to make him understand that you love him and want to be with him, but you need more playfulness in your sex life. Suggest that you go to counseling, but if he doesn't see a problem, it's going to be tough to get him there.

Norajane said:

Perhaps he never really wanted to do anything, and he just likes dirty talk.

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This may be a possibility....I've wondered if he might have taken things too far in the beginning and didn't know how to back out of it later....but other things make me doubt this thought too......

I'm very willing to try a couples councellor, especially since in the last year he has started to develop performance problems, which may just be from being overweight and almost forty, but could be coming from other things he's not telling me.

I just want to say that I'm really not a nag like I must be sounding like...I really try to be very sensitive to my husband and not be angry at him for how me may just naturally be. And as to the performance problems, I am very realistic about how these things just do happen naturally sometimes but can be signs of other problems...I don't think him any less of a man for it.

HandFan said:

This may be a possibility....I've wondered if he might have taken things too far in the beginning and didn't know how to back out of it later....but other things make me doubt this thought too......

I'm very willing to try a couples councellor, especially since in the last year he has started to develop performance problems, which may just be from being overweight and almost forty, but could be coming from other things he's not telling me.

I just want to say that I'm really not a nag like I must be sounding like...I really try to be very sensitive to my husband and not be angry at him for how me may just naturally be. And as to the performance problems, I am very realistic about how these things just do happen naturally sometimes but can be signs of other problems...I don't think him any less of a man for it.

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Well, that's great for him, but what about you? Shouldn't he try to be sensitive to you and not make fun of you by calling you a perv for how you naturally are? It's not like you deceived him about what you need and want sexually.

True, true, true...... Maybe the price I'm paying for marrying a really good guy is that the sex will just be fine instead of spectacular, I guess you can't have everything after all....or can I? I always say, "You can, with patience, teach anyone to be a good lover...but if that fails there's always torture!"

Maybe it's time for the big, black paddle weather he wants it or not!

Your situation comes close to being a word for word account of how my girlfriend describes our sex life. A few years ago when we first started having sex we'd do it every night for sure and sometimes multiple times. Now she calls me a fuddy duddy because when I go to bed my first priority is getting to sleep. I haven't called her out on this but she's not being fair in her assessment of the situation.
First off four years ago we lived an hour apart so we only got to see each other on the weekends. We're not having less sex now, it's just less condensed. A few times per week on the weekends or a few times per week spread out over seven days. My sex drive hasn't fallen off, but hers has multiplied.
More importantly my work schedule has changed. When we met I was working second shift, but with my new job my start time is 6 am. When we go to bed at 11 pm on Wednesday night I'm going to roll over and go to sleep because I have to be up in six hours. On top of that she has the nerve to complain about my alarm waking her up at five when she doesn't have to be at work till nine.
Another thing that she points out is my lack of aggressiveness, or lack of desire to try new things. The only thing that's changed in this matter is her. Back in the day we used to talk about stuff like swingers clubs, tying each other up and anal sex but it was all talk. Looking back to the beginning we've never been to a swinger's club, I've tied her up once and she'd done the same for me once, and I've only had anal sex with her once. The anal number goes up by a few if you take into account the number of times I've put toys up her butt, and it goes up exponentially if you include the times that I've fingered her butt.

If my girlfriend were to tell this story it would sound entirely different but from my point of view I'm getting bitched at for not giving her enough despite the fact that she's getting more than ever. Keep that in mind before you judge this guy as a prude for not meeting his partner's needs.

I'm still not clear on what he's said directly about the change from perv to prude. I'm assuming you've laid all of this out clearly (but compassionately, of course), to the effect of, "You used to say..., but since X, you've said and done.... What has, or why the change?" What have his responses to this question been?

Also, how long ago did he change, and where were you in the relationship when it happened (engagement, newlyweds, recently)?

What has he said and done to indicate he's willing to compormise? If he knows this is a substantial issue for you, what has he suggested to try to ease it?

I'm just trying to understand...hopefully this doesn't feel like an interrogation!

At the risk of sounding like all I do is bitch about my lack of a sex life, I can relate.

When my wife and I were dating, she had a sex drive that matched mine, possibly even surpassed it. She was always willing to try new things. She had never done anal before, but I worked on her ass with my tongue, my fingers, and then finally my cock, and she loved it. She was also open to the idea of a threesome with another woman, although that one never happened. Just hard to find people who might be interested.

Somewhere along the line, something changed. It's hard to pinpoint where exactly things started to cool off, but these days, I'm lucky to get any sex at all. And I honestly don't remember the last time we did anal. As far as the idea of a threesome, she doesn't want anything to do with that idea anymore.

I think if I ever become single again, I'm staying that way for awhile. Possibly forever.

My ex husband played this frustrating game for about 17 of the 18 years we were together.

I was very honest about what I wanted & about my sexuality from the very beginning and he played his part really well & was extemely turned on by the things we discussed and planned to do.

BUT while it is fantastic for a guy to date a very sexy girl, apparently that all changes when you fall in love with her, because then she's YOUR'S !

Your husband, if he's anything like mine was, is still turned on by the things you talked about, just not with YOU. You are his WIFE and somehow that makes things different in their little minds.

Yes, I am angry because my ex changed his rules without consulting me or even considering my feelings. He loved me & I loved him & that was all that he considered necessary. I lived by his standards of sexual behaviour for all those years until I finally said enough. Every now & then he'd revive the old sexy discussions & plans, only to back down again at the last minute. This went on for years and somehow I was always the bad, dirty one. You start to believe it, worry about it, try to change it which of course you can't.

He was, of course, devastated at my decision to leave him & is yet to understand why. He threw in a few words like disgusted for good measure. Well, 18 years is a very long while to be patient and sorry, life is meant to be lived as ourselves, not as dictated by others.

Only you can decide what is more important to you as a person & whether it's worth staying & making do with what he's prepared to offer. Do remember, however, that his selfishness is preventing you from living life as you desire AND AS HE TOLD YOU HE DESIRED and if you decide to stick it out you may find that those years have sadly been wasted.

SweetErika said:

I'm still not clear on what he's said directly about the change from perv to prude. I'm assuming you've laid all of this out clearly (but compassionately, of course), to the effect of, "You used to say..., but since X, you've said and done.... What has, or why the change?" What have his responses to this question been?

Also, how long ago did he change, and where were you in the relationship when it happened (engagement, newlyweds, recently)?

What has he said and done to indicate he's willing to compormise? If he knows this is a substantial issue for you, what has he suggested to try to ease it?

I'm just trying to understand...hopefully this doesn't feel like an interrogation!

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I'm not offended by your questions, just so you know.

He started to change in the first year of our marriage and his response to me asking him why things changed for him is you say that I'm just more kinky then him and tease me about it, and then drop it. I get a lot of the standard responses when I do bring things up, "I'm tired", or "My head isn't in the right place for this now", which on one level I feel is sincere, but on another is just a way to aviod the subject.

Recently, on an occasion when I knew that he had watched some porn when I was at work, I asked him how it was and if he liked it. He said it was all great until the scene with the strap-on getting used on a guy. I am very aware that he would never go for the use of a strap-on and I do respect that wish. (Even if I secretly long to try one out on him...I just want to give him as much pleasure as I can, and maybe that could be another way to do it. But I know not to ask.) He said that the scene had been disturbing and laughed about it. I reassured him that I knew he didn't want to ever do that sort of thing. He then said something that struck me in a bad way, "Your just into all that kinky stuff...watch, you go out and find some other guy to do all those things with."

This really bothered me...One: if you feel this way, why don't you see if we can break a comprimise and try to experiement with me alittle so that we both have something special that we can share. Two: I swear he was reading my mind...I've gotten to the point where those thoughts are popping up, even though I don't want them to. I don't want to hurt my husband...I love him too much, but something is going to have to give, or I might end up seeking out play-partners.

Yes, he was reading your mind and trying to trap you with it too.

These born again prudes like to feel morally superior, now that they are following the "right" path themselves. He already gives you a hard time about your fantasies, imagine what he'll be like if you admit that you have thought of an outside play partner, even worse, done it.

His comments were not an invitation. Don't be fooled. I do think that you have to sit him down & have a big talk (remember, admit to nothing). Ask him straight out why he is no longer turned on by the fantasies you used to share, or if he was lying in the first place. Explain that you don't like to be in the position he's trying to put you in. Maybe he can't help the way he is now, but you can't help being you either & it might be time to make some hard decisions about your future together.

it is not right for one partner to change the rules & expect both to follow them, without talking about it first. There are heaps of men around who live with this situation too. OK, if you have little kids then maybe stick it out for a while longer, but it beats me why people think they have to "save the marriage" at all costs when in fact the marriage is satisfactory for only one person.

incubus'_sub said:

it is not right for one partner to change the rules & expect both to follow them, without talking about it first. There are heaps of men around who live with this situation too. OK, if you have little kids then maybe stick it out for a while longer, but it beats me why people think they have to "save the marriage" at all costs when in fact the marriage is satisfactory for only one person.

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What I don't understand is why they get married in the first place. He knew what she liked before they were married - so why get married when he knew he'd never do any of those things? Same with women who fuck like bunnies while dating, but don't really like sex and avoid it after marriage.

Why get married when you know that you won't be happy with what the other person wants/likes/needs? Even if it doesn't matter to you that you are dooming your partner to a lifetime of mismatched desires, but why do that to yourself?

I agree with that in general, but sometimes it marriage itself which changes one partner's behaviour.

In the case with my ex all was well until he decided that he loved me as his life partner, which somehow changed me from being a free sex partner in his eyes????

With women, it's often when they have kids that they start to feel it's not right for a mother to be a sexual being, plus they're often both tired & bored.

As long as the issues don't become permanent it's not a problem. All marriages go through rough bits and people change & grow. The trick is working out the problems & sometimes this just can't be done no matter how much anyone tries.

I really think that I'm going to recommend that we start seeing a counsellor...if for no other reason but to get to the bottom of my husbands reluctance. If I can really understand what is going on with him, then maybe it will be easier for us both to come to a comprimise. I thank everyone for your advice so far.

HandFan said:

I really think that I'm going to recommend that we start seeing a counsellor...if for no other reason but to get to the bottom of my husbands reluctance. If I can really understand what is going on with him, then maybe it will be easier for us both to come to a comprimise. I thank everyone for your advice so far.

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After your last response, I really think this is your best option. If nothing else, the counseling should help you deal with everything this situation entails, and perhaps it'll be a safe place for you two to compromise.. Best of luck, Handfan.

I think that's probably a very good idea too as understanding the reasons for problems is an excellent start.

That said, you have to be realistic about your expectations. Most people truly believe that they are in the right and go to sessions with the view that their feelings will be validated by this 3rd person. This 3rd person will then make the partner realise that they will have to change their ways & all will be well. Please be very careful about the help that you choose, for if they are a bit prudish themselves you may come out of it feeling even worse about yourself.

Remember also that understanding is good, but it doesn't make feelings & personalities change, even if the desire to do so is there. It's just not that easy. I have little faith in compromise as the basis for a happy marriage. As it stands, you are unhappy but your partner is quite happy with his standards ruling the roost. A compromise of any kind just makes both partners not quite happy, eternally unable to be themselves.

I'm going to reply a little less cynical than most of the others.

Is it possible that your lover used to "fantasize" about these kinky sex acts and once the two of you became regular sexual partners he realized that you fullfill his sexual desires without the extra kinkiness?

Possibly, in his past sexual relationships his partner(s) left him wanting more. Thinking that the average sex wasn't all that exciting, he invented an interest in kink as a fantasy to look forward to in improving his enjoyment of sex.

Now you enter the picture. He doesn't expect sex with you to be significantly better than with the others he's been with. So, he openly discusses these fantasies with you, in hopes that you are open to them so when he gets bored or is dissappointed he'll be making some progress on spicing things up and realizing his fantasies. Then, low and behold....you're awesome in bed! He's sexually satisfied by you like he's never been before. He suddenly realizes that all those kinkish fantasies are unecessary, because you fullfill his desires without the extra hooplah. Possible???

The only problem is he's forgotten how turned on talking about these things made YOU. Maybe he has overcome his desires to want more, but you still have expectations that those discussions of the past will lead to something.

I have encountered a similar situation with my wife. She's expressed some interest in bondage and other kinky activities in the past. We have had discussions about some kinky/fantasy subjects, but they were kind of in a humorous context. Several times I have made efforts to make some of her fantasies a reality. I've even gone as far as buying her some bondage gear, blindfolds, dominatrix styled costumes, whips, handcuffs, etc.. And we have played out a little bit, but she hasn't really shown the kind of enthusiasm for these things that I had anticipated.

I believe that the reason for her lackluster reactions to the kinky things is, like I surmised above as a possibility in your case, she's just happy with our regular day-to-day sex. I think that she's pleasantly surprised with how well our sexual relationship is. She gets off easily and I last a long time, so we can usually have really satisfying sex sessions without any props.

I'm a little dissapointed that she doesn't get all excited and pull out some of the things that I bought her thinking she really was into it. But, I also realize that what we have is really a great sexual relationship and if we get to a point where boredom starts to set in, we already have a supply of kinky items to stir things up with.

Just another way for you to look at your own situation. Talk to him frankly about it. You may find that he's actually very happy with you. Good Luck.