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21·Sept·2005 · "Pay Up" · wildsweetone

T

The Poets

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Jul 2, 2002
Posts
456
Pay Up

Steam curls from a Styrofoam cup
hot chocolate and marshmallows
stir her saliva. The cherry
chequered table is steadied
by folded cardboard shoved
under one leg,
and Steely Dan plays on the jukebox
down the back corner of Becky’s.
A chair screams, metal on concrete,
as an unwashed body shudders
on cold ground in the alley.
A growing red stain surges
to the storm water and a silver stiletto
protrudes from a fat gurgling gut.
She gulps the milky chocolate,
and pockets the rate he owed.​


Some questions made by the author:

1. Is this poem too short?
2. Does it get across an entire 'story'?
3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly?
4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved?
5. Do the line breaks I chose, work?
6. Should there be separate stanzas?

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Steam curls from a Styrofoam cup
hot chocolate and marshmallows
stir her saliva. The cherry

First, a question. Is "curls" a verb or a noun? Do steam (adjective) curls (noun) along with hot chocolate and marshmallows stir her saliva? Or does steam (noun) curl (verb) from a stryofoam cup? If it's the second, then you need a period after cup. Here's what I'd like to see for the first few lines:
Steam curls from hot styrofoam,
where chocolate and marshmallows
stir her saliva. The cherry

Don't ever change: "A chair screams, metal on concrete," Great line.

I'm going to think about the rest of it and the six questions. I wanted to comment on the first part while I had that thought in my head.


(I have no poem I want critiqued. Just wanted to comment.)
 
WickedEve said:
I'm going to think about the rest of it and the six questions. I wanted to comment on the first part while I had that thought in my head.

(I have no poem I want critiqued. Just wanted to comment.)
Click to expand...

I just want to add, since we're still somewhat on test run mode, that this is perfectly acceptable. You don't have to leave only "substantial" critique, and you don't have to do it all in one go, either. All the rules are pretty loose. :)
 
I think the story comes across well, WSO.

This poem starts slowly for me-- the details of the steam and the table are OK for fleshing the tale out, but they are not a hook. You have lots of action in this poem, but it is all crammed into the end. I would move one of the big three (her payment, the murder, the bleeding) to the beginning and snag readers with it.

There also some wonderful opportunities for reflection in the poem that I think you could do more with: the table leg and the dead body, the cherry chequers and the blood, the steam and the cold ground.

Good luck with this.
The Poets said:
Pay Up

Steam curls from a Styrofoam cup
hot chocolate and marshmallows
stir her saliva. The cherry
chequered table is steadied
by folded cardboard shoved
under one leg,
and Steely Dan plays on the jukebox
down the back corner of Becky’s.
A chair screams, metal on concrete,
as an unwashed body shudders
on cold ground in the alley.
A growing red stain surges
to the storm water and a silver stiletto
protrudes from a fat gurgling gut.
She gulps the milky chocolate,
and pockets the rate he owed.​


Some questions made by the author:

1. Is this poem too short?
2. Does it get across an entire 'story'?
3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly?
4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved?
5. Do the line breaks I chose, work?
6. Should there be separate stanzas?

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
The Poets said:
Pay Up

Steam curls from a Styrofoam cup
hot chocolate and marshmallows
stir her saliva. The cherry
chequered table is steadied
by folded cardboard shoved
under one leg,
and Steely Dan plays on the jukebox
down the back corner of Becky’s.
A chair screams, metal on concrete,
as an unwashed body shudders
on cold ground in the alley.
A growing red stain surges
to the storm water and a silver stiletto
protrudes from a fat gurgling gut.
She gulps the milky chocolate,
and pockets the rate he owed.​


Some questions made by the author:

1. Is this poem too short?
2. Does it get across an entire 'story'?
3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly?
4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved?
5. Do the line breaks I chose, work?
6. Should there be separate stanzas?

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hey WSO!! Nice poem, the imagery caught me immediately. You are good at that. I'm going to try to answer your questions, cuz for now it might be easier than using Ange's Critique. For me- I don't speak for anyone else.

1. Is this poem too short? Not sure- lets answer # 2.
2. Does it get across an entire 'story'? It does if you are striving for minimalism, in which case what we see is what we get. However, I'd sort of like to know why the guy got stabbed and was he a 'date' of the girls"? But thats not super important- our imaginations will fill in the blanks.
3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly? Yes. I have a good image of a seedy diner on the backside of town.4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved?
5. Do the line breaks I chose, work?
6. Should there be separate stanzas? 4,5 and 6 I'll answer by saying YES! YES! and a shrug. Stanzas are up to you. Do you want it to be an instant image? Because (imho) a solid poem does that. Stanzas create pauses- do you want that?


I like the poem, WildOne. I like the story questions in my head... drugs? prostitution? Strangers? Friends? Yeah- I like it!
 
Yep, you manage to get the story across. The contrast between the sharp imagery of the alley and the relative comfyness of the diner is really well played on, and works just fine for me.

The one part that I don't get is what the screaming chair (like eve said, a brilliant detail) has to do with the unwashed body in the alley. It seems to me that you ties two unrelated events together.

I don't think it's too short. If anything, I think you could trim it down a notch.

It is full of what you would call passive words. From, and, by, is, the, her, on, under, of, and so on. It's like the glue between the words with substance - the nouns, adjectives and verbs. And I believe that writing often is like carpenting - a good carpenter doesn't need many nails and lots of glue. Especially in a poem like this, where what you try to do is picture a scene and a mood, intead of playing around with tempo, form and style.

I think details can be present without being spelled out fully. You do that alot in the beginning, and I think you can compress that to gain momentum. Like the steadied table: "folded cardboard" is always "shoved under one leg", so you don't really have to explain that.

Well, that's my 2c. Best of luck.
 
I like this:
Liar said:
.... And I believe that writing often is like carpenting - a good carpenter doesn't need many nails and lots of glue....
Click to expand...
Oops! There's my first rule violation!
 
it's great to see this place up and running! well done Lauren/Mods! :rose:

i am greatly interested in the comments for this poem. you're all giving me lots to question in my own mind.

no matter how small your thought, it's always welcome. :)



Eve, as you're not finished with your comments, i'll answer your questions in case they are relevant to 'how you read' the rest.

it's the second option - 'Or does steam (noun) curl (verb) from a stryofoam cup?'

and i like how you've picked up that i don't need 'cup' as 'styrofoam' infers 'cup'. i didn't see that when i was writing.



fly in your opinion which would be the better hook, her payment, the murder, or the bleeding?

Boo - 'However, I'd sort of like to know why the guy got stabbed and was he a 'date' of the girls"? But thats not super important- our imaginations will fill in the blanks.' Boo, is the last line - 'and pockets the rate he owed.' - not clear enough? i might need to be more specific there.

Liar, i was thinking that the 'screaming chair' would be a contrast with the near-silent death outside.


thanks for your comments so far, they're much appreciated.

:rose:
 
"Boo - 'However, I'd sort of like to know why the guy got stabbed and was he a 'date' of the girls"? But thats not super important- our imaginations will fill in the blanks.' Boo, is the last line - 'and pockets the rate he owed.' - not clear enough? i might need to be more specific there."

Well, I'm not sure if she took what was owed her, or what was owed for the drink. It could just be your phoreign phrasing! lol But like I said- it's ok. It's my imagination that is triggered and thats the whole point, right?
 
Hi, WSO!

First, let me comment on your questions.

1. Is this poem too short? No, I think its brevity is a strength--several sharp details that form a vivid picture.

2. Does it get across an entire 'story'? Yes. There are some details about the story that are unclear to me, but I don't think it's important that everything be specific. Drug deal gone bad? Prostitute taking revenge on a client who wouldn't pay? My guess is the latter, but I don't think it matters.

3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly? Yes, ma'am. Though why Steely Dan is playing on the juke box is something of a mystery to me. That seems a bit incongruous--too jazzy and AOR for the otherwise gritty surroundings. Perhaps the incongruity is intentional?

4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved? Comments below.

5. Do the line breaks I chose, work? Pretty well, I think, but I typically have very little clue where line breaks should go or why. But I do like this series of words at your line ends: concrete/shudders/alley/surges/stiletto/gut/chocolate/owed. They almost form a skeletal poem of their own and I like the semi-haphazard rhyme scheme.

6. Should there be separate stanzas? No. I think it would disrupt the unity of the image.

Other comments:

I like the first lines pretty much as is, though since I read "curls" as a verb, I agree with Eve that that line should end on a period. I would not capitalize "styrofoam" which is generic enough I don't think needs it and makes the word stand out too much. I would consider reducing it even to "foam." I would leave "cup" for the semi-rhyme with "hot" starting the next line. I'm not crazy about the word "stir" but have no immediate alternate to suggest.

I might change "by folded cardboard shoved" to "by cardboard folded" but I also recognized that takes away "shoved" which foreshadows the knife thrust.

I find "A chair screams, metal on concrete," to be a little overwrought, though I can see you may be using it to parallel the knifing going on (simultaneously?) in the alley. And Eve said not to touch that, so you'd probably better leave it alone. ;)

"A growing red stain surges/to the storm water..." Can a stain surge? Are there puddles of storm water here? I'm not real fond of these lines. (Edited to add: It occurs to me that you Kiwis may say "storm water" where in my neck of the woods we would say "storm drain." If so, scratch the comment about "puddles of storm water" though note that we, at least Left Coast USA, don't call it that.)

"...fat gurgling gut" That is a wonderfully evocative phrase.

"She gulps the milky chocolate" Brings back the framing image and does so in a way that emphasizes her callousness. Very good.

"and pockets the rate he owed." I am not fond of "rate." It seems not only inaccurate (kind of like calling it a "tariff") but rather bland. Even a simple "cash" would be better, I think. There may be a slang word for this that would work well.

Whew! With poems like this and "The Wild Side," you're going to have to change your name, darlin'. "Wild," yes, but "sweet" no longer seems to apply. :)

Good draft. (Edited to add: Good poem. I see you already posted it an earned an "E" for the effort.)
 
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The Poets said:
Pay Up

Steam curls from a Styrofoam cup
hot chocolate and marshmallows
stir her saliva. The cherry
chequered table is steadied
by folded cardboard shoved
under one leg,
and Steely Dan plays on the jukebox
down the back corner of Becky’s.
A chair screams, metal on concrete,
as an unwashed body shudders
on cold ground in the alley.
A growing red stain surges
to the storm water and a silver stiletto
protrudes from a fat gurgling gut.
She gulps the milky chocolate,
and pockets the rate he owed.​


Some questions made by the author:

1. Is this poem too short?
2. Does it get across an entire 'story'?
3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly?
4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved?
5. Do the line breaks I chose, work?
6. Should there be separate stanzas?

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...

1. yes
2. not quite, the first three lines are full of syrupy sweetness - hot chocolate and marshmallows, The cherry...then a body in the alley. No hint of a reason, no inner workings of her.
Oh, he didn't pay her, and then she gulps the milky chocolate. She must be a pychopath, not to have any emotion like that.
So what is she, pissed? No indication of it.
A pycho, wouldn't matter much if he did pay.
This jumps too far without some rationale as to the action.
skipping down to
6. Yes, and more inbetween, the inner workings.
 
wildsweetone said:
Eve, as you're not finished with your comments, i'll answer your questions in case they are relevant to 'how you read' the rest.

it's the second option - 'Or does steam (noun) curl (verb) from a stryofoam cup?'

and i like how you've picked up that i don't need 'cup' as 'styrofoam' infers 'cup'. i didn't see that when i was writing.
Click to expand...
I don't know if I have much else to add that's different from all the comments you're getting now. I did read 12's comment about going from marshmallows to a dead body in the alley. lol Personally, I think it makes the poem a bit more memorable--and sick. Here's this stiletto wearing chick with a chocolate monkey on her back and death beneath her foot. Weird and cool.
Basically a good poem, but I am trying to decide if I, as a reader, need more or not. You describe an odd scene, but what lead up to it? Does the reader really need to know? I have one poem about a serial killer (female) and two about my serial killer, bob. The first one, serial sumi, was rather difficult to figure out for some readers, but I think a good chunk of the story is there. You may not know why she kills, but you should be able to figure out that she is simply a killer. And with your poem, I know she's pissed off enough to kill. It doesn't read like a planned murder. It seems spontaneous since she's drinking hot chocolate. And hot chocolate is so casual and warm and makes me feel safe like home. And in this poem, it's mixed with blood and an alley. Maybe, for me, it works because it doesn't really fit with the poem. And... this is kind of a rambling "critique." :)
 
comments in text.

The Poets said:
Pay Up

Steam curls from a Styrofoam cup
hot chocolate and marshmallows
stir her saliva. The cherry
chequered table is steadied
by folded cardboard shoved
under one leg,- this part bothers me for some reason. so much else going on and yet alot of emphasis placed on a table
and Steely Dan plays on the jukebox
down the back corner of Becky’s.
A chair screams, metal on concrete,
as an unwashed body shudders
on cold ground in the alley.
A growing red stain surges
to the storm water and a silver stiletto
protrudes from a fat gurgling gut.
She gulps the milky chocolate,
and pockets the rate he owed.​


Some questions made by the author:

1. Is this poem too short? I don't think it's too short as much as it's a little abrupt, which is useful to the poem, I think
2. Does it get across an entire 'story'? yes, but I had to read it twice.
3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly? very
4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved? lines 7 down the words "on" and "a" are repeated too much for my taste. In a longer poem or a poem with stanzas, it wouldn't be an issue, but with such a compact piece it stands out, imo
5. Do the line breaks I chose, work? yes
6. Should there be separate stanzas? no

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
The Poets said:
Pay UpSome questions made by the author:

1. Is this poem too short?
2. Does it get across an entire 'story'?
3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly?
4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved?
5. Do the line breaks I chose, work?
6. Should there be separate stanzas?

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks​
Click to expand...


Hi there. Will give my own feeling and interpretation before reading others and addressing your questions.

I have read the poem a couple of times, and you have some really strong images here, I think.

- Cardboard shoved under one leg
- cherry chequered table
- Steely Dan plays on the jukebox

these give me a feeling of memory past, or at the very least an old diner that still has one of those side wall jukeboxes. It conjures an immediate 'past' feeling for me though, and I love that it does, whether as afterthought in conjunction with the rest of the poem, or a long ago time, specifically something maybe 70's or early 80's.

I thought at first, the poem lacked a dichotomy, but getting to the end of the poem I see they are almost one and the same people. A whore/ waitress and a bumb, I imagine from my thoughts on:

- an unwashed body
- a silver stiletto

Was he a dine and dash, that she slashed, so to speak? Are there 3 characters? It's a bit confusing in this way. I know who got killed, but is "she" the same girl with the stiletto, working in a diner? I doubt it, no one working diner hours wears stilettos, unless they are insane. :) So I suppose to Question 2, I can only answer that I am confused about what the story is, and going to question #1, this makes it .. not too short, but rather just not laid out strongly enough.

For example. My initial thought was the lack of strong dichotomy. I thought instead of curl, you could use something stronger in allusion to the 'story' or that character. Styrofoam was good in making me see these characters on a similar economic level. "stir her saliva" is base, and goes into my thought about all characters being, well, poor. There are much more beautiful descriptions but it seems you avoid it here.

"A chair screams, metal on concrete" I really wasn't sure about this in the context. In fact, it was the least liked line to me of the whole poem. I think it refers to the death outside, but I don't think it cuts deep enough in that context. Scream needs t be altered ... to me. In this way, to answer question #4, yes. As for #6, I think there are two different scenes and I think they should be more clear.

After reading the questions and others opinion, my final thoughts are:

No offence to Eve, but poetry does not require grammar or verb and noun agreement. :devil: However I think that curl is not a great word to use in context. I also disagree with the word screams. It is not powerful to me. I think there are several different words that could go a long way toward the power the poem could have. I appreciate you love it though, and WSO will have to weigh the purpose of the poem with the words.

Boo? Its my indication from the poem that there are three characters. He got stabbed by a stiletto, and not a Naturalizer ;). He did not pay his bill, nor did he pay the whore in my eyes. :D LOL, I could be way off base, though.

Liar? I disagree that there is dichotomy.

- marshmallows stir her saliva? Thats cozy? How?

- cherry chequered ( nice image, and the diff sound of words is dichotomic, I agree. But nothing in the poem is a real dichotomy, which is how I TRIED to approach it at first?)

Anyhow WSO, that's the best I can do tonight. I hope something or another of what I have said helps you in anyway you desire. :)

Cheers.​
 
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The Poets said:
Pay Up - wildsweetone

Some questions made by the author:​
Click to expand...


1. Is this poem too short?

-- the answer should follow as a conclusion from the discussion of the poem. You may write different variations of different length. Possibly the more specific q. is: are there things missing in this poem? I felt that there were moments when I, as a reader, felt uneasy, when I felt that I was needing and missing bits of understanding (of information). In general, the reader does not need to have a clear picture of everything. It depends on the genre of the poem. Thus you may still go with this poem in one or another direction.

******

2. Does it get across an entire 'story'?

-- I gave a general answer, to this q., above. Now let me write specifically about the moments when I felt a bit frustrated by my inability to know what's going on. Once again, I am not saying that everything should be clarified. If you do not change the style of your poem then I feel that it should. Or you may turn it into a mood setting poem instead of giving a story. Right now it is 90% story and 10% mood setter, and this mix is not working for me in the given case, makes me feel insecure as a reader, confused (just 10%).

At first I felt that the table was on a private property. Then that it was outdoors but at a restaurant. This uncertainity is still ok.

The distance between the woman and the dead body was not clear to me. At first I though that they were separated, far apart, perhaps by the length of a short street, say about two hunder feet (forty to eighty meters). And at first I took that "pocketing the rate" somewhat abstractly. Then it seemed also possible that she takes money from the clothes on the dead body. That would be too much though. Either way it is not good artistically. There are some other small problems too (Liar has mentioned some), and artistically even small problems are big problems.

The storm water is not integrated with the poem. Again, the combination of an outdoor drink and the storm water makes me feel vague, starts the busy thoughts or questions in my head about how it is possible, what exactly was the situation. So I havew to decide that it was just after a storm or heavy rain but that at the time it was quiet and nice. Ideally, I should read a text without even knowing that I and my head exist.

*******

3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly? -- See above.

*******

4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved?

-- If we could sum up your style statistically then I would say it is pretty good. But like with a meal, even one unfresh item/element may spoil the whole meal. It's not that bad here but there are some doubtful moments.

First a tiny q.: why "Styrofoam" with the upper "S"?

Eve mentioned the ambiguity of the first 3 lines. Since you have punctuation, such an ambiguity is clearly unwanted, and the period "." is called for at the end of the first line. Or give up on the punctuation and on the lower/upper case, and then such an ambiguity in general is often allowed (even welcomed--but still far from always), and in this case too it would be less bothersome.

It is possible that you are trying to pack too much info in one sentence "The cherry...leg". It is not even sufficiently clear that you are talking about one-legged table. Logically yes, it is relatively clear, because the adult readers have enough of life experience (to many children this sentence would be strange). It is still a weak moment in the poem, because a reader shouild not strain his/her brain for trivial reasons, should not just because author does not make sentences directly understandable. Reader might and should on occasions use her/his brain, but it should be for profound reasons.

There is more to it, to this local difficulty with this text, something fundamental about "poetry--the art of words".

When you have "is" in your poem then be suspicious. Especiually when couppled with the passive tense. Try to rewrite not just the sentence but possibly and most likely a lot more.

We see that problems come in bunches. Unclear sentence (thus the weird sounding one leg--was it the woman's one leg? We know that it belonged to the table, but an awkwardness was already created). "Is". Passive form--twice: "steadied" + "shoved". This passive form is associated with a more serious problem (serious but many poets are not aware of it): these two words provide n on-poetic information or rasther reflect the authors knowledge, not the image as such. Poetically, the cardboard simply exists under the leg. its steading role is NOT an image notion, it is only the knowledge, and spelling it out is unpoetic, ruins the poem (somewhat). The same goes for "shoved". One should avoid such intrusions of the knowledge into the image. Keep the image pure, (If you have a present scene, keep it present, do not impose on it any explanations. I'll go back to it later in this or another post.

Is "stir" in the third line the proper/perfect verb here? I am simply asking, I do n ot know. It surprised me a bit.

I think that eve likes the image and happening of the "A chair screams, metal on concrete," line. There is a lot of good things about it, but the antropomorphism (the screaming chair" is not good, not at all. It may even bring to mind at the first moment a fat ass farting in the chair. The author should stay objective. Should juxtpose the chair, the sound, the metal and concrete, and should leave the connection to the reader--the author should not make such explicit connections, they should be always up to the reader. We see that even when a text strongly impresses a reader as strong as Eve, it still doesn't mean that that text is mature artistically. It can be still way better.

"unwashed" in "unwashed body" is poor, because once again you impose your knowledge on the text. Stick to the pure observation. The body and clothes were perhaps dirty. BTW, you could have a nice play on that dirty body/clothing and the storm water washing it. Write new versions of this poem.

The last line is prosy, very flat. It does not fit, languaqge wise, this poem. The rest of the poem has a much more poetic language.

********

5. Do the line breaks I chose, work? -- They felt natural to me.

********

6. Should there be separate stanzas? -- It felt good to me as it was. Once you start to write variations you may use different formats.

********

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

-- I had to force myself to follow your q's, and in the given order. Now I need a break, and the non-virtual life is making its demands on my time too. I might come back (but I never promise :)).

At least let me write, that you are painting the scene nicely. Your attempt at narration and action is pretty empty, poor, because after reading the text I don't care about anything in it, you didn't make it matter to me despite the dramatic or even tragic material.

Write new versions. I would forget about the money angle, and leave just the two part scene. Perhaps I'll make a suggestion later about a possible variation (but I am not promising :)).

(I'll proofread later, now I have to stop).

Regards,​
 
WickedEve said:
I don't know if I have much else to add that's different from all the comments you're getting now. I did read 12's comment about going from marshmallows to a dead body in the alley. lol Personally, I think it makes the poem a bit more memorable--and sick. Here's this stiletto wearing chick with a chocolate monkey on her back and death beneath her foot. Weird and cool.
Basically a good poem, but I am trying to decide if I, as a reader, need more or not. You describe an odd scene, but what lead up to it? Does the reader really need to know? I have one poem about a serial killer (female) and two about my serial killer, bob. The first one, serial sumi, was rather difficult to figure out for some readers, but I think a good chunk of the story is there. You may not know why she kills, but you should be able to figure out that she is simply a killer. And with your poem, I know she's pissed off enough to kill. It doesn't read like a planned murder. It seems spontaneous since she's drinking hot chocolate. And hot chocolate is so casual and warm and makes me feel safe like home. And in this poem, it's mixed with blood and an alley. Maybe, for me, it works because it doesn't really fit with the poem. And... this is kind of a rambling "critique." :)
Click to expand...
Let's revisit this, Oh Princess of Twisted, in yours there was a whole slew :rolleyes: of sickly thoughts (which is why I love your writing). There is none here, we are left to tie up two scences with one line.
"and pockets the rate he owed"
bang the end line. a punch line almost.

As possibilities:
Steam
stir (red, ring)
these words have a bit more possibilities, as is, they are good, but could be more tied to the emotional thought process.
marshmallows in chocolate, hmm, kind of reminds me of an unwashed fat gut.

Which leaves the word "surge", now kind of sounds like splurge, which I guess to a sick mind would be just desserts :rolleyes:

Good seeing you again, Your Sickness

WSO, these are suggestions, as is this: a quick dip into "The Stranger" by Camus, it still needs more "human"; about that much.
 
(imho)

I was going to write something else, but after all that everyone else has posted, and particularly the detailed analyses of Senna Jawa, CharleyH, and Tzara, there is not much left for me to add. So I present your poem and questions with the things I am less happy with in red. My responses follow below your quoted post.

Pay Up

Steam curls from a Styrofoam cup
hot chocolate and marshmallows
stir her saliva. The cherry
chequered table is steadied
by folded cardboard shoved
under one leg,
and Steely Dan plays on the jukebox
down the back corner of Becky’s.
~~~~~
A chair screams, metal on concrete,
as an unwashed body shudders
on cold ground in the alley.
A growing red stain surges
to the storm water and a silver stiletto
protrudes from a fat gurgling gut.
She gulps the milky chocolate,
and pockets the rate he owed.


Some questions made by the author:

1. Is this poem too short?
2. Does it get across an entire 'story'?
3. Does the image of the premises come across clearly?
4. Is there poetic language? How could this be improved?
5. Do the line breaks I chose, work?
6. Should there be separate stanzas?

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Pay Up

S - I agree that 'styrofoam' is generic and does not require a capitol.
stir - I understood stir to mean "start/begin" as in "her mouth began to water", but I agree that it is colloquial and perhaps not the best choice. (This assumes that my garnering is what you actually meant.)

The cherry
chequered table is steadied - Here I go to your question # 5. This line break failed for me. (Also "chequered" is an uncommon spelling in the U.S. where I am. Furthermore I am guessing that the table was covered with a "checkered" tablecloth. (?)

~~~~~ - This goes to question #6. Here is where I would make a stanza break because the tone of the poem changes dramatically. The lines before are all scene setting; those after speak to the actions taken.

unwashed - This modifying adjective implies a transient or homeless person to me. If you meant to convey that he was "crude" and just a "pig" it doesn't do that for me.

surges - This verb seems wrong. Blood may "spurt" from an artery, but once on the ground it doesn't surge.

water - If you mean "storm drain" as someone suggested then "storm water" doesn't work. at least in the U.S. - If you are referring to a puddle/pool from an actual storm then you have not established the storm.

fat - Unless you mean that the dead/dying man was a "pig", which is unclear - (see above) and not a transient/bum etc., this adjective is questionable.

rate - Again, rate may be slang I am not familiar with, meaning "an amount of money owed", as in a phrase such as "the going rate for a blow job is $50." (Don't ask if that is high or low, I've never paid for more than dinner.)


In the poem's defense, I feel I should mention "stiletto". Someone thought this referred to shoes. Actually it means "little dagger" and now refers to a long and very thin bladed knife. The shoe heel name derived from the knife (although the 'stiletto' heel can be used as a very good weapon).
 
Steam curls from a Styrofoam cup
hot chocolate and marshmallows
stir her saliva. The cherry
chequered table is steadied
by folded cardboard shoved
under one leg,
and Steely Dan plays on the jukebox
down the back corner of Becky’s.
~~~~~
A chair screams, metal on concrete,
as an unwashed body shudders
on cold ground in the alley.
A growing red stain surges
to the storm water and a silver stiletto
protrudes from a fat gurgling gut.
She gulps the milky chocolate,
and pockets the rate he owed.

Let's assume WSO does not want to directly assign any feeling to the people involved, but instead charge the surroundings. She starts out well with steam, hot, stir (red) all words that can be used to descibe an emotional state, undercuts it with chocolate, marshmallows, and cherry. Add a few line of useless information, ther table, Steely Dan, Becky's etc. Picks it up with the chair screams and "storm" water, two words in eight lines. Looks merely incidental, is is not through, it is not sustained.
Had she sustained this charging of the surrondings, it would have been genious, but a "cold" killing would have been better.
As is, it is structured like a joke, pieces of information with the resolution as the end line. Even there she had potentialities she does not folllow through with, a comparison with the marshmallow and the gut.
All other aspects are covered by other commenters, no need for me to Question the capital "S" etc.
This I perceive is it's fatal flaw, it doen't have enough tied together to let me know, that she knows what she is doing. It might as well have been a description of two trees, it is way too disjointed and surfacey for a murder. There is no thought, no feeling, somebody sticks a knife into somebody, there will either be thought and/or feeling.
 
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Rybka said:
In the poem's defense, I feel I should mention "stiletto". Someone thought this referred to shoes. Actually it means "little dagger" and now refers to a long and very thin bladed knife. The shoe heel name derived from the knife (although the 'stiletto' heel can be used as a very good weapon).
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Interesting! Did not know this tidbit, fascinating though. Of course, you forget context and culture? One must remember in our little world of porn, that stilletto does still refer to a whore's shoe.

:)
 
CharleyH said:
Interesting! Did not know this tidbit, fascinating though. Of course, you forget context and culture? One must remember in our little world of porn, that stilletto does still refer to a whore's shoe.

:)
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Well, it isn't really a tidbit. It is, I think, why stiletto heels are called that:

Pronunciation: st&-'le-(")tO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -tos or -toes
Etymology: Italian, diminutive of stilo stylus, dagger, from Latin stilus stylus -- more at STYLE
1 : a slender dagger with a blade thick in proportion to its breadth
2 : a pointed instrument for piercing holes for eyelets or embroidery
3 : STILETTO HEEL​

And, as such, is part of WSO's web of semantics building her poem. OK--we're talking here about a prostitute. Yep.
 
one techical note:
almost no one would leave a shiv in a gut, prints and the weapon behind, besides leaving a knife in has a tendency to impede the blood loss. This wound description probably would not be instant, even if a major artery where hit.
Poets have to think of these things.
 
twelveoone said:
one techical note:
almost no one would leave a shiv in a gut, prints and the weapon behind, besides leaving a knife in has a tendency to impede the blood loss. This wound description probably would not be instant, even if a major artery where hit.
Poets have to think of these things.
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My assumption here is that the knifing was not done by the woman, but rather by an accomplice (her pimp?) who is perhaps still standing over the victim and who hasn't yet removed the knife. Agreed that otherwise, the knife probably wouldn't be left.

Also there is indication that the victim is still alive ("an unwashed body shudders"). Dying, perhaps, but not yet dead.
 
thank you all for your comments. they are much appreciated. i've enjoyed the comments and the discussion. when i've ink in my printer, i'll print off all your thoughts and suggestions and work through them. thank you.

:rose:
 
wildsweetone said:
thank you all for your comments. they are much appreciated. i've enjoyed the comments and the discussion. when i've ink in my printer, i'll print off all your thoughts and suggestions and work through them. thank you.

:rose:
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WSO, I wanted to let you know that I DID read your poem, but felt you had SO many great suggestions, that I would wait and take a look with a new perspective when you do the edits. That way I would not be "married" to my original opinions (subconsciously or not)

So please post or send me your revision and I would be happy to go through it with you (of course, no time stress-- but the week between Christmas and New Years is a little tough hehee)

as

ps EXCELLENT idea to print out the comments! It is so hard to keep track, I have lost my mind trying to juggle too many opinions at once. Good luck :)
 
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