30th anniversary of the 1989 Tiananmen massacre

You do not get to define Chinese heroes...
I think Ayn Rand would disagree.





the NIGGER OH PEE poster is aghast over ONE GUY in front of a tank
not aghast, admiring.

while LOVING, CHE, MAO, FIDEL, HO, STALIN and MUSLIMS
You are one-sixth correct, bigot; but hey, your lord and master is bromancing Kim, and even winked at Xi a few times.


I could care less if ALL SYRIANS die after they KILL ALL MUSLIMS:D
So why should they do what they did, and why should China oppress its Muslims?


Hearing word that Russia, Syria and, to a lesser extent, Iran, are bombing the hell out of Idlib Province in Syria, and indiscriminately killing many innocent civilians. The World is watching this butchery. What is the purpose, what will it get you? STOP!
I think an interest in world events is good. Why do you cheer-lead for Trump? What will it get you, bigot?
 
I think Ayn Rand would disagree.

Thanks for outing yourself.

Rand was not Chinese and not of the Chinese culture.

Honestly, what the fuck is so wrong with you that you, with your cultural background,
feel that you can speak for the majority in China?


It's funny that you can so easily bounce between the idea that a minority in China
want "freedom" and democracy but only a 'minority' want Jihad...

You cannot judge on a minority opinion.
Right???
 
Actually if the Chinese Government then did not suppress the "uprising", by now there would have been warring fiefdoms all over the place. The Han would fight the other 50 or so recognized minorities and today China would be ravaged by infighting not seen since 90ties in the Balkans.

Most Chinese recognize that a strong central government ( promoting or suppressing all equally) is the only way to go.

The economic, military and technological success of China today is a direct result of the strong central and unyielding government.

China is not yet ready for democracy any more the Russia is .
china is trying to tell their population to 'forget' about Tiananmen... yeah, just try forgetting a country happily mowed down its own teenagers in the name of suppressing protest against wrongs. if being 'strong' means taking tanks and running over the next generation who dared speak out against those in power, then, yes, china was strong. go china, yay.

China's government has never revealed how many died in June 1989. Estimates by human rights groups and activists range from a few hundred to thousands. In notes declassified in 2017, the British ambassador to China estimated the death toll at 10,000.
ten. thousand.

ten thousand.

just let that number sink in for a moment.

ten thousand, mostly teenagers, mostly students protesting for a democracy.

anyone, ANYONE not horrified and disgusted by that has no rights calling themselves a person.

The protesters did not only want political change; they were also frustrated at the government's handling of the economy and the growth of corruption. Party leaders dismissed them as "counter-revolutionaries" and over the past three decades Tiananmen has become a taboo on the mainland, in what Tsui calls "enforced amnesia".

"One was to try and avoid killing unarmed civilians and especially not do it in front of the international media. As a result, Beijing has worked hard to keep subsequent massive human rights violations - like the ongoing arbitrary detention of a million Turkic Muslims in Xinjiang - out of the world's view."

The United Nations human rights panel said last year it had received credible reports that more than one million ethnic Uighurs and other Muslims are being held in "mass internment camps". The Chinese government says they are "vocational training centres" that are necessary to curb the threat of "Islamic extremism".

quotes from here: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...-crackdown-remains-taboo-190603075028075.html
 
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So interesting how in the Trump era — and Trump praised the Chinese crackdown at the time it happened — our conservatives absolutely cannot bring themselves to offer an implied criticism of Fearless Leader by saying anything remotely negative about Tiananmen Square.
 
So interesting how in the Trump era — and Trump praised the Chinese crackdown at the time it happened — our conservatives absolutely cannot bring themselves to offer an implied criticism of Fearless Leader by saying anything remotely negative about Tiananmen Square.

trump values "strength" aka dictatorship, hence his admiration for dictators and strong belief that his people should shut the fuck up and listen to him when he speaks, just like they do putin/kim etc..., etc..., etc....
he's like a puppy being tickled under the chin when he believes he's being given his due feting on trips like his u.k one now. he needs to be seen as a very very important man and will pitch a fit when anyone doesn't kowtow to him.
 
So interesting how in the Trump era — and Trump praised the Chinese crackdown at the time it happened — our conservatives absolutely cannot bring themselves to offer an implied criticism of Fearless Leader by saying anything remotely negative about Tiananmen Square.

Wouldn't want to insult the almighty CCP comrade....it would get the socialist scum around here triggered.

We all know you faithful lefties firmly believe in regulating tens of millions to DEATH in the name of the greater good....for equity....for the collective.

Those alt-right protestors deserved everything they got. :cool: #punchNazis.

trump values "strength" aka dictatorship, hence his admiration for dictators and strong belief that his people should shut the fuck up and listen to him when he speaks, just like they do putin/kim etc..
https://media.giphy.com/media/TNX7zcSNWMqS4/giphy-downsized-large.gif

Trump has Butters by the insides....LOL

Trump is a Troll of legendary proportions.
 
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Wouldn't want to insult the almighty CCP comrade....it would get the socialist scum around here triggered.

Well all know you faithful lefties firmly believe in regulating tens of millions to DEATH in the name of the greater good....for equity....for the collective.





Trump has Butters by the insides....LOL

Trump is a Troll of legendary proportions.
you're a very weird person to think that, let alone state it.
 
And he's dumb enough to think that entire i post isn't ascriptions.

Luk's, the USA hating communist stain getting triggered like I said he would is dumb enough to think it isn't.
 
...
Rand was not Chinese and not of the Chinese culture.
Rand stood for the individual, particularly when he/she was right when the majority was wrong.

Just because only a minority of Chinese want increased freedom and democracy—and we're not sure about that given the so-called "Peoples Republic of China" doesn't allow such polling—doesn't mean that minority is wrong.

Honestly, what the fuck is so wrong with you that you, with your cultural background,
feel that you can speak for the majority in China?

Yes. Many of us speak on topics we don't really know much about. This forum is filled with posts of this nature. Please provide a counter and tell me about how (the majority of) Chinese people love Communism and want more of it.

What's next, SpeareChucker: telling us that it's wrong to support dissidents of the North Korean and Saudi Arabian regimes? bellisarius is somewhat close to doing the latter.

It's funny that you can so easily bounce between the idea that a minority in China
want "freedom" and democracy but only a 'minority' want Jihad...
...
Probably because it's the case.

Most Chinese Muslims might want "jihad" insofar that they want an end to Communism that oppresses and murders them, but I doubt want to live like the Taliban. I could be wrong, but again, the PRC doesn't allow for much unbiased research.

You cannot judge on a minority opinion.
Right???
What are you talking about?




So interesting how in the Trump era — and Trump praised the Chinese crackdown at the time it happened — our conservatives absolutely cannot bring themselves to offer an implied criticism of Fearless Leader by saying anything remotely negative about Tiananmen Square.
Here, here.

The Trumpsters march in lockstep.
 
china is trying to tell their population to 'forget' about Tiananmen... yeah, just try forgetting a country happily mowed down its own teenagers in the name of suppressing protest against wrongs. if being 'strong' means taking tanks and running over the next generation who dared speak out against those in power, then, yes, china was strong. go china, yay.


ten. thousand.

ten thousand.

just let that number sink in for a moment.

ten thousand, mostly teenagers, mostly students protesting for a democracy.

anyone, ANYONE not horrified and disgusted by that has no rights calling themselves a person.





quotes from here: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...-crackdown-remains-taboo-190603075028075.html

We will never know how many died at Tiananmen Square. But I believe the overwhelming majority of those killed in the final crackdown were not students but the workers. There were really (at least) two groups/protests there. I believe it was the workers that really bore the brunt of the final assault and the later crackdowns.
 
I wonder if the left understand that the perpetrators of the T-square massacre are good comrades like themselves and that the protestors were "alt right" Trumpsters :D
 
I wonder if the left understand that the perpetrators of the T-square massacre are good comrades like themselves and that the protestors were "alt right" Trumpsters :D


(sources)
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Donald_Trump
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Goddess_of_Democracy_at_UBC.jpg
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...or-life-thats-no-joke/?utm_term=.76c0c1a653b2


(my bold)
When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength.
interview with Playboy, March 1990; quoted in the New York Daily News (Bury Trump in a Landslide, published October 20, 2016)

We have a very good relationship. People say we have the best relationship of any President-President, because he's called President also. Now some people might call him the King of China, but he's called President.
Interviewed by Lou Dobbs on Fox Business on the subject of Xi Jinping (25 October 2017)

The president of the United States apparently regards the leader of the Chinese Communist Party as a model. “He’s now president for life,” President Trump told supporters this past weekend. “President for life. No, he’s great. And look, he was able to do that. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot some day.”

Trump was referring to Xi Jinping, who is currently orchestrating a power grab in Beijing that hasn’t seen its like since the days of Mao.



Neither Trump, Trumpsters, and/or the alt-right (wp)—including many on this board, it appears—are friends of democracy, freedom, or the students and workers of China.



Btw, I'm sure CNN will be broadcasting a lot about that day today. CBC (radio at least) has been—including (I think) interviews with Arthur Kent and Patrick Brown. We don't get Fox. What are they saying?



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Goddess_of_Democracy_at_UBC.jpg
 

Yea? Looks like standard man child diplomacy.


Neither Trump, Trumpsters, and/or the alt-right (wp)—including many on this board, it appears—are friends of democracy, freedom, or the students and workers of China.

Based on the diplomatic lip service to the the lefties who have killed almost a quarter BILLION students and workers of China including the protestors at T-Square?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Jiang_Zemin_Shanghai2001.jpg/220px-Jiang_Zemin_Shanghai2001.jpghttps://scontent-sjc3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/68a83d503743134b611ce8c3c4d79b9d/5D8CBA50/t51.2885-19/s320x320/49594563_276713476303225_4057087727697395712_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.cdninstagram.com


I see your quotes and raise you some policy.


Trump has taken steps in policy (as far as exec policy can go) to protect freedom of speech from the socialist left here in the USA...unlike the leftist Chinese who stifle their students speech/expression, making US lefties jealous of the power of the CCP.
Executive Order 13864

Helped workers in the energy sector...Executive Order 13868
Infrastructure
Executive Order 13858

Maritime opportunities, security and conservation
Executive Order 13840

Among others...

Not to mention helping minorities.

Economic Empowerment of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders
Executive Order 13872

Quite unlike the Chinese left that are exterminating Muslims wholesale right now as we speak.

And the US left that are openly calling for the government to arrest economic growth, oppress the average individual by squashing their civil rights (mostly anti 1 and 2A rights as well as freedom of association) and ability to engage in commerce by restricting the individuals ability to produce and access the market. In that 1/3 case (the socialist democrats) through nationalizing major sectors if not the vast majority of the economy.

There just is not anyone or any segment of the GOP, nor individual that is as remotely close to the evil of the CCP, without a doubt the most murderous government entity that has EVER existed by a 200+ million body landslide. The notion is fucking laughable and trying to make Trump out to be similar is laughable TDS nonsense.

Btw, I'm sure CNN will be broadcasting a lot about that day today. CBC (radio at least) has been—including (I think) interviews with Arthur Kent and Patrick Brown. We don't get Fox. What are they saying?

Haven't a clue, I don't watch the MSM anymore.
 
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China lost some 30 million people in continuous warfare between 1927 and 1950. That is the reason for their obsession with internal security. As late as 1958 insurgents in far western China were still fighting the government.

In that context Tiananmen Square was an incident of negligible importance.

If similar circumstances developed today the government response would be the same. It allows western media viewers to feel morally superior, but the vast majority of Chinese would support stability over chaos - democratic or not.
 
2900th post

Neither Trump, Trumpsters, and/or the alt-right (wp)—including many on this board, it appears—are friends of democracy, freedom, or the students and workers of China.
Based on the diplomatic lip service to the the lefties who have killed almost a quarter BILLION students and workers of China including the protestors at T-Square?
If I understand your question correctly, yes—and I'll add whether those diplomats include Trump (at least as a world leader) and those representing leftist governments. I support trade with China and sensible relations, but all this fawning has to stop, and if such cost Xi's hurt feelings, so be it.

I see your quotes and raise you some policy.
As they're somewhat wordy, I'll probably read them later. My compliments to whoever drafted them. :D

Quite unlike the Chinese left that are exterminating Muslims wholesale right now as we speak.
This is where things like left and right get weird. Mao and Deng: who was more left-wing? Deng's pragmatism was certainly less murderous than Mao—Fareed Zakaria, in a debate about if Muslims were dangerous, cited that Mao said he'd rather see half the world burn if it meant the other half became socialist—yet it was Deng who's responsible for the massacre and a continued crackdown. Xi is raising it up. Papa Bush, for whatever his big faults were, didn't suck up to Deng as much as Trump does Xi, and many conservatives/rightists, regularly—to their credit—criticized China on human rights, including about Tianamen, in them days. Our former Conservative PM Harper, for whatever his big faults were, meet the Dalai Lama however it might have ticked off the Chinese.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ex...e-to-canada-under-resettlement-plan-1.2445180
https://www.straight.com/blogra/caption-political-photo-stephen-harper-shakes-hands-dalai-lama

https://i.cbc.ca/1.2445223.1385744907!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/harper-dalai-lama.jpg https://d2ciprw05cjhos.cloudfront.net/files/v3/styles/gs_large/public/2012/10/HarperLama.jpg?itok=P1-XS2aB

[size=-2](Paul Martin being the last Liberal PM before Trudeau)[/size]


And the US left that are openly calling for the government to arrest economic growth, oppress the average individual by squashing their civil rights (mostly anti 1 and 2A rights as well as freedom of association) and ability to engage in commerce by restricting the individuals ability to produce and access the market. In that 1/3 case (the socialist democrats) through nationalizing major sectors if not the vast majority of the economy.
I'd say that's true with some elements of the American left, and though I readily admit my ignorance of the proportion, I doubt those elements are as big, extreme, and conformist as some rightist and/or conservatives would have us believe.

There just is not anyone or any segment of the GOP, nor individual that is as remotely close to the evil of the CCP, without a doubt the most murderous government entity that has EVER existed by a 200+ million body landslide.
mostly agree (I'm not sure it was 200 million, though).

The notion is fucking laughable and trying to make Trump out to be similar is laughable TDS nonsense.
a notion I'm not promoting.


Btw, I'm sure CNN will be broadcasting a lot about that day today. CBC (radio at least) has been—including (I think) interviews with Arthur Kent and Patrick Brown. We don't get Fox. What are they saying?
Haven't a clue, I don't watch the MSM anymore.
Btw, what do you watch/listen to?

any good rightist/conservative media that's reliable and doesn't rely too much on bigotry (however packaged as not being so), no commercials (or at least not too many), nor treats people as if they didn't remember the past several years (including willful ignorance)? I figure such would help counter/compliment of my consuming an admittedly left-wing media.

What is the alt-media reporting about Tiananmen, if anything.


(Lastly, "T-Square": I like. :D)




China lost some 30 million people in continuous warfare between 1927 and 1950.
1950: that was almost 70 years ago and almost 40 years before Tiananmen. Some of that warfare was the invasion by Japan and KMT fighting the Communists. It seems that the emperor's autocratic ways didn't help his people (or Chinese people as (I think) he was arguably not Chinese) deal with the 20th century (or any century at that).

As late as 1958 insurgents in far western China were still fighting the government.
Would these be places, like Tibet, that probably should be independent?

If similar circumstances developed today the government response would be the same.
Who knows if it's happened already since: peaceful protesters being savagely repressed by the-one-Trump-relates-so-well-with.

It allows western media viewers to feel morally superior, but the vast majority of Chinese would support stability over chaos - democratic or not.
as if the alternative to dictatorship, and a Communist one at that, is chaos.






FWIW


CBC:

From hope to despair: Remembering Tiananmen everywhere except where it happened
'The student leaders never thought they would mobilize so many people'
Saša Petricic · CBC News · Posted: Jun 04, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 11 hours ago

for both the 7:29 audio and transcript:
Journalist Arthur Kent releases remastered footage from Tiananmen Square massacre
CBC Radio · Posted: Jun 03, 2019 6:25 PM ET | Last Updated: 11 hours ago

'No one expected AK-47s': Journalist Jan Wong on reporting from the Tiananmen Square massacre
CBC News · Posted: Jun 04, 2019 1:53 PM PT | Last Updated: 6 hours ago


Fox:

China tightens security 30 years after Tiananmen Square protests
Jun. 04, 2019 - 2:06 - The anniversary isn't officially acknowledged in China and authorities have cracked down on dissidents speaking out about it; Kitty Logan reports from London.
2:06


Al Jazeera

China rises but 30 years after Tiananmen, crackdown remains taboo
by Kate Mayberry
18 hours ago
 
It seemed, at the time, such a powerful moment on the world stage. The ultimate lack of impact on Chinese oppression of the citizenry speaks to the power welded.
 
It is amusing to see you pushing Rand and telling me how I should think
and how important individualism is and how I should support any Chinese variant


but what you ignore is the totality of Chinese culture which is not 'oriented'
upon the individual but the family and the state.

In proper context, the man standing up to the tank was, in fact,
an enemy of the family. As pointed out before, the Chinese value stability
much more than the whims of an individual and, as much as we may talk about it,
we, Aristotle's slaves, repeatedly reject individuality for the stability and security of the State.

He was nothing more than an Antifa anarchist.
 
It seemed, at the time, such a powerful moment on the world stage. The ultimate lack of impact on Chinese oppression of the citizenry speaks to the power welded.

It was a powerful moment only inasmuch as it made for good television and

the selling of soap...

Verstehe?
 
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