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Authors/Artists...should we take a cue here?

poppy1963

poppy1963

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Authors/Artists/AmPic Posters...should we take a cue here?

Because Literotica has become sooooooo compartmentalized, I am posting this to the AH and AmPics as well.

:eek: On the GB there have been increasing views but NO responses to these questions. Uma lookin' at the "writing on the wall" so to speak...makin' me nervous a bit that the only reactions are from thread derailers....

Example of Message Board Self-Destruct Mode in Full Force

An Honest Inquiry and Concern

Death of a porn site? :) ?
 
Last edited:
poppy1963 said:
Because Literotica has become sooooooo compartmentalized, I am posting this to the AH and AmPics as well.

:eek: On the GB there have been increasing views but NO responses to these questions. Uma lookin' at the "writing on the wall" so to speak...makin' me nervous a bit that the only reactions are from thread derailers....

Example of Message Board Self-Destruct Mode in Full Force

An Honest Inquiry and Concern

Death of a porn site? :) ?
Click to expand...
I'll answer you here, if that's all right :)


I was part of a forum community that was derailed, and in fact I was one of the derailors. The forum was set up by a publishing company; each author had a homepage and news feed, and a forum for fans. But- the publishing company did not maintain or moderate the forums in any way, that was, evidently, up to the individual authors. Some forums had no traffic, some were moderated correctly. This particualr author had many many fans, and his forum was very busy. It had been homesteaded by a core group, much in the way the AH has been. But since there ws no way to ask that trolls or spam be removed, the group had developed truly effective fighting techniques. The problem was that the defensive mechanism was self-feeding, and occasionally the core group would turn on one of its own.
After one, two, three women were driven out, I protested, and found, go figure, that I was the next target. And yes, the fact that I am a woman was part of it- we were all called "Biddies" among other things. It was the ugliest thing I've ever endured (I'm glad to say that, actually) and I left. But one of the things I tried to say during my fruitless fight, was that the group ought to create themselves a new forum where they could maintain it themselves and remove this need for nuclear weaponry, so to speak. I also CALLED the publishing company to say that they needed to do something about that forum. At that time, the guy I talked to was rather amazed that anyone would take internet life seriously. I said that although He didn't get it, he should understand that many many people DO feel that way.

A couple years later, I went back to see what was going on, and found the core group still there, and forum under attack. I won't describe the technique, but it is incredibly effective. And I created a new trouble-maker's handle and joined right in. I would drop by each day, spend twenty-thirty minutes sowing chaos, and it was obvious that five or six other folk were doing the same thing. It was impossible for the regulars to keep track of their real conversations.
They did, in fact, finally give up ,and created a new forum, and I'm glad to say that it's flourishing- but I assure you, without me. I lurked for a while, out of curiosity, and it was fascinating to watch things simmer down- to the point where the "warriors" and in particular one man who is probably a bit of a sociopath, gewt told to shut up and put the past behind them if they wanted to stay in the new forums.

As for the original site, a friend of the author found out about the state of disrepair. She told him, and he complained to the publisher- and there are two moderators there, an enormous community, and all is well...


AS far as Lit's GB goes, I went there when I first came to Lit. All I could find were flame wars and I'd had enough of that. I did not want to be somewhere where top posts were about what a cunt some other person is. I found a few conversations, but my ignore list was already full, and I was nowhere near a comfort zone.

I wandered around for a bit, till I discovered the AH, and it's been my home forum for quite a while now :heart:
 
Stella_Omega said:
I'll answer you here, if that's all right :)


I was part of a forum community that was derailed, and in fact I was one of the derailors. The forum was set up by a publishing company; each author had a homepage and news feed, and a forum for fans. But- the publishing company did not maintain or moderate the forums in any way, that was, evidently, up to the individual authors. Some forums had no traffic, some were moderated correctly. This particualr author had many many fans, and his forum was very busy. It had been homesteaded by a core group, much in the way the AH has been. But since there ws no way to ask that trolls or spam be removed, the group had developed truly effective fighting techniques. The problem was that the defensive mechanism was self-feeding, and occasionally the core group would turn on one of its own.
After one, two, three women were driven out, I protested, and found, go figure, that I was the next target. And yes, the fact that I am a woman was part of it- we were all called "Biddies" among other things. It was the ugliest thing I've ever endured (I'm glad to say that, actually) and I left. But one of the things I tried to say during my fruitless fight, was that the group ought to create themselves a new forum where they could maintain it themselves and remove this need for nuclear weaponry, so to speak. I also CALLED the publishing company to say that they needed to do something about that forum. At that time, the guy I talked to was rather amazed that anyone would take internet life seriously. I said that although He didn't get it, he should understand that many many people DO feel that way.

A couple years later, I went back to see what was going on, and found the core group still there, and forum under attack. I won't describe the technique, but it is incredibly effective. And I created a new trouble-maker's handle and joined right in. I would drop by each day, spend twenty-thirty minutes sowing chaos, and it was obvious that five or six other folk were doing the same thing. It was impossible for the regulars to keep track of their real conversations.
They did, in fact, finally give up ,and created a new forum, and I'm glad to say that it's flourishing- but I assure you, without me. I lurked for a while, out of curiosity, and it was fascinating to watch things simmer down- to the point where the "warriors" and in particular one man who is probably a bit of a sociopath, gewt told to shut up and put the past behind them if they wanted to stay in the new forums.

As for the original site, a friend of the author found out about the state of disrepair. She told him, and he complained to the publisher- and there are two moderators there, an enormous community, and all is well...


AS far as Lit's GB goes, I went there when I first came to Lit. All I could find were flame wars and I'd had enough of that. I did not want to be somewhere where top posts were about what a cunt some other person is. I found a few conversations, but my ignore list was already full, and I was nowhere near a comfort zone.

I wandered around for a bit, till I discovered the AH, and it's been my home forum for quite a while now :heart:
Click to expand...

Thank you, Stella! I've seen similar processes on other types of Boards where the moderation was poor...the difference being though that those Boards did not host the amount of WORK and CREATIVE endeavors we see at Lit that could be lost.

I am just curious if that kind of thing is underway here and, if so, why? I am also curious as to why admins allow it to happen. It appears a conscious "allowance". I also wonder if there have been studies done delineating the stages of this. I've already begun moving my little pool of work to one or two threads and backing it up...

I would hate to see Lit go this route but sometimes I see some telltale signs I think...and so I am inquiring about this stuff.

Thank you for your input and it is a VERY INTERESTING process you describe...one that had not occurred to me. I DO see an increased "organization" among the NASTY trolling factor and I suspect strongly it is NOT random nor disconnected. I just don't know from where it is originating or why it is permitted so readily. Have you seen the RACISM blatantly stated and ignored by admin on the GB. I mean...it seems to me that in itself would be a violation of some TOS that could result in the abrupt shutting down of this whole site.

Buyer beware (so to speak)...:eek:
 
The Author's Hangout is unmoderated.

In theory it could be exactly the same as the General Board. The only reason it isn't is because this community wants the AH to be a reasonable place.

When attacked, we will respond but in a literary way. Treat us as potential friends and that's what we are. Treat as as enemies and that's how some of us will respond.

We are not immune from unpleasantness. We try to minimise it.

Og
 
poppy1963 said:
Thank you for your input and it is a VERY INTERESTING process you describe...one that had not occurred to me. I DO see an increased "organization" among the NASTY trolling factor and I suspect strongly it is NOT random nor disconnected. I just don't know from where it is originating or why it is permitted so readily. Have you seen the RACISM blatantly stated and ignored by admin on the GB. I mean...it seems to me that in itself would be a violation of some TOS that could result in the abrupt shutting down of this whole site.

Buyer beware (so to speak)...:eek:
Click to expand...
*shrug* that's what the GB is like, honey. I've been here for about two years, and it's always been that way. That's why I'm here at AH and that's why I didn't answer you on the thread in the GB. I don't have the stomach for it.

You might have noticed the racist speech, but I've noticed insults of every possible variety. The joy is spread across as many fields as it's possible to be. You can't really isolate racist insults and ignore the white-haters. There is misogyny and anti-male sentiment, the homophobics, the breeder-bashers, and some people who detest and deride clowns. And a great deal of it is personal.

When I first came here, I reported some threads that struck me as egregious, but it should be obvious that the mods have made a decision to allow unbridled speech there. And, in fact, they have the right to do so. This is NOT public space, it's privately owned. It's like any other establishment- it can decide whether to allow shorts and sandals or to insist on dinner jackets. So to speak.

I won't be there, but there are many people who do want to be there. Who are you to decide for them?
 
poppy1963 said:
Because Literotica has become sooooooo compartmentalized, I am posting this to the AH and AmPics as well.

:eek: On the GB there have been increasing views but NO responses to these questions. Uma lookin' at the "writing on the wall" so to speak...makin' me nervous a bit that the only reactions are from thread derailers....

Example of Message Board Self-Destruct Mode in Full Force

An Honest Inquiry and Concern

Death of a porn site? :) ?
Click to expand...

In the two years and some odd months that I've been at Lit, I think I've looked at the GB once...there's nothing at all there that interests me....
 
Stella_Omega said:
*shrug* that's what the GB is like, honey. I've been here for about two years, and it's always been that way. That's why I'm here at AH and that's why I didn't answer you on the thread in the GB. I don't have the stomach for it.

You might have noticed the racist speech, but I've noticed insults of every possible variety. The joy is spread across as many fields as it's possible to be. You can't really isolate racist insults and ignore the white-haters. There is misogyny and anti-male sentiment, the homophobics, the breeder-bashers, and some people who detest and deride clowns. And a great deal of it is personal.

When I first came here, I reported some threads that struck me as egregious, but it should be obvious that the mods have made a decision to allow unbridled speech there. And, in fact, they have the right to do so. This is NOT public space, it's privately owned. It's like any other establishment- it can decide whether to allow shorts and sandals or to insist on dinner jackets. So to speak.

I won't be there, but there are many people who do want to be there. Who are you to decide for them?
Click to expand...

You are right about all the other stuff there!

And I am not deciding others should not be there...where did you get that from my posts? But what happens there can affect the whole of Lit...The dedicated server would not shut down just the GB...it would shut down LITEROTICA if it came to that. That's all.

Is that not true? :)
 
oggbashan said:
The Author's Hangout is unmoderated.

In theory it could be exactly the same as the General Board. The only reason it isn't is because this community wants the AH to be a reasonable place.

When attacked, we will respond but in a literary way. Treat us as potential friends and that's what we are. Treat as as enemies and that's how some of us will respond.

We are not immune from unpleasantness. We try to minimise it.

Og
Click to expand...

And I will say as well, I've actually seen some AH'ers bring some of that to the GB and I applauded those whole-heartedly and publicly. I don't want the GB to become as the other forums...I argue a few times a week on that point. I LIKE much of it...I like some of the controversy and, yes, some of the drama as well! I would not be here on a "literary" based porn board if I didn't.

I think the AH does well with self-moderation! Just goes to show, it can be done. :D
 
poppy1963 said:
You are right about all the other stuff there!

And I am not deciding others should not be there...where did you get that from my posts? But what happens there can affect the whole of Lit...The dedicated server would not shut down just the GB...it would shut down LITEROTICA if it came to that. That's all.

Is that not true? :)
Click to expand...
Too many variables to be able to say if it's true or not.

There may be more than one server contract handling Lit.
The servers might be owned by the site owners.
The servers might be owned by people who commonly hang out on the GB, and love porn. There are servers out there who are cater to nothing else except XXX sites. Boucoup of them.
And free speech is still protected by our (somewhat tattered) constitution.

I think the AH does well with self-moderation! Just goes to show, it can be done.
Click to expand...
The GB self-moderates as well, only not in a way that you or I are comfortable with :)
 
Stella_Omega said:
Too many variables to be able to say if it's true or not.

There may be more than one server contract handling Lit.
The servers might be owned by the site owners.
The servers might be owned by people who commonly hang out on the GB, and love porn. There are servers out there who are cater to nothing else except XXX sites. Boucoup of them.
And free speech is still protected by our (somewhat tattered) constitution.

The GB self-moderates as well, only not in a way that you or I are comfortable with :)
Click to expand...

Ohhhh...there we go! Thank you Stella_Omega! I was not aware of the concept of multiple server contracts! All I know is all of a sudden, was it Photobucket?, discontinued it's business with Lit killing all or many of the porn photos posted here that were hosted by members of their website. Now...Lit had been Lit for a long time...but all of a sudden, the rules changed (were enforced) creating a problem for a lot of folks here. Why the change of heart? I don't know...but it DID happen! Now, I've found a new photo host for some of the pics I've posted here (far from XXX but not acceptable by the TOS of my regular photo host either). I've only lost 2 pics...some others here lost 200 from their work on Lit (example..may be exaggerated number there). :)
 
poppy1963 said:
Ohhhh...there we go! Thank you Stella_Omega! I was not aware of the concept of multiple server contracts! All I know is all of a sudden, was it Photobucket?, discontinued it's business with Lit killing all or many of the porn photos posted here that were hosted by members of their website. Now...Lit had been Lit for a long time...but all of a sudden, the rules changed (were enforced) creating a problem for a lot of folks here. Why the change of heart? I don't know...but it DID happen! Now, I've found a new photo host for some of the pics I've posted here (far from XXX but not acceptable by the TOS of my regular photo host either). I've only lost 2 pics...some others here lost 200 from their work on Lit (example..may be exaggerated number there). :)
Click to expand...

Photobucket didn't "discontinue" its business with Lit, it just made the business decision not to host photos of that type. Lit had nothing to do with it.

I see your point, but some of what you're saying sounds like paranoia.
 
poppy1963 said:
Ohhhh...there we go! Thank you Stella_Omega! I was not aware of the concept of multiple server contracts! All I know is all of a sudden, was it Photobucket?, discontinued it's business with Lit killing all or many of the porn photos posted here that were hosted by members of their website. Now...Lit had been Lit for a long time...but all of a sudden, the rules changed (were enforced) creating a problem for a lot of folks here. Why the change of heart? I don't know...but it DID happen! Now, I've found a new photo host for some of the pics I've posted here (far from XXX but not acceptable by the TOS of my regular photo host either). I've only lost 2 pics...some others here lost 200 from their work on Lit (example..may be exaggerated number there). :)
Click to expand...
OH! you're asking about Photobucket!

They don't give a shit about which place the pictures post to. They just police their own user's accounts and delete what they deem unacceptable. They've been doing that for about six months, seems like.
 
Lit has a function that I don't mind using at all, the ignore function. Some people have, I've learned nothing useful to say. So I never see them.

We did have a GBer here recently. We didn't ignore him, we laughed at him. And we refuse to engage him with anything other than humour. He left quickly, we were no fun.

I'd use the metaphor of a city for Lit. There are a number of discreet communities in it. Some people travel between these communities, some don't. It's up too the individual.

As it should be.
 
Well...at least for a while maybe still...people's pics were deleted from Lit and the consensus was (as was the response I got from that host) that so long as Lit did not follow the TOS, they would cease a business relationship with Lit. This happened very abruptly...and unexpectedly...at least from what many of the AmPics posters stated!

In terms of paranoia....there is a difference between that and looking at causal elements for problems. My aim is to look for causal elements. I have NOT predicted disaster here...I have simply pointed out some things I see are occurring. Who ever sees paranoia and disaster there...that comes from your own self...not me. I'm simply saying these things could occur if not addressed and that members here might want to be aware of it and take care to back up their stuff...just in case!

No drama...no disaster...no paranoia...just questions and suggestions from me. Peace to those experiencing "emotionality" about it at this point!!!

Some people...ON THE GB....lol...have actually presented some LINKS in the thread about this there. Cool! I put those links on the first post there.
 
rgraham666 said:
Lit has a function that I don't mind using at all, the ignore function. Some people have, I've learned nothing useful to say. So I never see them.

We did have a GBer here recently. We didn't ignore him, we laughed at him. And we refuse to engage him with anything other than humour. He left quickly, we were no fun.

I'd use the metaphor of a city for Lit. There are a number of discreet communities in it. Some people travel between these communities, some don't. It's up too the individual.

As it should be.
Click to expand...

The motivation for these threads was not the GB dynamics. It's really not about that though they will say it is...because that's what some expect everything to be!

It is an honest inquiry about the stated topic...and the GB is actually providing some really good responses amid the other stuff! :D
 
poppy1963 said:
Ohhhh...there we go! Thank you Stella_Omega! I was not aware of the concept of multiple server contracts! All I know is all of a sudden, was it Photobucket?, discontinued it's business with Lit killing all or many of the porn photos posted here that were hosted by members of their website. Now...Lit had been Lit for a long time...but all of a sudden, the rules changed (were enforced) creating a problem for a lot of folks here. Why the change of heart? I don't know...but it DID happen! Now, I've found a new photo host for some of the pics I've posted here (far from XXX but not acceptable by the TOS of my regular photo host either). I've only lost 2 pics...some others here lost 200 from their work on Lit (example..may be exaggerated number there). :)
Click to expand...
I have to say that I'm finding it confusing as to how photos were lost. All you do is upload the file to the server. If they delete the file from their server, how have you "lost" it? Did you delete the original file from your hard drive, thinking you would always have a copy on Photobucket's server? :confused:
 
Tom Collins said:
I have to say that I'm finding it confusing as to how photos were lost. All you do is upload the file to the server. If they delete the file from their server, how have you "lost" it? Did you delete the original file from your hard drive, thinking you would always have a copy on Photobucket's server? :confused:
Click to expand...

The pics were not "lost" per se...they were deleted from Lit as the host stated they would no longer do business with Lit so long as it didn't follow the TOS. Lots of AmPic threads "lost" all the postings of their pictures here and many had done a lovely job of tallying them all on the first post as well. It was a big heal here not so long ago...couple months.

It wasn't Photobucket...it was PhotoShack maybe? I use PhotoBucket and they delete the pics out of my album which deletes them from Lit. (I had two photos there that were deemed in violation of their TOS). Since I personally don't have a "porn pic thread" I am unsure if this problem has been rectified with PhotoShack or if people just found a new host and are slowly rebuilding their threads here.
 
poppy1963 said:
Well...at least for a while maybe still...people's pics were deleted from Lit and the consensus was (as was the response I got from that host) that so long as Lit did not follow the TOS, they would cease a business relationship with Lit. This happened very abruptly...and unexpectedly...at least from what many of the AmPics posters stated!

In terms of paranoia....there is a difference between that and looking at causal elements for problems. My aim is to look for causal elements. I have NOT predicted disaster here...I have simply pointed out some things I see are occurring. Who ever sees paranoia and disaster there...that comes from your own self...not me. I'm simply saying these things could occur if not addressed and that members here might want to be aware of it and take care to back up their stuff...just in case!

No drama...no disaster...no paranoia...just questions and suggestions from me. Peace to those experiencing "emotionality" about it at this point!!!

Some people...ON THE GB....lol...have actually presented some LINKS in the thread about this there. Cool! I put those links on the first post there.
Click to expand...
Photobucket has a business relationship with Lit?

I now that a server manager can disallow contact from another server entirely, perhaps that's what you're talking about. In that case, any images hosted on photobucket would not show up in Lit pages. And given Photobucket's somewhat prudish policies towards sexual content I can imagine they might do that.


As far as paranoia goes, your original enquirey did have a little smidgen of a snippet of an aroma of.. threat... about it. It could be read that way. Taking time to make your meanings extra- clear is always a good thing. Especially in the first post in a new thread :)
 
oggbashan said:
The Author's Hangout is unmoderated.

In theory it could be exactly the same as the General Board. The only reason it isn't is because this community wants the AH to be a reasonable place.

When attacked, we will respond but in a literary way. Treat us as potential friends and that's what we are. Treat as as enemies and that's how some of us will respond.

We are not immune from unpleasantness. We try to minimise it.

Og
Click to expand...

:kiss: :heart: You say it best.
 
Stella_Omega said:
Photobucket has a business relationship with Lit?

I now that a server manager can disallow contact from another server entirely, perhaps that's what you're talking about. In that case, any images hosted on photobucket would not show up in Lit pages. And given Photobucket's somewhat prudish policies towards sexual content I can imagine they might do that.


As far as paranoia goes, your original enquirey did have a little smidgen of a snippet of an aroma of.. threat... about it. It could be read that way. Taking time to make your meanings extra- clear is always a good thing. Especially in the first post in a new thread :)
Click to expand...

Ok...I know for some reason some are held to different standards than others...lol..."a little smidgen of a snippet" is a mountain for some and "a little smidgeon of a snippet" for others...depending on who you are addressing (or who is responding). I hope I've cleared it up here on the AH.

In regards to PhotoShack...the "business relationship" I speak of was...

We have cut off our clients posting pictures hosted by our site to the Literotica website until they (Lit) clean up their act and adhere to the TOS.

Now...Lit had been behaving the same way with the pics from there as it always had from when I came here at least! The decision to "enforce" the TOS changed. I don't know why.
 
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Stella_Omega said:
*shrug* that's what the GB is like, honey. I've been here for about two years, and it's always been that way. That's why I'm here at AH and that's why I didn't answer you on the thread in the GB. I don't have the stomach for it.

You might have noticed the racist speech, but I've noticed insults of every possible variety. The joy is spread across as many fields as it's possible to be. You can't really isolate racist insults and ignore the white-haters. There is misogyny and anti-male sentiment, the homophobics, the breeder-bashers, and some people who detest and deride clowns. And a great deal of it is personal.

I won't be there, but there are many people who do want to be there. Who are you to decide for them?
Click to expand...

Yes. I've made a few posts on the GB, but I've seen a lot of threads there that are purposefully hostile and antagonistic. Ugh. Life's too short and I don't need all that negative energy. So I drop in there from time to time out of curiosity, but can't ever see calling it my home base, like the AH has become.
 
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