Changing Places

This may come across as more suited to the GBLT, but please bear with me.

I have been wondering about people who have always seen themselves as gay and then are faced with falling for someone of the opposite sex.
Having recognised that they are attracted to this person what happens if BDSM or D/s is added into the mix?

I have friends who took years to come out to family and friends as gay, if you are in the situation do you have to come out all over again as bi? And do you then add in to the conversation that this new person is Master/Mistress.

Talking to people I know it seems that going from die hard lesbian to hetro seems mentally complex enough, adding D/s and the power exchanges involved makes my mind spin.

Does anyone know if this has ever been successful, or if it has ended up as an interesting fun experience, but short lived?

I have a friend who is a lesbian and feels strongly attracted to a Dom in the local scene. She is driving herself crazy wondering what, if anything, to do.

She is a bit of a player, enjoys mens company, teasing, flirting yet never actually going through with it, being very open about her attraction to other women.

We have had discussions about whether she is just further experimenting with all things sexual and will simply add this to the list of ticked boxes when she played and discovered a little.

Any insights would help

As much as I'd like to help, I went the other was. Het (wifes and kids) to bi now gay.


Shank

Shankara20 said:

As much as I'd like to help, I went the other was. Het (wifes and kids) to bi now gay.


Shank

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typical of you to mess my mind up even further LOL

shy slave said:

I have been wondering about people who have always seen themselves as gay and then are faced with falling for someone of the opposite sex.
Having recognised that they are attracted to this person what happens if BDSM or D/s is added into the mix?


I have a friend who is a lesbian and feels strongly attracted to a Dom in the local scene. She is driving herself crazy wondering what, if anything, to do.

Any insights would help

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Hmmmn I have been here sitting and thinking this scenario over a while Miss Shy. I think personal sexual identity and the gender your attracted to are two very seperate entities.Naturally the two are interlocked when one actively seeks a partner . Having said that as you bring D/s into the equation as well, that in itself may be the 'key'.

More so if I am correct that the situation you have described your lesbian friend found her 'hetrosexuality' in response to a Dominant, Is it possible that the Dominant has character traits that superficially identify him as a Dom to people less familiar with the depths that D/s can present ? Perhaps your friend is so attracted in that manner that she equates it as spelling her orientation sexually has altered ? Correct you state socially she is comfortable being flirtatous with men before this distinct change in desires. Its not a huge leap from there to infatuation in my opinion. If it is all based around these aspects I suspect she is in for some transient heartbreak as well. Unless of course he is able to accomodate her perceptions of current reality in which case it may be a match made in Heaven.

I wish I could put a spin on this thats less cynical. Closest personal experiences I have had would be a man with huge qualities that befriended me years ago. We were made for each other with one exception he was gay, I am hetrosexual and both of us need to be able to express that with the person we love freely . Still adore Roger and thats reciprocated but we were sane enough to know it would never 'be'. Ohh and he is very much the charmer Dominant. Just not for me.....smiles. We still joke about the karmic joke had on us so perfectly matched yet a vital expression with held from us by our own true natures alone .The other occasion similar yet not is the mother of a casual friend of mine, A woman of deep qualities also, I was sooooooo drawn to her. Though nothing romanticly, I was in a different stage of grief than I am in now and she 'mothered' me. Something I so desperately needed after my own mother dying so suddenly .

Dammit Miss Shy I do go on.......smiles. My 'guess' in a long story cut short she might possibly just be seeking something she believes is 'there' that has less to do with her sexual orientation than she is yet to discover.

I've always been attracted to dominant people. Which explains my affection and respect for Eb, Shadowsdream and Netzach. And meeting Shadows for real was a total thrill for me. (I've also met a male Dom or two from here and that's been outstanding.) One time a former Dom directed me to have sex with another submissive female.

But does that make me a lesbian? No.
Does it make me Bi? No.
Does it make me a submissive? Yes.

I've never had the sort of conflict that you mention, shy. I've always been sexually attracted to men and men only. I respect, admire and have affection for dominant and non-dominant women both, for sure. But I am not sexually attracted to them.

I have many gay and lesbian friends. They've all told me the same story, with some personal variation, which is, they knew from the get go that they were gay. Just like I knew from the start that I was straight.

I just don't see this as being something that you wake up one day and decide you're going to "be" or going to "try out". To me, sexual orientation is definately a hard-wired thing.

Of course, this all excludes bisexual orientation. Which is an entirely different mindset, I suspect.

I can only speak as a straight female submissive who is sexually attracted to straight male Doms.

I fell in love with my best friend a few years ago. People (who had no idea we had a brief affair) used to say we should get married... after a few weeks we decided we loved each other too much, and weren't nearly lesbian (or bi-sexual) enough, to bother with the messiness of being Lovers. So we went back to being soul mates, and best friends- pretty seamlessly, actually.

I just Love who I Love and try not to worry about labels and expecctations...

I'm wondering then, why do we have a glbt or even a bdsm forum?

A Desert Rose said:

I'm wondering then, why do we have a glbt or even a bdsm forum?

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Labels

I like them, helps me figure out if I am opening a tin of peas or dog food for supper

Input

My very handsome and ever so masculine, 21 year old son (he looks like the actor from the "Transporter" films) announced several years ago that he was gay.. initially it was bi-. This announcement really came as no surprise to me.
(Moms just seem to sense these things.) Of course I would have preferred that he be hetero, only as far as not having to go through alot of the BS and negativity that many gays experience.
"Gay" is who he is and of course it's his life and he has the strength of character to be what he chooses to be. He has plenty of female "friends" but doesn't have that deep emotional/sexual attraction for them other than their being good friends. He has had one serious relationship with another young man thus far.
I don't think he has come to any decision with his being either submissive or Dominant in terms of his/our lifestyles, that is if its at all important. He's just a very cool guy who I love and respect immensely.
I like to think of this as a growing phase...chuckles...and he's only exploring his sexuality. That's wishful thinking on my part, but somewhere in the back of my mind I wonder "what if" he should meet that special Dominant female who may just change all of this.

Thanks for sharing this Hotblooded.
Please do not think my post was a condemnation of anyone who is gay, bi or hetro.

How wonderful for you that you have a son who feels able to be honest and open with about who he is.
You must have a lovely relationship with him.

It is obvious from your post that you are very proud of him and his sexuality is secondary to that.

(Sort of) Bi Male perspective, here.

It took a lot of angsting over the issue, before I realized I wasn't (sexually) exclusively straight. Took some more angsting to realize I wasn't (emotionally) gay. Wasn't exclusively anything.

Most of my friends are absolutely straight. I know such a thing exists. I've become friends with several people who are absolutely gay. I know such a thing exists. At both ends of the spectrum, there's some basic self-understanding that members of a specific gender are the object of affection. Can't say I know what that's like. Physically, there are aspects of each that appeal to me, for different reasons. Emotionally, I am drawn to the feminine, while being somewhat feminine, myself.

(Quit rambling, T, and make your point already...)

What I'm saying is, based on the information you've given us, your friend might be in one of three states:

1) Angsty, moving from one end towards the middle.

2) Having encountered that mythical one, specific, someone, who makes her usual orientation... flexible.

3) Trying to make something fit for some other, unknown reason.

Based on the tidbits you threw out, it's looking like either 1 or 2; 3 is just the catchall for, "oops! Armchair Psychologist fumbles again!" I can't nail it down any further than that, since she has flirted and teased with men before, but isn't shy about her self-proclaimed orientation. It's giving her fits, and she did flirt with men, so I'm ever so slightly leaning towards 1; I remember some of the feces I've put myself through, before I decided to say, "fuck it."

Ohhhh shy... hugs her, your post was sincere and gently stated. I on the other hand, often seem that I come out with guns blazing...chuckles.

First, I believe that sexuality is fluid. There is a thread currently on GLBT Chatter about this - a longtime lesbian who is confused by her attraction to a straight man. (No BDSM in that thread though.) My advice for her was to do what feels right. Just because someone comes out as gay doesn't mean they will be gay their entire life. Susie Bright, the feminist author, is an excellent example of this. She was a very out lesbian for many years, and now she is married to a man. This doesn't negate the years she spent as a lesbian, it doesn't mean she was "secretly bisexual" all that time. She was a lesbian, and now she has changed, and she is straight. (Or bisexual, I don't know how she identifies.) There is nothing wrong with changing one's sexual orientation - the part that makes it difficult is reconciling one's personal identity with one's current attraction. (That is, if you've been out as a lesbian, it can mentally be difficult to get over the hurdle of admitting you're attracted to a man.)

As for adding BDSM to the mix...my first comment is that BDSM relationships need not be sexual. An excellent example from the Master/slave community is the relationship between Master Jim and slave marsha - he is a gay leatherman, and she is a leatherdyke. Their relationship is not sexual: it is based on service and devotion to each other. That said, if there is a sexual attraction, that's okay too. In fact, I could see the mental hurdle being lowered considerably in that situation...the submissive could see the orientation change as part of the rules for being in that relationship, as something mandated by the dominant, perhaps even not their own "fault" for changing orientation, etc.

Really, I think everything is fluid. There is no "true" dominant, "true" submissive, "true" lesbian, "true" bisexual, etc. There is only what we are at this moment, which itself is the sum of what life has led us to be right here and now.

Etoile said:

First, I believe that sexuality is fluid. There is a thread currently on GLBT Chatter about this - a longtime lesbian who is confused by her attraction to a straight man.

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Considering that I so obviously lack knowledge about this, I will have to read this thread. I had no idea that some gay and lesbian folks changed their sexual orientation. Having had a gay relative all my life and several gay and lesbian friends who all love the life their in, this has never ocurred to me as even possible.

Really, I think everything is fluid. There is no "true" dominant, "true" submissive, "true" lesbian, "true" bisexual, etc. There is only what we are at this moment, which itself is the sum of what life has led us to be right here and now.

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I just think the only "true" you have to be is true to yourself. I see way too many people who aren't that. Don't you, Etoile?

A Desert Rose said:

Considering that I so obviously lack knowledge about this, I will have to read this thread. I had no idea that some gay and lesbian folks changed their sexual orientation. Having had a gay relative all my life and several gay and lesbian friends who all love the life their in, this has never ocurred to me as even possible.

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I would say the numbers on this are pretty small. Interestingly, in addition to people like Susie Bright who change voluntarily, there are also organizations that try to convince gays and lesbians to change. One major example is PFOX (Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays), which says it's a sin to be gay and urges gays and lesbians to leave that awful lifestyle behind. Love Won Out is a similar group. Some people genuinely don't want to be gay - they might feel it conflicts with their religious beliefs - but I think most of the time it's family members who contact these groups to try to change their gay or lesbian relatives. Again, though, there are people who do it because they want to...they love someone, and want to be with them, so they change their self-identification as a result.

A Desert Rose said:

I just think the only "true" you have to be is true to yourself. I see way too many people who aren't that. Don't you, Etoile?

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Yes indeed. That was very well put. It's too bad society has a tendency to look down on those who don't fit within the "norms."

I have to confess that Etoile is one of those people that I will click on a thread just to see what they say and I always enjoy what you say too!

Fury

FurryFury said:

I have to confess that Etoile is one of those people that I will click on a thread just to see what they say and I always enjoy what you say too!

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If my power had not come back on a couple of hours ago, I could have lit up the room with the brightness of the smile this brought to my face. (Although if the power hadn't come back on, I couldn't have read it!) Thank you.

Ditto etoile.

and

You don't fall in love with a genital alignment. You fall in love with a person.
something similar goes for who you want to play with...
(hopefully) it's not:
"oh man they have *enter genital type here*, therefor i want to *Dom/sub for* them"
it's:
"oh man they have *enter character quality here*, therefor i want to *Dom/sub for* them"

Adding D/s though makes it intresting. I for one know that for the longest time i could only imagine a guy being my Dom, but more and more lately i could imagine haivng a Domme.

Etoile said:

If my power had not come back on a couple of hours ago, I could have lit up the room with the brightness of the smile this brought to my face. (Although if the power hadn't come back on, I couldn't have read it!) Thank you.

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My pleasure, my dear!

Fury

Etoile said:

Really, I think everything is fluid. There is no "true" dominant, "true" submissive, "true" lesbian, "true" bisexual, etc. There is only what we are at this moment, which itself is the sum of what life has led us to be right here and now.

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I love this, and wholeheartedly agree.

I also agree that your posts are frequently a very much appreciated breath of fresh air.

smartandsexy said:

I love this, and wholeheartedly agree.

I also agree that your posts are frequently a very much appreciated breath of fresh air.

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chalk up one more vote for fluidity!

A lot of people get curious eventually about stuff. We see bicurious guys all the time who just want to try dick, which doesn't really make them gay, and certainly doesn't mean they're bi in the "I could be with either gender as a partner" sense - eventually I imagine anyone could get stuck on a "what if" loop about whatever sex/gender normally isn't their thing. I don't think it means you're "switching over" anything, you're just poving Kinsey was onto something.

Netzach said:

certainly doesn't mean they're bi in the "I could be with either gender as a partner" sense

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This is the concept that has led to the usage of neologisms like "biamorous" - an old concept, to be sure, but for some reason we never needed a single word for it until recently.

Netzach said:

I don't think it means you're "switching over" anything, you're just poving Kinsey was onto something.

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That's something I thought of mentioning in relation to the ex-gay movement, too. I don't think anybody who has switched (to being gay or from being gay) can circle a date on their calendar as their date of transformation. There's no magic "aha! I'm cured" moment for the ex-gays, and I think most previously-straight people come to realize their same-sex preference over time, too. It's not a magic change, it's something that just happens over time.

A lot of ex-gays, by the way, end up going back to same-sex interactions. Sometimes it's a return to committed, loving relationships, and sometimes it's furtive self-loathing sex at dirty gloryholes. Sometimes it's in between, too. But involuntary "conversions" are often short-lived. Oddly enough, John Paulk - former board member of Exodus International, an ex-gay group - was spotted a few years back in Mr. P's, a DC gay bar.

Etoile said:

A lot of ex-gays, by the way, end up going back to same-sex interactions. Sometimes it's a return to committed, loving relationships, and sometimes it's furtive self-loathing sex at dirty gloryholes. Sometimes it's in between, too. But involuntary "conversions" are often short-lived. Oddly enough, John Paulk - former board member of Exodus International, an ex-gay group - was spotted a few years back in Mr. P's, a DC gay bar.

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This brings up sad memories of a dear friend of mine who following a nervous breakdown, attempted to appease his mother and family by letting the church 'cure' him. He walked away from the gay lifestyle he was a very high profile and loved community member of all his adult life and declared he was indeed cured, did all the things which made his family happy, helped out in the church etc. His mother was so proud she had finally been able to prove her theory that God could cure misguided folk from being gay...unfortunately, he suicided after a little over a year of living this more socially acceptable lifestyle of playing straight. What got me was everyone in his family and his mother's church wanted to believe so bad he had been 'cured' as they had promised him was possible, they chose to turn a blind eye to the fact he still was not interested in any sort of relationship with a female, and that he was no longer the happy, laughing, friendly soul he was noted far and wide for being.

Catalina

Thank you so much for giving me honest answers which come from the heart.

Etoile, Netzach and Ammre you have both helped me to see a better perspective on this, Like FF I often open threads just to see what you have said.

catalina Thank you for sharing a difficult story