"Training" - advice and opinions, please

Hey everybody, there's an introduction story here, and then my questions down below. If you want to skip the story I won't be offended

It's not very often that I start a thread in this section, or even comment, really. But here's my connundrum. (Did I spell that right?)

A while ago, after I started reading the thread on silly Collarme profiles, I went and made my own. Sort of for shits and giggles, but mostly so I could see what everybody was talking about. Even with an extremely hostile profile, I received a LOT of responses right away. Of course, most of them were dumbasses. Specifically the guy who's message to me was "Twenty qualities I expect in a True Submissive." and another guy who said he desired a woman who understood that men and women were *not* created equal. One of the responses I got was from a PYL in Portland who's name I'd seen on Craigslist (another forum I visit quite often, and often read the "miscelaneous romance" section in for more shits and giggles) and so I responded to him "Is this the XXXXXX XXXXXXX I always see on Craigslist?"

He and I got a conversation going through e-mails. He's about twice my age, which is a turn-off for me relationship wise, but he had a lot of intriguing things to say.

The ads I always see him post on Craigslist are for pyls who desire to be trained.

So, anyways, really not taking this very seriously because I've never really heard anything about it in truth, and it seems very cliched to me, I go ahead and fill out his checklist and an application for this training. He says the next step would be going to the doctor and getting everything down there checked up, and meeting him for coffee. This is after a few days of conversation. I politely decline, and say that I feel like meeting for coffee would be moving waaay too fast at that point, and that I'd rather not.

So we continue to chat for the better part of the last month or more. He answers my questions about his training very patiently, and rather in depth. He hooks me up with a few of the girls currently doing the training, via emails and MSN Messenger, and they all seem very nice and they're really enjoying what's going on with him. The training involves sex, but he said he has also trained "domestic slaves" without any sex. That's when I really start to be intrigued.

So I met him for coffee yesterday.

He was real, he was nice, he was very funny, and I was comfortable around him. He told me about the program he uses for training submissives, about when he learned how to be a dominant, about his mentor, about this and about that, and then I got *really* interested.

The next step, he said, would be to get together for a play session, to see if we clicked that way, because if we don't then there's no reason to torture ourselves by trying to do a session a week for the next few months.

I have to stress that I'm not a total moron. I know how to be safe. I've met people from online situations before and been very lucky in choosing very spiffy, neat people, who I am for the most part still in contact with.

So here are my questions for you.

*Have you ever heard of any formal "slave training"?

*Have you ever experienced any?

*What is your opinion of it?

*Do you think it's real?

*Does this sound like a real-deal situation, or a fantasy that's going to end up with a knife in my gut?

*What would you do, if you were me? (by me I mean a pyl with very little real life experience, but somewhat knowledgable about the lifestyle, and very much wanting to be able to live it.)

If youve been put in contact with others that are his. Then speak to them with his permission. Get to ask all the questions you wish of them.
You allready state that you have a good track record for judging characters from 'reading what they type'. What's your gut saying this time?

Then if your happy, go ahead and arrange a meet. There is safe, safer, safest. Place yourself where you are comfortable. So it maybe to go to a bdsm club and play there, or a munch with others around you. It maybe coffee in a public place.

At the end of the day, its 'leap of faith time'. No amount of planning can eleminate that one risk remaining. But it can sure reduce the chances of it being a 'take' rather than 'give' experience.

i wish you well

There are many establishments and people worldwide who offer this training...Shadowsdream is one, we also offer it but on a different basis at this point. It is fine if it is what you want, and it can be a good starting point if you trust the person and want to explore without feeling you are obligated to have a romantic relationship with that person. For me, while training is possible, it can only be provided according to the specifications of the one training you, or sometimes that of the one who sends the sub or the sub themselves....if they then go out into the world seeking a real relationship, as no 2 people are the saem, there is going to be a need for readjustments in the training. As far as trusting the guy, I would say only do something if you feel 100% comfortable and safe. If there is a little voice nagging in your head to be careful, listen to it, don't gag it. Perhaps is might be worthwhile you suggest you bring someone with you to the first few training sessions at least (even if you don't have anyone, and are good at bluffing)....if they are legit and safe, though they may not feel totally happy about it, they should not have any objections where your safety is concerned. One thing I would ask is how much has he discussed with you about the training? What will take place....what you expect...what he expects of you....how you will be trained and why...what are your future expectations...when is the training finished? Play safely.

Catalina

Chicklet said:

Hey everybody, there's an introduction story here, and then my questions down below. If you want to skip the story I won't be offended

It's not very often that I start a thread in this section, or even comment, really. But here's my connundrum. (Did I spell that right?)

A while ago, after I started reading the thread on silly Collarme profiles, I went and made my own. Sort of for shits and giggles, but mostly so I could see what everybody was talking about. Even with an extremely hostile profile, I received a LOT of responses right away. Of course, most of them were dumbasses. Specifically the guy who's message to me was "Twenty qualities I expect in a True Submissive." and another guy who said he desired a woman who understood that men and women were *not* created equal. One of the responses I got was from a PYL in Portland who's name I'd seen on Craigslist (another forum I visit quite often, and often read the "miscelaneous romance" section in for more shits and giggles) and so I responded to him "Is this the XXXXXX XXXXXXX I always see on Craigslist?"

He and I got a conversation going through e-mails. He's about twice my age, which is a turn-off for me relationship wise, but he had a lot of intriguing things to say.

The ads I always see him post on Craigslist are for pyls who desire to be trained.

So, anyways, really not taking this very seriously because I've never really heard anything about it in truth, and it seems very cliched to me, I go ahead and fill out his checklist and an application for this training. He says the next step would be going to the doctor and getting everything down there checked up, and meeting him for coffee. This is after a few days of conversation. I politely decline, and say that I feel like meeting for coffee would be moving waaay too fast at that point, and that I'd rather not.

So we continue to chat for the better part of the last month or more. He answers my questions about his training very patiently, and rather in depth. He hooks me up with a few of the girls currently doing the training, via emails and MSN Messenger, and they all seem very nice and they're really enjoying what's going on with him. The training involves sex, but he said he has also trained "domestic slaves" without any sex. That's when I really start to be intrigued.

So I met him for coffee yesterday.

He was real, he was nice, he was very funny, and I was comfortable around him. He told me about the program he uses for training submissives, about when he learned how to be a dominant, about his mentor, about this and about that, and then I got *really* interested.

The next step, he said, would be to get together for a play session, to see if we clicked that way, because if we don't then there's no reason to torture ourselves by trying to do a session a week for the next few months.

I have to stress that I'm not a total moron. I know how to be safe. I've met people from online situations before and been very lucky in choosing very spiffy, neat people, who I am for the most part still in contact with.

So here are my questions for you.

*Have you ever heard of any formal "slave training"?

*Have you ever experienced any?

*What is your opinion of it?

*Do you think it's real?

*Does this sound like a real-deal situation, or a fantasy that's going to end up with a knife in my gut?

*What would you do, if you were me? (by me I mean a pyl with very little real life experience, but somewhat knowledgable about the lifestyle, and very much wanting to be able to live it.)

Click to expand...

I have been in a similiar situation with someone I talked to for over a year online. We met and then decided we would have one play session to see if we clicked (sound familiar?).

I also talked to people he knew through msn, and they seemed ok.

In my case I was clear I did not want trained by him but wanted some exploration about what some aspects of BDSM were.
I agree with catalina, training has to suit the needs of the person you are being trained for. If you don't have a 'someone' yet, then perhaps a session that allows you to get to know your own submission a little better would be an alternative.

In my case his idea of a training/exploration session was laughable and boring. I got so bored I finally got up and made a cup of tea before sending him home.

Bearing in mind this was someone I had been talking to for a long time. It now seems to me he used the concept of training as a means of getting cheap sex.

Ironically he thought it had been a succesful session. When I then met Andante and told him about my relationship he started texting me and referring to me as 'my slave.' I didn't really uunderstand why.

In your post you say you found him interesting. Please consider what aspects made you interested. If he promised you the world in terms of the best training and it suiting yours and every PYL you come across needs, he is probably lying. I know that sounds harsh but he has only just met you and you are new to discovering what you do/don't want from BDSM and submission.

I also agree with Pandora, what does your instinct say? Whatever anyone says you are the one making that final decision. I also agree that you should ask them lots of questions.
I did ask other people he knew questions, I simply didn't realise they were barking mad and thought he was Gods gift until later.
In terms of whether it will turn nasty, it hasn't for others. which is something to consider in the overall view of things.

Whatever you decide please let us know your decision.

I don't have anything to add except to say that we'd rather you come back without a knife in your gut or back or anywhere else.

The advice you've gotten so far is very good and very clear. But knowing you as I kinda do, I suspect your judgement will be good and your decisions will be the right ones. You've always struck me as a level headed person.

What you describe does sound like an adventure. If you decide to engage in it, I wish you great and safe times.

catalina_francisco said:

One thing I would ask is how much has he discussed with you about the training? What will take place....what you expect...what he expects of you....how you will be trained and why...what are your future expectations...when is the training finished? Play safely.

Catalina

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Okay, this post made me feel a lot better. Thanks Catalina, those're pretty much all the things I was looking to hear about.

He has already requested that I arrange for a safecall person for the first couple of sessions, which made me feel good. I would have done it anyways but it's nice to know he knows what's safe. I think it made him feel slightly better about me that my next comment wasn't "what's a safecall?"

As for your questions: He hasn't discussed a LOT with me about the training, because he says it's mostly supposed to be explored as we go along. Likewise, the girls I spoke with weren't allowed to discuss the actual sessions they'd had - the rule is that we can discuss things we've both experienced, like I could talk to them about meeting him for coffee, or after my first session I could discuss what went on at that session, but not further than I've gone.

Each session, as far as I have been told, basically goes by a standard procedure that his mentor or possibly his mentor's mentor laid out many years ago... they've trained a lot of girls by the same specifics, and have sort of a technique, or something... Basically it'd be a lot of reading at home and then discussion of the reading, then a scene where we'd do what that session required, checking off things that we do from my checklist, and then afterwards we'd discuss what we did and what I thought about it.

What *I* expect is to go through that list of 100+ things, be uncomfortable with some, be extremely turned on by others, and walk away pretty excited. I don't know if that's what you meant but that's what comes to mind He expects me to play by the rules, finish the training once I commit to it since it's costing his time and his money (he has to order a number of special items for me, and a few books that I don't already have and can't afford because I'm dirt poor).

How will I be trained and why? I'm not sure. One of the things I told him is that I have a history of topping from the bottom, especially since my previous partners have been fairly vanilla, so my "submission" was more like asking to be tied to the bed and then taunting until they'd gag me or whatever else I wanted from the scene. He's going to help cure me of that, heh. Other than that, I really don't know, but I'm extremely excited to find out.

My future expectations, or, hopes, are that this would help me get a firmer knowledge of what exactly I like about BDSM. He's going to give me a lot of experiences so I can tell people what kinds of pain I like, for instance, like... I already know I like strapping, but I've never even experienced a riding crop so I can't honestly say whether or not I like them. I've never been whipped, but I've been spanked. I'm going to come out of it being able to say what kind of power exchange I'm looking for, what kinds of specific kinks I'm looking for in a partner, and what I will absolutely not want to do. This man will also, if I want him to, help me find that special one on one PYL to have the kind of relationship I want with.

He said that the length of the training is different for everyone, but it's approximately one session a week for six months. I think, due to my flexible schedule, I could finish earlier, but that's what I'm commiting to if I go into this.

shy slave said:

Bearing in mind this was someone I had been talking to for a long time. It now seems to me he used the concept of training as a means of getting cheap sex.

(snip)

In your post you say you found him interesting. Please consider what aspects made you interested. If he promised you the world in terms of the best training and it suiting yours and every PYL you come across needs, he is probably lying. I know that sounds harsh but he has only just met you and you are new to discovering what you do/don't want from BDSM and submission.

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One of the things I was concerned about was being used for sex. That's why we've been discussing a sex-free deal. I don't want to sleep with this guy... I'm one of those "if you're sleeping with me, I'm going to consider you my boyfriend, so you'd better not be sleeping with other people" type chicks. I can't help it, that's the way I am. He knows it, and is very cheerful about the 'domestic' training which focuses on the discipline instead of the sexuality. And I did ask specifically what he meant by focusing on the discipline. He said it meant more focus on the reading, and studying of the different lifestlyes, and more specific following of the rules set by his program.

I found him interesting because he's funny and has good stories. He seems like a neat guy. He hasn't promised me the world, and that's a very good point. He hasn't actually promised me anything. I think that all the training really is is, as I think I mentioned in my first post, a way to explore the different types of kink so that I can pinpoint what I want and don't want.

My instinct says he's a good guy and that this would be fun. I really appreciate everyone posting here, because it certainly makes me feel better about what really does sound like an erotic cliche

First opinion: You are a cutie if that is you in the av!!!

Second opinion: You seem to believe you have good instincts. You have gotten good advice, so I say be safe and go for it! I always regret more the things I didn't do than the things I did.

Fury

Chicklet said:

He expects me to play by the rules, finish the training once I commit to it since it's costing his time and his money (he has to order a number of special items for me, and a few books that I don't already have and can't afford because I'm dirt poor).

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Chicklet said:

One of the things I was concerned about was being used for sex. That's why we've been discussing a sex-free deal. I don't want to sleep with this guy... I'm one of those "if you're sleeping with me, I'm going to consider you my boyfriend, so you'd better not be sleeping with other people" type chicks. I can't help it, that's the way I am. He knows it, and is very cheerful about the 'domestic' training which focuses on the discipline instead of the sexuality. And I did ask specifically what he meant by focusing on the discipline. He said it meant more focus on the reading, and studying of the different lifestlyes, and more specific following of the rules set by his program.

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Hi, Chicklet.

Please excuse me if I am asking a question for which there is an obvious answer, but I don't understand something.

Specifically, what's in it for him?

Please do not misunderstand me. I agree with Fury - you are adorable. And from what I have "read" of you, you are kind and friendly and a host of other wonderful things. Any guy, in my opinion, would be damn lucky to have you as their friend, mate, pyl, or anything else.

But, in my experience, people do not invest time and money in others without expecting something in return. What is he expecting, and when/how does he expect to receive it?

I hope you do not consider these questions disrespectful. They are certainly not meant to be.

I agree 100% with what Desert Rose said: we'd rather you come back without a knife in your gut or back or anywhere else.

And I am really just trying to help you think about this from all perspectives ahead of time.

Alice

There are a lot of people who enjoy training new subs and Dom/mes, and that in itself is their reward. Also if he is a sadist and is going to get to introduce pain play, he is getting something back, or more to the point giving and taking equally. If they want to ensure more subs don't fall into bad traps, they also have that satisfaction. Some just like to share and pass on their wealth of experience. Interacting with a variety of people also allows for broadening your own experiences and perceptions, and keeping your mind and play fresh.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

There are a lot of people who enjoy training new subs and Dom/mes, and that in itself is their reward. Also if he is a sadist and is going to get to introduce pain play, he is getting something back, or more to the point giving and taking equally. If they want to ensure more subs don't fall into bad traps, they also have that satisfaction. Some just like to share and pass on their wealth of experience. Interacting with a variety of people also allows for broadening your own experiences and perceptions, and keeping your mind and play fresh.

Catalina

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I agree.

Also, I've known some who just liked the "awakening" of a submisive or masochist. I've been told that is quite heady stuff.

Chicklet,

I should have mentioned this before, in case you haven't read many of my posts: I have absolutely no BDSM experience of any kind.

So if Catalina, Caitlynne, and others believe there is a plausible reason for him spending the time and money to train you without expecting cash or sex in return, I have no basis for argument.

My image of what will be happening is that a middle-aged man (who is essentially a stranger) will be alone with an adorable young woman, getting himself (and her) worked up in a "play session".... and then stopping before sexual activity begins. That sounds like extraordinary self control to me.

But perhaps - and there is absolutely no sarcasm in this statement - perhaps the problem is that I just don't understand the mind of a sadist/mentor, or what would be going on in such a session.

On any other thread, I would be shutting up right now. But this is important. We are talking about your mental and physical safety here. I am not trying to be judgmental, but simply to help you think carefully about all the possibilities.

Even if he is not the type of person who would harm or rape you, the possiblity exists that he would pressure you into abandoning your "if you're sleeping with me, I'm going to consider you my boyfriend, so you'd better not be sleeping with other people" philosophy. It might be worth contemplating this possibility ahead of time.

Chicklet said:

He hooks me up with a few of the girls currently doing the training, via emails and MSN Messenger, and they all seem very nice and they're really enjoying what's going on with him. The training involves sex, but he said he has also trained "domestic slaves" without any sex. That's when I really start to be intrigued.

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I have another question for you.

Have you spoken to any of these girls on the phone, or met them in person? (Preferably, the ones who were trained with no sex?)

A while ago, in a discussion of alts, Shy Slave wrote an hilarious description of herself as a 50 year old man who liked to dress up in a young girl's clothes. It was very amusing.... but it also made me think.

Call me overprotective or paranoid or just a mother. But purely electronic "references" don't give me much comfort here.

Alice

I have spent the last 6 years online and have met dozens of people in real life, albeit, in all that time, only 2 of those individuals were more then casual meetings, ie: coffee, meal, etc. and those two people that were sexual encounters, was after many months of getting to know them. I have no problem with meeting people from the internet, but I do believe in being careful and absolutely ensuring your own safety every way you possibly can.

You say......

"So we continue to chat for the better part of the last month or more. He answers my questions about his training very patiently, and rather in depth. He hooks me up with a few of the girls currently doing the training, via emails and MSN Messenger, and they all seem very nice and they're really enjoying what's going on with him. The training involves sex, but he said he has also trained "domestic slaves" without any sex. That's when I really start to be intrigued."


"As for your questions: He hasn't discussed a LOT with me about the training, because he says it's mostly supposed to be explored as we go along. Likewise, the girls I spoke with weren't allowed to discuss the actual sessions they'd had - the rule is that we can discuss things we've both experienced, like I could talk to them about meeting him for coffee, or after my first session I could discuss what went on at that session, but not further than I've gone."

This raises a red flag for Me, particularly after you said.....

"Each session, as far as I have been told, basically goes by a standard procedure that his mentor or possibly his mentor's mentor laid out many years ago... they've trained a lot of girls by the same specifics, and have sort of a technique, or something... "

I don't understand why he feels he needs to be so secretive regarding the training or what the other ladies have experienced. I can understand them perhaps not wanting to give intimate details to a relative stranger but I would think that he would welcome them bragging on about what they have been through as they are so pleased with their training with him.

I know when I train or Mentor someone it is a very individaul thing, I have My own style, but it's about the individual. I can also understand him not wanting you to know EVERYTHING but at the same time, to not be able to talk about any of it, seems extreme to Me. I would assume if he felt you were a spy just trying to gain knowledge of his "methods" that it would still be at risk after you have had sessions with him.

Another point that was made earlier in the thread was if you had spoken to any of these ladies rather then trusting MSN or some other form of online chat. I may be a bit cynical but in all the years I have spent online, I have seen some pretty amazing magician's tricks, in order to lure people into believing what they want for them to. You can have a dozen different accounts in MSN, all with different names if you want to. All that is required is keep your story straight for each one. So I would try to actually speak one on one with a few of those ladies.

Safe call is manditory, bringing a friend with you, preferably a line backer type, is advisable, but most of all, you need to be sure you have verified information on this man before you take that first step into real life. Things like home and work telephone numbers, home address, full name are imperative.

People may feel that I am alarmist, going a bit over board with this, but having had one dear friend die through a real life encounter type situation, I have good reason to be. It's not like you have spent months falling in love with this man, getting to know him intimately, this is basically a business proposition with intimate contact involved and you will literally be at his mercy. Each of us have the responsibility of looking after ourselves in any way we can. If he has nothing to hide, there is no reason all these things can't be explained in detail so that you then can verify what he has told you.

I can understand you feeling a bit excited at the proposition, curious to be sure, titilated and eager to experiment, but I have one other thing that you should keep in mind. This is training, learning as a "domestic" slave, non sexual. While learning is supposed to be fun, a slave's life is not an easy one at times, nor is the training meant to be a picnic, be sure he outlines EXACTLY what the training is and for what. It is important you know what you are signing up for before you dip that first toe in the water.

I'm going to tackle those last two posts individually, because they're both fantastic and very important to my thought process. I wouldn't have posted questions on here if I was 100% sure that I wanted to go through with the training.

Alice, darling, I think I've read every post you've written on Literotica I'm quite a lurker.

alice_underneath said:

My image of what will be happening is that a middle-aged man (who is essentially a stranger) will be alone with an adorable young woman, getting himself (and her) worked up in a "play session".... and then stopping before sexual activity begins. That sounds like extraordinary self control to me.

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I'm concerned about this, too. I'm thinking, if I decide I want to go along with this, which I'm leaning towards, I'd like to have a few more meetings with him. I've had a number of online-->real life encounters and always backed away from the ones I wasn't positive about... I consider myself a reasonable judge of character... But I also have a habit of reading tons of true crime novels and I know most of the girls serial killers go after don't consider themselves terrible judges of character, either.

I really don't have a good argument or response for this comment, except to say "Thank you for saying it, it needed to be said."

alice_underneath said:

Have you spoken to any of these girls on the phone, or met them in person? (Preferably, the ones who were trained with no sex?)

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No, I haven't. And yes, I did consider that they all might be him. And the fact that two or more of them are online at the same time doesn't mean much. Some of them have collarme.com profiles with pictures, some don't.

I always believed "If something is too good to be true, then it probably is." But maybe this time it's okay. Maybe.

Iagree with the thought that being secretive about what takes place with other submissives sounds a bit noteworthy for caution. Though I can think of reasons a person might adopt this policy for good reason, there is also the possibility the reason is not good. Another caution is my thought of taking someone with you (who won't be taking any drink or food from him) for the first few sessions still stands. A safe call is fine up until you are in no position to use it such as you are tied up nice and secure. I would definately not be going for the bondage from the first session as apart from the safety aspects, you might also find it is not a walk in the park if you have hidden triggers concerning being immobilized.

It is possible to train someone without sexual interaction, (unless you are being trained in sexual techniques), because D/s is not necessarily accompanied by sexual intercourse of any kind, though for many in a relationship it is a valid and enjoyable part of the total picture. Just be careful, think twice and maybe more, and ask why you could not get this training through someone who does not claim to train masses of young women..and if you do undergo training, and it is safe, and you find you enjoy it and want the D/s to continue in a more constant way in your life, what then about your present relationship...and how does your current partner feel about this training idea?

Catalina

Lady Kouka said:

I don't understand why he feels he needs to be so secretive regarding the training or what the other ladies have experienced.

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I don't either. If I go through with this, maybe I'll understand and be able to report reasoning back to you.

Lady Kouka said:

Safe call is manditory, bringing a friend with you, preferably a line backer type, is advisable, but most of all, you need to be sure you have verified information on this man before you take that first step into real life. Things like home and work telephone numbers, home address, full name are imperative.

Click to expand...

Safe call: Yes, will do. Bringing a friend with me... I don't really know who I'd ask, but as more people mention it, yes I do think I'm going to try to find someone.

I have his home phone number, his cell phone number (he answers both so I believe they're his) his full name, and will have his address when/if I finally go to meet with him. I plan to give those out to more than one person to make sure they can go stab him in the balls if I disapear.

Lady Kouka said:

I can understand you feeling a bit excited at the proposition, curious to be sure, titilated and eager to experiment, but I have one other thing that you should keep in mind. This is training, learning as a "domestic" slave, non sexual. While learning is supposed to be fun, a slave's life is not an easy one at times, nor is the training meant to be a picnic, be sure he outlines EXACTLY what the training is and for what. It is important you know what you are signing up for before you dip that first toe in the water.

Click to expand...

I was tempted to agree to the whole thing at that first meeting, but I like to stomp down on my excited feelings and actually give myself time to think, and post questions like this on the board so I can get others opinions.

The next step, if I choose to go on, is a non training play session to make sure we're in sync... It'll let me figure out if I could stand *being* trained by him. And after that, if we do go on, we'll have a contract which *will* outline everything that we're going to be doing.

I hope that answers some of your questions. Thank you for responding to my inquiry.

catalina_francisco said:

Another caution is my thought of taking someone with you (who won't be taking any drink or food from him) for the first few sessions still stands. A safe call is fine up until you are in no position to use it such as you are tied up nice and secure. I would definately not be going for the bondage from the first session as apart from the safety aspects, you might also find it is not a walk in the park if you have hidden triggers concerning being immobilized.

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As I mentioned in the post that I was writing while you posted I think I *will* be trying to find someone to go along with me, thanks to your advice. Also, very good point on the bondage during the first session. Although bondage is a MAJOR turn-on for me, your comment is extremely useful and I'm going to take that advice. I've been bound for many hours on end and also bound so tightly I couldn't move in previous experiences, so I don't think that there are any triggers, but the other reasons are good enough to count it out for the first time.

catalina_francisco said:

..and if you do undergo training, and it is safe, and you find you enjoy it and want the D/s to continue in a more constant way in your life, what then about your present relationship...and how does your current partner feel about this training idea?

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The current partner is complicated. You've probably read my anguished posts in the cafe about him. I'm in love with him = ( and he only likes me as a friend. He's been up front since the first that he wasn't interested in a relationship, just sort of... a sex toy. heh. Six months later he hasn't changed, and nearly every conversation I have with him leaves my heart aching. The sex is fantastic. He gave me a lot of first experiences: anal, strapping, he's the first person I've been with who truly desired dominating me, which is fantastic.

My relationship, whatever you want to call it, with him, is on its way to an end. If it ended, I'd mourn the loss for a couple weeks, eat lots of ice cream, gain five pounds, lose ten pounds, and then get on with my life. As it is I've been crying myself to sleep over it pretty often.

I like the sex, and I'd love to hold out for the possibility that some day he'd like me more than a friend... but he won't. I'm going to tell him about the training when he comes down at the end of this week, and we'll see if he still wants to see me. Whether he does or not is not going to sway my decision, because I'm *going* to lose him eventually. But if this is the opportunity it sounds like, for real, and I miss it for another month of emotional anguish, I'll hate myself for the rest of my life.

"The next step, if I choose to go on, is a non training play session to make sure we're in sync... It'll let me figure out if I could stand *being* trained by him. And after that, if we do go on, we'll have a contract which *will* outline everything that we're going to be doing."

"Also, very good point on the bondage during the first session. Although bondage is a MAJOR turn-on for me, your comment is extremely useful and I'm going to take that advice. I've been bound for many hours on end and also bound so tightly I couldn't move in previous experiences, so I don't think that there are any triggers, but the other reasons are good enough to count it out for the first time."

"But if this is the opportunity it sounds like, for real, and I miss it for another month of emotional anguish, I'll hate myself for the rest of my life."

Perhaps I'm confused. From your various earlier posts, I thought this was about being trained as a domestic slave. From the above quotes however, I'm getting the impression either you are confused about what that is, or he is.

By your own admission, you are very experienced with various forms of bondage, so training in that area, even if it actually had something to do with being a domestic slave, would be unnecessary. You are starting to sound like you are looking for a relationship with this man rather then being trained as a domestic slave.

Perhaps it's the terminlogy that is confusing Me. A slave is a submissive that has no descernable limits, she/he hands that over to their Master/Mistress without question. The word domestic implies household, ie: serving, learning how to take orders without question, how to drop into various poses on command, learning to entertain even, dancing comes to mind, etc. Not sure why you would believe that erotic play would be involved since it's supposed to be non-sexual and you derive sexual pleasure from it.

If all this "training" is just another term for "play" partner with no attachments, that's one thing. You might learn a few different aspects of BDSM fetishes from him, then once one of you gets bored, then on to the next. If in fact you want to learn how to be a better slave, if that is what you are, not all submissives are able to be treated and live as a slave, then be sure he is offering more then erotic tease sessions.

Chicklet said:

The current partner is complicated. You've probably read my anguished posts in the cafe about him. I'm in love with him = ( and he only likes me as a friend. He's been up front since the first that he wasn't interested in a relationship, just sort of... a sex toy. heh. Six months later he hasn't changed, and nearly every conversation I have with him leaves my heart aching. The sex is fantastic. He gave me a lot of first experiences: anal, strapping, he's the first person I've been with who truly desired dominating me, which is fantastic.

My relationship, whatever you want to call it, with him, is on its way to an end. If it ended, I'd mourn the loss for a couple weeks, eat lots of ice cream, gain five pounds, lose ten pounds, and then get on with my life. As it is I've been crying myself to sleep over it pretty often.

I like the sex, and I'd love to hold out for the possibility that some day he'd like me more than a friend... but he won't.

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Please forgive me, Chicklet, for what will surely sound like a presumptuous and obnoxious post.

I am going to translate your comments in the quote above into six words: I am emotionally vulnerable right now.

In my opinion, any time when you are emotionally vulnerable is a really bad time to make critical, potentially life-altering decisions unless it is absolutely necessary.

You are deciding whether or not to meet up with a stranger and hand over control of your body and - to a certain extent - your mind. What is at risk here?

1) Your physical safety

2) Your mental health

3) Your heart

Perhaps I am once again clueless as to what happens in BDSM sessions.... but it seems highly possible to me that "training" might lead to feelings of emotional attachment on the part of the sub. There is a danger that she will give her heart along with her obedience.

Of course, I am just guessing here, and I hope that someone who actually is a sub will comment on whether or not my guess is on the mark.

But the bottom line is this. Even if this guy is not a serial killer or a rapist, there is still another risk involved. You might just end up trading one guy who isn't "interested in a relationship, just sort of... a sex toy" for another.

Chicklet said:

But if this is the opportunity it sounds like, for real, and I miss it for another month of emotional anguish, I'll hate myself for the rest of my life.

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If this potential trainer is a benevolent and responsible guy, for real, then he will understand your need to get your head together before beginning training. He'll be willing to wait until your head is in the right place for it. In fact, if he is genuinely mature and responsible, he will insist on it.

Chicklet said:

by me I mean a pyl with very little real life experience, but somewhat knowledgable about the lifestyle, and very much wanting to be able to live it.

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I urge you, Chicklet, to think about what you really want. What I am "hearing", from various comments on this thread, is that what you really seek is a meaningful, monogamous relationship with a PYL.

Among the other questions that you are asking yourself right now, consider these.

Will this "training" bring you closer to your real goal? If not, why are you entering into this training? What's in it for you?

Titillation? The acquisition of specific skills? A distraction from current heartache?

And whatever you can realistically expect from the training, is it worth the risk?

Alice

Lady Kouka said:

Perhaps I'm confused. From your various earlier posts, I thought this was about being trained as a domestic slave. From the above quotes however, I'm getting the impression either you are confused about what that is, or he is.

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Honestly, the term "domestic slave" is his title, as opposed to mine. I've done a lot of reading on the domestic slave you're describing, and while this WOULD include that, it does also include a good deal of discipline, and bondage, which I enjoy. We're going to be exploring my pain threshold, for instance, find out which kinds I like best, and what's too far (although even though it wasn't on the checklist I specifically wrote knife-play as a hard limit, I will *not* do it. It just freaks me out.)

Lady Kouka said:

By your own admission, you are very experienced with various forms of bondage, so training in that area, even if it actually had something to do with being a domestic slave, would be unnecessary. You are starting to sound like you are looking for a relationship with this man rather then being trained as a domestic slave.

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The kinds of bondage I am familiar with are simple rope games that couples play, without any serious thought put into it. I always try to get more out of a partner, but they're not always enthusiastic about it. I am definitely not looking for a relationship with this man.

Lady Kouka said:

Perhaps it's the terminlogy that is confusing Me. A slave is a submissive that has no descernable limits, she/he hands that over to their Master/Mistress without question.

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That's very, very possible. Especially doing this via the forums it's very easy to be throwing the same terms back and forth and have totally different definitions in our minds. I want to stress that I'm not meaning to sound argumentative or belligerant in any of my responses, in case I am, and I'm certainly not taking your comments with any hostility. This is why we have all those discussion threads about what words mean to us, right? 'cause we wouldn't need the threads if we all instantly knew what words meant

Thank you for putting thought into this, Lady Kouka. It means a lot to me.

alice_underneath said:

Please forgive me, Chicklet, for what will surely sound like a presumptuous and obnoxious post.

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pfft, no such thing.

alice_underneath said:

Perhaps I am once again clueless as to what happens in BDSM sessions.... but it seems highly possible to me that "training" might lead to feelings of emotional attachment on the part of the sub. There is a danger that she will give her heart along with her obedience.

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I, too, feel pretty clueless about what happens. That's why I posted here. And I totally agree with the second part of your statement, and I do fear that it might happen. I don't believe it will, though, and who's to say that my fears will always come to pass?

alice_underneath said:

If this potential trainer is a benevolent and responsible guy, for real, then he will understand your need to get your head together before beginning training. He'll be willing to wait until your head is in the right place for it. In fact, if he is genuinely mature and responsible, he will insist on it.

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I agree, and want to stress that by no means am I planning to start this right away. If I was one of those "jump in head first" type of girls, I probably would have already. I want to make sure I'm not in a weird emotional place. Your comments make perfect sense, and I've given that subject thought already. The guy does know, and does understand.

alice_underneath said:

Will this "training" bring you closer to your real goal? If not, why are you entering into this training? What's in it for you?

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I honestly think that it *will* bring me closer to the goal. My long-term goals are: to find a long term monogomous PYL with the same kinks as me. I believe that this training will help me by teaching me through the assignments more about the different aspects of BDSM, and help me narrow down my interests from "BDSM" to "heavy bondage" "medium pain" "old-guard" etc. Make it more specific, so that I can more easily find someone right for me. Would suck to lose my heart to a guy and find out that his fantasies involve daddy/daughter play, when that kind of play disgusts me.

Chicklet said:

I honestly think that it *will* bring me closer to the goal. My long-term goals are: to find a long term monogomous PYL with the same kinks as me. I believe that this training will help me by teaching me through the assignments more about the different aspects of BDSM, and help me narrow down my interests from "BDSM" to "heavy bondage" "medium pain" "old-guard" etc. Make it more specific, so that I can more easily find someone right for me. Would suck to lose my heart to a guy like my last boyfriend and find out that his fantasies involve daddy/daughter play, when that kind of play disgusts me.

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*hugs*

I hope you find that PYL, Chicklet. Somehow.... I have a feeling that you will.

In the meantime, regarding this training, I'll try not to worry about you. I can't really promise.... but I'll try.

Alice

Yeah, it would suck to fall in love with someone like me...
Since you insist on continuing to post about me with specific details, knowing that several of my friends read this site, perhaps I should be petty and post details of your life, which you do not wish shared here? However, a friend wouldn't do that to another friend, and we're supposed to be friends. So be a friend and share your own life. Not mine.

I appologize for posting it here in the forum, but I already asked you in a PM, which you seem to have ignored.

...and we wonder why the squirrel doesn't post anymore...(well probably no one remembers me anyway)

*prepares to be flamed*

Anorexic Squirrel said:

Yeah, it would suck to fall in love with someone like me...
..... So be a friend and share your own life. Not mine....

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Until you posted here, I had no clue who Chicklet was refering to. And actually, I still don't... so I gotta ask:

#1 - Are you the dom who's offering the training?
OR
#2 - Are you the fellow she's been pining over who has been honest and up front with her about not wanting a committed relationship, beyond friendship, but she appearantly had unrealistic expectations about changing?

In either case, she hasn't given away anything about you that was personally identifiable to anyone who doesn't know _both_ of you, and I didn't see anything particularly negative about what she wrote. I thought it was very clear in what Chicklet wrote that she felt it was her expectations and desire for something more that were the problem, not the fact that you wouldn't change for her.

Sometimes things don't work out, for whatever reason. Doesn't mean someone was wrong or bad or selfish or deceitful, just means it didn't go the way things were hoped for.

In either case, friend Squirrel, safe journeys, wherever they may take you.

The word 'training' is thrown around in BDSM circles quite a bit, and hardly any of it is anything I'd think of as training. A good first step is to make sure you have a clear grasp, and clear agreement, on what that word means for you. A lot of what you mention in this thread seems to be better described as 'exploration'. Nothing wrong with that, but the dynamic is quite a bit different than what I would think of as training. Training is about creating and reinforcing patterns of behavior, perception, emotional response, etc. It is certainly a kind of exploration, since this involves a deep exploration of the subject's psyche, but it also involves purposeful, directed change.
Many people are interested in exploring the kinds of 'tools' that are used in training without actually wanting to be trained. I would agree with Alice that real training is a deep emotional experience, tending strongly toward creating attachment. It would seem from your posts here that you already have some issues of unreciprocated attachment- training is likely to exacerbate them. While ultimately this may lead you somewhere you want to go- it also may not. I would think you would want to have a great deal of confidence in the person doing the training before going down this road.
Oh, and I do have some RT experience with this, from the top side. Not a vast amount, but enough to be very cautious myself about such arrangements.